3 Proposals Steel Building 30X50 decisions must be made

wornoutoldman · Apr 17, 2018

Greetings all,

The time has arrived. I am now in a position to build the workshop/garage I've been dreaming about for many years. I have spoken with at least a dozen companies in the last 2 years as well as followed along with all the great builds on this site. That said I'm down to 3 proposals and wondered "what would my GJ brethren choose"?

A little background info. The building will be 30X50X10 (or 30X48X10) I will use it for auto/motorcycle repair/restoration. It will be built behind the house on my property in Northern WI. I have just a hair under 8 acres, heavily wooded, and the build area is already cleared and leveled.

Here are the quotes Hi-Low:

1) Freedom Steel

When I spoke with the rep there it sounded like I had just called a boiler room. Bunch of fast-talking operators with the spin machine on high. What really turned me off was when they dismissed their competition. NOT gonna go with them but thought others would be interested in seeing the quote.

2) Worldwide Steel Buildings

I had been talking with John Turner here for almost 2 years he has always kept in touch and been very informative.

3) Strat-O-Span

I have to be honest due to costs this is looking most attractive. However, I am concerned about the insulation aspect after seeing this:

My plans (and budget) include hydronic floor/wood boiler, full electric & lighting, 2 post lift, Vaporblast cabinet and pro parts washer.

I am NOT considering a wood structure.

Your thoughts are important to me. Thanks for reading! :bowdown:

cvairwerks · Apr 17, 2018

None of them give me the warm fuzzys at all. The first quote is quite lacking in details. The second is wood purlins and girts, with no mention of the column materials. The last, charges extra for stamped plans.
Building heights and roof pitches vary between vendors too, along with snow and wind loadings.

If it were me, I'd be doing a lot more looking. You need the quotes to be the same for a good comparison.

tonyciambrone · Apr 17, 2018

Your contact information is still visible. If you need to block it out I would take those photos down ASAP and white out them, or tape over.

wornoutoldman · Apr 17, 2018

cvairwerks said:
None of them give me the warm fuzzys at all. The first quote is quite lacking in details. Yes, they were ridiculous. The second is wood purlins and girts, with no mention of the column materials. They have that info on their website. The building is what they call a steel/wood hybrid. The salesman suggested that this was the best type of building considering the climate and it's claimed insulating superiority. The "insulation" pic is from Worldwide. Basically the left pic is the competition (Strat-O-Span) and the right Worldwide. The last, charges extra for stamped plans. Good catch! Thank you for that. My county does not require engineered plans.
Building heights and roof pitches vary between vendors too, along with snow and wind loadings. All of the buildings were quoted for my areas snow and wind loads. Just had about two feet dumped in the last couple of days.

If it were me, I'd be doing a lot more looking. You need the quotes to be the same for a good comparison. They were all given the same information. This is what I received. I am open to suggestions from other as far as vendors.

tonyciambrone said:
Your contact information is still visible. If you need to block it out I would take those photos down ASAP and white out them, or tape over.

Not really concerned about it. But thanks for looking out for me. I appreciate it!

Radix2 · Apr 17, 2018

I think the second proposal will get you a better /easier building to finish out...both due to the insulation issue you posted, but also because of the ease to work with the wood and its position for finishing. 4:12 roof will look better. I'd try to do overhangs if possible with budget.

It sounds like with your hydronic heat and all that you are planning to finish it off pretty nice over time, you want to make it as easy as possible now. Overtime, the budget will get better.

readhead · Apr 17, 2018

Do you have a design that you are providing each supplier? It should have roof snow, wind load requirements, code year ( if permit is required), interior height requirements, roof pitch, window and door locations, insulation requirements, accessories such as gutters, overhangs, soffits. How much collateral load will be required in the roof?

