Tools of Japan

kapster · May 2, 2020

I'm liking the KTC M160 long wrenches and would like to order a set, most likely from Frank's tools. Anyone have a recommendation on that sizes to get? If you bought every one, you'd have some doubles. Is that the idea?

I asterisked the sizes for a set with minimum doubles. Now that I look at it might have answered my own question here, it only adds two wrenches to just get them all

8 X 10 *
10 X 12 *
12 X 14
13 x 15 *
14 X 17 *
16 x 18 *
17 x 19
19 X 21 *
22 X 24 *

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noid · May 2, 2020

kapster said:
I'm liking the KTC M160 long wrenches and would like to order a set, most likely from Frank's tools. Anyone have a recommendation on that sizes to get? If you bought every one, you'd have some doubles. Is that the idea?

I asterisked the sizes for a set with minimum doubles. Now that I look at it might have answered my own question here, it only adds two wrenches to just get them all

8 X 10 *
10 X 12 *
12 X 14
13 x 15 *
14 X 17 *
16 x 18 *
17 x 19
19 X 21 *
22 X 24 *

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

I have KTC and Tone long wrenches (ratcheting).

The Tone are much nicer; my favorite wrenches actually.

Dave455 · May 2, 2020

kapster said:
I'm liking the KTC M160 long wrenches and would like to order a set, most likely from Frank's tools. Anyone have a recommendation on that sizes to get? If you bought every one, you'd have some doubles. Is that the idea?

I asterisked the sizes for a set with minimum doubles. Now that I look at it might have answered my own question here, it only adds two wrenches to just get them all

8 X 10 *
10 X 12 *
12 X 14
13 x 15 *
14 X 17 *
16 x 18 *
17 x 19
19 X 21 *
22 X 24 *

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

The Japanese seem to design their wrench sizes carefully, so that if you get all of them, you end up with ‘doubles’ of the JIS sizes. Makes sense!

I sometimes find it a little frustrating, because if I want doubles of anything, it’s the ISO and DIN sizes, such as 13.

I would omit the 12 x 14 too, unless you work on Japanese stuff a lot!

paulsomlo · May 2, 2020

kapster said:
I'm liking the KTC M160 long wrenches and would like to order a set, most likely from Frank's tools. Anyone have a recommendation on that sizes to get? If you bought every one, you'd have some doubles. Is that the idea?

I asterisked the sizes for a set with minimum doubles. Now that I look at it might have answered my own question here, it only adds two wrenches to just get them all

8 X 10 *
10 X 12 *
12 X 14
13 x 15 *
14 X 17 *
16 x 18 *
17 x 19
19 X 21 *
22 X 24 *

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

I don't think that KTC makes a 16x18 - I bought some of these long double box from Frank's, but ordered a Tone 16x18 off Amazon.jp to round out the set; the PN is M05-1618.

kapster · May 2, 2020

paulsomlo said:
I don't think that KTC makes a 16x18 - I bought some of these long double box from Frank's, but ordered a Tone 16x18 off Amazon.jp to round out the set; the PN is M05-1618.

Yep they do, here is the webpage.

https://ktc.jp/catalog/index-category/category-list/m160-8x10__27x30

Notice also the 19x21 says New, so maybe they have added that since you purchased. It's pretty hard to find that one, but on amazon.jp or Franks but hoping he can get it. Hopefully they will do a 9x11 yet and we'll be all covered!

I like thinking of the doubles as a design feature, that's a good way to look at it!

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dutchgray · May 2, 2020

Well I got the Koken 1/2" drive Whitworth sockets, and a set of 1/4" extensions and a 1/2" drive to 1/4" hex adapter.
View media item 103446

paulsomlo · May 2, 2020

kapster said:
Yep they do, here is the webpage.

https://ktc.jp/catalog/index-category/category-list/m160-8x10__27x30

Notice also the 19x21 says New, so maybe they have added that since you purchased. It's pretty hard to find that one, but on amazon.jp or Franks but hoping he can get it. Hopefully they will do a 9x11 yet and we'll be all covered!

I like thinking of the doubles as a design feature, that's a good way to look at it!

