Building A Detached With Bathroom...Advice Welcome

ManorGarage · Feb 9, 2019

Manors Three Car

Now that my attached garage is filled with the 2 DDs and 1 toy I need to start planning for the future and more toys. I am located in Long Island NY and am limited to 24’ wide and up to 18’ high at the peak. I am looking for the garage area to be approximately 28’ deep and have enough ceiling height for lifts in both bays (4 toys is better then 2) One key ingredient that will get me this whole permission slip is having a full bathroom off this garage with garage access and exterior access (gives her an outside bathroom off the pool). Odds are this may turn into an exterior kitchen too off the side of the garage but that’s not my main concern.

What advice do those of you that have been down this path have for me. Must haves so to speak. My attached garage has racedeck freeflow and I love it but thinking radiant heat under porcelain for this garage.

Open to any and all suggestions. I’m hoping to accomplish this for $50k (the garage and bathroom), but odds are that will end up being wishful thinking and double as tends to happen.

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ScottsGT · Feb 9, 2019

That much addded for $50K in Long Island? I think you’re in for some sticker shock. especially with a bathroom and an outdoor kitchen.
Have you spoke with a contractor yet? Sounds like you’re going to have one really nice place when done.

Stuart in MN · Feb 9, 2019

A bathroom will be expensive and cuts into garage space. Do you need a toilet and all that? If you can get away with just a sink it will be a lot easier.

I agree that $50,000 doesn't sound like nearly enough - maybe if you do a lot of the work yourself.

PhantomEB · Feb 9, 2019

24x28? Not enough garage space to warrant a luxury such as a bathroom.

LXCam · Feb 9, 2019

Your biggest hurdle other then your budget will be the waste water tie-in. Is there a convenient location to access the main?, do you have sufficient fall to that point. I'd imagine your on a sewer and not septic. Is the house slab in grade or raised foundation. If raised and on a sewer system (and assuming the sewer is in the street) you'd most certainly need to excavate out to the front yard to achieve the required slope of the drain. If on a septic, is it large enough to handle another crapper. If none of this has been taken into consideration or you're not certain of the answers I'd suggest getting a plumber who is to come and make some recommendations before getting too far into a plan and budget.

ddawg16 · Feb 9, 2019

Like the others have said....I think you are in for sticker shock. What you are talking about is going to be more like $80K.

Run a gas line. Assuming you have NG in your area.

And if you can do 18'...consider a small attic for storage...at least at the back of the garage.

2x6 walls....you don't want 2x4 studs for walls over 8'....they will never be straight.

Run a sub panel to the garage

I would do at least 8" stem walls off the foundation to get your walls above the ground. It also makes it easy to wash out your floor. My stem walls are 7" wide....it lets the drywall but right up to it...and on the outside, the sheathing is flush with the outside wall.

larry4406 · Feb 9, 2019

My prior house I had a detached 28x58 with full bath. It gravity sewered to the house. I cored the house foundation wall and entered into the house basement where I tied into a prepositioned waste stack from when I built the house. From there it drained into the house’s groundworks then off to the septic system.

I too think your $50k is quite a bit low.

ManorGarage · Feb 9, 2019

Sorry I should have elaborated the outdoor kitchen and such isn’t in that budget also the footprint was of just the garage area with the bathroom being behind that. Not overly concerned with that sizing right now as quite frankly I only care about the garage my wife will figure out the bathroom end. And yes I already know 50k is wishful. That was budgeting 10 grand in for bathroom, wifey will easily push that north of 20. And budgeting in 40 for garage I’m sure it will be more like 80. Which is why I said likely double the 50.

As for the rest I am on a cesspool not a sewer.

Am more interested in advice for functionality on the garage certain ceiling height you wish you might have had. Stupid overlooked stuff. The big stuff I have under control. The devil is in the details and that’s what I’m looking for the most advice on.

