Welcome to the The Garage Journal Board forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   The Garage Journal Board > The Garage > General Garage Discussion

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2017, 08:35 AM   #21
Thirdyfivepickup
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Portage, Indiana
Posts: 89
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexb2000 View Post
Unless this was my absolute dream home, I would walk.
man... I agree with alexb.

Although this could possibly be leverage to renegotiate the contract and get the house cheaper...
Thirdyfivepickup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 08:37 AM   #22
jmvar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Lots of great responses, and difficult choices for us to make. The house is very close to being our dream home, it will be our dream home once we make the changes we want to make.

The HOA is active, my realtor emailed them and they replied back very quickly. They say the membership fee is voluntary but the lawyer I am working with tells me the rules are absolutely enforceable. The membership fee is $50 per year.

The plan of action is to require the sellers to get an estoppel certificate from the HOA stating that:

1. There are no dues or assessments current due from the seller(s) or assessed against the property through the date of closing.
2. That the HOA has either a) approved all changes to structures or installations as they presently exist on the property or b) waived compliance with the HOA covenant for all such structures/installations as of closing.

I will be speaking to my lawyer tonight to see what my risks are assuming all goes well with the estoppel certificate.
jmvar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-13-2017, 08:42 AM   #23
kTHREE
Member
 
kTHREE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: MN
Posts: 68
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Having rented townhomes and single family homes in HOA's for over 15 years, I made sure to buy a house this spring without an HOA.

I get it, when they work, they work well. When the HOA gets taken over by Mrs. Nosey empty nester, shit starts to go down and quick. Never mind that fact that your PAYING the HOA for this! WTF.

Absolutely beyond me why anyone would allow such control over your own residence FOREVER.
__________________
My First Garage™ Playset
kTHREE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 08:42 AM   #24
Paycheck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

I would wonder what else the realtor failed to disclose.
Paycheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 08:54 AM   #25
ThatSickRip
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 57
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieK View Post
I would walk away. The HOA could be nice and accommodating today, but you have no idea who will be voted in later...
Bingo. And then add in if you have a managing company for the HOA as well. So now you have board and a managing company to deal with. I regret buying my condo 7 years ago as the HOA rates have almost doubled since then, and the BOD are a bunch of idiots. And the kicker is now the President of the board (her husband is a member also) are pushing to set a percentage limit on how many units can be rentals, yet they dont live at their property and rent theirs out

Im glad we bought a house and moved out of the condo, but still owning it, I have an uphill battle to fight to keep it rentable.
ThatSickRip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 08:54 AM   #26
My Old Tools
Senior Member
 
My Old Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Quinlan, TX
Posts: 2,043
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

I have lived with two HOAs. One of their sole purpose was to maintain the private road. No architectural committees, no other rules other than a minimum of 1200 SF and no manufactured housing. The other has responsibility to maintain the lake, the gate, and the roads and common areas. Again nothing to do with your private property. We did get them to raise the minimum house size from 800 SF to 1500 SF at the last meeting. This is an old lake and a lot of the cabins will likely be torn down and replaced in a few years. Our main home has no HOA, just deed restrictions. They are generally followed but not policed. All of the homes are nice and well maintained, and virtually all have a detached shop. I generally say no HOAs, but I really mean no architectural committees (what do they know anyway) and no arbitrary day to day rules about grass, trash cans, etc.

See what the rules say about changing the rules. One of my HOAs tried to change the rules and I refused to sign it. They eventually withdrew it.
__________________
Ross
www.myoldtools.com

Last edited by My Old Tools; 07-13-2017 at 08:57 AM.
My Old Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 08:56 AM   #27
Eslader
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 399
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvar View Post
I am still nervous some busybody can come at any point in the future and tell us to tear it all down.
They can try, but won't get anywhere. The time for them to have objected to it was during or shortly after construction. I wouldn't be concerned about that. It's even possible that it was built before the HOA formed in which case it was grandfathered in. If they haven't done anything about it yet, they aren't going to and would be laughed out of court if they tried.


