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FOUNDATION WASHOUT - Looking for sheet material to prevent it

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shopnut

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On one side of my shop, there’s a 3’ drop that I need to keep from washing out. Rain water off the roof beats it hard, but gutters are really not preferred since they would fill up quickly with leaves and Spanish moss.

I plan to build a wood deck along this wall someday, but until then, I need to protect it from washing out. In the past, I used plastic sheet to shed the rain water. But this plastic doesn’t stand up very well to UV rays, so I laid weed block sheet on top of it for better protection from the sun. Unfortunately, even the 25 year weed block sheet degrades after a couple years - I guess it’s meant to be buried.

188-ext.JPG 189-ext.JPG

Any good suggestions for a longer lasting outdoor sheet (or fabric) material?

Thanks in advance.
 
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onething

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Rock, seashells, or anything else that will not erode as quickly as the sand. I used some 4-6" river rock to hold sand at a previous home.

Some sort of ground cover plant would work too - grass, vines, monkey grass, etc.
 
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59 wagon man

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there is a product that used to be sold that replaced a gutter kinda looked like a louver youwould attach instead of the gutter . water would drain down thru it but rather then a sheet of water hitting the ground it was dispersed into raindrops kinda
 
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norcaljr

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I would lay the landscape fabric down and then a couple inches of rock/gravel. it will break up the impact of the water dripping down and stop it from washing away.
 
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rieferman

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Why not some rolled metal like your roofing/siding? Just build a simple frame to hold it at the desired angle. Once you build the deck, I'm sure you'd find another use for it as a shed roof, or just as backup in case a patch is ever needed.
 
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NUTTSGT

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I'd cover the weedblock or landscape fabric with some washed stone.

Before I put that down though, I would pull up the bottom edge of the fabric, dig out some dirt, replace the fabric and lay in a roll of 4" field tile so the water could easily drain out the end somewhere.
 
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nate379

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Crushed rock is what I'd probably use. Gutters are a good idea period though to keep the walls from getting splashed constantly.
 
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Bookworm

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a geotextile is the answer. Much heavier than landscape fabric, but the same idea. Geo-Tex is one brand name. Lay out a roll, cover it with coarse stone. Look around at the asphalt companies in your area, they may crush concrete for re-use. Here they crush concrete to what they call "erosion control aggregate". It is hen's-egg to fist size (2" to 4") and works very well.
 
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70redbee

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Why not just pour some concrete? The other as suggested would be geo fabric covered with about 4 inches of crushed stone.
 
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nmanitou

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Michigan
I agree with some of the other posts that suggest using a heavy, crushed stone. But, if you want a fabric type solution there are a lot of geotextile materials to choose from. Here are a couple of products to consider.

StrataWeb http://www.geogrid.com/

For UV resistance, look for polypropylene products http://www.westernliner.com/polypropylene.html

Best place to find this stuff is from your local excavating company. Ask him where they get there erosion control and slope stability products.
 
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trackwelder

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The geo fabric is great in the garden also. I put some over my garden, cut small holes for the plants, and no weeds at all. My stuff is 1/4" thick.
 
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koditten

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On a side note, I am curious as why you are calling this a foundation. In my area foundation elevations are determined by finished grade. How were you able to back fill only a 3 foot area from the foundation. I don't think our inspectors would sign off on this.

I don't know if my point is right or wrong, this just looks odd to me.
 
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holdover

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VA
I'm with # 13, the way it looks it should of had a foundation and a poured or block wall, this could still be done and might be more stable than what you have now.
 
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Mr.N

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Solve the problem, not the symptom.

Get a nice gutter that doesn't let debris clog it.
There are several options.
 
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theoldwizard1

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If you are looking for something cheap and temporary, look for a place that sells and installs conveyor belts and see if you can buy some used ones. The maybe ugly, but they are heavy and won't deteriorate in the sun.
 
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danski0224

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Near Naperville, IL
shopnut said:
On one side of my shop, there’s a 3’ drop that I need to keep from washing out. Rain water off the roof beats it hard, but gutters are really not preferred since they would fill up quickly with leaves and Spanish moss.

I plan to build a wood deck along this wall someday, but until then, I need to protect it from washing out. In the past, I used plastic sheet to shed the rain water. But this plastic doesn’t stand up very well to UV rays, so I laid weed block sheet on top of it for better protection from the sun. Unfortunately, even the 25 year weed block sheet degrades after a couple years - I guess it’s meant to be buried.


Any good suggestions for a longer lasting outdoor sheet (or fabric) material?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that you got away with doing that.

No retaining wall???

A deck will reduce the water flow, but unless the deck is waterPROOF, and properly flashed to the building to keep water out of that junction, you are still exposed to washout risks.

