Above 1200 Sq/FT The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me! (Est. 2005)

shopnut · May 23, 2014

tinbender 66 said:
I do truly love your overkill!

Thanks TB! So far, I’ve been successful at keeping the overkill from killing me

.

It’s getting harder and harder, however, to resist the temptation of just taking the most direct route in finishing things up around here. But I always come to the conclusion that I likely wouldn’t be happy with it 5 years down the road, and would probably end up redoing it anyway.

So as painful as it might be now, I’m sticking to the plan and not lowering my standards as I wrap it up. In the long run, I’m sure I will be happier.

JCQuick · May 23, 2014

what "finish" ? surely you jest LOL

shopnut · May 23, 2014

JCQuick said:
what "finish" ? surely you jest LOL

Yeah, that's a crazy thought, isn't it :sad:

. Well, maybe finished with Asylum, Phase 1 anyways.

ODIS · May 24, 2014

tinbender 66 said:
I do truly love your overkill!

I'm with tin bender 66!

Always look forward to each and every post and the details within.

Ody.

Wingnut65 · May 25, 2014

Water swirling around... **** rotating valves... Sounds like this compressor overkill project can only be completely wrapped up with a video! I never thought of a compressor working to be entertainment, but throw in a choke cable to start the timer and we want to watch along with you.

With raising a family and trying to work in the garage, I would probably be on the shortcut path to get a project working and improve on it later...

shopnut · May 27, 2014

Ody – Glad to hear it and thanks for stopping in. More gory details are on the way! (Hopefully no one is on overload yet from my overkill

)

Wingnut65 – With your adorable daughters and loving wife, I’m sure the garage (and projects within) can get pushed pretty far down the priority list at times. But I do believe you have made excellent progress thus far and I look forward to more Salt Life episodes in the future.

A video of an air compressor? Now that’s just crazy!!! (okay, okay, I’ll do it

)

shopnut · May 27, 2014

FINDING MORE PARTS FOR THE AIR COMPRESSOR…

I was walking through Lowe's and found a pretty decent starting point for my air compressor panel - a door push plate. An aluminum solution for 7 bucks, and about the perfect blend of stiffness and ease of machining. Plus if I mess it up, I know where to get more

. The black bezel gauges should look pretty good mounted in it.

It will be mounted above the timer so the centerlines match up with the regulator knob.

I had to disassemble the timer to drill a hole in the on/off lever. The metal was tougher then I thought and it needed the force of the drill press to get through it (maybe the three bits I tried were just dull). All set for the choke push/pull cable.

I realized that the pneumatic shutoff valve actuator and tank pressure gauge were at risk of getting fouled with water or debris since they are upstream of the water separator, so for $8, this slick little unit was installed. Gauge location is just temporary, of course.

It uses a tire valve stem core as its purge valve and I made sure it was at the lowest point. I don't expect much of anything to collect in there due to the extremely low flow out to the control valve, but its nice to know it's there keeping things clean. Rating is 150psi.

I also mounted a junction box on the drain system plate where the 110VAC circuit will be wired.

Getting closer.

Bob Heine · May 27, 2014

Shopnut,

You have done a fantastic job on the compressor and at this point I may be just adding confusion. Since that's my usual state of mind, I throw this out.

In Florida the humidity in the air means we have water in the compressed air system. Water separators and desiccant dryers do their part but only after the air has been cooled. The air coming out of your compressor is up around 300(F) so it holds a lot of water. When you cool it back down to room temperature, lots of that water condenses. DeVilbiss and many of the other air supply component companies make the following or similar recommendation:

First air drop should be at least 25 ft. from the compressor
although 50 ft. is optimum. This allows the compressed air to
cool to room temperature so any condensation can occur
before it gets to the water separator.

Many of us run lengths of pipe up and down or across the wall connected by U's with drains at the low points. I suspect you have run out of wall space for that kind of solution but perhaps an auto air conditioning condenser with a fan could be mounted on that framing just in front of the compressor. It would serve double duty, power venting the hot air from the compressor cabinet at the same time. I think the typical condenser is rated for continuous duty at close to 300 psi so it should work in your air supply system.

