Craftsman : series time frame ?

Tool Pants · Jan 5, 2009

All these codes make my head spin.

I do not remember the stainless Craftsman wrenches, but I may have been too young. I do remember the stainless ratchets when they came out. The sockets had a black plastic ring, but were not stainless. I saw them at the store. I saved my old catalogs and here they are on the cover.

lauver · Jan 5, 2009

Tool Pants said:
All these codes make my head spin.

I do not remember the stainless Craftsman wrenches, but I may have been too young. I do remember the stainless ratchets when they came out. The sockets had a black plastic ring, but were not stainless. I saw them at the store. I saved my old catalogs and here they are on the cover.

Tool Pants,

Nobody can keep up with all the codes; that's why we write them down, make lists, take pictures, and post em.

On the other hand, your memory seems better than most. And you've got lots of examples in your toolbox and back pockets to jog your memory.

BTW--What's the brand, model number, and series code on that stick of butter you use to lube all of your ratchets?

Rusty O'Toole · Jan 8, 2009

Hello all, I'm a newbie here. I found this site and thread while researching some old tools I've inherited.

Regarding the CRAFTSMAN U-circle code, here is a socket I have. It is a 1/2 inch drive, 12 point, 1 inch size socket. The only markings are a 1, the U-circle, and CRAFTSMAN. It has a knurled band around the base. It does not have indentations or a hole for the drive ball. The socket is chromed, and much shinier than it appears in the photo. (I had to play around with the lighting to make the code legible in the pic).

MOPARHOUND! · Jan 8, 2009

lauver said:
Tool Pants,

BTW--What's the brand, model number, and series code on that stick of butter you use to lube all of your ratchets?

Here is mine, from the "ratchet ****" thread:

Click.......click.......click..........yeppers, buttery smooth!!! :drunk:

v8garage · Jan 8, 2009

Rusty O'Toole said:
Hello all, I'm a newbie here. I found this site and thread while researching some old tools I've inherited.

Regarding the CRAFTSMAN U-circle code, here is a socket I have. It is a 1/2 inch drive, 12 point, 1 inch size socket. The only markings are a 1, the U-circle, and CRAFTSMAN. It has a knurled band around the base. It does not have indentations or a hole for the drive ball. The socket is chromed, and much shinier than it appears in the photo. (I had to play around with the lighting to make the code legible in the pic).

Wish I could see this picture. All I see is a square with a red x.

Rusty O'Toole · Jan 8, 2009

v8garage said:
Wish I could see this picture. All I see is a square with a red x.

Anyone else having problems with the Photobucket link? Here ya go, v8garage... I shrank it down enough to make it an attachment.

lauver · Jan 9, 2009

Rusty O'Toole said:
Hello all, I'm a newbie here. I found this site and thread while researching some old tools I've inherited.

Regarding the CRAFTSMAN U-circle code, here is a socket I have. It is a 1/2 inch drive, 12 point, 1 inch size socket. The only markings are a 1, the U-circle, and CRAFTSMAN. It has a knurled band around the base. It does not have indentations or a hole for the drive ball. The socket is chromed, and much shinier than it appears in the photo. (I had to play around with the lighting to make the code legible in the pic).

Rusty,

Thanks for posting the U-circle socket. If you've read through the other U-circle posts on this thread you know this is a WWII era tool (1944-1948). Very nice find.

lauver · Jan 9, 2009

64merc said:
It is certainly likely that Stanley made those Tri-Wing ratchets for C-man. I would like to find out the truth one day.

While I agree that we don't know for sure if Easco made the EE series, I am far less skeptical than you are about this. If Stanley made the EE series, why have I never seen a Stanley socket with the same chrome color as the EE series? I have some NOS Easco universal sockets somewhere and IIRC they most resemble the EE series.

