SBD's Update On Craftsman, DeWalt/Flexvolt

Thumper68 · Oct 25, 2017

I have high hopes for SBD and the Craftsman line of hand tools. One thing that they have going for them is the experience of how well the Dewalt Made in America campaign has done for them, what most people here are missing is that most Americans are not tool snobs but do have at least a little pride, CM slipped because of poor decisions made by Sear execs, if they had continued the made in the USA and the tool catalog sales in a good web format they would have been much better off.

I'm sure that SBD will continue to produce the iconic raised panel design since most people recognize it, if they don't then they are missing the boat.

finn · Oct 25, 2017

Loscaldazar said:
With the success of SK coming back from the grave, it's a solid bet at this point. Who would have thought that such a relatively unknown brand to most people with next to zero tangible worth (e.g. machinery, patents, manufacturing facilities, IP, etc) would have such success? Ideal just bought a name and made a solid business out of it that they have struggled to keep up with demand.

Now imagine doing something similar, only with a tool brand that has the best name recognition in the United States. And that one of your main competitors (Lowes) for home gamer tools has agreed to carry your tool line (and probably drop Kobalt in the process).

Don’t get me wrong: my first “quality tools” were SK, but their distribution and market coverage and availability *****.

I can’t remember seeing a single store display of SK in the last year. Without shelf space, they’re pretty much limited to internet sales, and hand tools are something I like to handle personally before pulling the trigger.

SMKS · Oct 25, 2017

we continue to make great progress on Craftsman product development, supply chain deployment, and commercial strategy which includes the full support of Ace Hardware

Here’s my question about this: if they’re focusing on Ace, will they focus on making Ace honor the Craftsman warranty? I’ve read plenty of complaints on here about that.

finn · Oct 25, 2017

SMKS said:
Here’s my question about this: if they’re focusing on Ace, will they focus on making Ace honor the Craftsman warranty? I’ve read plenty of complaints on here about that.

This forum is probably the only place on earth where people are worried about warranty on a $3.00 socket that’s been used and abused for fifteen years.

Aberdale · Oct 25, 2017

finn said:
This forum is probably the only place on earth where people are worried about warranty on a $3.00 socket that’s been used and abused for fifteen years.

Agree with this 100%. I've worn out several CM screwdrivers, punches, and even a couple 12 pt sockets. Since they were worn out, I just bought new replacements. It never occurred to me to warranty them until I started visiting this site. I totally understand returning a product under warranty if it has a manufacturing defect. But expecting a free replacement for a product that provided years of service under use and abuse is just lame.

JazzBlueRT · Oct 25, 2017

lbhsbz said:
Now, if I want a "mid grade" wrench set, I'm stuck. There is not a US made wrench available at any store I can walk into...so that limits us to the big box stores chinese/taiwan offerings or whatever commodity grade stuff I might find in an auto parts store, or HF.

Everything you need.

https://loggerheadtools.com/?main_page=index

Beerman · Oct 25, 2017

Aberdale said:
Agree with this 100%. I've worn out several CM screwdrivers, punches, and even a couple 12 pt sockets. Since they were worn out, I just bought new replacements. It never occurred to me to warranty them until I started visiting this site. I totally understand returning a product under warranty if it has a manufacturing defect. But expecting a free replacement for a product that provided years of service under use and abuse is just lame.

Not lame. Good business. Used to work for Kmart. After they bought Sears. Saw NUMEROUS internal e-mails that showed people who came into warranty tools bought more stuff from Sears most of the time. Plus the fact that the liberal warranty made Cman the iconic brand it was/is.

Getting the traffic into Sears MORE than covered the warranty cost of Cman tools. Even if the warranty was often times abused.

Finance Guy · Oct 25, 2017

SMKS said:
Here’s my question about this: if they’re focusing on Ace, will they focus on making Ace honor the Craftsman warranty? I’ve read plenty of complaints on here about that.

All we know is that, though SBD did not assume any legal liability related to the existing Craftsman warranty, they have stated their intent to honor all such warranties.