Have you contacted any local suppliers? As a metal building provider I can usually meet or beat any internet pricing. Plus I can talk to the customer face to face and visit the site and make recommendations. People just assume that internet prices will be less. Of all the builders you mentioned Strato-Span is the only one that actually builds their own product. The others are brokers. Strato-Span is limited on design because of the way they construct the building. That may not be an issue for you. Make sure they can meet the wind and snow requirements for your location.

robertlynk · Apr 17, 2018

First off be carefull of people like General/Anthem and a few other that are actually brokers.They sell varco pruden.if someone says other wise then all my drawing were stolen than because they say vp
Second don't give a deposit until you are ready to commit
Second don't give a deposit by ach. use mail or credit card
Get all the specs together first. eave height, rain gutter get them if no solid surface around the building, rollup door height width and placement, man door placement, over hang, pitch, crane haunches etc.
If you don't they charge you engineering fee after they receive the deposit.
you are better off using a general contractor that does the for a living than by yourself. the other thing to think about is insulation. plumbing, drains, toilets, a lift and placement in relation to the walls for overhead clearance, etc.
Think about every minute detail before you talk to them.You will need a forklift to unload.
You have 2 hrs to unload by puc regulations.
Take the time to inventory everthing.
Measure the doors if you order over size
My 60*40*10 costs were (should have went with 14' plus wall height)
and 14 ' doors
building 26000
engineering 1000
grading did it myself
concrete 17000 (6 years ago when mud was double. don't use robertsons unless you spec as being tested)
Check the square of the anchor bolts and foundation befor the concrete is poured this is a precision assembly
insulation 5000
Sheet metal and insulation installation 7000 included squaring up the frame after i erected it
electrical aprox. 3000 me doing the work
rollup doors 2 16 x 9 x2" insulated 3000 w/ liftmaster 3800's
permits 1500
forklift 300
get a complete quote
If I think of more I will let you know.
This is a result of my problems and experiance with my building

robertlynk · Apr 17, 2018

This is the insulation system I went with.
https://thermaldesign.com/products/category/simple_saver/a_simple_choice

robertlynk · Apr 17, 2018

Stay away from hybrid systems the wood moves more than steel do to humidity and the screws work loose

tre873 · Apr 17, 2018

My shop is built like the Strat-o-Span design and was built by the previous owner and is 60x54x16. The insulation can sag even more if there is a leak in the roof. I would highly suggest using insulation that has "rip-stop". It's a criss cross pattern of threads that create diamond shapes in the insulation. It's purpose is to keep any tears in the plastic facing to a minimum. Once the tear in the insulation hits a thread, it stops. There are several rips in my insulation from accidentally hitting it with various items.

Edited to add:
Have the builder/erector put a purling at 48", it's easier to line the walls with plywood/sheet metal. I'm having to add a purling to put up 4 ft metal wainscoting in mine. The wainscoting helps to keep the insulation from getting torn up down low.

NotOrganized · Apr 17, 2018

Go taller if you can. My first building had 10ft side walls. 8ft doors in front and a 10 ft door in back. Too many times I had something taller than either door. After 20 years I finally added a second with 16ft walls. Never again will something too tall not fit.

mcbane · Apr 17, 2018

I have been shopping for a steel building too. My best 2 quotes include all loads to be met by the design and include 3d perspective sketches that show structure dimensions and locations of window and door openings. So I would be worried about a quote that isnt showing a sketch of what you are buying and instead includes only a bill of materials that is hard to visualize. The quotes also discuss how much insulation and whether there are thermal break requirements between sheet metal and secondary framing.

Perhaps ask all of your bidders if they can provide more detail?

wornoutoldman · Apr 18, 2018

readhead said:
Do you have a design that you are providing each supplier? The conversation thus far has been more of a "this is where I live and I want these features in the building" general idea/quote. It should have roof snow, wind load requirements, code year ( if permit is required), interior height requirements, roof pitch, window and door locations, insulation requirements, accessories such as gutters, overhangs, soffits. Moving forward I will supply the vendor with details of what exactly I am expecting. How much collateral load will be required in the roof? Not sure I understand your question but everyone I've spoken to has quoted for my counties snow/wind load requirements.

Have you contacted any local suppliers? My area has dozens of Pole Barn builders. None working in metal. I probably should have mentioned That I will be building this myself with some additional (paid) laborers. I have the time and desire. Plus I'm frugal almost to a fault. I'm confident I can pull this off and any mistakes made in the construction are on me. As a metal building provider, I can usually meet or beat any internet pricing. Plus I can talk to the customer face to face and visit the site and make recommendations. People just assume that internet prices will be less. Of all the builders you mentioned Strato-Span is the only one that actually builds their own product. The others are brokers. Strato-Span is limited on design because of the way they construct the building. That may not be an issue for you. Make sure they can meet the wind and snow requirements for your location. I am happy to hear this as I am leaning towards the SOS.