Quote:
but that is all so vague that it could get denied for any reason.
You should go around and interview neighbors. Make sure they're neighbors who are not on the HOA board. Ask them how much of a pain in the ass the HOA is. A lot of HOAs are fine - they write the rules tight so that when the meth head moves in and starts building cook sheds out of pallets he stole from Home Depot they have an air tight case to make him stop.

HOAs get a bad rap because a few of them are run by little dictators who like messing with people, and someone in the neighborhood tells the internet about it, but the majority of them are not like that.

And even the ones that are tend to be chickenshit about it. If you go to them asking for permission to do something they'll put you through the wringer because they think it's fun. If you just build it they'll say nothing because they're afraid of confrontation and know that they're on shaky legal ground if their charter isn't written air-tight, which most of them aren't.

Quote:
- who screwed up here? My thought is that it is the seller's agent
HOA should have been in the listing, especially if it collects dues (some do in order to maintain community property like wells and snow plowing).

Quote:
My thought is to have a local real estate lawyer read through the HOA documents and explain my risk in the situation of the garage and fence and have the current owner foot the bill. Am I being unreasonable?
I think so, yes. You can certainly have a lawyer look at it if it makes you feel better, but expecting him to pay for it is out of line. You don't buy a used car and expect the seller to pay for the pre-purchase inspection either.

I personally am a fan of well-run HOAs. The alternative is that your neighbor might turn his property into a junk yard, and I know that the prevailing attitude is "let people do what they want with their own property," but when it comes time for me to sell mine, if the 13 rusty cars growing weeds in your front yard get in the way of my sale, I'm not going to be happy.

The trick is that you need to attend the HOA meetings, be active, and if necessary get yourself on the board. A lot of abusive HOAs get away with it because no one pays any attention to what they're doing until it's too late.
Eslader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:14 AM   #28
ford33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Chicago, IL. USA
Posts: 789
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

HOA's are good to have in a neighborhood. They keep things orderly and prevent people from trashing the neighborhood. I have multiple properties in HOA communities and I am director of one HOA.

A $50 per year fee is very low which indicates this is not a very involved association. Still, they have rules and regulations which can be enforced. You need to understand what involvement they have in your community.

First, draft an email to the president of the HOA explaining you are considering buying this house. Ask your questions in a short direct format. This is a volunteer position and the president doesn't have time to read your two page long letter of questions. Explain you are new to HOA living and want to understand certain aspects of the rules. Provide examples and ask if this is allowed.

I would delay closing until this issue is cleared away.

Some people here state HOA's are horrible and would never live in one. The feeling works both ways. I would not want to live next to some of the people who write on this board.
ford33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:17 AM   #29
ChaseDE
Senior Member
 
ChaseDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Delaware
Posts: 900
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

HA! $50 a year is great, ours runs about $280 a year but they are really good about just about everything. Snow removal is super fast, all the common areas and parks are always landscaped, roads are county property and maintained by DOT but the HOA will HOUND THEM until potholes get fixed, new signs, paint, street lights fixed fast, etc. They also pay to have green-lawn or whoever come and spray fertilizer on everyone's yards at the beginning of the season one time each year....er I think that is what it is....haha
__________________
I build websites, so if you need one let me know!
ChaseWeb.biz
ChaseDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:27 AM   #30
idriveahonda
Member
 
idriveahonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 83
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Hell mine is $600 per year, and there are absolutely ZERO amenities...NONE.
__________________
1992 Acura Integra - work in progress
idriveahonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:35 AM   #31
ThatSickRip
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 57
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by idriveahonda View Post
Hell mine is $600 per year, and there are absolutely ZERO amenities...NONE.
Mines $300 per month, and all we get is water, but it is a condo building so there is exterior maintenance and roof. $300 is still to damn much for that but Im in the process of trying to get on their financial planning committee and working my way in from there
ThatSickRip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:37 AM   #32
ChaseDE
Senior Member
 
ChaseDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Delaware
Posts: 900
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by idriveahonda View Post
Hell mine is $600 per year, and there are absolutely ZERO amenities...NONE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatSickRip View Post
Mines $300 per month, and all we get is water, but it is a condo building so there is exterior maintenance and roof. $300 is still to damn much for that but Im in the process of trying to get on their financial planning committee and working my way in from there

Good lawd thats-alotta-money. Where you guys live? the Hamptons?
__________________
I build websites, so if you need one let me know!
ChaseWeb.biz
ChaseDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:38 AM   #33
crewchief888
Senior Member
 
crewchief888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW indiana
Posts: 11,074
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTTSGT View Post
Whether you asked about it or not, I would think this would fall under failure to disclose by the realtor.
^^^^
My thoughts as well.

I'd be getting out of any signed contract. And getting any Ernest money refunded.

Time for a new real estate agent as well



__________________
I'm a legend in my spare time
crewchief888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:44 AM   #34
idriveahonda
Member
 
idriveahonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 83
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatSickRip View Post
Mines $300 per month, and all we get is water, but it is a condo building so there is exterior maintenance and roof. $300 is still to damn much for that but Im in the process of trying to get on their financial planning committee and working my way in from there
Condo's are different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseDE View Post
Good lawd thats-alotta-money. Where you guys live? the Hamptons?
VB, VA

Gotta get to the meetings and bluntly ask "what am I getting for all this money, because I don't see it".
__________________
1992 Acura Integra - work in progress
idriveahonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 09:50 AM   #35
red61cj5
Senior Member
 
red61cj5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Doddridge Co, WV
Posts: 305
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Just throwing this out there, but the BDK killer, I forgot his name, was a big HOA guy, always going around measuring grass and shit like that. Just saying
red61cj5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 10:02 AM   #36
Parrothead
Senior Member
 
Parrothead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,535
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

There's a lot of truth in most of these posts. You can get your earnest money back, that shouldn't be a problem once you tell the listing agent about their mistake and how it was a fundamental decision in purchasing the house. Then it's between the seller and listing agent if the sellers get the same amount to keep. It will will likely be covered by the listing agents insurance. Depending on state, the listing agent might have to appear before the state licensing board.

But the earnest money can't make you whole again, as you sold your house in order to purchase this one and are now homeless. Take the listing agent to court, you'll likely be compensated for not being whole.

If you're concerned about the HOA at all...walk. You'll grumble about it for the rest of your time there.
__________________
It ain't easy being cheesy
Parrothead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 10:25 AM   #37
vavet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Mechanicsville, VA
Posts: 369
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Real estate listings are notoriously wrong, inaccurate, incomplete, etc. They claim they are so busy and they have an assistant or intern working on these mundane admin tasks. Well..they're important.
We looked at a house a few years ago that was clearly listed as having a heat pump. In reality, it had gas heat and a separate air conditioning unit. It didn't matter to me because that's actually what I preferred, but who knows how many potential buyers they fended off because someone said "my house MUST have gas heat."

HOAs are not a bad thing for several reason, many already mentioned here. Yes, I think it's stupid to get a nastygram beacuse my trash can sat on the street for an extra day, but I also don't want to look at my neighbor's trash can setting on the street all week.

Subdivisions (and their cooresponding HOAs) can be established anywhere. If I own 10 acres, I might decide I want to sell off five 1 acre lots. You can bet your butt I'm going to set up an HOA to have some control over who moves in next door to me and around me. In fact, we bought into a subdivision about 15 years ago that was exactly the case. We didn't know until we came to closing that it was in an HOA. There were about 5 lots. Once we saw the covenants, we were quite satisfied with them. House colors had to be muted, but color changes did not require approval. Couldn't remove more than 50% of trees over a certain size. Any auxllary structures had to meet the overall design and appearance of the main dwelling. It was all stuff like that.