If the condenser tubes are significantly smaller than your air lines, it can be plumbed between the compressor pump outlet and tank inlet. This cools the air entering the tank so you either rely on the tank drain or add a separate connection to your drain system.

Not sure if this is overkill or just roadkill (remember, in Florida we're allowed to eat our roadkill -- no permission required).

BlackSheepSpeedShop · May 28, 2014

That's more like it! I was starting to get worried the way you were talking. Lol

shopnut · May 28, 2014

Bob Heine – Thanks. When I was talking to my dad about the compressor a while back, he asked if I was adding a long run of pipe to cool the air like he had in his shop years ago. His loop had to be about 30-40 feet long and it seemed to do pretty good and water never fouled up our paint jobs painting. At the time of the conversation, I hadn’t really planned on doing it, figuring a water separator would be sufficient for my needs. I then was amazed at the amount of water drained out after just one pump-up cycle (a huge difference between WI and FL, no doubt). But now after running it just a short bit, I’m equally amazed at how hot the tank gets, no doubt a result of the pump outlet temps you mention. During continuous use, I would guess the tank will get very hot and the air making its way to the downstream separator will still be very warm, thus reducing its overall effectiveness.

So I really like your idea of cooling off the air before it enters the tank. I tucked this oil cooler away probably 25 years ago and I pulled it out to check its condition. I was designing a cooling system for a vehicle back then, and this was a prototype from Blissfield Mfg that didn't get used.

Despite a healthy 500 psi rating, I'm not real fond of the idea of using it because it's all steel and internal corrosion resulting from running moist air through it will certainly shorten its life. Plus I'm not exact sure how efficient it would be as an air-to-air cooler.

I also have this on hand. While touring their factory, the sales engineer grabbed it off the production line for me as a sample of the aluminum product Blissfield made. With the low pressure barb fittings, I will pass on this one too. I only show it because I was told it was a Corvette oil cooler (power steering I believe) and I know you are a Corv buff so maybe you know what year(s) it was installed on.

Something I would like to try first is simply replacing my short L-pipe from the compressor with a spiraling copper tube coil down to the tank inlet. Ideally, I would use a finned heat exchanger tube, but I think I will start with a 10 foot section from Lowe's for $25 as a trial. Even better would be to install my extra water separator right before it enters the tank to pull a majority of the water out before it wets the tank. I will make sure I have plenty of cooling air moving across the makeshift coil. The good thing is I won't be introducing anymore potential leak point in the system - I already have plenty of those

Thanks for the good suggestions and thanks for getting me thinking more about all this.

BlackSheepSpeedShop – So I guess I’m back on track then, huh? All I need now is some more time to make some real headway

Wingnut65 · May 28, 2014

should I be worried about the water lines and the electrical box?

shopnut · May 28, 2014

No, it's me that should be worrying Wingnut :shocking:

Am I trusting my GFCIs too much on this 110V circuit?

JCQuick · May 28, 2014

when i was in the salor beal compressor biz the put the coolers on the intake side of the cooling fan for the head. In the paint and body biz we used a stand alone unit type unit that was called a "refrigerated" sytem but it never got cold

shopnut · May 29, 2014

JCQuick – Thanks for the info. Coolers on the belt guard utilizing the pulley/fan seems to be a popular way of doing it. I’m a little hesitant to do this on my cheap compressor, however, because it probably relies on ambient air to be cooling the compressor head rather than preheated air :dunno:

In regards to those refrigerated systems... Sounds like they were designed perfectly – not a bit of cooling was going to waste for you to feel.

Bob Heine – Just a follow-up... Here’s a visual on what I might try replacing my pump outlet tube with (disregard the end fittings):

I stumbled on them last night and there appears to be quite a variety of them for the beer homebrew DIY’er. They call them Wort Chillers. Certainly it won’t be as effective as something with cooling fins, but is has to help somewhat.

Bob Heine · May 29, 2014

A wort chiller setup would be perfect. For tire-rotation or filling purposes perfectly dry air might be overkill so an empty bucket with a copper coil would work fine. A bag of ice added to the bucket would turn it into a chiller and give you paint- or sandblast-quality dry air. If you plan to entertain a lot, you could always add a standalone ice-maker to the Asylum...

