Shop Walk in Door: Opens IN or OUT?

Texas442 · May 26, 2011

I am building an all metal building shop. I have a walk in door at the front and another at the back. The contractor wants to install them opening out instead of into the shop. I looked at another shop, and it also opens out, but the door hinges are exposed. Is this a security concern? In general, which way do the walk in doors opens? Your thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

1SlowFormula · May 26, 2011

Every one I have seen opens in, my man door opens in on my 31 year old shop and my father-in-law has a metal building like you describe with a front and rear/side door and both doors open in. Now that being said I have hit things opening the door in and forgetting I left it close to that door and that pisses you off, but like you said about security, unless you get security hinges anyone could just pop the pins...

bazzateer · May 26, 2011

Outside hinges not a problem, just fit some hinge bolts so even if someone removed the hinge pins the door still can't be opened.

NUTTSGT · May 26, 2011

On businesses, with an occupancy rating of a certain amount, the exit doors must swing out. This allows the doors to swing open, rather than have to be pulled open during an emergency.

Now, with that being said, yours is a home shop I assume, and no need for that. But on the other hand, taking that into consideration, there should be some hinges out there that are quite hard to remove the pins. Having the door swing outward also puts the edge for the door stop on the inside. This makes it harder to kick the door in.

I'd ask the contractor about what hinges are available. If nothing is within your price range, a small hole could be drilled through the hinge and pin. Drive a cotter pin or rol pin in the hole and grind off the excess. If somebody wants to remove the door pins, they have to have a small punch and drive out your "security" pin.

1SlowFormula · May 26, 2011

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/home/question584.htm

sstruckguy · May 26, 2011

My previous metal buildings have had both set-ups. I'm guessing that when pole type buildings were first built, they were designed for a business. Thus the out swinging door.

I would be curious to find the real reason behind this as well.

59 wagon man · May 26, 2011

in south florida the older homes mostly open inward but the new hurricane codes require the door to open out so the wind will push the door shut

Zeke · May 26, 2011

Hinges with set screws installed while the leaf open are called NRP (non removable pin) and are used a lot. Home stores don't carry them, special order. You can make them with a drill and a tap.

danski0224 · May 26, 2011

No interior square footage wasted with outswing doors.

Carl B · May 26, 2011

No question - IMHO you want outswing doors on any garage. As mentioned, inswing doors waste garage floor space and you can hit stuff you can't see inside..

FWIW,
Carl B.

Charles (in GA) · May 26, 2011

Depends on how big the building is. Small, tight inside, you might want them swinging outward. A large building like mine, I wouldn't consider them any way but swinging in. My hinges have the set screw in them that makes pin removal impossible, and the doors could go either way, but swinging outward didn't seem right to me, and didn't look right.

Charles

TimGrz · May 26, 2011

It's much harder, if not nearly impossible, to kick in a door that swings out.

When I replaced my outside doors on my home they got doors that swing out. The ones I had bought do not allow the pins to be removed unless the door is open.

I'm in a new home. If I ever replace the doors they will be swing-out as well.

/tg

327-365hp · May 26, 2011

I have an outswing in my shop. An outswing is harder to kick in. I can open it all the way and prop it against the outside wall. I have a two step drop on the inside so an inswing would have been a pain, on top of wasting all the space in a 36" radius.

Alchymist · May 26, 2011

Never mind the hinge pins.Install a pin in the door edge through the hinge between the mounting screws. Keep it short, 1/4 inch or so exposed. Drill a hole i the other leaf of the hinge opposite the pin. When th door shuts, the pin goes into the hole in the other leaf. Even if someone removes the pins, the door won't come out of the opening because of the pins. Simple fix.

Jack Olsen · May 26, 2011

TimGrz said:
It's much harder, if not nearly impossible, to kick in a door that swings out.

Exactly.

Lkdelta · May 26, 2011

danski0224 said:
No interior square footage wasted with outswing doors.

both my doors swing out....can't use a credit card to "jimmy the door knob", if i forget to lock the dead-bolt

Use Carriage bolts or all-thread for the hinge pins and peen the ends of the threads over, so the nut can't come off

Zeke · May 26, 2011

Before everyone changes all entry doors to outswing, consider that inswing doors allow for a screen door. Or a security door.

