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The VISES of Garage Journal

FMC1959

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Hi all,

can anyone ID this vise off the top of their head I spotted in the wild? The bolts in the head make me wonder..... owner can't spot any lettering so it might be a clone.



Steelkilt: wow.

Cheers

Thrumcap

:canada:

O M G



It's for sale.......

:scared::eyecrazy::wtf::willy_nil:yikes:

1938 record no 518

height: 15 inches
width: 13 inches
length: 33 inches
jaws: 9 inches
throat: max 15 inches

......but with jaws that wide...is this the fabled 518 1/2??

Thrumcap
:canada:

Thumbcap, you appear to be living on [Record] hallowed ground, they are popping up everywhere.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2876581&postcount=1
If you look at this link to another GJ member post on Record vises, the 518 on this list is 186 pounds! There may be other models they produced not listed here, but this is the heaviest Record I have ever heard of.

The other pic you have, I think GETRIDAONE is right, on this list if you look at the 110-114 series, the pic has the bolts on the jaw and the "hunchback of ND" type anvil. Best thing is both of these vise are heavy duty lines for Record.

Anyone having these 2 vise would be set for pretty much any task you throw at them....nice finds.
 
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FMC1959

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Prentiss Bulldog #524 with 4" smooth jaws, swivel base:

10770321724_5284649932_b.jpg


10770225105_945cab3961_b.jpg


10770492383_2522838527_b.jpg


Chas. Parker 973 1/2 3.5":

11020000253_7f02ded679_b.jpg

That Reed is amazing. After browsing through this thread i got instantly hooked. Had to go out a get a nice vice to share with the community for my first post!
P1020921.JPG


3-43 is stamped on the slide ( march 1943 i figure) and the Jaws have the same stamping numbers as the body 2297. hopefully a little spit shine and paint then off to my workbench for the 2nd post. I got a line on possibly the 2nd vise for the collection, a Reed 3c in very nice shape. The seller wants $300 big ones and i could not figure out if that was a sucker price or not.

Thanks for getting me Hooked!

Great to see new members with great finds! These are classics, feed them well and before you know it you will have 6-8 inch vises :)
 

EOC_Jason

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You could always just coat in boiled linseed oil... That sure looks nice right now without any paint!

Thanks for all the help... My hands keep going numb from all the grinding (with wire cup) but worth it.

Still trying to find a decent bench buffer to give the handle a nice shine.
Thinking of painting it Incredible Hulk green but I'm boring and will probably go with Red and maybe white or black lettering.
 

jakemac

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Not a big fan of the clamp downs, but Jake, yours is a real beauty. Awesome job, if I came across someone selling that one, I would want to get it!

I don't really care for them much either, but they serve a purpose. I didn't want to put holes in my clean bench to mount a real vise, so I picked up the first one but the clamp wouldn't open wide enough for the bench. So, I had to find another one. (I paid a little more attention when buying the second one)
 

GETRIDAONE

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FMC "I think GETRIDAONE is right" Thanks, Lucky guess on my part.
:rocker: My wife says I'm never right.

Hot Chop, Here is my unpainted Reed, just cleaned and wiped down with light machine oil. Not as flashy as red paint but if your going to use it ?
 

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sashae

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Great to see new members with great finds! These are classics, feed them well and before you know it you will have 6-8 inch vises :)

Truth, there. I'm working on a 4" Fulton #10 vise restoration (my first) and it's bigger than my mounted Parker -- guess I should be seeking out a 4.5" for the bench? :)

15200785461_98880742a1_b.jpg


15017039249_04336e36fc_b.jpg
 

Thrumcap

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Thumbcap, you appear to be living on [Record] hallowed ground, they are popping up everywhere.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2876581&postcount=1
If you look at this link to another GJ member post on Record vises, the 518 on this list is 186 pounds! There may be other models they produced not listed here, but this is the heaviest Record I have ever heard of.

The other pic you have, I think GETRIDAONE is right, on this list if you look at the 110-114 series, the pic has the bolts on the jaw and the "hunchback of ND" type anvil. Best thing is both of these vise are heavy duty lines for Record.

Anyone having these 2 vise would be set for pretty much any task you throw at them....nice finds.

The little guy is local at $20....I can't ID the vertical lines on the front. Maybe an RAE.

The big guy, Weeeellll..... the big one is actually overseas ..:Violent:.. has anyone any experience
with ocean freight?

I think that this model may be even bigger than the 518 spec:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35604059@N03/4936263884/

I quote the source -

" ...but it appears in the 1964 BUCK & HICKMAN Tool Catalogue, priced at 42 pounds and 10 shillings - an astronomical amount back in those days.
It weighs in at 120 lb. and has 6 inch jaws opening out 10 inches.

