Why is it so hard to choose a drill press

lalojamesliz · Jun 4, 2020

Hey guys
At first i was looking for a older quality drill press but i couldn't find one locally so I began to look at new ones.

The shop fox one looked nice then I read some guys here saying its trash.... next
Then I was looking at the wen 4214 and the jet jwdp-12... and I find the same comments on here
Now I'm looking at the grizzly g4973 but at about $550 shipped its a bit much for me for something thats made in China and not the USA

I need a drill press to drill some 5/16 holes in some camshafts. Im using them as the feet on my V8 coffee table. I know I'll use it on other metals like 1/2 steel plates or small metal pipes but also wood work. I
Its not going to be used very often, probably a few times a month. Im just a active diy guy but I like nice tools that I can pass down to my kids later down the road.

I'm in between los angeles and Fresno in California. I wouldn't mind driving 2-3 hours for a nice drill press.
Does anyone here have one for sale near me or can I get a recommendation? Floor standing or bench top is fine and I'd like to stay under 500 but I know quality costs $$$

lalojamesliz · Jun 4, 2020

This is what I want to use the drill press for. 5/16 holes about 1" deep

Tallpilot · Jun 4, 2020

You have my sympathies. I'm in the same boat. I just want a decent drill press that has spindle speeds slow enough for metal and doesn't need a VFD. I'd also prefer if I didn't need to replace every bearing on it when I get it home.

Good luck to both of us.

lalojamesliz · Jun 4, 2020

I see a Orbit Or-1758
Is that any good? I'm not familiar with what is good enough to drive a few hours away for yet

Downwindtracker 2 · Jun 4, 2020

The common drill press we see is a cheaper copy of the cheap Japanese one that came out in the '70. We expect features at a price we can afford. When I gave up looking for good used one,I bought my POS 17" Jet for $800 CDN, a made in Canada 15" General with the same level of features was well over $2500.

You can buy good new drill presses, they are called mill/drills.

lilredex · Jun 4, 2020

The choice is simple, look for an older import 16 speed model. There are many around under different names. Mine is an older HF #38142 that cost $40. Slow speed is around 220 RPM.

Noworries · Jun 4, 2020

Ditto lilredex... I have a Packard Precision and in my ignorant opinion it is the exact same machine that has been made in the past 40 years or more and sold by jet, delta, harbor freight... bla bla bla. They may look a bit different but look at all the controls... mine was made in 83... and except for the flashy colors and ergonomic handles it looks just like the 800 buck jet import... i bought mine for 30.00 i paid more for that silly cross slide vise

dutchgray · Jun 4, 2020

lilredex said:
The choice is simple, look for an older import 16 speed model. There are many around under different names. Mine is an older HF #38142 that cost $40. Slow speed is around 220 RPM.

I was given a floor standing version of one of those, needs a little work but will be fine, my brother wants to swap for his bench model (but old English made) which is actually one of my drills anyway. They are good drills for a home shop, not the best but they are common and often very cheap used.
You can get industrial sized and capacity drills new, that are made in the first world but they are in the several thousand price range, even then a used Bridgeport mill would be of more use in the home workshop for the money, but there really isn't much in the home workshop size range that isn't from Asia.
If nothing old and good comes up then your best option is the best Asian made you can afford.

seber · Jun 4, 2020

lalojamesliz said:
I see a Orbit Or-1758
Is that any good? I'm not familiar with what is good enough to drive a few hours away for yet

I'm not familiar with the name but that model appears to be a benchtop. Better make sure you have enough working height under the chuck to drill those cams before you make the drive.

Noworries · Jun 4, 2020

lalojamesliz said:
Hey guys
At first i was looking for a older quality drill press but i couldn't find one locally so I began to look at new ones.

The shop fox one looked nice then I read some guys here saying its trash.... next
Then I was looking at the wen 4214 and the jet jwdp-12... and I find the same comments on here
Now I'm looking at the grizzly g4973 but at about $550 shipped its a bit much for me for something thats made in China and not the USA

I need a drill press to drill some 5/16 holes in some camshafts. Im using them as the feet on my V8 coffee table. I know I'll use it on other metals like 1/2 steel plates or small metal pipes but also wood work. I
Its not going to be used very often, probably a few times a month. Im just a active diy guy but I like nice tools that I can pass down to my kids later down the road.