When we returned from a 2-year assignment in Australia the icemaker in the side-by-side was dead. I had no time to fix it so when I came across this machine for $150 (same price as the repair part) I snatched it up. It only sees occasional use so has been part of our pre-hurricane preparations for 23 years.

For a little more money you can get fancier unit:

http://www.icemakerdirect.com/EdgeS...&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CI6639zD0b4CFZJr7AodWTMAdw

shopnut · May 29, 2014

I can see the look of confusion on my visitors faces now as I walk over to the air compressor to get them a cold iced-down beer. Love it Bob!
:beer:

akdiesel · May 29, 2014

shopnut

Lots of improvements to your new toy. Great work.
I though radiators had copper tubing routed in them with a steel frame / casing and fins.

shopnut · May 29, 2014

akdiesel said:
shopnut

Lots of improvements to your new toy. Great work.
I though radiators had copper tubing routed in them with a steel frame / casing and fins.

Generally, the heat exchanger people stick with copper and/or aluminum for the best heat transfer. But if you go back to the late 80s, you will find Bobcat skidsteers used steel hydraulic oil coolers for durability (not sure what they use now). Bobcat was a sister company of ours at the time, and the engineers there suggested we give the steel versions a try in our product and hooked us up with Blissfield. That proto cooler I have weighs about 35 pounds (its heavy for its size) and I believe it would survive a nuclear blast. I’m willing to bet Bobcat didn’t sell many spares to replace ruptured ones

shopnut · May 29, 2014

EXTERIOR SHOTS OF THE ASYLUM…

I spent most of my last visit at the Asylum doing yard work and maintenance on the tractor. The “weeds” around here (I can’t really call it grass) grow pretty good during our summer rainy season.

The tractor fought me all the way during the service work, however. While removing the blade spindles to replace the strippers, 3 of the 6 screws broke off in the aluminum housing. So a 30 minute job turned into a 3 hour job as I drilled them out and cleaned up the tapped holes. So it goes when working on old power equipment. With all this TLC, hopefully I won't have any trouble with it for the rest of the season.

Here are some shots after the mowing and some brush clearing.

BlackSheepSpeedShop · May 30, 2014

Love the exterior pics! I am confused, are you installing your air compressor or making moonshine? Lol!!!!! Love it!

FBJR · May 30, 2014

Great work on the shop.

As a side note with cooling the air. Why not just run regular tap water through the can? Ground water is normally around 50f and you wouldn't need a fancy setup. Maybe just a switch wired to run with the compressor using a ice making tap size line.

shopnut · May 30, 2014

BlackSheepSpeedShop – Moonshine is the fallback plan if the compressor doesn’t pan out

. It’s funny you mention moonshine because I was searching Google on "moonshine stills" when I stumbled on the brewers wort chillers. I just remembered stills using a coil of copper.

FBJR – Thanks for stopping in and contributing to the thread. Honestly, I’m not sure I will ever make it to an ice or water cooled version for my compressor pump outlet tube, but Bob Heine had a great idea to use it only when needed and living with the extra moisture in the compressed air when not.

My first attempt will be a simple coiled tube suspended between from the pump head to the tank and it will be cooled with a little bit of forced air. The picture I showed earlier was just a pot with the wort chiller in it where the idea came from. Liquid (as you suggest) would do much better, but I will be happy with any temp drop I get at this point. That 50F water coming out of the tap you mention reminds me of my earlier days in WI – we’re lucky if it’s below 70F here in FL. But even 70F would pull some good BTU’s from 300F air with a good exchanger.

I’m running to the store shortly to buy some of that bendable 1/2" copper tubing to play with. We will see how far it goes from there.

shopnut · Jun 3, 2014

MORE WORK ON THE COMPRESSOR CABINET…

I was just about to route all the wiring for the compressor controls when it dawned on me I really need to get the cabinet roughed out a little more first. So I shifted gears and pulled out the miter saw and this is as far as I got.

I cut these special blocks to reach out around the door tracks and support the vertical framing alongside it.

The control panel will mount between these two horizontal boards. Some indicator lights (100V and 220V) came in the mail too, so I think I have all the parts needed to move forward with this assembly .

The yellow cabinet will roll out just like all the others around the shop. This will allow for servicing of equipment behind it as well as easy floor cleaning.