"We also understand the Craftsman warranty is important to existing customers and intend to honor existing and offer similar warranties going forward." -James M. Loree, President & CEO

SMKS · Oct 25, 2017

finn said:
This forum is probably the only place on earth where people are worried about warranty on a $3.00 socket that’s been used and abused for fifteen years.

I'm not necessarily worried about warrantying old tools. My concern is I'd buy some new Craftsman tools, as I'll probably do when SBD releases them, but I won't be able to rely on any warranty service at Ace without keeping receipts or other hassles that aren't part of the Craftsman warranty.

We shall see what happens with the warranty, Ace and other retailers.

yamaha0343 · Oct 25, 2017

JazzBlueRT said:
Everything you need.

https://loggerheadtools.com/?main_page=index

nelstomlinson · Oct 25, 2017

zendriver said:
Where other choice did they have to shop, for tools, with the selection that Sears had?

Pretty much nowhere.

Not so today.

Auto parts stores used to carry SK, Proto and New Britain, that I can remember, along with Lisle and KD. All good American brands, and you had to go to the parts store anyway for parts and machining.

lbhsbz · Oct 25, 2017

JazzBlueRT said:
Everything you need.

https://loggerheadtools.com/?main_page=index

928'er · Oct 25, 2017

JazzBlueRT said:
Everything you need.

https://loggerheadtools.com/?main_page=index

Ha! Absolutely NOTHING that I need (but I think that was your point...).

zendriver · Oct 26, 2017

finn said:
This forum is probably the only place on earth where people are worried about warranty on a $3.00 socket that’s been used and abused for fifteen years.

No doubt there will be many lined up at the Lowe's service counter, patiently waiting to return, For replacement, their recent craftsman garage sale finds

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zendriver · Oct 26, 2017

nelstomlinson said:
Auto parts stores used to carry SK, Proto and New Britain, that I can remember, along with Lisle and KD. All good American brands, and you had to go to the parts store anyway for parts and machining.

True but Sears was really the only "nearly everything" tool store, from mechanics hand tools, to carpentry tools and up through large woodworking machines and the lawn/garden.

Now, those types of stores are everywhere, including the Internet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HanShotFirst · Oct 26, 2017

Loscaldazar said:
With the success of SK coming back from the grave, it's a solid bet at this point. Who would have thought that such a relatively unknown brand to most people with next to zero tangible worth (e.g. machinery, patents, manufacturing facilities, IP, etc) would have such success? Ideal just bought a name and made a solid business out of it that they have struggled to keep up with demand.

Now imagine doing something similar, only with a tool brand that has the best name recognition in the United States. And that one of your main competitors (Lowes) for home gamer tools has agreed to carry your tool line (and probably drop Kobalt in the process).

Good points, but it misses the money factor. SK is very small compared to Craftsman. While SK was going down hill their sales were going down. But with Craftsman, while their reputation was going to the dirt, their sales were increasing. And SK is an actual manufacturer, so their business model is completely different.

HanShotFirst · Oct 26, 2017

nelstomlinson said:
Auto parts stores used to carry SK, Proto and New Britain, that I can remember, along with Lisle and KD. All good American brands, and you had to go to the parts store anyway for parts and machining.

I really miss those days, because those are excellent brands. What they have been replaced with just doesn't hold a candle to those brands.

cdeer001 · Oct 26, 2017

zendriver said:
No doubt there will be many lined up at the Lowe's service counter, patiently waiting to return, For replacement, their recent craftsman garage sale finds.

Take it one step further, how many people will be lined up to replace China Craftsman with USA Craftsman??

Sco Deac · Oct 26, 2017

cdeer001 said:
Take it one step further, how many people will be lined up to replace China Craftsman with USA Craftsman??

If done correctly, it could be a marketing windfall. Every news channel runs a story about people lining up to replace old Sears/Craftsman junk with the newly launched USA assembled quality products. The story will talk about how new Craftsman is honoring the warranty. Not saying warranty abuse, particularly the egregious type you describe, won't be a problem, but they will ascribe a "marketing" value to it.

zendriver · Oct 26, 2017

Finance Guy said:
The Craftsman roll out next year will be USA-made ... they will simultaneously be spending upwards of $100 million to bring all the manufacturing in house.

