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Old 04-27-2011, 04:25 PM   #1
Falcon67
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Default Falcon's next shop - build thread

Don't say "roost" - somebody else has that LOL. I haven't bought a stick but might as well start blabbing about it. Might help keep thoughts on track. It'll be slow going for a while anyway.

After keeping it in the back of my mind while the move went on, I now, all of a sudden, think I have a decent idea of what's coming. I spent a few minutes yesterday on the lot with a tape measure and some sticks. I had to quit when the tape measure screwed up and sliced my finger. Fortunately, it wasn't the finger I use for traffic signaling. I'll survive but the tape measure is toast.

A couple of views of the site. It's nice and flat but has a few sprinkler heads in the ground. It looks like I can site the building just so the big tree loses one branch and maybe miss the little ones in the back. You can see just the corner of the 50x60 slab that the neighbor has. If they build something there, you'd never almost never see my building or the trailers, etc and that would be perfect. (They have expressed interest in selling it, but I don't see how we could afford it. Besides, the apron faces the wrong way - towards their house). our propertly line runs through the center of the big round concrete ring.


Between the fence and the trailer, about 12' in from the alley side property line. I think the setback is 5', so I can clear that easy. Besides - need room to hide the dead pickup back there. The fence would come apart and move to the building corners.


Visio floor plan - air in blue, electric in green. A/C would be wall mounted window units. Work area is 12' wide which seems like a good number. It's 1008 sq/ft, which is 200 sq/ft more than what I had. And close to the 900 sq/ft number that gets you an audience with the zoning board. Nothing to fear there, plenty of large sheds and farm buildings close by.



After a bunch of scribbles, I kept with 24' wide because it uses affordable joist lumber. Hand build rafters are about 60% cheaper on a 24' span than trusses. With a simple rectangle floorplan, do one good pattern rafter and the rest can be ready before lunch.

I can start with one overhead and maybe add a second in the back later. The ceiling over the 16' door area could be vaulted some, not sure how much right now. I'd like to have room for a 4 post, but I don't think I can get 11' 6" in the middle. I'd rather stick with 8' walls, but might consider 9 or 10. Haven't put a pencil to that yet.

The little 3 x 6 room on the end would hold the compressor, a small sink and the bladder tank for the well plus the well controls. We already have a well and the bulk of the system sits in the back yard, just out in the open. The POs never housed it or anything. It is powered right now from the far side of the house. The power and valve wiring is all screwed up so the pump control is a breaker and valve control is my hand stuck in a hole. Siting the building along the fence puts it just a couple of feet from the well head, allowing me to put the junk out of sight inside and house the controls close to the action. Most of the valves are straight runs from the well head, except for one. It would clean up the back yard nice and I'd get a bitty wash sink to boot.

I'll put down more stakes and mull things over to make sure I'm not overlooking something obvious.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

If you look in my build thread linked below you will see that I have a clean shop area similar to what you propose. The 12' is ok but with the 3' door its a tight fit to get equipment into the room. I have a false wall (yet to be built) that is between the dirty and clean areas that will be 6' wide and quick to remove to move major pieces into and out of the area. I also put the breaker box into the dividing wall and it makes access for running wires easy as the stud bay containing the box has screwed on wall board. I also hate a 24' deep shop. You have so little work room on each end of the car. If you have government limited space try a 30x36' and see how it lays out for you. Have the door, or doors, on the 30' wall and 36' deep. Following your other posts you ahve two race cars I think so you would have a bit more breathing room around them for the work you have to do..

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Old 04-27-2011, 07:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Looks like mesquite.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

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Originally Posted by wolfmoon View Post
Looks like mesquite.
Yep - great for smoking meat and gettin' poked in the head.

Good point on the 36" door - I need to make that a 40+ to be sure the engine stand can roll through. Or a pocket door. The false wall is also an excellent idea. I'm not governement limited, but I like the 24' dimension. I had no problem pulling engine/trans even as a unit in 24' with the tool box and bench in front. A could more feet would be nice, but lumber costs go way up - maybe 20%. This is a sub $10K project, if you really want to know the challenge.