My advice -look at the covenants and see if you can live with them. get something in writing from the HOA that grants approval (either a record of approval or a retro-active approval) of the garage.
vavet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 10:25 AM   #38
K13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St. Albert, AB Canada
Posts: 965
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrothead View Post
There's a lot of truth in most of these posts. You can get your earnest money back, that shouldn't be a problem once you tell the listing agent about their mistake and how it was a fundamental decision in purchasing the house. Then it's between the seller and listing agent if the sellers get the same amount to keep. It will will likely be covered by the listing agents insurance. Depending on state, the listing agent might have to appear before the state licensing board.

But the earnest money can't make you whole again, as you sold your house in order to purchase this one and are now homeless. Take the listing agent to court, you'll likely be compensated for not being whole.

If you're concerned about the HOA at all...walk. You'll grumble about it for the rest of your time there.
He said his house hasn't sold yet.
K13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 10:44 AM   #39
LB-1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Wa. / Northwestern Il.
Posts: 4,233
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

7/13/17, 08:37 AM #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvar View Post
Lots of great responses, and difficult choices for us to make. The house is very close to being our dream home, it will be our dream home once we make the changes we want to make.

The HOA is active, my realtor emailed them and they replied back very quickly. They say the membership fee is voluntary but the lawyer I am working with tells me the rules are absolutely enforceable. The membership fee is $50 per year.

The plan of action is to require the sellers to get an estoppel certificate from the HOA stating that:

1. There are no dues or assessments current due from the seller(s) or assessed against the property through the date of closing.

2. That the HOA has either a) approved all changes to structures or installations as they presently exist on the property or b) waived compliance with the HOA covenant for all such structures/installations as of closing.

I will be speaking to my lawyer tonight to see what my risks are assuming all goes well with the estoppel certificate.
Good luck moving forward, Now would be the time to inquire as to your future exterior upgrades as well.
LB-1911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 11:06 AM   #40
ard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sierra Foothills... California
Posts: 1,186
Default Re: Closing on a house with no HOA...wait there is an HOA....

Hmmm.

I've lived in a rural, high end subdivision for 23years with CC&Rs and an HOA. The HOA is active, I am the president. So let me give you some advice.

If it is in the C&Rs it CAN be used against you.

Reading the OPs first post, the section on ACC approval is VERY lenient- it states a bunch of stuff you can bud WITHOUT explicit ACC approval. It appears that only if you EXCEED THE DESCRIBED CONSTRUCTION ALLOOWANCES you must then get ACC approval.

To protect yourself you MUST get a clearance letter from the HOA. "All structures on Lot XYZ are approved and there are no CC&R violations as of [date]". Alternatively, the current owners could indemnify you. (This would mean they agree to accept financial responsibility if there are violations.). This latter would never happen.

Edit: if they did get an ACC approval for the current garage, just get a copy of that letter.

The real bind is if the HOA is basically defunct, and not really operational...this can be very dangerous. Why? Becuase stuff may have been sliding by, no real approvals- then someone decides to reconstitute the Board, start throwing their weight around, and next thing you know, stuff that was fine for years is on the chopping block. Yes, in a legal challenge youi might win, but that might be many tens of thousands of dollars later.

So, OP- you need to find out if there is a function HOA and you MUST interact with them (or your realtor and the current owner must).... Your need to know that that current garage is either (a) approved as a secondary structure, or (b) considered a "2 car garage" under the CC7R allowance. DO NOT TAKE ANYONES WORD ON THIS- not the realtor, not the current owner- this must be from the HOA.

If there isn't a functioning HOA, it is more of a challenge. You should get a legal opinion- demand that the two realtors pay for YOUR attorney our their cut- they F'd this up- and it should not be their buddy either.

I am a big believer in a reasonable HOA. Many are not.
ard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 PM.