When are AA and AAA batteries concidered Dead
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FigureItOut
Well-known member
Below 1.2V or so they're pretty worthless, but you can have batteries reading at 1.5 that won't actually do anything. The free HF meter actually has a cool little battery tester. It puts a 360 ohm load on the battery and measures the current. You see a touch over 4 mA with a good battery. You could easily replicate it with any meter and a resistor.
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WWheeler
Well-known member
After they've been recharged a 1,000 to 2,100 times depending on brand.
Seriously. I haven't bought an alkaline battery in years except for 9v (only because I haven't found a good rechargeable solution there ... yet). Good brands like Eneloops and Amazon Basics (rebranded eneloops) rechargables regulars and pros can be recharged thousands of times, hold a stored charge longer than an alkaline in the package will, and on a single charge outlast duracell and energizer alkalines. Instead of throwing them away to go in the landfill I just swap them out for a charged set from the rack and put the dead ones on the charger and then back in the rack when done.
It's a bit of investment that has paid for itself many many times over, and I never ever have to worry about not having a new battery.
Seriously. I haven't bought an alkaline battery in years except for 9v (only because I haven't found a good rechargeable solution there ... yet). Good brands like Eneloops and Amazon Basics (rebranded eneloops) rechargables regulars and pros can be recharged thousands of times, hold a stored charge longer than an alkaline in the package will, and on a single charge outlast duracell and energizer alkalines. Instead of throwing them away to go in the landfill I just swap them out for a charged set from the rack and put the dead ones on the charger and then back in the rack when done.
It's a bit of investment that has paid for itself many many times over, and I never ever have to worry about not having a new battery.
JonnyMac
Well-known member
When you drop them on the negative end and they bounce or is it when they dont bounce! Cant remember and i dont have one to hand so try it on a new battery and it the opposite of what that does!!!
ddawg16
Well-known member
That is about the most bull **** thing I've heard
About par to drilling a audio jack into your new iPhone 7
ddawg16
Well-known member
To the OP....around 1.3 Vdc. After that, the voltage drops pretty fast.
And a lot depends on what it's in. Devices like flash lights will seem 'ok' down to about 1.1 Vdc...but that 'ok' won't last long.
And a lot depends on what it's in. Devices like flash lights will seem 'ok' down to about 1.1 Vdc...but that 'ok' won't last long.
TK-421
Well-known member
ddawg16
Well-known member
Then why does it work?
Does it really?
https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S42/72/95S25/index.xml?section=topstories
I never heard of bouncing a battery before - but from the article you linked to:
Here is a screen grab from the video in the article - it looks like if a battery has 80% or more of its charge, it won't bounce
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TK-421
Well-known member
Yup, it does, watch the video I linked you to.
It won't give a guaranteed or exact result, but it will at least get you inside the ballpark. If it doesn't bounce then it's fine, if it does bounce then you should check it. It's definitely a more efficient way to check, instead of sticking a volt meter to every single one. Bounce them and check the ones that bounce highest.
Plus, bouncing them is so much more fun.
JonnyMac
Well-known member
Ddawg... you feeling a little silly yet?
Coolabah
Well-known member
Yeh, agreed. My way of doing things is : if you need to test the batteries ( ie "issue with performance") then if the battery reads less than 1.44, replace battery and place old battery in "use for torches pile" . Why 1.44 ? Dunno but for a while I kept actual records and graphed it all like I was a real scientist, this is my solution YMMV
Coolabah
Well-known member
Yup, it does, watch the video I linked you to.
It won't give a guaranteed or exact result, but it will at least get you inside the ballpark. If it doesn't bounce then it's fine, if it does bounce then you should check it. It's definitely a more efficient way to check, instead of sticking a volt meter to every single one. Bounce them and check the ones that bounce highest.
Plus, bouncing them is so much more fun.
Interesting take on it all- but it takes me longer to bounce the battery, fetch it from under the car that it has rolled under....than to test with a multimeter .... obviously your mileage varies ! Does bouncing the battery hurt it ?
No-one should feel silly for voicing their opinion on GJ - that's why we all feel free to chime in with our thoughts ! Part of our great community.
edit : meaning to catch up with you ... how are you going with those Sidchromes ?
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jallyn
Well-known member
timbitca
Well-known member
After they've been recharged a 1,000 to 2,100 times depending on brand.
