Is this enough area for cement truck to maneuver?

madstat · Jul 9, 2011

Sorry for my ignorance, I don't work with concrete and have little experience. I'm pouring a new footing to extend my garage, does anyone know if the truck pictured will be able to turn around and chute the concrete directly into my footing forms?

The sales guy at the ready mix plant told me the reach of the chutes on the truck are about 14ft. (I'll probably rent an extra chute?) The footings themselves are about 5ft below grade. It would be ideal if the truck could chute the concrete directly down into the forms so that I don't have to wheelbarrow it around from down in the hole. The sketch below should help picture things.

The ground around the area to pour is a combination of gravel drive and lawn and it is very solid unless there are heavy rains.

Thanks ahead of time,
Madstat

Steevo · Jul 9, 2011

Those trucks are HUGE. There is no way that truck can maneuver in the space behind the garage.
He will have to drive in forwards, swing his chute sideways to his left, and work that way.

snorky18 · Jul 9, 2011

You're missing the widths in your dimensions, but based on the sketch, best bet would be:

A) the concrete truck backs in next to "existing shed" with chute pointed forward. That truck is probably 45-50' long, plus room for the chute off the front.

OR

B)pulls in forward and stops with front of truck next to new footing, which would only work IF the chute can swing 90 degrees to the left of the truck

Good thing you've got a gravel area, no worries about cracking a nice concrete drive :thumbup:

madstat · Jul 9, 2011

Steevo said:
Those trucks are HUGE. There is no way that truck can maneuver in the space behind the garage.
He will have to drive in forwards, swing his chute sideways to his left, and work that way.

Thanks for the reply,
I don't think the truck would be able to make a full turn behind the garage either but I was wondering if there was enough area maneuver a bit to fulling swing the chute left and "reach down" into the hole. Otherwise my pour day just got a whole lot harder.

Best.

Ironcrow · Jul 9, 2011

I've had several concrete companies that have come by my site before the pour (in a pick-up truck) to look at the access issues before sending a heavily loaded mixer truck.

I've placed about 100 yards here; all pumped. In my case it is a matter of getting close enough for the boom or hose for the pump etc. and which of two sloped 300 foot gravel driveways the guy wants to back down (no turn around - you either back in or back out)

Az Scooter · Jul 9, 2011

Get a concrete pump. Cheap to rent and a lot easier to work with then a wheelbarrow.

But then, I am lazy.

blue dog · Jul 9, 2011

Off topic here, but we do not have concrete trucks like that in Los Angeles, do they carry more then 9 yards ?

madstat · Jul 9, 2011

blue dog said:
Off topic here, but we do not have concrete trucks like that in Los Angeles, do they carry more then 9 yards ?

Funny thing is I hadn't seen a front discharge truck till I moved to Michigan. Prior to that I lived in HI and WA and there I have only seen rear discharge. The front discharges are all anyone has around here, they actually aren't that big, I know the truck in the picture looks huge but when you really compare to rear discharge truck they aren't that much bigger. They still hold only bout 9-10 yds (I think).

BADSIX · Jul 9, 2011

get some buddys over and wheel barrow it, its not that hard if you don't over load your wheel barrow. make sure you have plenty of help more is better than not enough.

Stuart in MN · Jul 9, 2011

blue dog said:
Off topic here, but we do not have concrete trucks like that in Los Angeles, do they carry more then 9 yards ?

Looks like a McNeilus, built in Dodge Center, MN (they're now owned by Oshkosh.) According to their website they carry 11 yards. http://www.mcneilusconcrete.com/

ETravis · Jul 9, 2011

blue dog said:
Off topic here, but we do not have concrete trucks like that in Los Angeles, do they carry more then 9 yards ?

These trucks are nice because one guy can operate it. I think a lot of states can't use them because of unions. Going with the front discharge would eliminate a worker and that does not sit well with the unions. At least that's what I've heard.

Frank The Plumber · Jul 9, 2011

No most likely not, do you have a site mix type company near you, they use much smaller trucks.

jeepntxj · Jul 9, 2011

ETravis said:
These trucks are nice because one guy can operate it. I think a lot of states can't use them because of unions. Going with the front discharge would eliminate a worker and that does not sit well with the unions. At least that's what I've heard.

Never heard that. All of our mixers were rear discharge, all had just one driver/operator.

I agree, that's not enough room for a mixer to manuever around. If you ask, they should send a salesman or QC guy out at no charge to inspect the area and tell you the easiest way to work it.

Also, tell the dispatcher/salesman that it'll be a difficult pour and that you want an experienced driver. The guys that have been driving for 10-15+ years have poured in almost every situation possible and can figure out the best way to do it.