It was also available in bigger sizes:

No. 517 - 7 inch Jaw, Weight: 190 lb. Price: 60.00
No. 518 1/2 - 8 1/2 inch Jaw, Weight: 265 lb. Price: 85.00

It doesn't appear in the 1953 edition of the aforementioned catalogue, so it could be a model only dating back to the 1950s into the 1960s.

Here's a catalog entry I just found:

http://s583.photobucket.com/user/de...vice manufacturers/Heavychippingvice.png.html

I don't suppose anyone has an earlier version of this catalogue? Chasing info on this monster is elusive.

Cheers,

Thrumcap

:canadian:
 
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Hot Chop shop

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You could always just coat in boiled linseed oil... That sure looks nice right now without any paint!

Do you have any pics of a vise that has been coated with linseed oil? I looked through some threads talking about it but not sure I found a pic of what color if any it tints the bare metal.
Also if you have any pics of "gun blue'ing" a vise (I think that's what it is called) would be interested in that too.
Thanks !

FMC "I think GETRIDAONE is right" Thanks, Lucky guess on my part.

:rocker: My wife says I'm never right.



Hot Chop, Here is my unpainted Reed, just cleaned and wiped down with light machine oil. Not as flashy as red paint but if your going to use it ?

That vise looks great, I like the bare look and notice different oils give it different tints...and when your using it u don't have to worry about scratches etc. But I also like using a body filler type primer that goes on thick to fill in some of the years of abuse so that it looks newish and ready to start my years of abuse.
 

drivesitfar

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Hot Chop: here's a boiled linseed vise that Jason EOC just finished that is now mine and we are both happy how it turned out. it's a bit smaller than your Reed which is hard to believe because it's a Reed 4C and it weighs 190 pounds. yours would look great with this and Jason can add comments when he has time, but i think it was the first one either of us had done this way. I think he said 3 or 4 coats and wait a bit between each application for the oil to dry some before adding another.

good luck
 

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Hot Chop shop

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Hot Chop: here's a boiled linseed vise that Jason EOC just finished that is now mine and we are both happy how it turned out. it's a bit smaller than your Reed which is hard to believe because it's a Reed 4C and it weighs 190 pounds. yours would look great with this and Jason can add comments when he has time, but i think it was the first one either of us had done this way. I think he said 3 or 4 coats and wait a bit between each application for the oil to dry some before adding another.



good luck


That looks great, I thought maybe it might brown the metal more... Is there a write up on it anywhere? Just curious on the drying times between coats cause I thought it gets "tacky" and is the handle and the slide coated or just the spots where u would normally paint it? This thread moves quick so I miss a lot here. Thanks.
 

EOC_Jason

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I just applied several thin coats... except for some of the recessed areas that were not easy to get to and very rough texture (behind the pipe jaws, inside the swivel base) I applied a really thick coat.

It was hot & dry here, I think I was able to apply one coat in the morning, and another late afternoon, just to let it dry good between coats. After final coat I let it dry for a day. You just wipe it down and let it sit for a few hours then give it the touch test to see if it's still tacky or not... The thicker you put on the longer it will take to dry.

It darkens the metal ever so slightly. Kind of like when you wipe something with paste wax.

Yes, I did the handle and slide too.

It forms like a coating which you can scrape off, but at the same time you can touch it up if need be.
 

drivesitfar

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Jason: thanks for explaining the process so i won't have to ask you a million times because i'm happy how it turned out. thanks again for making your and now my Reed 4C the test patient and he is doing fine waiting for me to find a spot to set him up to work.

All: Boiled Linseed oil is sold in a can that way and you won't have to cook it on the family stove like others and I thought at first. Fretters and Jake seem to have used it the most on the forum that have mentioned it, but i'd love to hear more of the pros and cons of it if anybody else has some to add. i think i'm going to use this instead of painting on a lot of my vises.

i might wax the jaws and handles just to have a little different color.
 

jakemac

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If you apply the boiled linseed oil thinly, like an oil wipe, each coat may only take a day to dry. If you apply it thick (like I do) it could take a week or more for it to dry enough to handle. Let it dry well between coats, otherwise you're just making one thick coat that needs to dry. Let the final coat cure for a week or two, then buff it out with a soft clean cloth.

Of course, heat and humidity will affect the outcome. Patience is a virtue when it comes to building up a good finish with linseed oil.

Before you begin - Make sure you're using BOILED linseed oil, not RAW
 

Fretters

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Before you begin - Make sure you're using BOILED linseed oil, not RAW

Unless you're me, of course. :D My application method is to brush the oil on, leave overnight and then wipe the excess off. Gives the raw mix I use just enough time to leave a usable coat, but not long enough for it all to go tacky and be a pain to wipe off the excess.
 