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Hmm... they may have added that since I bought, pretty sure I looked at the KTC website back then.

cbracer · May 3, 2020

Negen said:
I had to buy the 'extra' in 3/8 and 1/4 deep.

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I've only seen the 'extra' in standard 3/8. Where did you find extra in deep 1/4 and deep 3/8? Must have missed those somewhere??

mn700vforce · May 3, 2020

E.T. said:
While true, you are also paying for that shipping. My first order shipping was close to $50

The last thing I ordered was a pair of pliers, it was around $6 for shipping, even with the cost of shipping it was still $20 cheaper than anywhere else I can source them.

dutchgray · May 3, 2020

cbracer said:
I've only seen the 'extra' in standard 3/8. Where did you find extra in deep 1/4 and deep 3/8? Must have missed those somewhere??

I think Negen was referring to the deal available from where I bought the extra sockets, a 3/8" extra set, the shallow ones same as I bought and a standard set of 1/4" semi deeps.
I don't think there is any other options available for extra sockets apart from the 3/8" shallow set.

measuredtwice · May 3, 2020

dutchgray said:
I think Negen was referring to the deal available from where I bought the extra sockets, a 3/8" extra set, the shallow ones same as I bought and a standard set of 1/4" semi deeps.
I don't think there is any other options available for extra sockets apart from the 3/8" shallow set.

I think this is the bundle of extra 3/8 shallow & regular 1/4 semi deep sold together. I could see how someone might mistakenly assume the 1/4 are extra but the 1/4 sockets don't have the "extra" knurling.

https://www.uktools.com/koken-38-extra-set-14-semi-deep-set-deal.html

Negen · May 3, 2020

Yes must not have noticed that they are different either way ordered both.

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mercucho · May 4, 2020

kapster said:
Yep they do, here is the webpage.

https://ktc.jp/catalog/index-category/category-list/m160-8x10__27x30

Notice also the 19x21 says New, so maybe they have added that since you purchased. It's pretty hard to find that one, but on amazon.jp or Franks but hoping he can get it. Hopefully they will do a 9x11 yet and we'll be all covered!

I like thinking of the doubles as a design feature, that's a good way to look at it!

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

Yes, the reference 19x21 was not in the catalog when I bought my M160 key set.
It will be a matter of looking for a provider of this measure.
______________________________________
P.D.: I have seen that they have this reference on webike

mercucho · May 4, 2020

paulsomlo said:
I don't think that KTC makes a 16x18 - I bought some of these long double box from Frank's, but ordered a Tone 16x18 off Amazon.jp to round out the set; the PN is M05-1618.

If they make the measurement 16x18. I bought it in its day.

M6erfan · May 4, 2020

kapster said:
I'm liking the KTC M160 long wrenches and would like to order a set, most likely from Frank's tools. Anyone have a recommendation on that sizes to get? If you bought every one, you'd have some doubles. Is that the idea?

I asterisked the sizes for a set with minimum doubles. Now that I look at it might have answered my own question here, it only adds two wrenches to just get them all

8 X 10 *
10 X 12 *
12 X 14
13 x 15 *
14 X 17 *
16 x 18 *
17 x 19
19 X 21 *
22 X 24 *

KTC makes excellent wrenches, they're my go to for DBE's. As you mentioned, getting all of them wouldn't be much more money and I definitely would.

noid said:
I have KTC and Tone long wrenches (ratcheting).

The Tone are much nicer; my favorite wrenches actually.

I have their ratcheting wrenches too. Keep in mind that their ratcheting wrenches are made in Taiwan, their DBE's are made in Japan :thumbup:

Qualitytools · May 4, 2020

I see a lot of discussion about the Best flare nut wrenches and Snap-On appears to be the consensus that when it comes to that style they are the King of the market because they do not spread causing damage to the fastener, and of course who wants that as the whole idea is not to damage but to remove whole.

I have been so impressed with the tools made in Japan and wondered if there is a manufacturer that rival Snap-On, maybe even better, any suggestions, first hand experience? Thanks for sharing

kapster · May 4, 2020

mercucho said:
If they make the measurement 16x18. I bought it in its day.