Source of this info?

MikeTheMedic · Oct 26, 2017

I was just talking to my father about how it's a different world when it comes to legacy tools being passed down generationaly. He received old craftsman (along with a few other industrial US brands), which were passed to my brother mostly. I'm about to have my first child and I'll be passing on mostly Taiwan made tools and those few US made (chanel lock and craftsman randoms) he gave me.

It'd be great if there was something close that old nostalgic brand for hardline tools that falls below SK, Williams and Wright and the Tekton, Gearwrench, and Carlisle that is US made.

I've got to think there are lots of people who'd feel the same, but maybe not possible nor realistic in the new global economy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Bob-B · Oct 26, 2017

If they are going to continue to supply Ace with Craftsman tools, they should tell my local Ace store manager. Last time I was in there, I asked about them honoring the Craftsman warranty. I was told "No way! We don't even know how much longer we'll be selling Craftsman tools."

Poor communication or just blowing smoke, only time will tell.

zendriver · Oct 26, 2017

I like to think I've waltzed around the Corporate dance-floor enough times, to know when it is being sprinkled it with bullcrap and not glitter.

My favorite

we call it a re-Americanized best ever Craftsman platform and what that means is we're starting with a parcel of land overlooking the ocean with no structure on it as an example.

Second favorite

we will not be manufacturing a lot of the product initially, we will be using [a] sourcing model in the first year or two, then we will begin the ramp up manufacturing in that same timeframe. That will help margin and continue to improve them, we will also have launch cost like to do with all major initiatives that will pressure margins as well.”

What? they already have wrench factories. They can't make dies that that stamp wrenches saying "craftsman USA" on them?

The $900 million price for the name is a hoot as well.

They only paid $525 million cash (Only lol), with a promise to pay the rest in 3 years and to pay a small percentage of future sales for 15 years.

Hmmm. 3 years? 15 years? Sears is getting ready to ****-the-bed with bankruptcy at any moment, my guess is after milking the holiday season, one more time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I know Corporate America cares about one thing only and it is not me.

Finance Guy · Oct 26, 2017

zendriver said:
Source of this info?

See http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9NjU2MjMwfENoaWxkSUQ9MzYyMzAzfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1 ... Slide 7

All of "my" information has come from SBD's press releases, investor presentations, and earnings conference calls. They plan to spend $80 million adding capacity for the Craftsman rollout ... $35 million for a new "flagship" factory (that will be operational in 2020), and $45 million adding capacity to their other factories.

See also: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367384&highlight=craftsman

TreePointer · Oct 26, 2017

cdeer001 said:
Take it one step further, how many people will be lined up to replace China Craftsman with USA Craftsman??

Sco Deac said:
If done correctly, it could be a marketing windfall. Every news channel runs a story about people lining up to replace old Sears/Craftsman junk with the newly launched USA assembled quality products. The story will talk about how new Craftsman is honoring the warranty. Not saying warranty abuse, particularly the egregious type you describe, won't be a problem, but they will ascribe a "marketing" value to it.

I agree that it would be good from a PR/marketing standing, and they may have crunched some numbers to determine that honoring the old warranty will be beneficial.

On the other hand, a clean break from the old warranty may be best for CM in the long run. Maybe there will be a two-tier warranty policy. Old CM units will be elegible for partial credit toward purchase of new CM units, and new CM units will get full replacement. Maybe only full credit will be granted at Sears and not Lowes. And so on....

How does one determine the difference between old and new CM units? Maybe there will be a new symbol or logo on the new CM units. That "new-ish" CM logo on their facebook page looks to be a likely candidate. It reminds me of the Superman logo with a squat "C" instead of an "S."

Finance Guy · Oct 26, 2017

zendriver said:
What? they already have wrench factories. They can't make dies that that stamp wrenches saying "craftsman USA" on them?