Seriously. I haven't bought an alkaline battery in years except for 9v (only because I haven't found a good rechargeable solution there ... yet). Good brands like Eneloops and Amazon Basics (rebranded eneloops) rechargables regulars and pros can be recharged thousands of times, hold a stored charge longer than an alkaline in the package will, and on a single charge outlast duracell and energizer alkalines. Instead of throwing them away to go in the landfill I just swap them out for a charged set from the rack and put the dead ones on the charger and then back in the rack when done.
It's a bit of investment that has paid for itself many many times over, and I never ever have to worry about not having a new battery.
That picture hurts. I used to have a bunch of rechargeable Duracell's. SWMBO's kid sister moved in with us last fall. Just noticed a couple days ago that she had her father buy a bunch of AA batteries (cheapest he could find, obviously) because she'd been throwing all of my "dead" ones away. I must have had at least 10-12 AA's and about the same in AAA's. Down to 2 AA's... not very impressed.
WWheeler
Well-known member
That post hurts. A lot.
I've gone to great lengths to make sure that everyone in my house KNOWS not to throw my rechargeable batteries away, but that has always been a fear.
Thanks for posting that about those HF meters.
timbitca
Well-known member
Yeah.
I could always rebuild with Eneloops though, have only heard good things about them and those trays you have are pretty cool.
ddawg16
Well-known member
Nope....not at all. Way to many factors to make it a conclusive test.
What was the bounce surface?
Does it work for all brands of batteries?
And as that video shows, based on the bounce, you would be throwing away batteries that still have half their charge.
Hence, maybe you're the one who should be feeling a little silly
FigureItOut
Well-known member
If you check out the Amazon branded rechargeables, there's a prolific reviewer who makes a very convincing case that they are actually rebranded Eneloops. He did some pretty extensive testing and even explains which color Amazon batteries are which generation Eneloops. If they're not the same batteries they certainly perform similarly at a much lower cost.
I have this battery tester that works quite well.
It uses a '2 second pulse load test' to test the performance, not just the voltage. And it will check 15 different battery types
I have had it for years, but when I looked it up today I see it is selling for $42 (ouch - little spendy, I don't think I spend that much on it)
ZTS-MINIMBT
It uses a '2 second pulse load test' to test the performance, not just the voltage. And it will check 15 different battery types
I have had it for years, but when I looked it up today I see it is selling for $42 (ouch - little spendy, I don't think I spend that much on it)
ZTS-MINIMBT
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Shark Pilot
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Love my Eneloops which I've had for like 7 years and still going strong - will have to check out the Amazon ones. Two boys and Xbox controllers - no problem!
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Best way to test ANY battery is under load !
Get a couple of cheap single cell non-LED flashlight at HF. Screw the battery in and rate the brightness compared to a new battery.
Get a couple of cheap single cell non-LED flashlight at HF. Screw the battery in and rate the brightness compared to a new battery.
WWheeler
Well-known member
Yeah I mentioned that in my first post on this thread. Amazon Basics rechargeables definitely are rebranded Eneloops at quite a bit better price, but the previous generation. Sort of like some Williams tools (screwdrivers/wrenches) are rebranded Snap On of a previous generation. The difference between generations of Eneloops is negligible though. I think the specs are largely the same but they upgraded the number of recharges from 1800 to 2100 times or some such. I can't imagine anyone ever recharging enough times to notice the difference. I'm at most a hundred charges (more likely less than half that) in on any of either brand and couldn't tell you any difference between them.
I highly recommend a better charger though than the eneloop brand ones which are lacking. I use a La Cross model. Lets you charge individuals or sets same or mismatched, shows you the charge on each, stops charging when full, etc.
Schurkey
Well-known member
Every rechargeable tool battery I've ever owned turned to **** within a dozen recharges. Cell phone batteries are noticeably worn after nine months, and totally **** in three years.
I actively avoid rechargeable batteries, and DEEPLY resent being forced into them when devices come with custom-profile battery packs so that I can't just pop in some AA or C or D cells.
Far as I'm concerned, rechargeable batteries are a hateful joke foisted on an unsuspecting public by folks in "marketing" who pretend to be "green" but aren't.
At whatever point a conventional battery is considered "dead", that's the point where it's in danger of leaking, which corrodes the device it's installed in. I've scrapped too many beautiful Mag-Lites (and remote controls) because the switch got turned on while it was in the glove box, the batteries died, and then they corroded so badly the batteries couldn't be removed except with a slide-hammer.