I've been eyeing those pictures for awhile now, the best visual I've found for them on the web. Thanks for posting them back when!

M6erfan said:
KTC makes excellent wrenches, they're my go to for DBE's.

I have their ratcheting wrenches too. Keep in mind that their ratcheting wrenches are made in Taiwan, their DBE's are made in Japan [emoji106]

Good to hear, I'm excited to try them! You have the m160 I assume? I think these will work for what I want, the ratcheting look awesome as well but I'll start with this.

I assume there is really no warranty with this stuff, or at least not worth messing with it?

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Dave455 · May 4, 2020

Qualitytools said:
I see a lot of discussion about the Best flare nut wrenches and Snap-On appears to be the consensus that when it comes to that style they are the King of the market because they do not spread causing damage to the fastener, and of course who wants that as the whole idea is not to damage but to remove whole.

I have been so impressed with the tools made in Japan and wondered if there is a manufacturer that rival Snap-On, maybe even better, any suggestions, first hand experience? Thanks for sharing

When one thinks about rivals to Snap On the first thought is Nepros. Unfortunately, while the Nepros tools are superb, their drawback is their limited range. They don’t offer flare nut wrenches, as such, but they do offer one specialist tool for brake lines. (10mm). I suspect it’s good but don’t own it.

KTC (Nepros’s parent company) offer them, but again, I don’t own any.

Of the modern manufacturers, both Hazet and Stahlwille offer (very decent) flare nut wrenches, but this thread probably isn’t the place to say that, and they only offer metric sizes. The strongest are the old Blue Point (pre Snap On) single ended ones, and the old British made Britool, but both long out of production!

I would concur with the view that the Snap On are very good. I have had a couple of occasions now, where other (Taiwanese) wrenches have failed to remove a fastener (one brake line and a machine coolant pipe) but the Snap On has succeeded.

Steve_P · May 4, 2020

kapster said:
I'm liking the KTC M160 long wrenches and would like to order a set, most likely from Frank's tools. Anyone have a recommendation on that sizes to get? If you bought every one, you'd have some doubles. Is that the idea?

I asterisked the sizes for a set with minimum doubles. Now that I look at it might have answered my own question here, it only adds two wrenches to just get them all

8 X 10 *
10 X 12 *
12 X 14
13 x 15 *
14 X 17 *
16 x 18 *
17 x 19
19 X 21 *
22 X 24 *

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

I have the Tone, from Amazon.jp. I bought every size from 10 mm and up.

noid · May 4, 2020

Qualitytools said:
I see a lot of discussion about the Best flare nut wrenches and Snap-On appears to be the consensus that when it comes to that style they are the King of the market because they do not spread causing damage to the fastener, and of course who wants that as the whole idea is not to damage but to remove whole.

I have been so impressed with the tools made in Japan and wondered if there is a manufacturer that rival Snap-On, maybe even better, any suggestions, first hand experience? Thanks for sharing

Hazet 612N > Snap-on

Qualitytools · May 5, 2020

noid said:
Hazet 612N > Snap-on

Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into the Hazet

M6erfan · May 5, 2020

kapster said:
Good to hear, I'm excited to try them! You have the m160 I assume? I think these will work for what I want, the ratcheting look awesome as well but I'll start with this.

I assume there is really no warranty with this stuff, or at least not worth messing with it?

I Have the M5's. Had them for years. Love 'em.

https://ktc.jp/catalog/index-category/category-list/m5-05507__4146

Specifically, I have this set...

https://www.frankstools.com/ktcofboxendw1.html

I think Frank will warranty KTC tools here in the U.S. Personally I don't worry about warranty. I'm not breaking wrenches.

rcbaldwinjr · May 5, 2020

These Japanese-made Kmart Pliers that I got from my grandmother as a kid during the 80's.

Negen · May 5, 2020

I believe these to be the same OEM as sears branded non craftsmen pliers.

rcbaldwinjr said:
These Japanese-made Kmart Pliers that I got from my grandmother as a kid during the 80's.

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Reed Prince · May 6, 2020

rcbaldwinjr said:
These Japanese-made Kmart Pliers that I got from my grandmother as a kid during the 80's.