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ManorGarage · Feb 9, 2019

larry4406 said:
My prior house I had a detached 28x58 with full bath. It gravity sewered to the house. I cored the house foundation wall and entered into the house basement where I tied into a prepositioned waste stack from when I built the house. From there it drained into the house’s groundworks then off to the septic system.

I too think your $50k is quite a bit low.

Thanks yes I have a propositioned waste in my basement from when built to so this is my plan. One of the few things I have going for me

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ManorGarage · Feb 9, 2019

ddawg16 said:
Like the others have said....I think you are in for sticker shock. What you are talking about is going to be more like $80K.

Run a gas line. Assuming you have NG in your area.

And if you can do 18'...consider a small attic for storage...at least at the back of the garage.

2x6 walls....you don't want 2x4 studs for walls over 8'....they will never be straight.

Run a sub panel to the garage

I would do at least 8" stem walls off the foundation to get your walls above the ground. It also makes it easy to wash out your floor. My stem walls are 7" wide....it lets the drywall but right up to it...and on the outside, the sheathing is flush with the outside wall.

Definitely doing 2x6 absolutely on the sub panel right now I only have 200 amp service so most likely bringing in more.

Mostly just a storage garage I can work on anything in my industrial building.

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ScottsGT · Feb 9, 2019

Son works for a guy that added on a very similar setup in Mt. Pleasant, SC. Just across the bridge from Charleston. He lives in an exclusive gated community with 7 figure homes. (Think SC prices, not NY) But he did his with the garage door in the back so the front of the house it look like additional house space. He did the 18’ ceiling with an attic and it has 1st floor and “second floor” windows to appear as just part of the home. Has a bathroom as well. He has a lift in place and the race deck flooring. Takes a good shop vac to get all the dust up.

ManorGarage · Feb 9, 2019

ScottsGT said:
Son works for a guy that added on a very similar setup in Mt. Pleasant, SC. Just across the bridge from Charleston. He lives in an exclusive gated community with 7 figure homes. (Think SC prices, not NY) But he did his with the garage door in the back so the front of the house it look like additional house space. He did the 18’ ceiling with an attic and it has 1st floor and “second floor” windows to appear as just part of the home. Has a bathroom as well. He has a lift in place and the race deck flooring. Takes a good shop vac to get all the dust up.

Sounds similar to my set up except I love seeing the garage doors. I find them aesthetically pleasing. I know when I drive around and see houses with lots of garage doors it just makes me drool and wonder what’s in their. That hasn’t changed since I was a 7 year old kid I don’t expect it ever will. If I can pull up my driveway and be surrounded by 5 garage doors that’s never a bad way to end a day.

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ScottsGT · Feb 9, 2019

I’m with you on the garage doors. But I think to get this approved he had to put them on the back side so it couldn’t be seen and look like a mechanics shop when they work with the doors open. It does face the marsh. Very picturesque while working out in the garage during nice weather.
Just looked through all the images my son has sent me to see if any was worth posting up, but everything is close ups of all the cars they are working on.

bluecomputer · Feb 9, 2019

Good luck convincing any government on long island that you aren't building an illegal secondary apartment.
I wish you the best of luck but your cost estimate seems low. You are also likely to have issues getting permits for something so unusual.

ManorGarage · Feb 9, 2019

bluecomputer said:
Good luck convincing any government on long island that you aren't building an illegal secondary apartment.
I wish you the best of luck but your cost estimate seems low. You are also likely to have issues getting permits for something so unusual.

I know it’s going to be closer to 100, but I hope your not right about having permit issues it’s a 2 car detached garage with a bathroom. Don’t think that should raise a red flag. Wouldn’t surprise me either though. No such thing as owning property on Long Island your just renting it from the town.

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nadogail · Feb 10, 2019

I have a half bath in my garage workshop, it is a great convenience.

With the assistance of a local plumber the expense was pretty reasonable. City permits Framing, Plumbing, Drywall, and Electrical were pretty reasonable and the Building Inspector was cooperative. City Building Department was a pleasure to work with.