Duker

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If you apply the boiled linseed oil thinly, like an oil wipe, each coat may only take a day to dry. If you apply it thick (like I do) it could take a week or more for it to dry enough to handle. Let it dry well between coats, otherwise you're just making one thick coat that needs to dry. Let the final coat cure for a week or two, then buff it out with a soft clean cloth.

Of course, heat and humidity will affect the outcome. Patience is a virtue when it comes to building up a good finish with linseed oil.

Before you begin - Make sure you're using BOILED linseed oil, not RAW


Patience is the best method but if your pressed for time you can also add just a touch of Japan Drier and it will set up and cure much faster. It is the accelerant used in many tung oil finishes as well.
 

jaker10

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Do you have any pics of a vise that has been coated with linseed oil? I looked through some threads talking about it but not sure I found a pic of what color if any it tints the bare metal.
Also if you have any pics of "gun blue'ing" a vise (I think that's what it is called) would be interested in that too.
Thanks !





Here is some pictures of my Monarch 219 that is done with boiled Linseed oil.
 

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Fretters

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Also if you have any pics of "gun blue'ing" a vise (I think that's what it is called) would be interested in that too.

I'd be surprised if anyone has properly blued or browned a vice. Done correctly, that's quite a time consuming process, unless you use one of the 'bluing in a bottle' type affairs.
 
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drivesitfar

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Fretters: Carla mentioned a blueing she did on some of the Plvmb tools she owns that didn't sound cheap, but it also didn't sound difficult to do. of course what isn't difficult to Carla might take 5 of us to figure out. her post is #382 on the show your Plumb tool thread where she mentions the process.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135342&highlight=plumb

All: there was also some mention about some Japanning(sp?) or something like that which sounded similar to what is done to cure a cast iron pan before using it.

Jaker: nice looking Monarch and wondering if you have re applied any boiled linseed to your vise since i think you applied it originally a few months ago?

Duker: how much of the magic juice (Japan Drier) would you put in the boiled linseed oil to make it work?
 
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Outlawmws

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I'd be surprised if anyone has properly blued or browned a vice. Done correctly, that's quite a time consuming process, unless you use one of the 'bluing in a bottle' type affairs.

Blueing I'd agree with; Browning, heck half the vises we post start out browned to one degree or another, only we call it rust! :evil:
 

Fretters

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DIF:

The stuff Carla used was the 'bluing in a bottle' type affair. It gives a similar appearance, but is a completely different beast to the proper bluing process, which involves acid rusting, neutralising, cleaning, then round and round in circles until the desired result is achieved.

Japanning is the hard, black, enamel like finish you find on some older tools.
 

drivesitfar

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most of guys i buy my farm fresh vises from really know how to brown them up correctly. i have also seen many others who have found some in that condition.

question i have is has anybody tried to use an oil over the top of the browning (rust) without removing it? :D
 

Fretters

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question i have is has anybody tried to use an oil over the top of the browning (rust) without removing it? :D

I know that was meant in jest, :D but it would actually be a fairly decent finish with regards to preventing further rust, provided any loose rust was removed before the oiling.


Edit: Actually, I can answer yes to that question personally too, now I think about it. :D My bin in the shed is an old Shell grease container, in slightly less than perfect condition. Trying to remove any but the loosest of the rust would have led to the demise of some of the original paint, so it only got a quick rub down and then lathered with Linseed.
 
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Duker

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Fretters: Carla mentioned a blueing she did on some of the Plvmb tools she owns that didn't sound cheap, but it also didn't sound difficult to do. of course what isn't difficult to Carla might take 5 of us to figure out. her post is #382 on the show your Plumb tool thread where she mentions the process.



http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135342&highlight=plumb





Duker: how much of the magic juice (Japan Drier) would you put in the boiled linseed oil to make it work?



It doesn't take much as you don't want the finish to dry too fast making it brittle. If the cap size is about the size of a quarter it would be roughly 1 cap full to a quart of finish. Or about 10 milliliters a to a liter of finish. So as you can see it doesn't take much.

I would recommend making a finish story stick which is nothing more than spoonfuls of finish with different amounts of drops of drier. You can then check the ratio to find the best cure time which will take into account your local temperature and humidity levels.
 
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bigcaddy

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Enough of the talk about boiled linseed oil!! It brings back bad memories from when I was a teenager.

I remember getting new wooden ladders at my dad's place and having to treat them with lots of coats of linseed oil in the summer. Talk about stinky, sticky work
 

drivesitfar

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Duker: I thank you for the information on use of the dryer. I'll give it a try if my drying times are taking too long.