I actively avoid rechargeable batteries, and DEEPLY resent being forced into them when devices come with custom-profile battery packs so that I can't just pop in some AA or C or D cells.
Far as I'm concerned, rechargeable batteries are a hateful joke foisted on an unsuspecting public by folks in "marketing" who pretend to be "green" but aren't.
At whatever point a conventional battery is considered "dead", that's the point where it's in danger of leaking, which corrodes the device it's installed in. I've scrapped too many beautiful Mag-Lites (and remote controls) because the switch got turned on while it was in the glove box, the batteries died, and then they corroded so badly the batteries couldn't be removed except with a slide-hammer.
WWheeler
Well-known member
I wanna see a video of a corroded battery removal from a remote with a slide hammer. That ought to be fun. 
Your experience and mine with rechargeables couldn't be more different. We used to easily go through more than $10 worth of batteries a month and often >2x that, and now I haven't had to buy a throwaway cell in years. Never yet ran into a "custom-profile battery pack" that they don't work with.
Rechargeable NiMH batteries have a distinct advantage over Alkalines with a much more stable voltage output under load over a longer period of time and they hold a charge longer when not in use. Good ones, like Eneloops, can easily be recharged more than a thousand times.
http://eznec.com/Amateur/1.5_vs_1.2_Volt_Batteries.pdf (pdf)
http://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/battery/eneloop/technologies.html
I even use them in 3xAA to 1xD Parallel Adapters in my Maglites.
The only downside I've seen from rechargeables is the initial cost, which even if you go with Amazon Basics (rebranded Eneloops) they still will set you back several times what a comparable number of alkalines will, so whether it's actually worth it to someone would depend on several factors like their budget, how often do they need to replace batteries in their devices, and perhaps one's feelings on the environment & the planet's limited resources, etc might play a part.
Your experience and mine with rechargeables couldn't be more different. We used to easily go through more than $10 worth of batteries a month and often >2x that, and now I haven't had to buy a throwaway cell in years. Never yet ran into a "custom-profile battery pack" that they don't work with.
Rechargeable NiMH batteries have a distinct advantage over Alkalines with a much more stable voltage output under load over a longer period of time and they hold a charge longer when not in use. Good ones, like Eneloops, can easily be recharged more than a thousand times.
http://eznec.com/Amateur/1.5_vs_1.2_Volt_Batteries.pdf (pdf)
http://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/battery/eneloop/technologies.html
I even use them in 3xAA to 1xD Parallel Adapters in my Maglites.
The only downside I've seen from rechargeables is the initial cost, which even if you go with Amazon Basics (rebranded Eneloops) they still will set you back several times what a comparable number of alkalines will, so whether it's actually worth it to someone would depend on several factors like their budget, how often do they need to replace batteries in their devices, and perhaps one's feelings on the environment & the planet's limited resources, etc might play a part.
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ddawg16
Well-known member
And lack of use or over charging as well.
Worse thing you can do is charge a battery and then let it sit for months. Next worse thing, leave it on the charger for days. Cheap chargers keep putting in juice.
If the battery is warm after a few days sitting on the charger, it's a cheap charger. The heat you are feeling is the battery trying to get rid of the excess charge via heat. All it's really doing is killing the battery.
Worse thing you can do is charge a battery and then let it sit for months. Next worse thing, leave it on the charger for days. Cheap chargers keep putting in juice.
If the battery is warm after a few days sitting on the charger, it's a cheap charger. The heat you are feeling is the battery trying to get rid of the excess charge via heat. All it's really doing is killing the battery.
JonnyMac
Well-known member
Every time I take out a dead AA i bounce it and do the same for the incoming new battery. Always bounces and the new one doesn't.
Been doing this for at least 10 years and my kids go through a lot of them. I buy bulk from costco so the new ones may have been open for over a year and it still works.
If i find a battery in a drawer that I'm not sure about a quick bounce tells me everything I need to know, i spent at least a couple of years following up the unknown battery by putting it in a small single cell torch and looking at the beam of light which was always dull... its a method that works quick and easy to determine whether a battery has been used. For the 50c that a new cell costs I'd always prefer to use a new one rather than risk being in the middle of an evenings beach fish on my local beach and having my head torch give out. If theres a decent bounce the battery gets tossed inthe recycling bin
Been doing this for at least 10 years and my kids go through a lot of them. I buy bulk from costco so the new ones may have been open for over a year and it still works.
