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Old 02-10-2015, 04:24 PM   #4081
Jlbc212
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

Even though a car, such as a BMW, may be clean burning, it is consuming oxygen. Jack may have a "leaky" garage allowing enough O2 in, hence no change in the carbon monoxide level. If the available oxygen level becomes depleted, insufficient combustion can occur resulting in the production of Carbon monoxide. It is always a good idea when running an engine inside a garage to keep a door open and to have a carbon monoxide detector in the garage.
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:52 PM   #4082
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

Not to scare folks, but if I could add......

CO is something not to be messed with. It is odourless and tasteless. Prior to retirement, I work a few decades for a local natural gas utility. Responding to gas emergencies, I have been involved with and witnessed far too many incidents where people have suffered from CO poisoning due to lack of maintenance, faulty appliances, venting, etc.

One needs to be careful with CO. This shit can kill you.

My experience has been that CO is lighter than air. We always detected slightly higher concentrations at the ceiling. Our business rule was, we do not enter a home if the concentrations at the front door were above 100 PPM. I had to give a few of the guys shit for trying to be the bloody hero and entering a building with higher concentrations. Our business practice was to turn off the gas supply, encourage the people to leave the building and hire a qualified gas contractor to make repairs. Believe it or not, some people would just turn on the their gas without repairs. If we had a subsequent call for CO, the gas meter was then removed.

As an example, a home with a modern high efficiency boiler exhausting out the side of a home. The appliance was over sized for the application and it was short cycling. The appliance was very "dirty" until it was at full operation temps - high CO levels being dumped out the exhaust. The neighbor immediately adjacent always had their second story bathroom window open because they didn't have a bathroom exhaust fan. With the house having a slightly negative air pressure, it sucked the CO right in the bathroom window. Same floor as the bedrooms. CO detector was on the first floor. Luckily, this family only ended up spending the night at the local hospital because the entire family of 4 had CO poisoning. Neighbor didn't care about the exhaust and the only practical solution for the homeowner was to have their bathroom window closed.

Note - children are more susceptible to CO poisoning.

The above example was a prefect storm, but shows you how easily CO poisoning can happen.

Please be careful with CO.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) Exposure Limits
PPM, Time, Comments
35 – 50, 8 hours, The maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure in any 8 hour period, according to OSHA.

200, 2 to 3 hrs., Headache (mild)
400, 1 to 2 hrs., Headache (mild)
800, 10 to 15 min., Dizziness, nausea
1600, 20 min., Headache, dizziness, death within 1 hour
3200, 5 – 10 min., Headache, dizziness, death within 1 hour
6400, 1 – 2 min., Headache, dizziness, death within 1 hour
6000 – 8000, 5 min., Incapacitation
12,800, 2 – 3 breaths, Unconsciousness
12,800, 1 – 3 min., Death

Last edited by charlie v; 02-10-2015 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02-10-2015, 05:06 PM   #4083
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

Every year we have people who run generators in the garage so they don't have to go outside to refuel it during a storm. Sadly it will kill an entire family if the garage is attached to the house.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:02 PM   #4084
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

After I installed my Lanair Used Oil Furnace (LINK HERE) in my shop I bought a CO detector and plugged it into an outlet in the shop. The furnace is a typical oil furnace design but I had concerns about the combustion chamber leaking or CO leaking out of the flue pipe joints or barometric damper in the event of a reverse flow for some reason.

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Old 02-10-2015, 07:50 PM   #4085
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

it is important to have CO detectors in any room where sleeping may occur and CO is slightly lighter than air
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:39 PM   #4086
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

I went with this advice on placement:

Quote:
Getting the Height Right

You must ensure you get your carbon monoxide detector installation height right. While some guides might recommend placing your detectors on the ceiling, we don't agree.

The specific gravity of Carbon Monoxide is 0.9657 (with normal air being 1.0), this means that it will float up towards the ceiling because it is lighter than regular air. However, when a build up of dangerous levels of CO gas is taking place, this is nearly always due to a heat source that is not burning its fuel correctly (motor vehicle exhaust fumes are an exception). This heated air can form a layer near your ceiling which can prevent the Carbon Monoxide from reaching a ceiling detector.

