Best way to approach a disassembled Southbend 9A?

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 6, 2019

Would I be better off asking about this on Practical Machinist?

I've never owned a lathe so starting with boxes of parts is a little intimidating. It's a WW-II era 4-1/2 foot 9A. It's not a government surplus machine so I think that means it could be just pre-war or post-war.

I've read that if it doesn't have power feed and quick change box, unless it's super rare/desirable, usually they are worth more selling them off for parts than restoring to try and use. Unfortunately there are so many boxes and so much stuff that I don't really know what I have/don't have. (if it matters, it was free) I'm not opposed to selling it but if if I do, I'd also like to know what I should sell vs. keep (tooling, chucks, etc.).

Thanks.

DocsMachine · Apr 6, 2019

How disassembled is it? Just apart enough for transportation, or did somebody reduce it to individual pieces?

Why was it disassembled, if that is known. Again, just into smaller parts so a single person could move it (say, up out of a basement) or into individual pieces for cleaning, painting and restoration. (Or because some major component broke and the machine is being parted out, etc.)

Yes, generally speaking, on many of these smaller popular lathes (SB, Logan, Atlas, Craftsman) you can usually get more for individual pieces than you can for the entire whole machine. Especially, as you note, if it's lacking or missing a QC gearbox

BUT, that also takes time, you have to list the parts more or less individually, pay close attention to the quality of the part- especially if it's a wear part- and be willing to sit on them for maybe a couple of years 'til they all sell.

Whereas, assuming you have most of the pieces, cleaning, inspecting and reassembling the unit into a complete lathe is easy, and ultimately, even a lathe without a QC gearbox is very useful.

Doc.

Oregon rock crusher · Apr 6, 2019

If it is a 9a it should have a quick change gear box as that's what the A's came with. 9b's or 9c's had change gears. They are pretty simple lathes to break into components but I suppose someone could have made it more difficult by reducing it to little pieces like Doc said. Ed.

930dreamer · Apr 6, 2019

Post some pics of the lathe/pieces.

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 7, 2019

Thanks for the replies. Yes, lots and lots of small, individual pieces. I know the guy who gave it to me. The lathe was his fathers. About 15 years ago he and his father broke it down to clean/restore it. They got it all broken down, cataloged, several notebooks of very detailed notes about parts, worn parts, spares, etc. His dad had a heart attack shortly after they broke it down. It sat like that in his dad's basement/workshop for a few years and then ultimately when the family cleaned out the house it went to his son (the guy I got it from). It's been sitting in his barn like that for ~10 years.

He told me it was working perfectly. He said the motor died and it had leather drive belts so they were going to switch over to new drive belts & pulleys, do a new motor and while they were at it go through the lathe, clean it up, give it new paint, etc. Basically they broke it all down, ordered all the new parts then his dad had a heart attack.

I probably have 1.5 lathes worth of parts. They bought a ton of replacement parts, new motor and he said his dad either had or made a bunch of stuff for it as "upgrades" for when the lathe was put back together.

That's all I know. The guy who gave it to me got sick and he hasn't been doing well. I ask now and then if he brings it up but right now he's got more to worry about than me...

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 7, 2019

DocsMachine said:
How disassembled is it? Just apart enough for transportation, or did somebody reduce it to individual pieces?

Why was it disassembled, if that is known. Again, just into smaller parts so a single person could move it (say, up out of a basement) or into individual pieces for cleaning, painting and restoration. (Or because some major component broke and the machine is being parted out, etc.)

Yes, generally speaking, on many of these smaller popular lathes (SB, Logan, Atlas, Craftsman) you can usually get more for individual pieces than you can for the entire whole machine. Especially, as you note, if it's lacking or missing a QC gearbox

BUT, that also takes time, you have to list the parts more or less individually, pay close attention to the quality of the part- especially if it's a wear part- and be willing to sit on them for maybe a couple of years 'til they all sell.

Whereas, assuming you have most of the pieces, cleaning, inspecting and reassembling the unit into a complete lathe is easy, and ultimately, even a lathe without a QC gearbox is very useful.