64merc said:
lauver, let me ask you something, have you ever seen any Stanley sockets that look anything like the C-man EE series (USA) sockets? Personally, I've never seen any Stanley sockets that resemble old C-man sockets. Of course, it is possible that they made a special production run just for these C-man sockets, but it doesn't seem cost-effective to me.

Your theory is indeed reasonable and plausable, but on what basis do you doubt my theory of two manufacturer/one code? If they were trying to hide the fact that they were shifting production overseas, I would consider it very likely that they kept the same code in the transition.

Oh heck, who knows. I could be way off base, but at least I'm making you think.

64merc,

OK, I think I have this EE socket thing sorted out.

I found a 3/8 drive EE 15mm socket that is in perfect condition. I compared it to a standard (not pro-series) Stanley 3/8 drive 15mm Taiwanese made socket on the rack in Walmart. They were a near perfect match; same height and diameter, same angled chamfer at top and bottom of socket, same bright chrome plating, and no metric bands on either socket. The few differences I noted were: different brands, different model numbers, and different countries of origin.

I then compared the Craftsman EE socket to the same size G socket (purchased during the Easco years). The EE was about 1/16 taller and about a 1/32 larger in diameter than the G. The EE chrome plating was brighter (whiter) than the G. The EE had no metric banding while the G did. The EE had a pronounced angled chamfer top and bottom while the G had a much less pronounced rounded chamfer top and bottom. Both sockets were stamped made in the USA, both had the same Craftsman logo style, and both had model numbers (but different).

So, I am now reasonably satisfied that Stanley works was the OEM of the EE made in USA sockets. I also think that Stanley was manufacturing sockets and ratchets in the united states when the EE series tools were introduced, and later started migrating some of their production overseas, thus accounting for the EE Taiwanese tools. I also think there was a short time in between when Stanley was not accurately reporting the countries of origin on their tools, which resulted in the FTC warning.

I hope this clears up the EE socket issues. If not, post away, I'll be here.

64merc · Jan 9, 2009

lauver said:
64merc,

OK, I think I have this EE socket thing sorted out.

I found a 3/8 drive EE 15mm socket that is in perfect condition. I compared it to a standard (not pro-series) Stanley 3/8 drive 15mm Taiwanese made socket on the rack in Walmart. They were a near perfect match; same height and diameter, same angled chamfer at top and bottom of socket, same bright chrome plating, and no metric bands on either socket. The few differences I noted were: different brands, different model numbers, and different countries of origin.

I then compared the Craftsman EE socket to the same size G socket (purchased during the Easco years). The EE was about 1/16 taller and about a 1/32 larger in diameter than the G. The EE chrome plating was brighter (whiter) than the G. The EE had no metric banding while the G did. The EE had a pronounced angled chamfer top and bottom while the G had a much less pronounced rounded chamfer top and bottom. Both sockets were stamped made in the USA, both had the same Craftsman logo style, and both had model numbers (but different).

So, I am now reasonably satisfied that Stanley works was the OEM of the EE made in USA sockets. I also think that Stanley was manufacturing sockets and ratchets in the united states when the EE series tools were introduced, and later started migrating some of their production overseas, thus accounting for the EE Taiwanese tools. I also think there was a short time in between when Stanley was not accurately reporting the countries of origin on their tools, which resulted in the FTC warning.

I hope this clears up the EE socket issues. If not, post away, I'll be here.

Very interesting findings Gary. It seems as if we are much closer to determining that Stanley made the EE series sockets. The only thing still troubling me is the fact that those Cman sockets were made many years ago, and the same sockets with a Stanley brand are still being manufactured. Could it be that they haven't changed their tooling (design at least) since they made the EE sockets? With Stanley and their cost cutting measures anything is possible though. Thoughts?

Good work sir!

lauver · Jan 10, 2009

64merc said:
Very interesting findings Gary. It seems as if we are much closer to determining that Stanley made the EE series sockets. The only thing still troubling me is the fact that those Cman sockets were made many years ago, and the same sockets with a Stanley brand are still being manufactured. Could it be that they haven't changed their tooling (design at least) since they made the EE sockets? With Stanley and their cost cutting measures anything is possible though. Thoughts?