robertlynk said:
First off be carefull of people like General/Anthem and a few other that are actually brokers.They sell varco pruden.if someone says other wise then all my drawing were stolen than because they say vp
Second don't give a deposit until you are ready to commit
Second don't give a deposit by ach. use mail or credit card
Get all the specs together first. eave height, rain gutter get them if no solid surface around the building, rollup door height width and placement, man door placement, over hang, pitch, crane haunches etc.
If you don't they charge you engineering fee after they receive the deposit.
you are better off using a general contractor that does the for a living than by yourself. the other thing to think about is insulation. plumbing, drains, toilets, a lift and placement in relation to the walls for overhead clearance, etc.
Think about every minute detail before you talk to them.You will need a forklift to unload.
You have 2 hrs to unload by puc regulations.
Take the time to inventory everthing.
Measure the doors if you order over size
My 60*40*10 costs were (should have went with 14' plus wall height)
and 14 ' doors
building 26000
engineering 1000
grading did it myself
concrete 17000 (6 years ago when mud was double. don't use robertsons unless you spec as being tested)
Check the square of the anchor bolts and foundation befor the concrete is poured this is a precision assembly
insulation 5000
Sheet metal and insulation installation 7000 included squaring up the frame after i erected it
electrical aprox. 3000 me doing the work
rollup doors 2 16 x 9 x2" insulated 3000 w/ liftmaster 3800's
permits 1500
forklift 300
get a complete quote
If I think of more I will let you know.
This is a result of my problems and experiance with my building

Lots of good info there. Thank you!

tre873 said:
My shop is built like the Strat-o-Span design and was built by the previous owner and is 60x54x16. The insulation can sag even more if there is a leak in the roof. I would highly suggest using insulation that has "rip-stop". It's a criss cross pattern of threads that create diamond shapes in the insulation. It's purpose is to keep any tears in the plastic facing to a minimum. Once the tear in the insulation hits a thread, it stops. There are several rips in my insulation from accidentally hitting it with various items. Revisiting the insulation issue has me thinking of using polyiso instead of what the vendor offers. I just finished my garage with it this past fall and quite pleased with the results.

NotOrganized said:
Go taller if you can. My first building had 10ft side walls. 8ft doors in front and a 10 ft door in back. Too many times I had something taller than either door. After 20 years I finally added a second with 16ft walls. Never again will something too tall not fit. When I started looking at this in 2015 I was all about 16ft walls. My real concern is fitting the lift(s) don't plan on parking RVs, Semis or other tall equipment inside. I do however expect detailed specs (interior & exterior) from the vendor before I commit..

mcbane said:
I have been shopping for a steel building too. My best 2 quotes include all loads to be met by the design and include 3d perspective sketches that show structure dimensions and locations of window and door openings. So I would be worried about a quote that isnt showing a sketch of what you are buying and instead includes only a bill of materials that is hard to visualize. The quotes also discuss how much insulation and whether there are thermal break requirements between sheet metal and secondary framing. Who are you working with if you don't mind me asking?

Perhaps ask all of your bidders if they can provide more detail? These quotes are only astarting point.

346ci · Apr 18, 2018

I'm fixing to order the steel for my 40x40x14, got a quote from Arco out of GA and Searcy in TN. I got a quote from champion for a turn key building also, was higher than me subbing out the erection labor and concrete.

benjamintmiller · Apr 18, 2018

You might consider a quote from Sukup as well... they make grain bins and steel buildings in northern Iowa.

https://www.sukup.com/Buildings/142/Steel-Buildings

benjamintmiller · Apr 18, 2018

And in my experience buying a wooden pole barn, many companies charge extra for stamped plans, because they have to pay an engineer to review the drawings and put his license on the line.

My city doesn't require engineered plans for accessory buildings, so I was able to save about $1000 by not having the plans stamped, even though the building will be built exactly the same.

Walter_TA · Apr 18, 2018

If you want a lift, make the walls 12 ft. Do you want liner panels on the inside. Roof panel should have a 40 year warranty. What are your ground snow and wind loads? Do you need stamped prints. How many windows do you want, and where? Man door? What roof pitch? Building will come on a trailer, how will you get it off? Where will store the steel until you are ready to put it up? If you want IM me, there is more.