Gettin' through the day with Tapatalk.

chickenhauler · Jul 9, 2011

If he can back in to the right of the shed, he'd be able to shoot it in. The company I use has the same trucks, only they carry enough chutes to reach around 22' and can swing a little more than 90° If he can't back in beside the shed, then you'll be stuck carting it to the far side.

tonydanzah · Jul 9, 2011

funny, i bet that truck in the picture is really small in person

rabidsquirrel · Jul 9, 2011

tonydanzah said:
funny, i bet that truck in the picture is really small in person

That or they have a wood grain driveway.

larry_g · Jul 9, 2011

Frank The Plumber said:
....snip.... do you have a site mix type company near you, they use much smaller trucks.

I have to second this advise. I used one for my build and they were basically the same price per yard as the premix if you bought a truckload. If you only need a couple of yards then the price per yard goes up but I doubt if it would be much more than a partial from the premix. Doing the pad for the shop it cost me $300 for a pump.

lg
no neat sig line

35mastr · Jul 9, 2011

Get the pump if you are that leary.

caper150 · Jul 9, 2011

Stuart in MN said:
Looks like a McNeilus, built in Dodge Center, MN (they're now owned by Oshkosh.) According to their website they carry 11 yards. http://www.mcneilusconcrete.com/

you are correct except that only the drums are built and painted in Dodge Center and then are sent to Oshkosh to be installed, they only build the rear load mixers there. I use to work there and ran the paint shop for them.

As for the OP question if he could back in that would be his best option, chutes will swing close to 90* but not quite. everything is run from either inside the truck or remotely, onlything the driver needs to do is hook up each extention chute.

BTW they are a blast to drive, like getting into the cockpit of a plane and you sit in the middle of the truck.

The Maxx · Jul 9, 2011

I used to drive a front discharge redi-mix truck. Yes it will work given the dimensions you provided. Not to maneuver much, but to drive straight in and operate chutes.

16' is plenty for an 8' wide truck to drive in, and the chutes should be able to go 90 degrees to the left. For the elevation change to go 5' below grade the driver may have a boot ( thin short flexible chute for footings, basically directs the concrete as it's falling into the hole. Keeps the splattering down as well.) for the end of the chutes to help direct the placement of the concrete.

Some may have to be "pulled" or dragged into place from one part of the footing to a hard to reach spot, but it beats a wheelbarrow.

That is what front discharge mixers are for, to put it right where you need it, all operated from the drivers seat. A good driver can make your life easy, and a bad one can make it hard.

Other things to consider:

Overhead obstructions. These trucks can be upwards of 12' tall. Trees and power lines will be a problem. There are regulations on the height of power lines over roads, but once off the road they hang em pretty low to get to the house.

Weight. A quad axle can gross 73,000lbs here in Wisconsin. Even with big tires it can sink when it finds soft ground, or a septic tank! The six wheel drive & low range will get it out of most soft spots, as long as it is level. Leaning heavily to one side is BAD.

Is your house newer? Backfill around the foundation not fully settled yet? Stay farther back from the house then. Add chutes if you have to.

And the comment on some unions not using these trucks is correct. Front discharge mixers with a good driver can put concrete where it is needed at the depth it is needed. That eliminates the need for additional laborers.

madstat · Jul 9, 2011

The Maxx said:
Snipped... I used to drive a front discharge redi-mix truck.

Thanks Maxx, that was exactly the kind of detail I was interested in. Now I'm definitely going to have some extra chutes and I'll try to ask around for the "boot".

Thanks also for the extra considerations. My house is 1920's so the ground has had decades to settle in. I do have an overhead service drop but it's about 20' at it's lowest so I'm good with that.

One thing I didn't mention is that my driveway apron is only 8' I hope that isn't an issue, I don't care about what happens to my gravel drive but I'd hate to see my concrete apron crack.

RPH · Jul 9, 2011

Cement buggy, problem solved. Call a rental center, cost should be fairly cheap.

6768rogues · Jul 9, 2011

Around here there are both front and rear discharge trucks. Some of the rear discharge trucks have a conveyor system and can convey the concrete for a distance of 35 or 40 feet. If there is a rear discharge conveyor truck in your area, it could back in and put the concrete right where you need it.

The Maxx · Jul 9, 2011

madstat said:
Thanks Maxx, that was exactly the kind of detail I was interested in. Now I'm definitely going to have some extra chutes and I'll try to ask around for the "boot".

Thanks also for the extra considerations. My house is 1920's so the ground has had decades to settle in. I do have an overhead service drop but it's about 20' at it's lowest so I'm good with that.