Good work sir!

64merc,

When you stop to think about it, socket design hasn't changed all that much in the last 75 years, regardless of brand/OEM. That said, my teeth almost fell out when I laid that EE socket up against todays Stanley socket and realized, that for all practical purposes, they are one in the same.

lauver · Jan 12, 2009

Fedwrench said:
This thread is so large now, perhaps the 3 digit date codes could be a sticky at the beginning of the forum or a separate thread?

Fedwrench,

How exactly do you get a sticky? Is it something I do or is it something an administrator does?

bmwpower · Feb 10, 2009

This thread and post 69 have been added to the top of Jim's sticky found here:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5024

lauver · Feb 10, 2009

bmwpower,

Thanks for the help.

Gang,

Bmwpower has added two quick links at the top of the "Directory of Top Threads: Most Popular and Informative" Sticky thread.

One click will get you to this thread, or

One click will get you to the series code chart if you want to check a series code.

I trust this will make everyones life a little easier.

lauver · Feb 11, 2009

Just completed another major update to the Series Code Summary Table. There were quite a few changes (highlighted in red in the summary table), but I'll outline only the major changes below:

V = Moore Drop Forge, ca. 1938 - 1967

V continued = Easco, ca. 1968 - 1986 (trail ends here)

VV = Easco, 1982 - 1989

VV continued = Danaher, 1990 - 2008 (probably still in use)

G = Easco, 1980 - 1989 (perhaps as early as 1979 when Easco acquired the Gastonia plant)

G continued = Danaher, 1990 - 2009

VA = formerly Danaher, ca. 2002 - 2008 (Deleted, a case of mistaken identify involving V^)

If anybody can provide reasonable evidence of dates outside the above date ranges, please post them on this thread and I will make any necessary adjustments.

lauver · Feb 11, 2009

MAD,

I found something interesting at Sears today that may interest you as well. I was looking at a Craftsman 7" end nipper (mn 45326, made in USA, X series code) because I had never seen a Cman version before. One foot away, on the same rack was a Channellock 7" end nipper. I laid them side by side, and I couldn't find a shread of difference except for the grips (black vs. blue). They even shared similar forge marks.

It's quite possible that the Cman end nippers were made by Channellock (a first that I'm aware of). The other interesting aspect is the X series code. I believe you posted an X series 9/16" sparkplug socket that you attributed to SK. If so, who is the real X? Any thoughts???

superautobacs · Feb 11, 2009

Hi Gary,

First off, I appreciate the dedication and time you have put towards this subject. :bowdown:

Relatively speaking, I'm a complete newbie with Craftsman tools and well, tools in general.

But learning, researching, finding, and buying tools has become a new found hobby for me....sure is addicting.

Anyhow, I saw post #69. There's a lot of codes there!!
I recently bought Craftsman sockets in good condition from a pawnshop, and they were "EE" coded.

My question is: which of those codes only applies to Craftsman sockets?

lauver · Feb 11, 2009

Super,

G, G1, G2, G2D, GD are pretty much sockets only.

Sockets and other tools among E, EE, V, VV.

If you shop in pawn shops, flea markets, garage sales, and ebay, you'll want to look for V, VV, and G sockets. Most of the E and EE sockets were made in Taiwan, though some were made in the U.S.

If you shop at Sears, thru any of their channels, you'll find mostly G2G and GD (these are the latest series introduced in 2008). If you look carefully you can still find some G and G2 on the racks.

Happy hunting!

T56 Impala · Feb 25, 2009

Lauver, you still around?

I have a question for you. (Well a few actually)

1. Was the U circle stamp used exclusively during the WWII time frame?

2. We any of the WWII era sockets stamped in a manner that separated them from standard tools?

3. We any of the MILITARY use tools different from standard Craftsman tools? (Stampings, coating, distinguishing markings?)