EDIT - that increase may not be completely true. I could use the trick they used on the house next door to span wider than 24' with cheaper lumber. But I'd lose my flexibility with vaulting the ceiling a bit. I have to put a pencil to the idea. I could also put in a beam and posts at the 24' mark but I like clear floor space. We're not etched in stone just yet.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Well thought out!!!
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

I think if I was doing this, I'd install a 6' "french door" with glass between the two work areas. You get a 6' opening, and a lot of extra light into the machine area.

My first shop, somewhat by accident, I snagged a "return" at Home Depot. So I installed it and liked the extra light and opening size. So in Shop #3, I installed one on purpose.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:19 AM   #7
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:04 AM   #8
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

For wall height I had a quick question. Are you building on a slab or would their be footings, a few extra dollars in conctrete could add significant height while still using the 8ft lumber walls? Or is the wall height more of a neighborhood asthetics concern?
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

I'll be a slab with maybe 12" x 6" deep perimeter and maybe 3 beams across. I want to keep a low profile. I'm on a tight budget, so when you start doing 9 or 10' exterior walls you get into cutting and slicing material, plus the cost of the additional materials. I plan to use Hardi board (4x8) for siding as I have good experience with the material. I wanted to use Hardi plank, but the cost is significantly more - like 30%. It's technically possible to hide a 9' wall behind a good size eve, but material cost and time factor in - either you lose 12" off a 10' 2x4 or you build a bunch of spacers. [edit] Plus the wall is heavier and harder to raise for one or two.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

What did you use to draw the floor plan up with?
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Quote:
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What did you use to draw the floor plan up with?
Visio

What I learned so far -

Vaulting the ceiling requires the design and installation of a ridge beam that can take the roof load. Not sure I want to go that route. Raising the joists over 1/3 of the rafter changes them into rafter ties and that also gets into some serious engineering and up sizes the rafters accordingly.
http://www.nachi.org/collar-rafter-ties.htm
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...72305&page=372


Sheet rock and studs are available for 9' or 10' ceilings but not siding. Siding can be had by special order. Cost goes up quite a bit too.

So thinking about it, and remembering that I have been working in 8' of shop ceiling for...40 years or so...without an issue, I threw it all out under the heading of "KISS".

Using retail pricing I've already had to back down a little on size. Things just cost bucks. After chatting up the city manager, some more design constraints appeared. Set backs are 5' from the side property line and 3' off the back. But another hitch - no non-residential buildings allowed on a single lot by its self. The side setback is the lesser fight and with a bit smaller building, no problemo - I'll just slide it over 5'. Fixed.

The lot issue requires a zoning variance. Since the lot is paid for we would not want too try and tie it into the house lot. The lender would probably run from that anyway. Over all it does not appear to be a problem because:
1) next lot has a 40x50 slab already
2) only two houses in the immediate area sit on single lots. The rest have two or more.
3) Several of the two lot houses have sheds or other buildings that sit on the second lot
4) A review of the tax info shows that all lots are taxed separately, so that indicates the deeds are all filed individually. Meaning those lots are not "tied" to the house lot, co-joined or whatever the legal term might be. The lot next door with the slab is down at $14K on the tax rolls. Their house is separate at $122K.

The city manager invited me down anytime to review the guidelines on the books, so I'll know what I have to work around.

So I'd be rather surprised that a variance may be denied, but I'll go get through that process before I do anything else. I can build a Power Point presentation that'll make 'em give me what I want just to get rid of me.


In the mean time, I revised the layout. When I get a site plan done, it'll make more sense. Note that the ridge beam/vault option could still be in play with double 9' doors instead of a single 16' door.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Short update -
Design Change, shooting for 40' with two front 9' doors. Depending on how it sits against the trees on the lot. I may yet be forced into a single 16' because of the huge tree location. We moved it to the far side of the lot to make room in the yard for other things. Setbacks are 5' from side lot line, 3' from rear lot line.