My oldest Japanese pliers. Think I bought them at Radio Shack in the early 1980s.

Looks like they still make them.

Qualitytools · May 6, 2020

Dave455 said:
When one thinks about rivals to Snap On the first thought is Nepros. Unfortunately, while the Nepros tools are superb, their drawback is their limited range. They don’t offer flare nut wrenches, as such, but they do offer one specialist tool for brake lines. (10mm). I suspect it’s good but don’t own it.

KTC (Nepros’s parent company) offer them, but again, I don’t own any.

Of the modern manufacturers, both Hazet and Stahlwille offer (very decent) flare nut wrenches, but this thread probably isn’t the place to say that, and they only offer metric sizes. The strongest are the old Blue Point (pre Snap On) single ended ones, and the old British made Britool, but both long out of production!

I would concur with the view that the Snap On are very good. I have had a couple of occasions now, where other (Taiwanese) wrenches have failed to remove a fastener (one brake line and a machine coolant pipe) but the Snap On has succeeded.

Thanks Dave455, yes I am looking for metric

ryanx0r · May 8, 2020

Just got these, you guys are a bad influence.

pizza · May 8, 2020

maybe superautobacs or someone else knows the answer to this..

i'm looking into getting some nice shears mostly for cloth and paper. of course i am considering shozaburo (庄三郎).

http://www.scissors.jp/images/item/shozaburo/hikakuhyou.jpg

i'm thinking of getting a 260mm length.
either the standard-deluxe model or the hard blade model.

the hard blade model is made of tool steel and is more hardened for longer edge retention. you can cut more materials with it (synthetic fibers, leather, rubber, and plastic).

before shopping, i automatically assumed the tool steel one was their "best" model.

so i guess i have two questions:

1) while shopping, i noticed that the standard-deluxe model seems to be more expensive. i wonder why that is?

2) is the standard-deluxe model better for cutting normal fabric than the hard model?

HenryAZ · May 9, 2020

Not Japanese, but take a look at Gingher (made in Italy). They make excellent shears and scissors. I have a pair of their blunt nose leather shears that cut leather like butter. Also have several other sizes and all are top notch.

Jack84 · May 9, 2020

My Ko-Ken stuff.

dutchgray · May 9, 2020

View media item 103832Koken 1/4" metric sockets

Salmanslim · May 9, 2020

Jack84 said:
My Ko-Ken stuff.

You got them from i-tools?

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Jack84 · May 9, 2020

What’s i tools?

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pizza · May 9, 2020

Jack84 said:
What’s i tools?

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/i-tools/

it's a japanese tool store with a rakuten page.
unfortunately, they are not shipping overseas right now.

American Locomotive · May 9, 2020

pizza said:
maybe superautobacs or someone else knows the answer to this..

i'm looking into getting some nice shears mostly for cloth and paper. of course i am considering shozaburo (庄三郎).

http://www.scissors.jp/images/item/shozaburo/hikakuhyou.jpg

i'm thinking of getting a 260mm length.
either the standard-deluxe model or the hard blade model.

the hard blade model is made of tool steel and is more hardened for longer edge retention. you can cut more materials with it (synthetic fibers, leather, rubber, and plastic).

before shopping, i automatically assumed the tool steel one was their "best" model.

so i guess i have two questions:

1) while shopping, i noticed that the standard-deluxe model seems to be more expensive. i wonder why that is?

2) is the standard-deluxe model better for cutting normal fabric than the hard model?

I can't comment on that brand, but I recently bought a few pairs (in different sizes) of the Kai 7000 series scissors. Made in Japan. Hands down the nicest and sharpest pair of scissors I have ever used.

iWrench · May 9, 2020

pizza said:
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/i-tools/

it's a japanese tool store with a rakuten page.
unfortunately, they are not shipping overseas right now.