4. Is there a list somewhere with all available sizes for the BE, circle H and the circle U sockets?

FWIW, I found a very nice example of an early =Craftsman= V open end wrench. One thing interesting is the "N" in the area between the 9/16 face and the raised panel. Any idea what that means?

wyndycity · Feb 25, 2009

Sorry to add to this looong thread and possibly to the confusion but after trying to read through all the pages here (got carpal tunnel in my wrist by now) I haven't been able to find anything about the "O" mark on one of my =Craftsman= wrenches.

View media item 490
View media item 493
View media item 491
As you can see, there's no mark other than that "O" which is pretty thick and bold.

Until I found it again recently, it was floating around my grandma's house for many years, probably at the least 20 years, but I don't know exactly where it came from and when.

Anyone out there that can help decode this one or do I have an unknown mark?

I know there are many unanswered questions on this thread but perhaps the pics I've provided will help everyone determine if this one needs to be added to the time frame/forge mark list...

old salvage · Feb 25, 2009

Not sure but I think markings that are forged into the metal like that are just codes for the mfg. Perhaps a batch number or something.

lauver · Feb 25, 2009

T56 Impala said:
Lauver, you still around?

I have a question for you. (Well a few actually)

1. Was the U circle stamp used exclusively during the WWII time frame?

2. We any of the WWII era sockets stamped in a manner that separated them from standard tools?

3. We any of the MILITARY use tools different from standard Craftsman tools? (Stampings, coating, distinguishing markings?)

4. Is there a list somewhere with all available sizes for the BE, circle H and the circle U sockets?

FWIW, I found a very nice example of an early =Craftsman= V open end wrench. One thing interesting is the "N" in the area between the 9/16 face and the raised panel. Any idea what that means?

T56,

Those are hard questions to answer because our entire knowledge of U-circle is based on only four tools (two ratchets, one sliding t-handle, and one socket; that's not much to go on.

That said, it looks like U-circle is rare, which would explaine why we have so few tools, and also suggests that U-circle may have been short lived.

So what do we know?

The dates for U-circle ratchets was 1944 - 1948 (the t-handle and socket have not been dated, but are thought to coincide with the ratchets).

Alloy Artifacts indicates that MDF began producing tools for Sears in 1938, but there is no tool or catalog evidence until 1947 when the V series tools first appeared. So, it would appear that U-circle dissapeared one year after V appeared. Sorta makes sense -- MDF becomes the principal OEM and Plomb (a short term OEM) fades into history.

If you read the old Sears catalogs from the war years, there is a lot of hoopla about Sears supplying tools to the war effort, both at home and abroad. I'm guessing Sears supplied standard tools. To date, there is zero evidence to support any special markings on Craftsman war era tools. On the other hand, there is evidence that war era Craftsman tools had less elaborate plating on these tools...look no further than the U-circle ratchet.

Regarding socket size lists for BE, H-circle, and U-circle series -- I am unaware of any such lists. But, with lots of careful work and a bunch of war era catalogs, you could probably build a representative list.

Regarding the forged "N" on your V series wrench, I have seen this and many other forge marks on Craftsman tools and non-Craftsman tools sold by Sears. Nobody seems to know what these forge marks mean; it could be that this is some kind of OEM artifact which has no significance to Sears or Craftsman tools.

EDIT: Regarding the finishes -- of the four known U-circle tools, the finishes are a mixed bag:

Ratchets(2)--Dull, unpolished, looks like tin/cad plating (examples are well preserved).

Sliding T-Handle(1)--Chrome/cad plated, not sure if polished (most of plating missing in example).