I'm in between los angeles and Fresno in California. I wouldn't mind driving 2-3 hours for a nice drill press.
Does anyone here have one for sale near me or can I get a recommendation? Floor standing or bench top is fine and I'd like to stay under 500 but I know quality costs $$$

Bring thise things down here to Temecula, we can drill and tap it any way you want then go downtown and you can buy me a couple of beers and listen to a band...

lafester · Jun 4, 2020

If you were near CO I would have one for you.

Keep looking, something will turn up.

I just cleaned up a Walker Turner like this one... very solid machine.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/699720854171226/

Packard V8 · Jun 4, 2020

Whoa! First things first. Are your cams steel billet or cast iron??

Have you ever tried to drill a cast iron camshaft? They're harder than the hubs of hell. A friend of mine wanted to cut one and asked me what was wrong with his metal-cutting bandsaw blade; it wouldn't even scratch the cam. I had him bring it over and used my abrasive chop saw to whack it in half.

From the photo, there's the possibility yours are steel billet. I've never cut or drilled one, but it's probable they're pretty hard also. In any case, a drill press is not necessarily the machine of choice for making a centered hole in long round stock. That's really better done in a lathe. If making those three holes is your only foreseeable need for a DP, buy some good beer and find a friend with a lathe.

Finally, if a hole were drilled or bored on a lathe, then it has to be tapped for bolt threads. That may or may not be possible with a hand tap.

jack vines

Noworries · Jun 4, 2020

Packard V8 said:
Whoa! First things first. Are your cams steel billet or cast iron??

Have you ever tried to drill a cast iron camshaft? They're harder than the hubs of hell. A friend of mine wanted to cut one and asked me what was wrong with his metal-cutting bandsaw blade; it wouldn't even scratch the cam. I had him bring it over and used my abrasive chop saw to whack it in half.

From the photo, there's the possibility yours are steel billet. I've never cut or drilled one, but it's probable they're pretty hard also. In any case, a drill press is not necessarily the machine of choice for making a centered hole in long round stock. That's really better done in a lathe. If making those three holes is your only foreseeable need for a DP, buy some good beer and find a friend with a lathe.

Finally, if a hole were drilled or bored on a lathe, then it has to be tapped for bolt threads. That may or may not be possible with a hand tap.

jack vines

There are drill bits specifically designed to drill hardened steel, and I am not talking about the **** they sell at the fair drilling a file, as for tapping... several ways to tackle that frm actually tapping it, and cast iron can be tapped... drilling the hole then filling it in with a mig then drill and tap to simply filling in the hole with jb weld and drill and tap...this is absolutely doable..in my opinion 🖒

seber · Jun 4, 2020

Cast iron drills very easily if you have enough force behind the bit. (or blade) The problem is when trying to cut it with just human force, the cutting edge slides on the carbon wafers. With more force, as with using a drill press, you can dig under them and cutting is easier than steel. As far as steel camshaft, I would assume a steel shaft would be case hardened rather than full hardened tool steel. Tool steel would cost a fortune for the material and machining.

Maui · Jun 4, 2020

Cast iron comes in a variety of grades and hardnesses. The softer grades drill and mill like butter. The harder grades eat tooling rapidly. I agree with Jack that a lathe would be much better suited for the type of work the OP described here.

dubdoc · Jun 4, 2020

STOP listening to the tool elitists on here, pick a good substantial drill press you can afford and enjoy it. I got a new one at a close out sale for $150 and couldn't be happier. It's a drill press, for Pete's sake. You and I aren't brain surgeons.

bdbecker · Jun 4, 2020

Tasked with picking out a new drill press for general use in our weld shop, I know exactly what you are talking about. If its any consolation, I ended up getting that same Grizzly drill press you mentioned. Honestly, its pretty well built. No issues with it after nearly a year being used daily by multiple people. If you aren't in a hurry, they do go on sale every now and then.

Noworries · Jun 4, 2020

dubdoc said:
STOP listening to the tool elitists on here, pick a good substantial drill press you can afford and enjoy it. I got a new one at a close out sale for $150 and couldn't be happier. It's a drill press, for Pete's sake. You and I aren't brain surgeons.

Tool elitists..i like that i would venture to say the average if not the majority of folks dont have the ability OR even the need to drill a hole within 1/64 tollerence so to buy a 500.00+ drill press then swap all the bearings then use a runout to check the spindle... seriously??? As for op question... 4 things are important... swing, will that cam fit in there with a bit chucked up... what are you going to use to clamp that part down with while drilling, and speed/hp of the machine.

I drill hardened steel for a living if you have questions about drilling them message me

dr_clyde · Jun 4, 2020

dubdoc said:
STOP listening to the tool elitists on here, pick a good substantial drill press you can afford and enjoy it. I got a new one at a close out sale for $150 and couldn't be happier. It's a drill press, for Pete's sake. You and I aren't brain surgeons.