Having a fully functional throne make me feel like a king in my own shop.

MushCreek · Feb 10, 2019

Hopefully they are OK with the bathroom. My mother wanted to add a bathroom in her barn, and they refused, saying she would turn it into an apartment. That was in CT, though. Here in SC, they don't care. Since my barn isn't living space, they don't count it against my septic system. They go by the number of bedrooms connected to the system. A bathroom in an outbuilding doesn't add any load to a septic system; it just changes the 'delivery' point. As a 'seasoned' citizen, I would always want a bathroom in an outbuilding I was going to spend time in.

CombatNinja · Feb 10, 2019

LOL at $50,000 for a 24' x 28' with an attic on Long Island. Maybe if you do everything but the foundation yourself. Maybe. And then it probably isn't going to match the house, it will be the cheapest materials available.

If you want a garage that big with a bathroom all matched to your house and are paying to have it done, TRIPLE your number. Not kidding. I am not trying to rain on your parade just advising you to practice some good expectation management, especially in conversations with the spouse, as that is where so many of these projects go wrong. Guy wants a garage and tells the wife it will cost "X". Wife freaks out when the bids come in at 2-3X and the whole thing is over before it starts.

ManorGarage · Feb 10, 2019

CombatNinja said:
LOL at $50,000 for a 24' x 28' with an attic on Long Island. Maybe if you do everything but the foundation yourself. Maybe. And then it probably isn't going to match the house, it will be the cheapest materials available.

If you want a garage that big with a bathroom all matched to your house and are paying to have it done, TRIPLE your number. Not kidding. I am not trying to rain on your parade just advising you to practice some good expectation management, especially in conversations with the spouse, as that is where so many of these projects go wrong. Guy wants a garage and tells the wife it will cost "X". Wife freaks out when the bids come in at 2-3X and the whole thing is over before it starts.

Everyone seems stuck on my 50k number I started that sentence with saying most likely double. I’m not worried about the number I always hope for the less and estimate low but like with everything I’m sure the end project will end up more like 200k when I add everything up (heated paved driveway, garage with bathroom, patio and outdoor kitchen off garage with patio, and overhang over new patio or electric awning) with all that said what I am looking for is for advice on things people did they are thrilled with vs things they hate. A buddy told me not to forget about in floor drainage for washing in doors in bad weather. That is the kind of stuff I am looking for. Thank you for all the advice so far but I would ask people stop getting hung up on the 50k thing.

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CombatNinja · Feb 10, 2019

Okay, fine. I'll forget about the money. On to practical issues...

The first red flag I see is that 24' is not wide enough for two lifts in my opinion. Are you looking to do two-post for actual automotive work or are you focused primarily on storing additional toys? If storage, I would look at a 4-post parking lift in your situation. But either scenario is going to pretty much eliminate the prospect of washing indoors given the dimensions you are restricted to. I guess you could get water all over the place on and around the lifts but I would not want to do that in my garage. Indoor washing with lifts works a lot better when there is a dedicated bay for it away from the lift so it is not getting wet all the time.

ManorGarage · Feb 10, 2019

CombatNinja said:
Okay, fine. I'll forget about the money. On to practical issues...

The first red flag I see is that 24' is not wide enough for two lifts in my opinion. Are you looking to do two-post for actual automotive work or are you focused primarily on storing additional toys? If storage, I would look at a 4-post parking lift in your situation. But either scenario is going to pretty much eliminate the prospect of washing indoors given the dimensions you are restricted to. I guess you could get water all over the place on and around the lifts but I would not want to do that in my garage. Indoor washing with lifts works a lot better when there is a dedicated bay for it away from the lift so it is not getting wet all the time.

Very good point this is just for storage so definitely will be 4 post. My shop/factory is where all work will get done so no need to store anything but bare essentials here this is just for parking. I’ll definitely scrap the drain idea as your absolutely right id never use it once the lifts get installed.

