Does anyone know a good way to find a property marker? It's near the creek behind our garage and house. I found one side just fine, but can't find the other corner property marker on the other side. Trying to find it myself and avoid paying a company to come find it.
How to Find Property Marker Behind House
- Thread starter bmsemple1
- Start date
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Metal Detector if you don't have anything to go off of...
Do you have any survey documentation to go off of? If so your GPS.
If you know who did the survey you can usually go to their office and get a copy of the plat and such and if you ask nicely they won't even charge you for it. From there you can probably triangulate it.
Do you have any survey documentation to go off of? If so your GPS.
If you know who did the survey you can usually go to their office and get a copy of the plat and such and if you ask nicely they won't even charge you for it. From there you can probably triangulate it.
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steveo1o9
Well-known member
Do you know for sure the corner is marked? some aren't. If the property isn't too wide grab a 300' tape and the known width of the lot and this will get you a general area of the stake. Then a metal detector might be needed from there.
Plus, a very long tape measure or wheel. Go to your township office and ask for the property dimensions. If you know anyone in real estate,they can get the property dimensions as well.
Just did this, took about 20 minutes on a 3/4 acre lot.
steveo1o9
Well-known member
Some counties also have online parcel mapper/viewer which usually list the lot dimensions to the nearest foot or so. Good enough for a tape or wheel.
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
+1
Of course, if i just walk around I will trip on it. Take a tape and go to where a squared of corner should be. Get you close.
My property is weird. It's corners are marked by descriptions like " 40 feet from iron rod driven into the ground". I have hired a surveyed to mark the corners. He's been out twice but has yet to drive new rods. Excuses, excuses.
Falcon67
Well-known member
HF Metal detector, long tape measure or rope. Run a line across the front pins then develop a 90 degree line and follow it back. I have 6 or 8 located here, same method. Two are missing - one probably lost when someone put in a fence post, the other probably lost when a utility set a power pole.
garagelogician
Well-known member
I live in a subdivision that was platted in the 90's. Only one corner was in place, the rest were long gone. My best friend works for the county engineering department, and we both went to school for surveying.
We reset corners in the calculated positions using GPS, but they are not capped so they aren't "official". They all check out within 0.05-ft with the neighbor's pins. It was close enough to get the city to sign off on my privacy fence (which is built 1-ft off the property line).
Not something the average Joe should do with a tape and wheel though. If you are missing corners, get them put in by a licensed surveyor.
We reset corners in the calculated positions using GPS, but they are not capped so they aren't "official". They all check out within 0.05-ft with the neighbor's pins. It was close enough to get the city to sign off on my privacy fence (which is built 1-ft off the property line).
Not something the average Joe should do with a tape and wheel though. If you are missing corners, get them put in by a licensed surveyor.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Oh, if you aren't sure of the exact area of the corner of your lot, you can look on Google Maps / Earth. Sometimes you can see features from the sky that you don't notice on the ground and can narrow down your search area.
driftpin
Well-known member
Try adding your location in your info area under your screen name. That would help get you info specific to your area.
The property appraiser for your county should have information available online, including plots of record, legal descriptions, plat maps, and links to the clerk of the courts for whatever you need to get your property description. As has been mentioned, a survey will give you specific geographic points, though there are undoubtedly some old 'metes and bounds' descriptions of the lot dimensions. You got a current survey done when you bought the property, yes? Then you have your legal description, and the hard points of the boundaries.
I suppose that in some areas where the population is very low, there may not be online access to this information because of the limitation of funding to put things online that are older.
The property appraiser for your county should have information available online, including plots of record, legal descriptions, plat maps, and links to the clerk of the courts for whatever you need to get your property description. As has been mentioned, a survey will give you specific geographic points, though there are undoubtedly some old 'metes and bounds' descriptions of the lot dimensions. You got a current survey done when you bought the property, yes? Then you have your legal description, and the hard points of the boundaries.
I suppose that in some areas where the population is very low, there may not be online access to this information because of the limitation of funding to put things online that are older.
mcbane
Well-known member
Try going to your county assessors office. Many counties will let you copy the parcel map that was recorded when your land was subdivided. Just about every parcel in the US, if that is where you are, has been subdivided multiple times and the county will have the latest map. The map will show dimensions of your parcel and note what sort of marker was placed at each corner. Note that some corners will have no marker placed or will have a marker at a specified offset from the actual corner. If you find an iron pipe marker with surveyors tag you need that info to determine whether you are at the corner or maybe some bearing and distance from the corner.
As has been suggested above, the most reliable method is to call a surveyor. Be prepared to spend serious $$$ if you do.