I wouldn't expect SBD to have lots of spare capacity ... it's a poor use of capital. The manufacturing capacity will now need to be built out.

With regard to the purchase price, both parties had to value the cash flows that will be paid over the stipulated time frame, and both agreed to $887.4 million.

zendriver · Oct 26, 2017

Finance Guy said:
See http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9NjU2MjMwfENoaWxkSUQ9MzYyMzAzfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1 ... Slide 7

All of "my" information has come from SBD's press releases, investor presentations, and earnings conference calls. They plan to spend $80 million adding capacity for the Craftsman rollout ... $35 million for a new "flagship" factory (that will be operational in 2020), and $45 million adding capacity to their other factories.

See also: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367384&highlight=craftsman

I appreciate the info, but really, this statement from this 10-month-old press release, really says it all, at least to me.

You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements

.

Really though, it's true statements like this, that make me think, the whole thing is just s setup, for Corporations to make a quick buck, off the the emotions of the tool buying public.

The company said in a public filing Tuesday that the sale of Craftsman to Stanley Black & Decker could be "voidable, in whole or in part" if a court determines that Sears was insolvent at the time of the deal close or became insolvent because of it, among other conditions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ings-stanley-black-decker-craftsman/99484390/

I see new factories popping up everywhere, but SBC want to wait two years.

For what?

jakemac · Oct 26, 2017

zendriver said:
Really though, it's true statements like this, that make me think, the whole thing is just s setup, for Corporations to make a quick buck, off the the emotions of the tool buying public.

The company said in a public filing Tuesday that the sale of Craftsman to Stanley Black & Decker could be "voidable, in whole or in part" if a court determines that Sears was insolvent at the time of the deal close or became insolvent because of it, among other conditions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ings-stanley-black-decker-craftsman/99484390/

Click to expand...

Customized boilerplate to keep SBD out of legal entanglements that may be due to Sear's Holdings mismanagement and tomfoolery.

zendriver said:
I see new factories popping up everywhere, but SBC want to wait two years.

For what?

Planning, Designs, Estimates, Licensing, Zoning battles, Environmental Studies, Community Input, Permits, Construction, Tooling Installation, Employee Hiring/Vetting/Training, Systems Shakedown, setbacks, etc.
2yrs would be an ambitious timetable. I'd expect it to take longer.

JazzBlueRT · Oct 26, 2017

928'er said:
Ha! Absolutely NOTHING that I need (but I think that was your point...).

LOL, It literally is your only choice for a non top-teir branded wrench that is Made in the USA.

Moparman390 · Oct 26, 2017

For all those arguing with Zen, I tend to agree with you guys, you have made some sound arguments.

zendriver · Oct 27, 2017

I could be completely wrong on this, and it's fine if I am.

There's always plenty to talk from everywhere on "re-shoring" but it seems like it usually ends up being just that. Or something like "Assembled America with global components."

At the end of the day these companies have the bottom line, a global marketplace to compete in, (Who don't give a **** where something is made. )and shareholders if they have to keep happy.

Perhaps it will work out just fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

finn · Oct 27, 2017

Moparman390 said:
For all those arguing with Zen, I tend to agree with you guys, you have made some sound arguments.

The quote re caution about forward looking statements is standard boilerplate issued at every investor conference call on every quarterly shareholder meeting or press conference I have attended in the last twenty or so years.

I don’t see the conspiracy here, but i’ not much of a tinfoiler, either.

firebirdparts · Oct 27, 2017

This is normal current business thought. Craftsman, the brand name has meaning, but the products do not. They can put the name on anything and there is value in that.

To me, that only makes sense if you're stupid. But it is how modern business works.

and it's not a quick buck they're trying to make. They would like to be able to value up whatever they put the name on forever.

Finance Guy · Oct 27, 2017

finn said:
The quote re caution about forward looking statements is standard boilerplate issued at every investor conference call on every quarterly shareholder meeting or press conference I have attended in the last twenty or so years.

I will also vouch for this ... we put "Forward Looking Statements" language in every press release, investor presentation and even our Management Discussion & Analysis (MD&A).

finn said:
I don’t see the conspiracy here, but i’ not much of a tinfoiler, either.

upsidedownone · Oct 27, 2017

Finance Guy said:
See http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9NjU2MjMwfENoaWxkSUQ9MzYyMzAzfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1 ... Slide 7

All of "my" information has come from SBD's press releases, investor presentations, and earnings conference calls. They plan to spend $80 million adding capacity for the Craftsman rollout ... $35 million for a new "flagship" factory (that will be operational in 2020), and $45 million adding capacity to their other factories.

See also: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367384&highlight=craftsman

Am I the only one who thinks $35 million isn't going to get you that big of a factory nowadays?
Note that for both of these, they don't specify they will be built in the US/adding capacity in the US (unless I missed that somewhere). Not saying it won't happen, but they seem to be very carefully wording this release. They make statements like "re-americanizing" intentionally, because that's one of the things that matters to the people who are actually paying attention to these press releases. They don't outright say, " We are bringing production of Craftsman back to the USA!" Again, not saying it won't happen, but it very well could be less of a complete overhaul than we'd like it to be.

Finance Guy · Oct 27, 2017

upsidedownone said:
Am I the only one who thinks $35 million isn't going to get you that big of a factory nowadays?
Note that for both of these, they don't specify they will be built in the US/adding capacity in the US (unless I missed that somewhere). Not saying it won't happen, but they seem to be very carefully wording this release. They make statements like "re-americanizing" intentionally, because that's one of the things that matters to the people who are actually paying attention to these press releases. They don't outright say, " We are bring production of Craftsman back to the USA!" Again, not saying it won't happen, but it very well could be less of a complete overhaul than we'd like it to be.

“To accommodate future growth we intend to increase our manufacturing capacity in the United States, consistent with our philosophy to make where we sell wherever possible. This includes plans to open a new high tech manufacturing facility in the US, location TBD, which will leverage industry 4.0 techniques.

We will also increase capacity and employment at certain of our existing US facilities. In the very short-term we plan to source products similar to Sears' current model. Manufacturing in the US is not new to Stanley Black & Decker. We have made products here since our founding almost 175 years ago. We operate close to 30 plants in the US today, including 11 in our tools and storage business with some 3,000 employees. In fact, we have increased our US tools manufacturing employment level by 40% over the last three years.

While manufacturing in the US is not always an obvious choice to some, it makes good business sense for us. We know our end-users generally like to buy products made in their own countries, especially professionals in the trades. It also improves logistics and distribution as well as environmental impact. We already manufacture many products cost effectively in this country, and in some cases we've been able to bring manufacturing back to the US at a lower cost than producing overseas.

There are only two major tool companies greater than $1 billion in revenues in the world with an extensive US manufacturing footprint, and we are one of them. And this transaction will only expand our presence here (the other is a very high end company that specializes in the industrial and automotive repair markets), and this footprint is not only appealing to US consumers and end-users but also will be very helpful to us in dealing with whatever the outcome of the China/Mexico trade relationship uncertainty that is pervasive in today's environment. In addition it also enhances our supply chain efficiencies, lowers distribution costs, improves quality control and reduces our carbon footprint.” -Jim Loree, January 5, 2017

upsidedownone · Oct 27, 2017

Finance Guy said:
“To accommodate future growth we intend to increase our manufacturing capacity in the United States, consistent with our philosophy to make where we sell wherever possible. This includes plans to open a new high tech manufacturing facility in the US, location TBD, which will leverage industry 4.0 techniques.

We will also increase capacity and employment at certain of our existing US facilities. In the very short-term we plan to source products similar to Sears' current model. Manufacturing in the US is not new to Stanley Black & Decker. We have made products here since our founding almost 175 years ago. We operate close to 30 plants in the US today, including 11 in our tools and storage business with some 3,000 employees. In fact, we have increased our US tools manufacturing employment level by 40% over the last three years.

While manufacturing in the US is not always an obvious choice to some, it makes good business sense for us. We know our end-users generally like to buy products made in their own countries, especially professionals in the trades. It also improves logistics and distribution as well as environmental impact. We already manufacture many products cost effectively in this country, and in some cases we've been able to bring manufacturing back to the US at a lower cost than producing overseas.

There are only two major tool companies greater than $1 billion in revenues in the world with an extensive US manufacturing footprint, and we are one of them. And this transaction will only expand our presence here (the other is a very high end company that specializes in the industrial and automotive repair markets), and this footprint is not only appealing to US consumers and end-users but also will be very helpful to us in dealing with whatever the outcome of the China/Mexico trade relationship uncertainty that is pervasive in today's environment. In addition it also enhances our supply chain efficiencies, lowers distribution costs, improves quality control and reduces our carbon footprint.” -Jim Loree, January 5, 2017

Ok, interesting, didn't catch that. Thanks for the info. Well, who knows, maybe they actually will re-establish themselves as a quality US tool manufacturing brand.

Brownsfan · Oct 27, 2017

I am looking forward to seeing some new Craftsman products in Lowe's and other outlets. It will be nice to have more choices especially at Lowe's. I hope to see a tool department like Sears once had. That would be great. Not holding my breath though.

jakemac · Oct 28, 2017

Most likely, what you'll see is an 8' planogram display with a few larger items stacked on the floor off to the side.
Take a look at what the current Craftsman display at your local Ace Hdwr. looks like and that will give you a clue as to how the current retail marketing strategies play out.
Shopping a' la' Sheeple.

HanShotFirst · Oct 28, 2017

MikeTheMedic said:
I was just talking to my father about how it's a different world when it comes to legacy tools being passed down generationaly. He received old craftsman (along with a few other industrial US brands), which were passed to my brother mostly. I'm about to have my first child and I'll be passing on mostly Taiwan made tools and those few US made (chanel lock and craftsman randoms) he gave me.

It'd be great if there was something close that old nostalgic brand for hardline tools that falls below SK, Williams and Wright and the Tekton, Gearwrench, and Carlisle that is US made.

I've got to think there are lots of people who'd feel the same, but maybe not possible nor realistic in the new global economy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Pick up used tools. About half of my SK sockets I picked up used and pretty cheap. Since my original SK's came from my grandfather, I wanted stuff that kinda matched his. So a little "patina" from decades of use makes these sockets look really cool to my eye. They were originally high polish chrome, but now they look kinda like the more matte finishes...and I for one like it. My "new" SK sockets are SK-Wayne, so that set was made between 1962-1969. Those are much shinier chrome.

Point being, handed down tools need not be perfect...kinda makes one think they were never used. And I didn't want unused hand-me-downs. I wanted to know that grandpa used them, and used them good.

Sure technology has changed, but an excellent socket/ratchet set from the 1950's is still a damn good set of tools. Forging and broaching are basically flawless. Chrome plating was pretty much perfect back in the old days as well. And while metalurgically the newer stuff is stronger, the old stuff is plenty strong (and still stronger than most Pacific Rim import stuff). My 1/2" 1940's era SK ratchet has broken free stuff that broke much newer ratchets...and not cheap stuff, I'm talking good Pac-Rim, and even one 1990's era SnapOn. Meaning, while there are some slick alloys available today, there were some seriously bad *** alloys available pre and post WWII.

My youngest son wrenches on motorcycles like I do, and he will be getting my tools when I'm gone, or no longer can or want to turn wrenches anymore. And I can see him giving it to his son in about 70 years...and I'll bet over 90% of the sockets will still be original, as will the 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" ratchets.

The "legacy" of my tools is something I think about when I buy tools these days. No, I don't always "need" a US tools, but I want my son to inherit something he will think is really special. I also want him to think dad had good taste in tools. Or if he hates my SK sockets/ratchets, at least he'll respect that while I didn't prefer his preferred brand, I did buy quality! And hopefully the value doesn't change much, so he can sell what I give him, and it will go a long way toward getting him what he wants.

SBD's Update On Craftsman, DeWalt/Flexvolt

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