Doc.

Thanks for the reply. I was told there is "everything and a lot more" to get it back together and working. Lots of tooling, lots of new parts, upgrades, etc. This is my first lathe so I don't know what all that means. (I understand tooling and tool holders, the rest not really) My other reply has more details as to how and why I got it and how it got to be in its current condition. tl;dr version is machinist/tool maker and his son broke it down to restore together, father passed, son is now sick and he gave it to me. I know him, when he said it's got extras, tooling, spares, etc. I believe it. It's probably 1.5 lathes with all the extra parts knowing him and his dad.

I just have never owned one. I have several notes and notebooks of info. Maybe just start reading? Someone else said all the A's had QC. This is an A and I found a QC box of parts.

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 7, 2019

Salma21 said:
+1

I'm working on it. This is the first time in YEARS I've seen more than 3sq/ft of my workbench. Trying to spring clean so I can make a new home for either this lathe or some type of lathe.

marinusdees · Apr 7, 2019

I own a 9A, 1942. It has a red badge on the front of the bed which states, "This machine meets the standards of the War Production Board". I am not a professional machinist, but I can find my way around this lathe. Mine has a leather belt, you can buy leather replacements on ebay or synthetic flat belts. There is a reason flat belts were used. If a cutting tool "grabs" while turning, the belt will slip instead of breaking a(n expensive?) cutting tool. If it is rebuildable, I'd be inclined to keep it flat belt, assuming you have the pulleys.
If you google around a bit, entering the serial number will allow access to the date the lathe was shipped from South Bend.

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 7, 2019

marinusdees said:
I own a 9A, 1942. It has a red badge on the front of the bed which states, "This machine meets the standards of the War Production Board". I am not a professional machinist, but I can find my way around this lathe. Mine has a leather belt, you can buy leather replacements on ebay or synthetic flat belts. There is a reason flat belts were used. If a cutting tool "grabs" while turning, the belt will slip instead of breaking a(n expensive?) cutting tool. If it is rebuildable, I'd be inclined to keep it flat belt, assuming you have the pulleys.
If you google around a bit, entering the serial number will allow access to the date the lathe was shipped from South Bend.

I've had a few wood lathes, I understand turning from a chuck vs. between centers but that's about it. And I have a 4" (Jacob) cross slide table for my floor drill press. That's about the extent of my experience. Everything else is gmaw/gtaw, hammer & dolly, leading body panels, etc.

I'd like to learn and I'm not opposed to doing the work, especially if it means learning on a basic/beginner machine, I just don't want an uphill battle. Is the 9A a decent machine to learn on?

I don't know what year this is. My gut almost says it's pre-war... (because I know the family where I got it from). It is not a War machine/lathe (or there are no markings on the machine from that time) so my guess is that it's a very late pre-war or very early post-war. I'll grab the serial and look it up. Leather belts: yes, I think they were going to do synthetic belts, not V-belts or "serpentine belt" style, just flat rubber strips.

lafester · Apr 7, 2019

I just got one of these yesterday. Not free but cheap and it has some broken and missing parts. Id be happy to help guide you through getting it put back together, and maybe you have an extra part or two to get mine running.

marinusdees · Apr 7, 2019

The 9a is not just a "machine to learn on". It is a real honest to goodness metal screwcutting lathe. It is a better than entry metal cutting lathe. It is small and lightweight by today's standards, but will do everything you need it to do to become proficient at metal turning. Synthetic belts are not rubber belts nor are they leather belts.
They built these lathes during WWII, most were used (up) during the war.

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 8, 2019

marinusdees said:
The 9a is not just a "machine to learn on". It is a real honest to goodness metal screwcutting lathe. It is a better than entry metal cutting lathe.

That's very good news. I want to learn, make mistakes, etc. and my fear was that I would learn bad habits on an inferior lathe.

marinusdees said:
Synthetic belts are not rubber belts nor are they leather belts.

Sorry if I used the wrong terms. That's just my ignorance. I'm new to all of this and don't know any better.

marinusdees said:
They built these lathes during WWII, most were used (up) during the war.