As has been suggested above, the most reliable method is to call a surveyor. Be prepared to spend serious $$$ if you do.
finn
Well-known member
If there are steel pins, a metal detector will locate them.
Not all lotsurveys have metal pins, though, and a survey isn’t cheap if there is no close pin for the surveyor to work off of as a benchmark.
Not all lotsurveys have metal pins, though, and a survey isn’t cheap if there is no close pin for the surveyor to work off of as a benchmark.
Find your plat or parcel map do you have all the corners but 1? If so get string in lenths you need from the two known corners and find where your missing pin should be. If you cant find it by kicking around then may need metal detector as others have said. Worked for me to find my one missing corner. Was about 7 feet from where neighbor claimed it was. To the better for me.
ard
Well-known member
Good advice above.
Just want to add that you shouldn't assume there IS a marker- might not have been placed OR someone might have pulled it out, or got washed away, etc.
When I was putting in a structure, county wanted the property line marked by a surveyor. Screw that...
So I dropped three 36 inch wood stakes on the property line, tied a piece of plastic tape to each. Looks EXACTLY like how local surveyors mark corners and fence lines...
(Structure was 35 ft away, with a 30ft setback, so no risk...)
Just want to add that you shouldn't assume there IS a marker- might not have been placed OR someone might have pulled it out, or got washed away, etc.
When I was putting in a structure, county wanted the property line marked by a surveyor. Screw that...
So I dropped three 36 inch wood stakes on the property line, tied a piece of plastic tape to each. Looks EXACTLY like how local surveyors mark corners and fence lines...
(Structure was 35 ft away, with a 30ft setback, so no risk...)Mikeske
Well-known member
I know where all four corners are for my lot. The back two are steel rods and I located the first and then went to the other side of my property and located the 2nd. The front ones of my property the north one is buried under our private dead end road and a surveyor showed it to me as he was doing a survey for another property and put a paint mark for it. He stated the steel rod was located under the blacktop and he used a metal detector for it. The fourth one was located 3 years ago when a new neighbor was building his house and needed a non-exclusive easement for his new home. The easement already existed for the property immediately behind my place for one neighbor but the easement was a added sentence to the north side power easement. A new easement was written up that meets the current standards by this guys own cost.
I had trouble locating my markers. Only because the neighbor has moved them and replaced with her own markers. Long story. When our house first went on the market, the listing agent was showing the house and found the neighbor digging up the markers and pounding her own in. No joke. She was mad with the builder of the house and the placement of the house on the property. She comes onto my property to get to "hers" to mow a 10 foot section that is really mine. She even says my driveway is on her land. She has pounded sharp metal spikes in the ground that my kids have tripped over. I asked nicely to remove them before someone gets hurt. That was two years ago...
nolimits76
Well-known member
If you're still in this quandary, I would address it sooner rather than later. Your neighbor coming over to mow a 10' section can be counted as adverse possession and she could legally become the land owner of YOUR land.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/adverse-possession-trespassers-become-owners-46934.html
Probably in any situation like this, the first step should be an effort to PEACEFULLY resolve the matter with the assaulting neighbor. You've asked her to remove the spikes but have you really talked to her about the matter? As silly as it sounds, sometimes people's complaints or frustrations need to be heard and empathized with to make them go away. I agree you shouldn't have to, but if it works it's a small amount of BS to deal with vs spending money and possibly going through litigation.
In all cases of land, it's clear to know your boundaries. The few bucks spent up front on a survey to legally define everything is worth it in the long run to (hopefully) avoid confusing situations like these later.
nh_yota
Well-known member
Just remember two things:
1. Surveyors are not immune from making mistakes so the property marker may not even be in the right place.
2. Surveys/maps can be wrong even if they are official city documents so the property marker/actual boundary may not be exactly where it is according to the map.
My father has dealt with the above situations more than once.
1. Surveyors are not immune from making mistakes so the property marker may not even be in the right place.
2. Surveys/maps can be wrong even if they are official city documents so the property marker/actual boundary may not be exactly where it is according to the map.
My father has dealt with the above situations more than once.
driftpin
Well-known member
You have to address this immediately! Two years has elapsed? Was there any development that was done? The possibility of encroachment is a huge issue!
nh_yota
Well-known member
They're not expensive either.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Adverse possession is a little more complicated than that, but I agree he should deal with it sooner rather than later.
Get a surveyor out to re-stake, TAKE LOTS PICTURES and measure distance from nearby objects where he stakes them. If neighbor gives grief, call the police. If necessary set some posts in concrete next to stakes to prevent her idiocy. If she does something again, take her to small claims court for cost of survey and such...