Wingnut65 · Jun 3, 2014

I was hoping to see how you were going to curve the vinyl around the tank.

BTW, The exterior shots show a lot of work to get to that point. There are so many projects visible in just this one shot, from pneumatically controlling the upper windows, infilling the loft and side storage, the parking meter. Wait, scratch that last one...

shopnut · Jun 3, 2014

Wingnut65 said:
I was hoping to see how you were going to curve the vinyl around the tank.

BTW, The exterior shots show a lot of work to get to that point. There are so many projects visible in just this one shot, from pneumatically controlling the upper windows, infilling the loft and side storage, the parking meter. Wait, scratch that last one...

With the ribs vertical, curving that vinyl would have actually been the easy task. But vinyl only goes on surfaces 10 feet and higher in the Asylum. That's the rule and I'm sticking to it!

Too funny about the meters. I guess you don't like the old green fence posts that are currently in there place, eh? That project is kind of low on the list right now, but I'm still looking forward to it.

shopnut · Jun 5, 2014

COOLING THE COMPRESSED AIR COMING OUT OF THE PUMP…

To experiment with a makeshift cooler, I started out looking for a 50’ roll of 3/8” ID (1/2” OD) copper tubing due to the reduced price per foot buying in larger quantities. But the stores were out, so I settled for a 10 and 20 foot section totaling about $60. Just a word of caution – be careful when buying this stuff because sometimes they list it as ID and sometimes OD. Again, finned tubing is what I would prefer, but I haven’t found a direct source for it yet.

I’m still undecided on how I will rig this up, but have narrowed it to two choices for a first attempt.

My calcs show I can squeeze about 14 to 16 feet of tubing in a corkscrew shape between the pump and the tank for heat dissipation, to replace the existing 18 inch L-shaped tube. The effectiveness of this method is still in question, but certainly the downside is any condensed water in the tube will drip directly into the tank and must be removed via the bottom drain.

The other idea is a zig-zag shape running downward between the tank and cabinet wall. If temps dropped enough in this line, I could even add a water separator (or at least a drain valve down at the bottom before the line runs back up to connect to the top of the tank. It would be my first line of defense for the water and the second separator downstream of the tank would hopefully get the rest.

Luckily, the rest of the project really doesn’t rely on what I do with this, so I can keep on truckin’ with the main compressor installation and dabble with the makeshift cooler whenever I want.

akdiesel · Jun 7, 2014

shopnut

The idea looks promising. To bad your shop is a few more feet than needed, but you could pump lake water to a cooling line for your system as well. And maybe even make is some sort of Oky Cooler system (a misting system). That is what we call them for our cooling fin fans in the summer when the temps get to 70, this is slope temps so 70 here feels like 90-100 in Arizona.
Another option to save your tank would be to install a sacrificial smaller tank after your cooler to collect the liquids. It would also act as a JT system to help cool the air and inturn condensing. This of course is when air is in movement, but a small 5 gallon air tank, or less, is easier to replace and manage then the main air tank.

shopnut · Jun 9, 2014

akdiesel - You always have great ideas, my friend. Thanks for chiming in.

I do have an unlimited supply of cooling water in that lake, and I doubt the gators would mind the water temp being raised a bit – heck, they might even think that hot water return pipe is for some type of Jacuzzi I’m installing for them!

But you’re right; it’s about 300 feet down to the lake :sad:

. Misters are not the most efficient in our humid environment, but still could drop the temps significantly compared to a dry forced air system. Still thinking about all this.

That sacrificial tank idea is brilliant! A picture I will be inserting in few days shows there is a perfect spot for a 5 gallon portable tank, but I was planning on it merely for storage purposes for a tank I already have, and not to be an active part of the system. But now you have me thinking (again, darn it!). My portable tank doesn’t have a drain in it, so I would have to find another, preferably made from aluminum that would stand up to all the water I could throw at it.

I made some good headway on the compressor cabinet (finally!) and that’s what I will be reporting on next.

shopnut · Jun 10, 2014

FRAMING FOR THE COMPRESSOR CABINET DOORS…

It was time to make this thing somewhat resemble a cabinet. Before the skin could go on, I needed to finish up any framing around the door openings. A small shelf was also added below the tank for a bit more storage space.