Get a quote from http://www.simpsonsteel.com/ They are good people

wornoutoldman · Apr 19, 2018

346ci said:
I'm fixing to order the steel for my 40x40x14, got a quote from Arco out of GA and Searcy in TN. I got a quote from champion for a turn key building also, was higher than me subbing out the erection labor and concrete.

I'm not surprised. I will erect this thing myself with a bit of paid labor.

benjamintmiller said:
You might consider a quote from Sukup as well... they make grain bins and steel buildings in northern Iowa.

https://www.sukup.com/Buildings/142/Steel-Buildings

Thank you I will look into that.

benjamintmiller said:
And in my experience buying a wooden pole barn, many companies charge extra for stamped plans, because they have to pay an engineer to review the drawings and put his license on the line.

My city doesn't require engineered plans for accessory buildings, so I was able to save about $1000 by not having the plans stamped, even though the building will be built exactly the same.

When I started this two years ago my town did not have any requirements beyond an initial $75 permit fee. I will be heading over to the county building department later today to get more details.

Walter_TA said:
If you want a lift, make the walls 12 ft. Do you want liner panels on the inside. Roof panel should have a 40 year warranty. What are your ground snow and wind loads? Do you need stamped prints. How many windows do you want, and where? Man door? What roof pitch? Building will come on a trailer, how will you get it off? Where will store the steel until you are ready to put it up? If you want IM me, there is more.

Get a quote from http://www.simpsonsteel.com/ They are good people

Good info and just emailed for a quote. I'm sure they will call me right away.

A huge thank you to everyone who has commented. :thumbup:

crook038 · Apr 19, 2018

Of the 3 quotes I like #2 the best. I think the 4/12 pitch roof is more pleasing to look at and will shed snow better. I purchased my building kit through Hansen Pole Buildings. I see that your looking for an all steel building and understand your reasoning. Make sure you factor in the foundation/slab design when making your decision on the actual structure. The better detailed the quote and plans, the better off you will be when you go to erect/build it yourself. AS others have mentioned, wall height is key when and if you want to install a lift. Make sure you understand how the manufacturer calculates interior height as opposed to wall height. Best of luck in your build.
Sean

justinthurn · Apr 21, 2018

Definitely not apples to apples but I got a quote for an all steel 50x50x16 last year for 33,000. Including building, erection, r50 ceiling, r21 vinyl backed insulation, openings for 6 windows, 2 14x14 doors and 2 man doors. Not included was the slab, windows and doors. This was from a great company, don't have their info handy but we have had several buildings done by them. Ask for references and if possible, visit some of their buildings.

wornoutoldman · Apr 21, 2018

Went to my County Building and Zoning office Thursday. Provided a dinner napkin sketch and asked what's next? Transferred the drawing to their official permit application paperwork and walked out with my permit. $75 no inspections required, before, during or after the build.

I've narrowed down my selection to Strat-O-Span or Simpson. The buildings are very similar in outward appearance and price. The main difference is Strat-O-Span is an open ceiling design and Simpson uses trusses. Both are manufactured here in the States. From Simpson below.

My design is now locked at 30X50X12. my research indicates that insulation (polyiso) and interior walls are about 50% less purchased locally. I will post the estimates with the final design once received.

Simpson appears easier to work with regarding delivery. Pay 30% now and the remaining balance at the time of delivery (my choice) just call three weeks prior to desired time. Strat-O-Span offers up to 120 days to take delivery. Being at the mercy of the Mother Nature and concrete contractors make delivery time an issue/concern for me.

Spoke with two concrete guys Friday. Waiting on estimates. Plan to get up to 5 estimates but no less than three. All come highly recommended, it will come down to price/availability. I would like to have the building erected no later than August. Thinking that is a reasonable expectation.

Many thanks to all who have viewed/commented. Your thoughts are very much appreciated! :bowdown:

Walter_TA · Apr 22, 2018

If you do the concrete forms it will be cheaper. You will need a laser level. Got mine on ebay.

JeremiahTRD · Apr 22, 2018

If it's not too late check out this company.

John Rodriguez
District Manager
Rigid Global Buildings
18933 Aldine Westfield
Houston, TX 77073
d- 713-550-5884 ⋅ c- 281-961-2630 ⋅ 281-443-9064
www.rigidbuilding.com

I just bought a 50 x 100 from them and they beat every price I got.