The 24’ interior width is unfortunately a limitation I have to deal with as to get 5’ off the property line that is the max I can make it and still have everything aesthetically balanced. Given this is just for storage I thought 24’ would be ample. Depth I have more leeway with but width I am limited on that front.

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CombatNinja · Feb 10, 2019

I would absolutely consider a lift like the one above in your situation. At 24' in width, a single lift will put the posts in the middle of your shop which will kill the functionality. The one above is 202" in width and 200" in depth which would give you approx. 4' on each side and 6' front and back if you center it in the garage. If maximum storage of cars in the minimum footprint is your goal there is no better way to go about it. That said, this has to be the driver of your design from the beginning as the wall height, truss style and roofline all come into play. Too often guys just start building a garage by matching the roof pitch to the existing house with no thought toward whether or not the cars will actually fit one on top of one another once completed. Then they end up doing all kinds of retrofits like jackshaft openers and garage door tracks right up to the ceiling when they could have been money ahead by just doing it right the first time. I don't know what your house roof looks like but if you center the lift in the garage, your max clearance would come from having the gable ends on the sides of the garage, not the front and back. Not saying it can't be done the other way but that is the way I would be headed if I were you.

ManorGarage · Feb 10, 2019

CombatNinja said:
I would absolutely consider a lift like the one above in your situation. At 24' in width, a single lift will put the posts in the middle of your shop which will kill the functionality. The one above is 202" in width and 200" in depth which would give you approx. 4' on each side and 6' front and back if you center it in the garage. If maximum storage of cars in the minimum footprint is your goal there is no better way to go about it. That said, this has to be the driver of your design from the beginning as the wall height, truss style and roofline all come into play. Too often guys just start building a garage by matching the roof pitch to the existing house with no thought toward whether or not the cars will actually fit one on top of one another once completed. Then they end up doing all kinds of retrofits like jackshaft openers and garage door tracks right up to the ceiling when they could have been money ahead by just doing it right the first time. I don't know what your house roof looks like but if you center the lift in the garage, your max clearance would come from having the gable ends on the sides of the garage, not the front and back. Not saying it can't be done the other way but that is the way I would be headed if I were you.

Yes I see your point. I was hoping for single garage doors to match the current layout in the main house but I may have to go with a single double door to make this work. I’ll have to cad it all out when I get some time and see how it will look.

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finn · Feb 10, 2019

You aren’t going to fit a useful storage attic if limited to 18’ at the peak, and you want one or more lifts.

You probably want at least 12’ceilings to accommodate the lift. 13-14’ would be better.

The lift itself, either two or four post, is going to take up a lot of real estate. If you are bound and determined to have two lifts in such a small space, stick with a small, ~7k model as the posts won’t take as much space. My son is looking at the Max Jack as it is somewhat portable, so it can be moved out of the way.

ManorGarage · Feb 10, 2019

finn said:
You aren’t going to fit a useful storage attic if limited to 18’ at the peak, and you want one or more lifts.

You probably want at least 12’ceilings to accommodate the lift. 13-14’ would be better.

The lift itself, either two or four post, is going to take up a lot of real estate. If you are bound and determined to have two lifts in such a small space, stick with a small, ~7k model as the posts won’t take as much space. My son is looking at the Max Jack as it is somewhat portable, so it can be moved out of the way.

Thanks Finn. As for the storage attic I think someone else mentioned that in response to my posts. I don’t want or need one would rather have clear height for the lifts so that won’t be an issue. I have a full unfinished empty basement if I ever need to store anything but I try not to (moved almost yearly growing up so it taught me the benefits of keeping light). If anything I’ll just make a slight space for an air handler.

I like the idea of the single lift for clear space but not wild about not being able to operate just one lift at a time. Will be planning for a good year so it’s definitely something I need to CAD out and decide on.

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