For this reason we suggest that it is best to mount your detectors on the walls at least a couple of feet below the height of the ceiling. If your detector has a digital read-out, then we recommend placing it at about eye level so you can easily read it. Or if you have some other structure, like the exposed beam in this photograph which is positioned below the ceiling level, then you can attach your carbon monoxide detectors to it instead.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:42 PM   #4087
Jack Olsen
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

And since I was out running some errands today, and since it was 79 out, I took the carbon monoxide generator out for a spin.

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Old 02-11-2015, 09:01 PM   #4088
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Very warm day with the Santa Ana's. Was 85F in San Diego today...........!
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:16 AM   #4089
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Subtle 1:26 on the license plate frame. Approved. Much better than the old Yosemite Sam mud flaps.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:17 AM   #4090
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Default Re: Winter Warning: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
For all of you who have closed windows and/or god insulation for the winter, make sure you think twice before running an engine or heater without monitoring C0 levels.
No way am I painting my shop green. But I'm following Jack's lead on this one.

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Old 02-13-2015, 09:13 AM   #4091
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Wow! That garage is incredibly well thought out. Nice. I'm interested in that floor lift. Can you provide some info on that? I have been looking at the portable types but they pose storage issues when it won't be in use. That unit being built in to floor is great.
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:46 AM   #4092
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

I'm a Illustrator user. For light duty stuff, PDF is a universal "container" for both Illustrator editing and delivery format for print. If you can set it up for print, PDF would be a very good format.
Quote:
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The guy who did the block grinder ID plate artwork agreed to let me share it with people. Unfortunately for most of you, it's in Adobe Illustrator format and requires some specific typefaces to be installed in your Mac computer for it to work. Obviously, that's a problem for just about everybody. But I think I can work out a kind of form where a guy can submit a request with the information they want on it and I can email them a high-resolution file that they can then get printed out as a decal or a metal plate or whatever they can figure out.

Give me a few days, and I'll see what I have in the file in terms of logos and such and I'll try to present some choices, and then I can make up some labels for anyone who wants them.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:53 AM   #4093
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATK305 View Post
I'm interested in that floor lift. Can you provide some info on that?
Not sure which page but it's all covered in this thread.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:08 PM   #4094
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATK305 View Post
Wow! That garage is incredibly well thought out. Nice. I'm interested in that floor lift. Can you provide some info on that? I have been looking at the portable types but they pose storage issues when it won't be in use. That unit being built in to floor is great.
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Not sure which page but it's all covered in this thread.
Yup, get busy and read all 205 pages!

Seriously; it's worth it...
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:19 PM   #4095
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

More than you wanted to know!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

I had read in Circle Track magazine 10+ years ago that getting CO poisoning that didn't kill you could make you a lot more susceptible to getting sick during later exposures. I didn't quite see confirmation of that in my skim of the above, but I saw enough other things to scare me.

Speaking of German vehicles generating carbon monoxide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_...ning#Holocaust

ATK305, while I, too, recommend you read the whole 12 Gauge Garage thread -- the gateway drug to Garage Journal -- for quick answers to your questions about Jack's garage, he built a website to give a more coherent overview.

http://12gaugegarage.com/


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Old 02-14-2015, 07:38 AM   #4096
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

I have CO detectors hard wired in the basement and house but I really should get something that will tell me the levels in the basement. Im honestly not that worried since the basement is pretty leaky and I dont run the car in there for more than a few seconds but it couldnt hurt to monitor the levels.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:45 PM   #4097
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

I finished it! 205 pages. Dec 17th, 2014 to Feb 14th, 2015. Thanks Jack for the inspiration, ideas, and entertainment! Looking forward to more to come.
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:21 PM   #4098
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATK305 View Post
Wow! That garage is incredibly well thought out. Nice. I'm interested in that floor lift. Can you provide some info on that? I have been looking at the portable types but they pose storage issues when it won't be in use. That unit being built in to floor is great.
The installation starts on page 35. I can't find the post where Jack explains where he found it.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:24 PM   #4099
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

sweet grinder dude.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:04 AM   #4100
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Default Re: The 12-Gauge Garage

Hey Jack sorry to hear you are sick just let me know when you want to stop by.

"Edsal steel top workbench

craigslist reply b3b3

To
jjgmq-4874805041@sale

"Greetings , I would love to see it and buy it asap or within the next 48hrs.I have an appointment with my doctor later in the day and i dont know how long am staying in the hospital i would have loved to check on it today.

Email me at Jackrh4@XXXX.com and let me know your arrangement when we meeting for the deal

Jack Olsen"
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