I like having a security door with screening (the normal kind, not perforated metal). You won't kick that puppy in.

green.bubbly · May 26, 2011

Hmmm... another seemingly simple but yet useful thread. On my new house being built, I have one door that will swing outward. I never thought about easily removing the pins from the outside.

Beaumont67 · May 26, 2011

I had my steel entrance door, swing in.
- no windows in my garage, for added security
- installed a while tri-light aluminum storm door (out swing) on the outside of the frame
(for a little ventilation & natural light, with the steel man door open - when I'm inside)

------------------------------------------------
Beaumont { :>)) www.petperfectexpress.com
1965 Malibu S/S, 1966 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont Custom, 1967 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont 396-350HP Sport Deluxe M21-411's - SOLD 1970 Judge

stevefasano · May 26, 2011

removed due to

warmbythefire · May 26, 2011

2 feet of snow it would be nice if the door opened in.

Charles (in GA) · May 26, 2011

Sorry, could not resist.

Charles

Zeke · May 26, 2011

green.bubbly said:
Hmmm... another seemingly simple but yet useful thread. On my new house being built, I have one door that will swing outward. I never thought about easily removing the pins from the outside.

Which is another urban myth. Take the pins out of an OS door and then tell us how easy it was to slip the hinge knuckles by each other while the lock side remained secure.

Answer: you have to move the door over 3/8ths of an inch to accomplish this. If the intruder has that capability, he's coming in somewhere and it's not likely your outswinging door.

70redbee · May 26, 2011

Also remember the threshold is different for an outswing door. Make sure you order it for outswing or the water will come right in.

Greatbear · May 26, 2011

Outswing doors leave the lockset bolts more vulnerable to jimmying. Not as much of a problem if you also have a deadbolt installed, but if you rely solely on a single lock, make sure the stop bolt is adjusted properly to rest on the strike. If not, a push against the door with a piece of coathanger wire behind the bolt will open the door instantly.

You can up the security of outswing doors by affixing a bolt plate to the door to block access to the bolts.

Keith_MN · May 26, 2011

I installed an outswing door on my storage shed. I like it for the floor space it saves not having to leave room for door swing inside.

Some considerations though:
1. Someone mentioned it already, but the snow could be an issue. I have a large step into the shed, so for me not so much.
2. I did not install anything to hold the door open. So I have to be careful on windy days that it does not swing back against the building. The door hits the brick mold before the handle hits the side. This could cause damage if not careful.
3. I do not like to leave my door open when it is raining because the top of the door would get wet. I have a metal skin door and water would have the potential to enter the inside of the door where the metal is bent over the top and joined into the wood structure.

Mike in Ohio · May 27, 2011

TimGrz said:
It's much harder, if not nearly impossible, to kick in a door that swings out.

When I replaced my outside doors on my home they got doors that swing out. The ones I had bought do not allow the pins to be removed unless the door is open.

I'm in a new home. If I ever replace the doors they will be swing-out as well.

/tg

When I built my house the contractor said code was inswing for easier access for fire dept. It might not be an issue for an outbuilding though.

danski0224 · May 27, 2011

stevefasano said:
I would think about wind gusts before security...

That has been the only drawback to my outswing door.

I am considering installing one of those heavy duty commercial style but residential duty door closers.

Kevin54 · May 27, 2011

Mike in Ohio said:
When I built my house the contractor said code was inswing for easier access for fire dept. It might not be an issue for an outbuilding though.

Well if that is the case, what makes the firefighters any more important than the persons occupying the building. Wouldn't an outswing door make for easier exits for occupants in a burning building? That shoots your contractors theory down.

It all boils down to whether it is an occupied business, what ones code dictates, and what is personal preference as to which way it swings. For every reason one states that it should swing out, another comes up with that it should swing in. :headscrat

If the door is in the middle of the building, then swinging in could take up space, if the door is in the corner of the building, then chances are you don't have too much in that corner anyways and the door can swing in and parked against the wall.

Mattlt · May 27, 2011

warmbythefire said:
2 feet of snow it would be nice if the door opened in.

That's what I was going to say. Especially important if the door is on a sidewall - all that snow sliding off the roof. I know my walk door has seen snow nearly up to the doorknob at times!

rpmgroup · May 27, 2011

I have mine swinging in and then a steel screen (security) door on the outside. It will slow them down to get in and it is nice to have the breeze without having to open the big doors.