Get a surveyor out to re-stake, TAKE LOTS PICTURES and measure distance from nearby objects where he stakes them. If neighbor gives grief, call the police. If necessary set some posts in concrete next to stakes to prevent her idiocy. If she does something again, take her to small claims court for cost of survey and such...
No knowing your situation, one can only speculate. I get that you have to live next to this person but her moving the pins is perpetrating fraud, of which you could become the victim of. Her mowing 10' of your land is not acceptable unless you have a agreement and return the favor to her and mow 10' of her land. I get crazy neighbors as we had one and NOBODY like her, good thing she moved.
The land we purchased to build our new house on a couple years ago, the rear neighbor just decided he would put up a fence wherever he wanted and fenced off about 1.5 acres of the property we were going to buy (along with the 2 10 acre parcels on both sides). The land is fully wooded (the way we like it) and we did not know he had done this, nor did the land owner, until we had a pin and post survey done. That opened a whole can of worms that almost made us walk away from the sale. He refused to move the fence and insisted they sell him the acre and a half he fenced off. Good thing was the fence was only there for a year or so and the seller (unknown to us) had a pretty big tax lean on the property and the threatened to name the fence guy as a partial owner for the lean. He removed his fence pretty quick...
After all that we bought the property and had a full property line survey done and have pins marking every 100' along the property line. I went and drove a t-post at each pin just so I know where they are.
Hub
Falcon67
Well-known member
Well - $560 to 1000 or so depending. Small 65x120 lot around $650. That was in 2010, probably a lot more now. Multiple properties, price goes way up.
The OP has not said why he needed it ... he may be curious or he may be wanting to install something.
Also -- it's quite possible that it's not there ... you technically don't have to mark it all ... it was common to only have one marker. They use a big metal detector to try and find.
Marking and survey work has become more complex as technology has allowed for greater accuracy -- it's the old "since we can you are required to do" I just went through this at my property in PA .... I had an old survey of my property (not stamped) .. and actually had a stamped 20 year old one for my neighbors property that the township did and paid for when my neighbor placed his property in conservation. We mapped it out on the ground and could not find any of mine .. although we did find one at the neighbors.
Anyway -- Was laying out a driveway and buried propane tank ... my township is a royal pain. I could not take a chance and be inside the setback. It cost me almost $3700 to get the markers .. based on some crazy satellite formula and master reference points. The funny thing is they actually found a really old stone marker about 2' down -- exactly on the correct spot of one of the corners .... all the other rods were off. My survey was 5' off on one side (I had 5' more property)
Also -- it's quite possible that it's not there ... you technically don't have to mark it all ... it was common to only have one marker. They use a big metal detector to try and find.
Marking and survey work has become more complex as technology has allowed for greater accuracy -- it's the old "since we can you are required to do" I just went through this at my property in PA .... I had an old survey of my property (not stamped) .. and actually had a stamped 20 year old one for my neighbors property that the township did and paid for when my neighbor placed his property in conservation. We mapped it out on the ground and could not find any of mine .. although we did find one at the neighbors.
Anyway -- Was laying out a driveway and buried propane tank ... my township is a royal pain. I could not take a chance and be inside the setback. It cost me almost $3700 to get the markers .. based on some crazy satellite formula and master reference points. The funny thing is they actually found a really old stone marker about 2' down -- exactly on the correct spot of one of the corners .... all the other rods were off. My survey was 5' off on one side (I had 5' more property)
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ptgarcia
Well-known member
I'm a PLS in California, and can tell you surveying can be quite complex. When performing a boundary survey there is typically a lot more work done in the office than in the field. A surveyor has to research the subject property, which usually means researching the adjoining properties, too. This means going over any available maps and plats (there aren't always reference maps available - not all land has been surveyed, even in places as densely populated as CA), deeds, conveyances, dedications, condemnations, legal descriptions, lot line adjustments, court findings, etc. etc. Most surveyors are college educated and professionals are licensed for a reason. Surveying is not just turning angles and shooting distances. The toughest part of the job is done behind the scenes.
I talk with her in a nice way often. At least once a month. I'd like to keep it civil with her as one day i'd love to buy her property. 28 acres. She claims she had it surveyed a while back. But no paper work or anything like that. I checked into surveying it and it was gonna be around $1800. I can't justify that right now. Her family used to own all the land that our neighborhood is in. In the 60's they split it off and she kept her 28 acres. Her family has grown up on that land and they still think the neighbor hood is theirs. She is the only one left and feels society is out to get her. She is a odd one. No connection to the outside world besides her job. No phone, internet, paper or anything. I will get it surveyed at some point. She says the spikes were from the surveyor so they can't be taken out. I nicely said no surveyor would ever put those like that due to huge liability. They use flags and pounded in spikes. She got upset when I busted out the metal detector and showed her the original spikes had been removed. you can still see where she dug holes to find the original buried ones.