I ordered my 8mm, 10mm, and 13mm KoKen magnetic nut setters from i tools a few weeks ago. They shipped them just before they shut down the shipping it seems. Last week I went to their store to check out some more KoKen stuff and I saw the message about the shipping being shut down.

superautobacs · May 11, 2020

pizza said:
maybe superautobacs or someone else knows the answer to this..

i'm looking into getting some nice shears mostly for cloth and paper. of course i am considering shozaburo (庄三郎).

http://www.scissors.jp/images/item/shozaburo/hikakuhyou.jpg

i'm thinking of getting a 260mm length.
either the standard-deluxe model or the hard blade model.

the hard blade model is made of tool steel and is more hardened for longer edge retention. you can cut more materials with it (synthetic fibers, leather, rubber, and plastic).

before shopping, i automatically assumed the tool steel one was their "best" model.

so i guess i have two questions:

1) while shopping, i noticed that the standard-deluxe model seems to be more expensive. i wonder why that is?

2) is the standard-deluxe model better for cutting normal fabric than the hard model?

Shozaburo ... arguably the quintessential Japanese forged scissors.

The "standard" series models are produced in the traditional manner, and therefore, requires additional production stages to make the end product. The cost is likely higher for the high carbon content on the knife/blade steel that gets laminated onto the "standard" models.

The "hard" model which uses stainless tool steel is more suited for cutting harder/thicker materials and is better able to resist rusting and blade skewing/chipping than the "standard" models.

The "standard" models have a very keen edge that can be maintained through reserving its use for cutting fabric. I've heard that paper products can have hard inclusions such as sand, which will invariably contribute to wearing of that knife edge.

I featured a Shozaburo "standard" model not long ago:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6XM3zMim3Rw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you don't care for a video...some photos:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/49119330043/in/photolist-2hQxYUq-2hQvpw4-2hQvpwK-2hQyYEX-2hQxYYD/" title="Shozaburo Forged Shears"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49119330043_8c69f50642_b.jpg" width="576" height="1024" alt="Shozaburo Forged Shears"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/49119832536/in/photolist-2hQxYUq-2hQvpw4-2hQvpwK-2hQyYEX-2hQxYYD" title="Shozaburo Forged Shears"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49119832536_b7514e6d0e_b.jpg" width="576" height="1024" alt="Shozaburo Forged Shears"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/49119330003/in/photolist-2hQxYUq-2hQvpw4-2hQvpwK-2hQyYEX-2hQxYYD/" title="Shozaburo Forged Shears"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49119330003_dd6de05925_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Shozaburo Forged Shears"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Traditional laminated steel construction

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/49120026867/in/photolist-2hQxYUq-2hQvpw4-2hQvpwK-2hQyYEX-2hQxYYD/" title="Shozaburo Forged Shears"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49120026867_68367d22bb_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Shozaburo Forged Shears"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Still hand made in Tokyo, Japan for over a 100 years

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/49119832781/in/photolist-2hQxYUq-2hQvpw4-2hQvpwK-2hQyYEX-2hQxYYD/" title="Shozaburo Forged Shears"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49119832781_6dcc75634d_b.jpg" width="576" height="1024" alt="Shozaburo Forged Shears"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

pizza · May 11, 2020

interesting. i didn't realize the tool steel was stainless for the hard blade model.
that comparison table from scissors.jp made me assume otherwise. under the maintenance row, it rates the hard blade model and the standard models (possibly made of white steel / hakugami?) equivalently as "medium", and the "stainless smoother model" scissors got the "easy" maintenance rating.

and between the standard and standard-deluxe, i'm assuming standard-deluxe is made entirely of white steel (except the handle)?

stainless or not, i think i'm going for the hard blade tool steel model as my first pair since they'll stand up to some abuse. if it doesn't cut fabric as smoothly as i like, i'll get a standard or standard-deluxe pair later.

thanks for sharing pics, and i have seen your video already. this is how i know about shozaburo.

doesn't get much sexier looking than that. idk why they put that bling bling gold joint on the standard but not standard-deluxe :dunno:

Reed Prince · May 11, 2020

American Locomotive said:
I can't comment on that brand, but I recently bought a few pairs (in different sizes) of the Kai 7000 series scissors. Made in Japan. Hands down the nicest and sharpest pair of scissors I have ever used.

Love my Kai 7250L scissors. Favorite pair.

Reed Prince · May 13, 2020

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