My friend built one last year and i went to check it out before I bought mine.

wornoutoldman · May 10, 2018

Sorry I have not posted in a couple of weeks. My FIL passed away on May 1st after a long battle with cancer. My wife and I were fortunate to have been with him the week prior, and at his bedside when he passed, we had been staying with family (out of town) since.

Quick update: I have given Strat-O-Span a deposit and my building will be delivered in a few weeks. I'm going to start a new thread with the build detailed.

tre873 · May 10, 2018

Sorry to hear about your FIL. I think you'll love the new shop. Make sure you post LOTS of pictures.

LifeLongWNYer · May 10, 2018

I am in the process of designing a building also, and have two questions.

# 1: WHY aren't you interested in a wood building? I am, and wonder if there are points to think about that I have overlooked.

# 2: It "appears to me" that these are for materials only. Is that correct?

.

wornoutoldman · May 11, 2018

tre873 said:
Sorry to hear about your FIL. Thank you. He was an amazing person. I think you'll love the new shop. Make sure you post LOTS of pictures. Oh yes, it will be well documented.

Oh yes, it will be well documented.

LifeLongWNYer said:
I am in the process of designing a building also, and have two questions.

# 1: WHY aren't you interested in a wood building? I am, and wonder if there are points to think about that I have overlooked.

I wanted something that I could assemble myself. An open truss design was really important to me. In my case, the overall costs will be less than a similar wooden or hybrid structure.

# 2: It "appears to me" that these are for materials only. Is that correct?

Yes, materials only. Although just about every company I spoke with could provide the actual erection or referrals to contractors who could do the assembly. (average cost 5-8K)

.

finn · May 11, 2018

The roof looks marginal for the snow load on Conover, in my opinion... what snow load is it rated for?

wornoutoldman · May 11, 2018

finn said:
The roof looks marginal for the snow load on Conover, in my opinion... what snow load is it rated for?

60lb snow load, 90mph winds, meets county building standards.

wornoutoldman · Jul 29, 2018

Hello All,

Sorry I've not posted to this thread for a while.

My Father in law passed away 5/1 after years of battling cancer. My wife and I spent half of March all of May with her/my large Irish family as Chuck entered hospice. His suffering was extreme but he hung on till the bitter end and passed at home one day after my BILs birthday. I was not present at that moment but my wife Shannon was as well as her younger brother, and older sister. Family and friends surrounded him round the clock in those last days and weeks, watching his suffering made me think "just let go" but he wasn't having any of that. The Grim Reaper surely had his work cut out for him. Chuck was a really interesting guy, mainly because he always showed an interest in others and their well being. He spent his entire working life at the same company from 18 years old to his retirement in his 60s. He had been with and was married to my MIL for over 53 years and his family is the tightest I've ever known. I am blessed beyond words to have met and married his daughter (one of 3 girls - 3 boys) He was one of the few people I've ever know who never had a bad word to say about another person. Always caring, always helpful you could count on Chuck and many people did. The consummate patriarch his shoes may never be filled.

While away from home I completed the purchase of my building and had the concrete contractor complete the 30 X 50 slab and 20 X 30 apron. The building was delivered a couple of weeks after the concrete was finished.

June found the family AirBnB in Breckenridge and after we returned I spent 10 Days at Lake of The Woods Musky fishing with my father. I returned to Northern WI and had umbilical hernia surgery this past Monday.

As it now stands I'm looking at 6-8 weeks before the erection begins. I'll be posting more info and pics in a new thread.

Augus7us · Jul 29, 2018

Sounds like your FIL was a good man. We should all be so lucky to have such great people in our lives. Whether we admit it or not the path we take in life is determined by those are around us.

I remember when you posted this thread. Good to see you moving forward. That looks like a real nice building and just the right size for me.

wornoutoldman said:
As it now stands I'm looking at 6-8 weeks before the erection begins. I'll be posting more info and pics in a new thread.

They make a blue pill that can help you get back in action a lot sooner than that! No need to post the photos though.

Keep us posted

-Clint

DCarr2 · Jul 29, 2018

I didnt read it all, but someone mentioned height... I second that. I grew up with the most amazing shop ever... except its height became a real problem... 10' doors... seems high enough right?

12' would have been WAY better..

My new house and my new shop has 18' ceilings, with a 14' door. I can literally fit ANY road vehicle thruogh my door..

3 Proposals Steel Building 30X50 decisions must be made

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned