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My experiences modding my own drill battery packs

sams

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Like many people I killed my cheap Ni-cads in no time for my drill. Being the forgetfull type and not having an auto off does that. So over time I repacked my cheapo Ryobi 14.4V with various options each with a greater success. It went in this order:

- 12 x Ni-mh AA cells soldered in series: worked ok for quite a while but I had some issues with cells eventually, I don't think they liked the high current load or being soldered. Gave a reasonable increase in torque.

- 4 x 3.6V Lithium Ion cells out of a laptop battery taken apart: very good gain in torque over the Ni-mh cells and lasted quite a reasonable time per charge, I only used this a very short time before converting my second battery pack to whats below;

- 8 x 3.6V lithium cells as above but 4 pairs in series for a total of 8 (2P x 4S): this gave the same torque as above however the charge life was very long, it was about 6x the original pack. This went well and all but it didn't take long to start showing signs of dying. I think it was the combination of too much current and me doing the poor practice of charging all the cells in series without equalising the individual cell voltages.

- Lastly the next step was a huge upgrade, I used one of these:

battery-pack.jpg


It's a 5A/h 14.8V Lithium Polymer/Li-Po battery pack made for large aeroplanes and simular.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9177

It was cheap and easy to source from the above link. I had to chop two holes in both ends of the battery housing to fit it in however I plan on making an Aluminium enclousure to house it. With 5A/h compared to the 1.5 - 2A/h that's normal on the top end drills and my original of 1.2A/h it has some serious storage. The torque increase was so massive that I literally burnt part of my hand when trying to stop it in the faster gear when before I could do so with my index finger and thumb previously. I have been concerned about breaking the gearbox with the sheer extra grunt but so far it's held up. I gave it hell and tried drilling a 10mm (3/8") hole through a thick steel plate. I came to a point where it got hot enough that a small amount of smoke came out. So it's obviously working much harder than it's designed for, this is ok though as I just let it cool down a bit before getting to this point, I use the heat of the handle to know. I still manage to do a lot of work with it though and I did my kitchen with it winding screws into some very hard old framework wood.

I have also done the same thing with my dewalt drill, cordless angle grinder, dewalt drill, dewalt impact gun, leaf blower and line trimmer.

If people are interested I can post more of my experiences with those and show some pics.
 
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R6 Racer

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Yes!
Please do!
I have an old 9v Dewalt that both batteries died in a few years ago. New ones are priced ridiculously but I can't bear to throw away the drill!
I have that problem with tools!
 
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sams

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excellent, I wouldn't want to throw away tools either. I can particullarly understand with a Dewalt. Now Li-Po batteries come in the voltages of multiples of 3.7 so its like this:

1 cell = 3.7 V
2 cell = 7.2 V
3 cell = 11.1V
4 cell = 14.8V
5 cell = 18.5V
6 cell = 22.2V

Unfortunetly your inbetween sizes so you would either need to pick 7.4V or 11.1V, now if you go 11.1V you will want to be pretty confident that it has a tough gearbox and that it won't be let heat up too much. It will get hot quick and would have to be carefull with it. The other option is a twin cell at 7.4V which is highly likely to still give you more torque than the original despite the reduced voltage. So if you want a big power increase and only use it for short periods then the 3 cell or for continous good useage 2 cells.

To pick a battery Hobby city seems to be the best place, I have purchased all my gear from them. They have a battery selector here:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/lithium_polymer_battery_configuration.asp

The Turnigy Li-Po cells have a very good repuation and are cheap, the 20C ones offer all the current load you would ever need too.

Looking at it all the batteries are long so it's highly likely they will stick out of either end of your housing, that said I noticed there is a 7.4V 5A/H with a hard case

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10098

check out the price too $20!!, you will also need a charger which by memory is $35

I suggest as a first step get your old battery pack and carefully take it apart. from measure what you think can fit in there and go through the battery selector and chose the onethat should fit with the highest capacity. I will edit some pics to show what I did.
 

MadMark

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What is the size of the cells in the 14.8V pack? C or D?
Do they have tabs to solder?
I'd love to see picks
Thanks for the info and link.
 

kbs2244

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I do this with my DeWalts.
But I have never made that big an AH increase.

Keeping a fit into the chargers has been a concern also.

I, too, would like to see more details.
Do you go to custom chargers?
 

BackTracker

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I have to say, that is pretty damn awesome. I have a lithium 24v ridgid and one of the two batteries has $#!t the bed.
 
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sams

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MadMark: they have flat cells that go the whole length of that pack. They come exactly like the picture in my first post, however I change the plug to a different type. So internally they have the cells layed on top of each other which at the end poke through a circuit board and are soldered into place. The catch is that there is no way you would want to re-arange whats under that shrink wrap and even if you did you culdn't make it shorter.

kbs2244: the charger becomes unusable unless you mod that too, which wouldn't be hard to do. as for me I just throw them out, I unplug the pack and plug it directly into my charger, what I have done might be a whole lot less elegant that you expect. Here is an example:

battery-repack06.jpg


as you can see I have a soldered fly lead off the original battery terminals which I plug into my battary pack, that little plug is the balance plug, that gets put directly into the side of the charger. I guess in theory you could make it fully enclosed with just the small balance plug sticking out. I admit this is a pretty rough job here and no suited for people who throw their tools into a pile in the back of their van, but it works for me.

BackTracker: the highest voltage in one pack is 22.2V (6 cells) but that should work really well for you. by memory it's about $60 USD for one of them. Now by request here are some of the pics that I am putting on my website, I hope you wern't expecting anything decent.

battery-repack01.jpg


battery-repack02.jpg


battery-repack03.jpg


battery-repack04.jpg
 
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sams

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no I haven't, I beleive they only do so with very high currents. Using my power analiser I found my leaf blower uses 250W, so 13.5A constant draw. My battery pack is rated at 20C & 5A/h, so 5A x 20 = 100A total max current draw. I used my leaf blower non stop for 20 min and the pack was only mildly warm to touch.
 
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kbs2244

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I have pretty well standardized on DeWalt 12VDC.
They are light and they are powerful enough for what I do.

I do not find it a problem to swap battery packs during a job.
I have a lot of battery packs that I have re-celled and I use the standard DeWalt chargers.

If you are doing something that will prolong my work time between battery swaps I guess I would be interested.

But I would want to keep the standard battery form, fit and function.
As well as the standard charger.

Just for the ease of use sake.

But I could be convinced otherwise.
If it was worth it.
When it comes to tools, I am a user, not an engineering perfectionist
 

BillK

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Sam,
I suggest you do some research on the lipo packs. They require a charger that will sense the voltage of each cell and balance them as it is charging them. They are used in Radio Control model airplanes and helicopters and can be very dangerous if not charged properly. One of the guys on the RC Heli site recently had his house burn to the ground because of a Lipo fire while charging.

Its your choice, but if you are going to use them, at least use them and charge them properly. The house you save might be your own :(
 
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sams

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kbs2244: it's probably not for you then unless you are paying a lot of money for your repacking (what does that cost anyway?) or you want a very significant gain in capacity.

BillK: indeed your right, and I wouldnt dare using anything bar a fully regulated self balancing charger. It's pictured in this labelled as (7) in the picture below and uses 12V as an input.

battery-repack01.jpg


Denominator: a very interesting point you have there, next time I have run one of my packs down a bit I will see what voltage I have on them. However I am pretty confident it will be fine as the Li-Po packs have a very constant voltage output untill right at the end of their charge, after this it drops off quick. So as soon as I start to feel it dropping off I stop immediately.


keep the info/suggestions coming guys, this is great

-Sam
 
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sams

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yeah alright, thanks for the info, I will do some checks and post my results. I know all brushless motor controllers have an automatic 2.9V lower cell cut off, for a 5 cell like mine thats 4V, but I know that's an absolute lowest threshhold.
 

Denominator

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Thats the problem with these batteries, thay perform the max intill the end, then they are way under the low voltage cutoff at 3.3v pr cell. 2 cell battery 6.6v LVC and so on. I run these batteries in all my rc cars and planes, and you do need a LVC unit, if you feel the battery not performing as in the start, the chance is you are under the voltage limit a long time ago.


If a Lithium Polymer battery is overcharged it may become an explosive fireball spewing chemicals at
very high temperatures. You MUST utilize a charger specifically designed to charge Lithium Polymer batteries. Check and double-check to be certain that the manual cell count selector, if your charger has one, is correctly set for the specific battery being charged. Example: 2S= 2 cells or 7.4 Volts. 3S= 3 cells or 11.1 Volts.
Use of a Lipo sack is highly recommended.
Most Lithium Polymer batteries should not be charged at rates higher than 1C (1 x Capacity). unless specified.
Do Not fully discharge Lithium Polymer batteries. The low voltage threshold for discharge (under a load) is 3.0 volts per cell. Allowing either cell in the pack to drop below this voltage will irreversibly damage its internal chemistry and possibly explode.
Always store Lithium Polymer batteries in a fireproof container!
Do Not use packs that appear to be damaged, warped, swollen or otherwise appear different than their like-new condition.
 
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sams

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yeah ok thanks for the info. As in post #16 I am using the Turnigy charger, it equalises the cells and can charge at no more than 5A anyway. I manually select the cells but it also double checks this.

Now whats a "Lipo sack"
 

kbs2244

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I get a 2 pack of Ni-Mh battery , standard C size battery . 1.2V , 5500 mAh capacity.

Priced at $14.95 for a pack of two batteries.

I check each cell in the pack and replace only the bad one.
 

gatchel

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Every battery chemistry has an optimum charge rate, charge curve, and maintenace voltage. If you are not using the proper charger you are definitely asking for a fire as others have mentioned. Be Careful.
 

gatchel

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see post #10, #16 and #20

Interesting. I like to see how it equalizes the packs with only two wires connected. Or does it charge through the white "extra" connector and the red and black wires are for power.

Not being critical here...just want to understand how this fully works as I like to concept and may borrow it in the future for my own pack hacking.


Edit- Nevermind. Went to the link you provided and it listed the charge connector was different from the power connector...
 
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sams

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the little white connector plugs directly into the charger itself and it automaticly equalises the volatges, which I think is neat. Although these leads are more prone to getting damaged than the others due to their smaller size. I will get you a pic specificly of that part of the charger.
 

BackTracker

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I love it. I have the rigid 24v power tools which they quit making and I just spent a cool hundred bucks on an ebay battery. I'm feeling pretty discouraged about the whole "not being able to find batteries when the supply runs out" thing. But this is giving me hope! I absolutely love the tools So this gives me incentive to keep them around for a while. Thanks!
 
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sams

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good to hear. I guess I should add to my article that to not be afraid of going under in voltage. For yourself I would suggest 6 cells- 22.2V for your 24V packs. You would still end up with much more torque.
 
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