Back when Stanley had a clearance on their cabinet spare parts, I bought 5 sets or doors, figuring they would come in handy for custom cabinets somewhere in this place.

Well, that time has finally come. The upper set will allow access to the compressor pump and motor for oil level checks and routine maintenance. The lower set gives access to the auto drain, air-actuated ball valve, and whatever else I stuff in there.

Here’s a quick peek at what it will look like.

BlackSheepSpeedShop · Jun 12, 2014

Looking great!!!!

shopnut · Jun 12, 2014

BlackSheepSpeedShop said:
Looking great!!!!

Thanks. I wish things were progressing a little faster, but I'm starting to slow down during the hot summer months again.

shopnut · Jun 12, 2014

OUTER SKIN FOR THE COMPRESSOR CABINET…

A few years into this project, Lowe’s had a clearance sale on the tileboard paneling I use on the walls and I think I ended up buying about 30 sheets to stock up. I’m getting closer to having this place finished, but there is still a whole wall that needs to be covered. On last count, I have 12 sheets left. This may seem like a lot, but about 8 of those are already spoken for and I wanted to end up having a few sheets left for future repairs or changes. So from now on, I will be using it sparingly.

For the front face, I cut the panel to the correct outer dimensions and fastened it on. The door opening were then marked on the inside face and the panel was removed to have the openings cut out.

Then some side pieces were added.

Here's a shot looking in at the valves below the tank.

Again, here is another look at where this is headed. The gap on the left side is for the gauge panel.

Behind the lower set of doors will be a great spot to stash my 5 gallon portable tank. I'm sure I'll try stuffing 20 other things in there along with it as time goes on.

shopnut · Jun 16, 2014

THE COMPRESSOR CONTROL PANEL…

I finally had all the parts to start building this panel. It will mount in the left side of the cabinet in the spot shown earlier.

Having the parts on hand makes it easy to lay out the panel. I must have tried 20 different arrangements before settling on this.

And then it was time to start making chips. My hole-saw was so dull I think it did more melting on the way through then actual cutting :sad:

.

The 2" gauges in place. So far, so good.

I trimmed the flanges off the 12-hour timer wall plate, allowing it to lay flat on the aluminum panel.

With all the other parts now in place, it was easier to pick the exact spot for the red indicator lights. The timer knob already has a fresh coat of silver paint to match a bit better and I will snap a new picture of it soon.

The large space on the left side of the panel is reserved for the regulator knob. A semi-circle will be cut in this panel and the other half into a small filler plate that spans the rest of the width. Too bad the plate wouldn't have been about 2" wider - oh well.

BlackSheepSpeedShop · Jun 16, 2014

I love it!!!!!! What I expected.

Pointbock · Jun 17, 2014

How do you keep track of your spare parts/things purchased in anticipation, etc.? I would have bought the extra set(s) of Stanley doors and put them "in a safe spot" only to discover them about 14 yrs later. What's your inventory system?

R1chy · Jun 17, 2014

Pointbock said:
... I would have bought the extra set(s) of Stanley doors and put them "in a safe spot" only to discover them about 14 yrs later. ...

You're presuming it isn't 14 yrs later.

Vernmotor · Jun 17, 2014

Overkill is the word that comes to mind. LOL

Wingnut65 · Jun 19, 2014

shopnut said:
The large space on the left side of the panel is reserved for the regulator knob. A semi-circle will be cut in this panel and the other half into a small filler plate that spans the rest of the width. Too bad the plate wouldn't have been about 2" wider - oh well.

shopnut, Only you would see a 'Large Space' still remaining on this panel...

Vern, not sure if it is 'overkill', or just not leaving any corner of the Asylum looking 'Average' that any sane person could have constructed. It takes a talented engineer to make a normal operation into a highly technical process to do the same thing. Besides, he's having fun!

But we can still hear that Chevelle is still calling out in the distance... Or, is that a Vette I hear>

Vernmotor · Jun 20, 2014

He is car deaf. He can't hear them LOL

rieferman · Jun 21, 2014

I expect nothing less from you shopnut. You never disappoint. Keep up the great work!

Above 1200 Sq/FT The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me! (Est. 2005)

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