Socket(1)--Looks to be chrome plated, but not highly polished (example is in fair condition, owner indicated that the finish is better than the photo shows).

lauver · Feb 26, 2009

wyndycity said:
Sorry to add to this looong thread and possibly to the confusion but after trying to read through all the pages here (got carpal tunnel in my wrist by now) I haven't been able to find anything about the "O" mark on one of my =Craftsman= wrenches.

View media item 490
View media item 493
View media item 491
As you can see, there's no mark other than that "O" which is pretty thick and bold.

Until I found it again recently, it was floating around my grandma's house for many years, probably at the least 20 years, but I don't know exactly where it came from and when.

Anyone out there that can help decode this one or do I have an unknown mark?

I know there are many unanswered questions on this thread but perhaps the pics I've provided will help everyone determine if this one needs to be added to the time frame/forge mark list...

Wyndycity,

The "O" on your wrench is a forge mark, not a stamped series code. Nobody seems to know the meaning of these forge marks; Best guess is that the forge marks are simply an artifacts of the OEM and have no significance to Sears or the Craftsman brand.

Your wrench appears to be an early production of the V-series tools that were first introduced in 1947. Even though it lacks a series code, it's still a "keeper" and a great example of the early V-series tools. Nice photos by the way!

lbgradwell · Feb 26, 2009

lauver said:
Those are hard questions to answer because our entire knowledge of U-circle is based on only four tools (two ratchets, one sliding t-handle, and one socket; that's not much to go on.

...

Socket(1)--Looks to be chrome plated, but not highly polished (example is in poor condition).

Gary,

I have a few U-circle sockets that came in a lot I bought. IIRC they were in decent condition. I'll see if I can dig them out & post a shot or two...

lauver · Feb 26, 2009

lbgradwell said:
Gary,

I have a few U-circle sockets that came in a lot I bought. IIRC they were in decent condition. I'll see if I can dig them out & post a shot or two...

LG,

Good to hear from you. By all means, please post photos of any U-circle sockets or other U-circle tools you may have. So far, examples of U-circle have been few and far between.

lauver · Feb 26, 2009

Just noticed this thread has passed a milestone...500 posts. Old Salvage posted # 500 on 2/25/09. Interestingly, Old Salvage posted #1 back on 1/5/08. There's a lot of material and a long list of series codes between these two posts.

Anybody want to hoist a beer? :beer:

old salvage · Feb 26, 2009

I may have started things but its obvious who puts the most effort in.
Thanks.
Next beer,
I'll think of this thread........

lauver · Feb 26, 2009

Old Salvage,

You posted a beer I've never heard of. I'll have to satisfy myself with a local favorite, Shiner Bock. AHHHH. :beer:

That was so good I may have to have another one.

Elroy · Feb 26, 2009

lauver said:
EDIT: Regarding the finishes -- of the four known U-circle tools, the finishes are a mixed bag:

Ratchets(2)--Dull, unpolished, looks like tin plating (examples are well preserved).

Sliding T-Handle(1)--Black Oxide industrial finish (example is well preserved).

Socket(1)--Looks to be chrome plated, but not highly polished (example is in fair condition, Rusty O' Tool indicated that the finish is better than the photo shows).

Now don't forget this

Elroy said:
The Elroy was digging through the tool box this afternoon and noticed the "code" stamping on this 1/2" Craftsman slider. Can't ever recall seeing a "U" code before.

What do you guys know about this series??

This U circle slider still shows some of the original plating on the bar. It's not black

wyndycity · Feb 26, 2009

lauver said:
Wyndycity,

The "O" on your wrench is a forge mark, not a stamped series code. Nobody seems to know the meaning of these forge marks; Best guess is that the forge marks are simply an artifacts of the OEM and have no significance to Sears or the Craftsman brand.

Your wrench appears to be an early production of the V-series tools that were first introduced in 1947. Even though it lacks a series code, it's still a "keeper" and a great example of the early V-series tools. Nice photos by the way!

Thanks for clearing that up for me Lauver.