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
If you really know where the original spikes were, just go pound new ones in. If you are nervous, offset it one foot on your side. Your land, just put your own stakes in.
I went through this before building my pole building. I rented a metal detector and dug a bunch of small holes with no luck. I then hired a Surveyor to set new pins. Come to find out my pins were gone. The Surveyor found one that was all bent up and laying horizontal under the ground. It cost me $500 to have a 60’x160’ flat lot surveyed and new pins set. It was well worth it because the Surveyor sent a new map to the court house and one to me for everyone to keep on record. Also note that the Surveyor has a “pin finder” rather than a normal metal detector. It is designed to find vertical pins in the ground. It looks like a straight stick.
johnnyradiant
Well-known member
Earlier in this thread someone mentioned using the municipal's GIS map online if they have it available. That'll get you close enough for a friendly reference or some guidance to locate an existing pin. Just don't use the satellite photos with lot lines to determine your line. Those photos overlayed with property lines can be out by several feet.
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
To original post, and the comments on the disputed properly line.
We bought our home in the city, and the neighbors thought they owned more along one side. We knew we were building a garage in back, and had a surveyor come to mark out the lines for that and of course we had them mark all 4 sides of the lot. Conveniently, the neighbors were home when this happened, and they got to see the placement of the disputed lot line. Sadly, they were very upset, because they supposed we called for the surveyor just about the dispute, and they considered it un-neighborly. But eventually they got over it. And we now know definitively where the lot line is. I also carefully put all the fences just inside the lot line so I own and completely control them.
At any rate, my tip would be to have a gentle conversation with the neighbor before the surveyor comes, and to invite them to witness the placing of the markers. If they are actually good neighbors, they might even chip in a bit for the survey, as it is their border too.
We bought our home in the city, and the neighbors thought they owned more along one side. We knew we were building a garage in back, and had a surveyor come to mark out the lines for that and of course we had them mark all 4 sides of the lot. Conveniently, the neighbors were home when this happened, and they got to see the placement of the disputed lot line. Sadly, they were very upset, because they supposed we called for the surveyor just about the dispute, and they considered it un-neighborly. But eventually they got over it. And we now know definitively where the lot line is. I also carefully put all the fences just inside the lot line so I own and completely control them.
At any rate, my tip would be to have a gentle conversation with the neighbor before the surveyor comes, and to invite them to witness the placing of the markers. If they are actually good neighbors, they might even chip in a bit for the survey, as it is their border too.
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cdestuck
Well-known member
My rear pins I dug a nice hole, filled with concrete and set the pin into the concrete, leaving the top of it just proud of the concrete by 1/2''. It'll take a lot more work than just pulling out a pin to mess with me.
Falcon67
Well-known member
The pin in the driveway of the old house is driven down some, then the hole dug out and a brick with holes in it placed over the pin and the hole backfilled. Made for a sturdy location and an easy find when needed.
I agree that part of the survey cost is paperwork. Which is good because if it's filed with the country, you should be able to go back and get a copy or find a copy for a property you might be purchasing. If you can find an official copy, can save you $ if the bank/etc accepts the previous recorded survey.
If the OP has any pins that are in the original place and could find a copy of an older survey, he could for sure get close to where the missing pins should be. That and and official looking paper from county records might be "selling points" with the neighbor. Hard to ignore that a tape marking 100' says the pin should be HERE and not over THERE.
I agree that part of the survey cost is paperwork. Which is good because if it's filed with the country, you should be able to go back and get a copy or find a copy for a property you might be purchasing. If you can find an official copy, can save you $ if the bank/etc accepts the previous recorded survey.
If the OP has any pins that are in the original place and could find a copy of an older survey, he could for sure get close to where the missing pins should be. That and and official looking paper from county records might be "selling points" with the neighbor. Hard to ignore that a tape marking 100' says the pin should be HERE and not over THERE.
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Falcon67
Well-known member
LOL, I forgot - we did get "busted" rooting around a house we considered buying. The lady across the street almost called the police. She came over and asked what we through we were doing with a shovel and a metal detector. I showed her a copy of the property survey and a copy of the GIS and said "something isn't right. Then pointed to the front pin and the fence running south then turning west, noting the fence was on the next property by almost 4'. Talked to the neighbor about possibly buying the disputed fence line to make the property whole and they said "No", for whatever reason. That was the end of that - no sale.
The house has since sold at least twice and I guess nobody really cares because no fence was ever moved.
The house has since sold at least twice and I guess nobody really cares because no fence was ever moved.