I don't know the dates or all of the facts. Whenever I've Googled the 9A I see "government issue, war era" 9a's and then I see 9a's without the plaques/stamps. The only things I can confirm is that this doesn't have the plaques and it's a 4-1/2 foot machine.

lilredex · Apr 8, 2019

You can get an idea of the age of your lathe by putting your S/N in the link below. Click on the S/N heading and it will line them up numerically. The second will explain the options.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=5&sort=1&th=false&fl=

https://www.southbendlathe.com/older-machines/serial-numbers

If you want to change the belt to a auto type serpentine belt without removing the spindles.....have a look here:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/th...nd-Belt-Replacement?highlight=serpentine belt

This works, its how I did mine.

Asport · Apr 8, 2019

A lot of good advise on this thread.
They started making the workshop 9A's around 1936. There should be a serial # stamped on the RH TOP of the bed of the lathe. There are many many threads on multiple websites on rebuilding/restoring the lathe. It's not a complicated machine and the most challenging assembly with the most parts is the apron. If the ways on the bed and the bearings/spindle in the headstock are good you should be able to bring it back to a very accurate machine.

Let's see some PICs!

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 8, 2019

Asport said:
Let's see some PICs!

I'm terrible with pics. Between wanting a little bit of privacy, and then I look at it and to me, all I see is a giant pile of UPS moving boxes on a pallet so I think why bother with pics..

I'm working on it. I promise, I am!!

lafester · Apr 8, 2019

lilredex said:
You can get an idea of the age of your lathe by putting your S/N in the link below. Click on the S/N heading and it will line them up numerically. The second will explain the options.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=5&sort=1&th=false&fl=

https://www.southbendlathe.com/older-machines/serial-numbers

If you want to change the belt to a auto type serpentine belt without removing the spindles.....have a look here:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/th...nd-Belt-Replacement?highlight=serpentine belt

This works, its how I did mine.

I kind of like the idea of a leather belt but since I am starting with nothing I think I might go with a serpentine.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

mikegt4 · Apr 8, 2019

anythingyoucanimagine said:
Would I be better off asking about this on Practical Machinist?

I've never owned a lathe so starting with boxes of parts is a little intimidating. It's a WW-II era 4-1/2 foot 9A. It's not a government surplus machine so I think that means it could be just pre-war or post-war.

I've read that if it doesn't have power feed and quick change box, unless it's super rare/desirable, usually they are worth more selling them off for parts than restoring to try and use. Unfortunately there are so many boxes and so much stuff that I don't really know what I have/don't have. (if it matters, it was free) I'm not opposed to selling it but if if I do, I'd also like to know what I should sell vs. keep (tooling, chucks, etc.).

Thanks.

Don't bother with Practical Machinist, that is a "professional machinist only" forum and your question will be deleted.

Fortunately there are several good home machinist forums with lots of very knowledgeable people. These should get you started.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forums/3-General
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/index.php
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/

JeepJohn62 · Apr 8, 2019

I rebuilt one from buckets and trays of parts. Mine is a 10k model with the QC gearbox. Wire brush and some WD40. I recommend getting a rebuild kit and booklet

lafester · Apr 8, 2019

I sent this link via pm but figured others may benefit if they have not seen it.
Captjamie on Youtube has a set of videos showing a complete assembly from a totally stripped down lathe. They are a bit long but it's easy to skip ahead.

Tubalcain's videos are also great for general maintenance for those not wanting to do a complete teardown.

anythingyoucanimagine · Apr 8, 2019

This thing is a bit overwhelming. I have a few parts I want to make but I'm starting to wonder if I'd be better off waiting until we move into our new house and assemble it there.

lafester · Apr 9, 2019

anythingyoucanimagine said:
This thing is a bit overwhelming. I have a few parts I want to make but I'm starting to wonder if I'd be better off waiting until we move into our new house and assemble it there.

Having just moved one, it only takes a few minutes to separate the individual pieces from the bed. Each piece is then very manageable to pack and move. I can understand not wanting to mess with it though.

Best way to approach a disassembled Southbend 9A?

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