If i find a battery in a drawer that I'm not sure about a quick bounce tells me everything I need to know, i spent at least a couple of years following up the unknown battery by putting it in a small single cell torch and looking at the beam of light which was always dull... its a method that works quick and easy to determine whether a battery has been used. For the 50c that a new cell costs I'd always prefer to use a new one rather than risk being in the middle of an evenings beach fish on my local beach and having my head torch give out. If theres a decent bounce the battery gets tossed inthe recycling bin
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Corndoggeh
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After they've been recharged a 1,000 to 2,100 times depending on brand.
Seriously. I haven't bought an alkaline battery in years except for 9v (only because I haven't found a good rechargeable solution there ... yet). Good brands like Eneloops and Amazon Basics (rebranded eneloops) rechargables regulars and pros can be recharged thousands of times, hold a stored charge longer than an alkaline in the package will, and on a single charge outlast duracell and energizer alkalines. Instead of throwing them away to go in the landfill I just swap them out for a charged set from the rack and put the dead ones on the charger and then back in the rack when done.
It's a bit of investment that has paid for itself many many times over, and I never ever have to worry about not having a new battery.
The only reason I haven't invested in rechargeable yet is because I'm not the only one that lives at my house. Its the same exact problem with flashlights where they just disappeared. I hope with the flashlights Ill reach a saturation point where they never disappear again.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
I wonder why my 3-year-old cellphone that gets depleted down to 10-30% battery life daily still has 85% of its original battery capacity? Or my 5-year-old laptop battery that still has ~70% of its original capacity?
Not all batteries (and the devices that charge them) are created equal.
WWheeler
Well-known member
Might want to research that a bit more. Eneloop batteries are designed so that they may be charged and sit for years before use if need be. The standard eneloops lose less than 10% charge over one year and retain a 70% charge if not used for 10 years.
I even use them in my Maglites stored in our vehicles that may not see any use for a year or more at a time and when I do need them there's plenty of juice.
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jakemac
Well-known member
In my house we know the batteries are dead when my 3-1/2yo nephew starts crying because his toy won't work.
That is what I always thought. The primary advantage of an Eneloop is the very low discharge rate which makes them great for storage. They are supposed to retain 85% of their charge over the course of a year and they are usually sold pre charged
ddawg16
Well-known member
Maybe you should research that as well.
Here....I'll make it easy for you....
http://main.panasonic-eneloop.eu/en/products
and here...
http://main.panasonic-eneloop.eu/en/faq
You need to make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
The Eneloop's are NIMH
Most of us (at least me) have been talking about NiCad
If you go to their web site, some of those batteries have their 70% listed for 1 year.
I used to work in an industry that used a lot of NiCad's....and I've built testers for them.
Here is a little primer on NIMH vs NiCad
http://www.all-battery.com/batterytechnicals.aspx
Cell phones typically use Li batteries
WWheeler
Well-known member
Um, this thread was about AA and AAA batteries, and I brought up rechargeable options, namely good brands like the Eneloops and Amazon Basics (eneloop rebrands). I certainly wasn't talking anything about Ni-Cd rechargeable AA & AAA batteries. Didn't even know such an animal existed until just now.
Thanks for the Eneloop links that back up all my points though.
ddawg16
Well-known member
Until recently, all rechargeable batteries (small) were NiCad.
But thanks for the Eneloop suggestion....
BTW....you will notice some of those Eneloop batteries have much shorter self discharge times. I'd be curious as to why.
Side note....for larger applications, Gell Cells are the typical solution.
But thanks for the Eneloop suggestion....
BTW....you will notice some of those Eneloop batteries have much shorter self discharge times. I'd be curious as to why.
Side note....for larger applications, Gell Cells are the typical solution.
I wanna see a video of a corroded battery removal from a remote with a slide hammer. That ought to be fun.
A leaking Duracell was locked TIGHT in my 6D MagLite. Of course it was the one closest to the bulb. Priced a new 6D mag lite, then priced the switch. Into my 20 ton press with some 1/2" drive impact sockets it went. Didn't think to video it, and I'm glad I didnt--it was seriously uneventful, sadly.
It broke the switch/bulb holder assembly and the snap ring. About $12 later I had a working mag lite again. And yes, it was kinda fun to press out a battery.
NiCds haven't been the typical AA/AAA rechargable battery for at least 15 years. I've occasionally seen them as OEM in things like solar garden lights.
NiMH didn't make it into power tool batteries until shortly before the lithium takeover. I assume that was due to the self-discharge issue.
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