Looks like I was getting the series code and forge stamps mixed up. I was thinking that both were more closely related but I'm glad to hear that my wrench is a keeper!

Not a glamorous wrench but whenever I use it, it'll feel good to know I'm using good ole' fashioned American iron. Good enough for me. :thumbup:

Slowly but surely I'm learning more and more about the tools I have and the tools you guys are making me want.

lauver · Feb 26, 2009

Elroy,

All this time I thought your T-handle was finished in black oxide. Are you saying it was originally chrome plated?

Elroy · Feb 26, 2009

In the picture you can still see some of the finish on the cross bar at both ends. The right end is a little more pronounced. The square drive is obviously chrome.

NOT BLACK!. The detail of the stamping sure looks that way, but it had some kind of plated finish on it. Maybe it was cad but that that would be a guess.

lauver · Feb 27, 2009

Elroy,

Thanks for the correction; I'll edit the posts above accordingly.

FWIW, everytime I look at your photos I see black oxide; it could be the lighting...don't know. I'm not faulting your photo skills, god knows your photos are as good as they get.

Off Topic: Have you ever considered doing a GJ photo how-to post?

I have recently purchased a nice Olympus digital camera and am in the process of reading the manual, getting familier with the camera settings, and trying to figure out how to get high quality results.

I read a great thread on how to build a good, but inexpensive, light box. One of the other photo gurus posted this. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

My biggest problem at the moment seems to be getting the photo's from my PC to my GJ post. When I test them, frequently my jpg's are too big. How do you handle the desired resolution vs allowable file size issue? Are there some guidelines on maximum file size? In short, how do you manage to get such good pictures and stay within the limitations of the GJ site?

lbgradwell · Apr 4, 2009

OK,

So I finally got around to digging out those U-Circle sockets mentioned above. They look like they have a cadmium finish...:

lauver · Apr 4, 2009

LB,

Thanks for the photo. Those sockets look like new. Very nice!

I picked up a 1/2" drive x 1" 12Pt U-circle socket at a pawn shop yesterday. It's chome plated, lightly polished, and in fair but used condition. I must have looked through a 1,000 sockets to find this lone U-circle.

From what I can tell, U-circle tools are pretty darn rare; if you have some, you are definately in the minority and must be living a charmed life.

The good news, I found about a dozen BE and Cxx sockets in fair to good condition (they all need a good soak in Evapo-Rust to make em look right again). I also found some good early S-K, Plomb, Proto, Bonney, and Herbrand sockets, but that's another thread...

Elroy · Apr 6, 2009

Here are a few vintage Craftsman ratchet box ends for your enjoyment. To the best of Elroy's knowledge, Pop got these new somewhere between 1964 and say 1968.

lauver · Apr 6, 2009

Elroy,

Now we know where GearWrench got their idea!!!

Is there a series code on the other side them there ratcheting box-ends?

Elroy · Apr 6, 2009

lauver said:
Elroy,

Now we know where GearWrench got their idea!!!

Is there a series code on the other side them there ratcheting box-ends?

Sorry, Both sides are stamped identically. You see one side, you see the other.

Uncle Buck · Apr 6, 2009

Elroy said:
Sorry, Both sides are stamped identically. You see one side, you see the other.

I love those old school Craftys Elroy! I ever find a set they will be hitchin a ride home for sure regardless whether I ever use them or not! Just cause I like them, that will be reason enough on that day! :bounce:

wyndycity · Apr 6, 2009

Those are real sharp looking C-Mans! They look so new! If I ever come across those, I'm breaking out the wallet! :bounce:

Thanks for sharing Elroy.

Elroy · Apr 6, 2009

wyndycity said:
Those are real sharp looking C-Mans! They look so new!

Well we put the best side up for the photo. But Pops taught Elroy to take care of his tools and these Craftsman are in generally excellent shape.

wyndycity said:
Thanks for sharing Elroy.

You're very welcome :thumbup:

Craftsman : series time frame ?

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