BC: Dad didn't let you use the good stuff. He saved the boiled for his anvils and bikes. Many have said regular linseed oil is a sticky mess hence the boiled.
 

bigcaddy

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BC, I'l just bet your dad told you the job built character when you bitched to him about it! :lol:

Yes, character. That's what it built:D. And boiled linseed oil was the only thing that did so. The broom, paintbrush and shovel were also exceptional character building tools. With all that in mind, I would happily do it all over again and not change a thing:beer:
 

bigcaddy

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Duker: I thank you for the information on use of the dryer. I'll give it a try if my drying times are taking too long.

BC: Dad didn't let you use the good stuff. He saved the boiled for his anvils and bikes. Many have said regular linseed oil is a sticky mess hence the boiled.

Oh no, it was the sticky stuff. He did a few anvils with a linseed oil finish but the rest are exactly as they were found with some getting a coat of wax to prevent rust.

He's also done a few items with a brown finish. I remember building a black powder pistol with him for 6th grade show and tell and we did a browned finish instead of a blue.

I've experimented with canned blue and have gotten quite good at it. I know I have a blued 3/4" drive Wright ratchet in my toolbox and have at least one vise that I blued out of boredom.
 

drivesitfar

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BC: we are talking about finishes because not all of us have a Craftsman 5198 to stare at or a Reed 208. by the way is yours going to be Arrest me Red or original blue? or maybe a nice Boiled linseed oil? :bounce:

do you happen to have any pictures of the vise you Blued?

Fretters: yes i was jesting (sort of), but i know some guys that go into their steel storage areas or barns and squirt on a little more oil now and then to keep the browning process to a minimum. nice story about your own little browning project.
 

Carla

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DIF:

The stuff Carla used was the 'bluing in a bottle' type affair. It gives a similar appearance, but is a completely different beast to the proper bluing process, which involves acid rusting, neutralising, cleaning, then round and round in circles until the desired result is achieved.

Yes, as I said, I used the 'bluing in a bottle' material, which isn't bluing at all, actually a variety of black copper plate.

Thats the quickest and easiest way of getting a 'reasonable' finish on steels.

The other common options are the 'Du-Lite' hot caustic process, which involves a tank of caustic soda, with a little bit of some 'additives', the various recipes for which are found in the various books on gun work, and 'Parkerising', another 'hot bath' process, but not so hot or quite so hazardous.

Both of those are industrial processes, with some very real dangers involved, cheap per item if done in quantity production, but not really practical for someone doing just a few parts at any one time.

As a generality 'industrial finish' tools are blacked with a hot caustic process, which is fast, and really cheap per part if done on a medium or high volume production basis.

'Real' or 'traditional ' gun bluing or 'browning', as it was called, is a very different operation......I'd do it where its really needed, but its a lot of work, and one must really feel 'motivated'.

There are a number of traditional recipes for the 'tiger sweat' (or less polite term) acid formula which must be applied, ever so carefully, then the parts put in a 'humidity box' for awhile, then the 'rust' carefully carded off with a very fine wire brush........and this process has to be repeated, ever so carefully, for at least six, maybe a dozen times in all......eventually, the 'real finish' appears.

One must try any new 'batch' of acid-flavoured material on 'dummy' parts (which one hopes are a sufficiently similar steel) first, to know that one's batch of stuff has some 'bite', but not too much, and the temperature/humidity in the coffin has to be kept 'just right' as well.

Winchesters and some other arms firms did this in regular high-volume production for many years, to be sure, but setting up to 'get it right' for just a few parts is seriously tedious. (Even Winchesters eventually abandoned real browning, and went to the Du-Lite (hot caustic) process by the late 1930's)

Thats the kind of work everyone should try once or twice, just for the experience, but, as a practical matter, such work is better sent to specialist firms. Its not a realistically practical finish for such as hand tools or vises, unless one's working time is of very little value, or one really wants to be some sort of 'fanatic'. (for all I know, that may well be how the tool sets originally supplied with the Bugatti cars were done....they do 'look pretty'.)

cheers

Carla
 

flavc3

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well here's my first vise I've ever restored.....well semi-restored. Did the best I could with limited tools. I left the jaws and handles with the natural patina.....kinda like that look to them and man do you ever need a steady hand to paint the letters!! As you can tell, my hand is not that steady.:eek:
 

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Mark in Indiana

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Your vise looks great. For future reference try this method to paint raised lettering. This way doesn't require a steady hand at all and the results are fabulous.

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/blog/?p=272

That was a great read. I'm going to try the paper towel trick on the raised lettering of my larger equipment. The vise lettering that I've done was with chisel tipped paint pens.
 
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