My suggestion would be a properly installed gutter. There are several permeable fillers, like a big Scotchbrite pad, that will keep debris out.

A zinc or copper strip, or even wire in the gutter... strips on the roof... will control growth of moss.

Even with gutters, I would put in a retaining wall.

Not what you want to hear... but.
 
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blkhonda1991

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Connecticut
koditten said:
On a side note, I am curious as why you are calling this a foundation. In my area foundation elevations are determined by finished grade. How were you able to back fill only a 3 foot area from the foundation. I don't think our inspectors would sign off on this.

I don't know if my point is right or wrong, this just looks odd to me.
Click to expand...

it appears that it is the foundation wall showing above grade due to a grade change, and i sure hope there is more than just that mound of dirt above the footing otherwise that mound of dirt is providing minimal support if any for that wall
 
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SMLDONZI

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NE Ohio
59 wagon man said:
there is a product that used to be sold that replaced a gutter kinda looked like a louver youwould attach instead of the gutter . water would drain down thru it but rather then a sheet of water hitting the ground it was dispersed into raindrops kinda
Click to expand...

^^^This is called "rainhandler" and works very well as described. Its still sold. I use it so roof runoff doesn't eventually cut a straight groove in the concrete.
 
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shopnut

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Florida
Thanks for all of your comments and great ideas. It’s always interesting to see the variety of solutions offered up on this forum.

Like many of you, I agree that fabric topped with crushed rock (or similar) is a great solution to my problem. A retaining wall or concrete would even be a longer term solution. But I don’t really want to go through the expense or effort of either of those right now. I also see gutters or the rain diverters as a good way to stop the soil erosion, but I foresee cleaning and/or repair from fallen branches being a constant battle on my tree-covered lot - one that I decided against when the place was built.

Using the same corrugated siding to protect the soil is an interesting idea and I could actually see that working, especially if I laid the 3’ wide panels parallel to the wall creating a cascade effect over the ribs, slowing down the water and spreading it out. (Rieferman, you must know I have a stack of surplus siding material lying around :)). I suspect it would be somewhat loud, however, as the roof run-off pounded it, but I guess that would be good reminder that it was working. Hurricane season is coming so it would have to be fastened down securely.

Probably the best solution right now (for me) is one of the different geo fabric/textile materials mentioned. I’m satified with the way my two-layer solution is handling the problem, just not the longevity of it. There were many suggestions and I will need to do some more research on them and where I can buy them. The polypropylene version sounds particularly interesting due to it UV stability - I still don’t really want to cover it up with anything. It seems the construction site silt fences are made of this and are readily available. I believe they are only meant to last around 6 months, however. Are there longer lasting versions out there? Of course, the conveyor belting sounds like a great re-purposing application if only I could find a source for it.

Since several of you asked/commented about the foundation, let me just add a little information. It is not a “foundation” in the traditional sense and I’m sorry if the thread title misled any of you. This is a post frame building with a monolithic slab. The difference with this building compared to most southern home mono-slabs is that the main posts extend down below the slab and concrete surrounds them for about 24” deep. Posts are on 12' centers. Here is a cross-section off the prints to explain it better.

Foundation-Detail-01.JPG
 
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danski0224

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Near Naperville, IL
shopnut said:
On one side of my shop, there’s a 3’ drop that I need to keep from washing out.
Click to expand...

shopnut said:
Since several of you asked/commented about the foundation, let me just add a little information. It is not a “foundation” in the traditional sense and I’m sorry if the thread title misled any of you. This is a post frame building with a monolithic slab. The difference with this building compared to most southern home mono-slabs is that the main posts extend down below the slab and concrete surrounds them for about 24” deep. Posts are on 12' centers. Here is a cross-section off the prints to explain it better.

Foundation-Detail-01.JPG
Click to expand...

Well, washout should still be a concern.

Your first post mentions a 3' elevation difference.

That's about 12" lower than the concrete detail you mention in the last post.

Still a chance to lose the monolithic slab.

More expensive to fix that than to put up a retaining wall... but what do I know.

I will tell you that it is ALWAYS, without a doubt, more expensive to fix it the second time.

:bounce:
 
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shopnut

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Feb 22, 2006
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Florida
danski0224 said:
Well, washout should still be a concern.

Your first post mentions a 3' elevation difference.

That's about 12" lower than the concrete detail you mention in the last post.

Still a chance to lose the monolithic slab.

More expensive to fix that than to put up a retaining wall... but what do I know.

I will tell you that it is ALWAYS, without a doubt, more expensive to fix it the second time.

:bounce:
Click to expand...
Thanks for your continued concern, danski. I will keep it in mind.
 
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