How it'll sit on the lot:


Variance request has been turned in to the city manager. There is no form or formal process, so I just put together some info and a typed request letter and took it over there Friday. The City Manager has no issue but it's not his call. The lead of the P&Z is a realtor and not real hot on the idea, so we'll see. P&Z will make a recommendation, then I put it on the agenda for a council meeting and the council votes up or down. The primary issue - no accessory buildings allowed on a lot without a primary building or residence. As noted above - that cow is already out of the barn right next door.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Another update - after playing with stakes, string and tape measures for several evenings I turned the layout sideways because there was no place to park the trailers. Not enough room behind the building. Nothing yet on the variance.
Les Nessman lines:



Worst part about this is the two trees in the back will need backhoe work to get out. The big mesquite in front will lose 2 1/2 branches (one branch has a winters worth of firewood). Good part is that the location is flat within maybe 2-3 inches. Trailers could park where the red truck sits as there is 23' between the building and the lot line. A little 4' fence and a couple of gates and you'd not see them from the street.

A potential wrinkle - the slab next door to our lot is for sale. Have done some talking and that's about it. 36x54, way bigger than I can build.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Measured that slab today - I need my feet calibrated. It's 40x60 with a 12' apron on the east side. Big, huge, too much.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:54 PM   #15
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Big, huge, too much.
Is there such a thing when it comes to garages/shops? I think not!
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

Perfect size for ME but the checkbook says SORRY CHARLIE. Bummer.

Got a quote on concrete yesterday - $88/yd delivered. With local sales tax, $2000 for 21 yds. Excellent price. I also have a contact that can do turn key on the slab, have to think about that. Budgeted $3500 for the slab and if I do it all it'll just hit that mark. Retail rebar, sand, chairs, ties, etc comes to $1120. That number should be lower with shopping and buying in bulk.
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:55 AM   #17
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Glacial progress - got past the P&Z hearing last night and they voted to move it to a public hearing on 7/11, just before the next council meeting. Paid $25 to cover the mail outs to neighbors inside the 200' circle. I have talked to all the facing neighbors and there is no problem there. I doubt that anyone behind will care but we'll see. There would have to be quite a bit of opposition to persuade the committee that it's a bad thing. Voting to move it to a public hearing basically means they agree that I qualify for the variance. Downside of 7/11 is that if they vote to allow, it'll be the second Monday of August before I can put it before the council for final approval.

In the mean time, I continue to chew up 500' of layout twine to find the ideal spot. Found a place for the pool in the back yard, so that freed up some space on the lot. The two lots across the street are under contract for a house, so if I can catch the people clearing the trees off the lot I may be able to bribe somebody to uproot a couple of trees for me.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

While the slab next door may be big, you don't have to build it all - there is always a need for outdoor work areas. It appears to be already plumbed for water and sewer - a couple of costs you need to consider if you build from scratch. And the fact a slab exists may get you past the P&Z more easily. Just my .02 - best of luck with the build.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

With the slab next door, build as big as you can afford, then throw a carport up to cover the trailer on concrete...
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Falcon's next shop - build thread

>And the fact a slab exists may get you past the P&Z more easily.
Actually, it does not. Same deal required - no building permit issued for that slab unless a variance granted. Even if the owner had a permit to build at one time, it's expired long ago. The fact that it's there and there is no permit on file actually makes it more of an issue than what I'm doing. My spider sense says that thing is an old issue, so I'm staying this side of it. All things considered, I would have a worse time getting a permit for the big slab than for my building. Using the lot right next door, I can show evidence that the accessory building restriction denies me the same opportunity as the neighbors have as far as use of the property. The slab being an extra lot away does not carry near as much weight.

Note - I met the new mayor. He has a 50 model Ford pickup that used to have a vette 327 in it. So I have an avenue for appeal should I need it LOL.
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