I haven't heard any tool elitism in this thread. Most people seem to be recommending an older imported unit.

To the OP, purchasing tools and equipment is a balance between what you can afford and quality of the unit. I tend to buy the best I can get my hands on because cheap machines frustrate the hell out of me. I have bought the vast majority of my equipment and machines used from dealers or at auctions for pennies on the dollar. The downside of this method is it takes a long time sometimes to find the right deal on the right tool. But I usually find what I'm looking for eventually.

Some guys here can't afford or justify good, high end equipment and make do with less. And that's fine.

But let's not pretend that the basic rule of buying machines and tools isn't "you get what you pay for".

lalojamesliz · Jun 4, 2020

Wow guys! Thank you for all of the great advice. I've been busy since I started this thread earlier.
My mother in law passed Monday and now we are cleaning up her place to sell.
I believe the cams are billet because I cut them easily with my 4.5" grinder with a cut off wheel.

"Noworries" thank you for the offer but your like 3.5hrs away ha ha ha

But yeah as some of you guys say just keep a eye out for a good one. I really wanted it soon to drill and tap the cams now to finish up my table but I need to be smart about it.
Well if anyone runs across a good one and doesn't need it themselves, please let me know

darkzero · Jun 4, 2020

I kind of went through the same thing. I've had a $100 8" Craftsman for 20 yrs. Always wanted something better. Good old drill presses around here are either in far worse condition than I would like or sellers want way too much money.

Last year I ended buying a Wen 4214, older generation that was yellow. I know people will say not much of an upgrade except for the size as it's still a cheap Chinese DP. I don't have need to use a DP much & I only have room for a benchtop model. With that said this 12" is larger than I needed so I shortened it. But I did make an adapter to go back to stock height if I ever needed. I just finished rebuilding it a couple of weeks ago along with new bearings.

I never posted all the work I did to it here as most people here will probably say it's junk, they would never own one, & I wasted my time rebuilding it. But in the end I'm happy with it, until something else might come my way. Get whatever your budget allows & whatever you'll be happy with.

2oolhound · Jun 4, 2020

I waited and waited for the right one for over a year and finally bought a used fairly new taiwanese DP, 17 1/2", 1HP, 3/4" chuck with 3 pulleys up top so there is 16 speeds. It's been a good machine and gets used a lot. I'm happier just having a decent DP than I am about just what kind it is.

Your billet cams will have been hardened. They even look like they are nikasil coated. Cutting them with a zip disc (grinding) is different than drilling (cutting). You will probably need to grind 1/8" off with a die grinder before you can drill.

Prospecter · Jun 4, 2020

FWIW: My understanding is that Shop Fox is just rebranded Grizzley.

I have an older one of the Taiwan models already pictured. An older Craftsman, like the ones on the thread on here, and also an old Walker Turner. The WT isn't a bad design, but needs some work. The Craftsman was an estate find for $50. The Taiwan was a fellow making room in his shop. $125. The Taiwan has the most features, cheapest chuck, and most run out. Works well for wood. The Craftsman is my favorite, partly because it is the most precise and works the best, and partly due to its provenance. The WT has sentimental value.

If I had to buy new, I'd probably just go Harbor Freight.

lafester · Jun 4, 2020

The main thing is to get a good deal. Once you buy one another will pop up, and then another and so on. Just keep trading up and all is good.

lilredex · Jun 5, 2020

Darkzero.... What are the details on that DP? That drive pulley looks like the one thousands of us are looking for, to repair our Delta DP 350's.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361018

darkzero · Jun 5, 2020

lilredex said:
Darkzero.... What are the details on that DP? That drive pulley looks like the one thousands of us are looking for, to repair our Delta DP 350's.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361018

It's a on older yellow generation Wen 4214. Wen still makes the 4214 & is orange orange now. Some parts differ than the older one but mostly cosmetic. The drive system should still be the same.

12", reeves drive obviously, 500ish to 3000-ish RPM. Same design as the Jet JDP-12/JWDP-12. Ryobi made one similar as well as Rikon but I believe the Rikon has a different pulley arrangement. Porter cable has 15" Reeves drive model which might also be another possibility for you guys. Wen also makes a 10" & 15" with Reeves drive.

Mine uses a 10mm wide belt. What's the size on that pulley you guys are looking for, diameter & bore? I can check mine to see if it's the same.

Edit: Just looked up the 15" models, they have a different pulley set up for 2 speed ranges.

lalojamesliz · Jun 5, 2020

Any good guys?
https://offerup.co/mSWsx0Y046
Journeyman c112 1/2 hp
The guy is asking 200 but that sounds a little high....i don't know though

Steve_P · Jun 5, 2020

Camshafts are going to be >RC 50. You will need to grind both sides unless you are using solid carbide bits. And that might not work either.
I have a floor standing Delta I bought new ~15 yrs ago so I've been thru the same search. IIRC I paid $650 for it. I only use it a few times a year, but I just used it an hour ago.

darkzero · Jun 5, 2020

lalojamesliz said:
Any good guys?
https://offerup.co/mSWsx0Y046
Journeyman c112 1/2 hp
The guy is asking 200 but that sounds a little high....i don't know though

That's kind of what I mean. Often overpriced here in Cali just like bench vises. I personally would not pay $200 for that but that's just me.

lalojamesliz · Jun 5, 2020

darkzero said:
That's kind of what I mean. Often overpriced here in Cali just like bench vises. I personally would not pay $200 for that but that's just me.

What do you think its worth? Is it a good reliable drill press or should I just keep looking?

darkzero · Jun 5, 2020

lalojamesliz said:
What do you think its worth? Is it a good reliable drill press or should I just keep looking?

Honestly I have no idea, never heard of the brand. I wouldn't even pay $100 for that. I did briefly look at San Luis Obispo & Fresno listings (not sure if you're willing to drive that far) & saw some better looking than that for about the same price or less but they were old listings. Figured those cities might have more to offer than Bakersfield?

You looking for benchtop or floor standing? Probably best to look at a 12 speed, will have slower speeds better for metal rather than 5 speed.

lalojamesliz · Jun 5, 2020

Yeah thats not too far. 2 hours roughly.
A floor standing sounds nicer than the bench top since I'll need to build a bench for it ha ha ha but ill be happy with either one.
I'll have to look harder

lilredex · Jun 6, 2020

darkzero said:
It's a on older yellow generation Wen 4214. Wen still makes the 4214 & is orange orange now. Some parts differ than the older one but mostly cosmetic. The drive system should still be the same.

12", reeves drive obviously, 500ish to 3000-ish RPM. Same design as the Jet JDP-12/JWDP-12. Ryobi made one similar as well as Rikon but I believe the Rikon has a different pulley arrangement. Porter cable has 15" Reeves drive model which might also be another possibility for you guys. Wen also makes a 10" & 15" with Reeves drive.

Mine uses a 10mm wide belt. What's the size on that pulley you guys are looking for, diameter & bore? I can check mine to see if it's the same.

Edit: Just looked up the 15" models, they have a different pulley set up for 2 speed ranges.

Thank-you for your reply and that info. I have found this parts sheet...

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1193321/Wen-4214.html?page=21

The pulley of interest is 4 1/2" diameter and fits on the motor shaft of 15MM. Belt is 1/2" wide.

darkzero · Jun 6, 2020

lilredex said:
Thank-you for your reply and that info. I have found this parts sheet...

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1193321/Wen-4214.html?page=21

The pulley of interest is 4 1/2" diameter and fits on the motor shaft of 15MM. Belt is 1/2" wide.

No problem. I just went out & measured it.

Pulley is just about 4-1/2", mine was 4.45" to be exact. Motor shaft is 14mm though. But looks like there's plenty of room to bore it out to 15mm. Not sure if you have access to a lathe. If you were closer I could do it for you. But again mine uses a 10mm/3/8" wide belt.

Ordering parts from Wen is actually pretty stress free. Their prices are pretty cheap as well as their shipping costs. They have pretty much everything in stock in IL. They shipped quick. And the person who took my order was very knowledgable about the parts/machines. Even was nice enough to recommend me some good Chicago food near where I live. I'm not affiliated with Wen/GLT or anything like that, just sharing my experience which surprised me.

To give you an idea. Here's the drive pulleys for the 10". I'm not sure if it's the same but the 10" has the same speed ranges as the 12". Regardless give them a call if you want to try ordering one for the 4214. They don't list all their replacement parts on their website. This is just an example of their pricing.

https://wenproducts.com/products/4212b-015-motor-fixed-pulley?_pos=15&_sid=3b05422a4&_ss=r

https://wenproducts.com/products/4212b-016-motor-movable-pulley?_pos=14&_sid=3b05422a4&_ss=r

If you do order one, I'd love to hear if it works out for you.

Why is it so hard to choose a drill press

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