StingRay · May 27, 2011

An in swing door will seal better against the cold. When the outer skin contracts in the cold the door cups towards the stop. When there is snow it's a helluva lot easier to open an in swing door. I had out swings on the garage and changed to in swing. I really hated how the wind would catch them. They could be really dangerous. There was a hole in the wall where a door got away from the po and the key went right through the Hardi panel!

ramstang · May 27, 2011

I would say open the door inward. IF you ever had to block your self in you could put stuff behind the door.

pgray · May 29, 2011

get a dog and a gun,my favorite security was my donkey. swing in or out both have their benifits to security, 15 sec and the right set of irons and I'm in. keys go in a lock box, extra locks in the tracks of the overhead door.

NUTTSGT · May 29, 2011

Mike in Ohio said:
When I built my house the contractor said code was inswing for easier access for fire dept. It might not be an issue for an outbuilding though.

LOL. Don't worry about us, we'll get the door open. Knocking doors off hinges ranks right up there with cutting holes in roofs. :thumbup:

tcianci · May 30, 2011

Most residential outswing doors are shipped with security hinges. They work similar to the hole and pin method described earlier. One leaf of the hinge has a tab punched out and the other leaf has a hole that engages the tab when the door is closed so even if the pins are removed you can't get the hinge apart.

canuckian · May 30, 2011

with the exception of the front door, all the ones in our house and attached garage open out. I didn't even notice it until we took possession. I'm pretty sure our doors have the security hinges but to me, it's easier to kick in most doors than it is to take the pins out anyways. If someone wants in, they're getting in. I have a monitored alarm system to deal with them if they do get in. If that doesn't make them run away, the 2 dogs will motivate them!!
The gained square footage of out-swings is a plus but not being able to mount a screen door for hot summer days *****. the wind taking them also *****. The man door on my attached garage opens right where the prevailing winds barrel through. The poor thing is pretty dented up already. I did install an in-swing on my detached garage and plan on putting a screen door in it this summer to get a nice breeze on hot summer days .

slimpickins · May 31, 2011

Interesting thread!

My shop door on my steel building is an outie, and it drives me nuts when the snow falls off the roof, lands on the pad in front of the door and up against the door and then freezes. Can't get the door open till it all thaws out. I am faced with building a porch over my door to protect it from this, or change the door.

Enufs been said on security hinges, already. Like Milt said, its easy to convert hinges to a captive pin with a drill and tap. You can buy these, but sometimes hard to find.

Outswing doors are more vulnerable to crowbar attack, inswings to kick in. Take your pick. All this stuff usually only keeps honest people out. A determined thief will find a way in if you've got something he wants.

SyTyJim · May 31, 2011

59 wagon man said:
in south florida the older homes mostly open inward but the new hurricane codes require the door to open out so the wind will push the door shut

Yup, thats the reason I got too when I built my shed.

Jimmy

Chris Adams · May 31, 2011

I have out-swing doors on six sheds, in-swing on garage and shop.
Plus a swing out security door on my house back door.

ALL the out-swing doors have wind problems. I mean serious wind problems. The little doors you have to always close, or have someone hold them while you get stuff out of the little sheds.
On the big shed doors I have to lock them back, in open position every time, or a gust comes along and slams them, hard. I've mounted 'backwards latches' on all the sheds to lock them open.

On my in-swing doors I often leave them open, usually part way, while I'm working in the shop or garage, for extra light, ventilation, dog access, ease of walking through with my hands full.

On security, a few bucks and a few minutes work and you can't possibly kick the door in.

My house has an out-swing security door on the back door, with the protected hinges and that works well, except a few years ago when we got two feet of snow you couldn't open the blasted door.
Wind blew the drift against the door...

Also, you MUST close and latch the security door every time you go through it, or the wind slams it. And a heavy security door slamming is not good for the wall...

That means carrying groceries from the garage you have to open and close it twenty times... Or let it slam. Not fun.

So while there is a purpose and place for out-swing doors, I wasn't even tempted on my shop.

Shop Walk in Door: Opens IN or OUT?

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Attachments

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

MEMBER EMERITUS

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member