One thing I didn't mention is that my driveway apron is only 8' I hope that isn't an issue, I don't care about what happens to my gravel drive but I'd hate to see my concrete apron crack.

The concrete apron could be a problem. Lots of variables there. How thick is the concrete? What strength mix? What kind of base? Reinforced?

You can put down timbers or a deep layer of gravel to spread the weight out of the truck going over it. Make sure all the lift axles the truck has are down. The truck is 8' wide, same as the apron so the wheels will be at the edges of the apron, and the edge is a weak point.

If you're in doubt then the wheelbarrow or power buggy may be the best way to go.

Daniel Dudley · Jul 10, 2011

chickenhauler said:
If he can back in to the right of the shed, he'd be able to shoot it in. The company I use has the same trucks, only they carry enough chutes to reach around 22' and can swing a little more than 90° If he can't back in beside the shed, then you'll be stuck carting it to the far side.

This. But concrete trucks weight like 60,000 pounds. Do you know where your leach field and septic tank are ?

ldim · Jul 10, 2011

Rent one of these things. They work great!

jmh21586 · Jul 10, 2011

Lot of expensive advice for such a small project.

Get the truck in there and get whatever he can reach. Have a wheelbarrow ready for what he can't.

If you like wasting money rent a pump or a motorized buggy.

How come no one has asked if the footings are on grade or in a 5' trench? I'll assume that since you're in MI, they're down a little. So what good would a motorized buggy do?

RPH · Jul 10, 2011

Concrete buggy rents for about 130 a day, not bad at all.

Coyote35 · Jul 10, 2011

Don't forget about the weight of the full loaded truck. That thing will go thruough most residential driveways, and if it doesn't, it'll surely crack it enough to need replacing in a few years. If it goes off the pavement and gets stuck, look for a very expensive and damage recovery.

Pump it or get some wheel barrows. Either way use a reputable company and make sure they have insurance. Let the driver choose weather to drive in or not, then he;s responsible. Don't let your contractor tell him.

jmh21586 · Jul 10, 2011

RPH said:
Concrete buggy rents for about 130 a day, not bad at all.

And absolutely worthless if the footings are in a trench.

Which they most likely are in Mi.

jmh21586 · Jul 10, 2011

Coyote35 said:
Don't forget about the weight of the full loaded truck. That thing will go thruough most residential driveways, and if it doesn't, it'll surely crack it enough to need replacing in a few years. If it goes off the pavement and gets stuck, look for a very expensive and damage recovery.

They will go through a ton more than the average Joe thinks they will.

Remember, most of their deliveries are to new construction. Bunch of muddy lots, no driveways, etc. You really have to have a mud hole to get one stuck.

And yes, I worked in concrete. Residential. And rural. I've seen them go through stuff that made me nervous as hell. Seen them get stuck too.

Pump it or get some wheel barrows. Either way use a reputable company and make sure they have insurance.

From the diagram, I couldn't imagine needing a pump. From the size listed get a wheel barrow and a friend if you're nervous.
Are there non reputable companies in business without insurance?

Let the driver choose weather to drive in or not, then he;s responsible. Don't let your contractor tell him.

Driver is always responsible regardless of who tells him what.

All in all, judging by the diagram given, this is a lot of worrying about nothing.

How many feet of footing are we talking here? Not much judging by the diagram. I've wheeled more mud longer distances by myself before.

I wheeled an entire 1700 sqft basement before. Just myself and two finishers. All from a patio door opening. Miserable day that was. But it can be done.

madstat · Jul 10, 2011

Just to clear things up... Yes this is a small job (<2yds), I do think renting a pump or buggy is not worth the money. And as mentioned the footings are bout 5' below grade. After Maxx and jhm's comments I'm feeling more confident that the truck will be able to place most of the concrete where I need it. I'll have a couple of helpers and a wheelbarrow around just in case.

70redbee · Jul 11, 2011

If you have plenty of help,get two wheelborows...2yds are a piece of cake. Just eat a good breakfast. Making a mountain out of a molehill here I think...just grab and go. They also have the transport your own places for small loads if you have one near by.

69f100 · Jul 11, 2011

wow!! do youlive next door or something?! have almost the exact same set up in our yard (substitute shed for a fence) when we had a porch poured (same place yours is now) they tried bringing the truck in and we didnt have enough room to maneuver. its been afew years, but i remember that they could back up and in, and thats about it.

Torque1st · Jul 11, 2011

Maxx is correct, it is a piece of cake, but using gravel/dirt and timbers on the drive apron is a must. The weight of the truck will depend on how much concrete is on it. The empty truck will weigh in the neighborhood of 30,000#. Some suppliers may try to combine two loads on one truck which can be OK with a good driver or cause a multitude of problems. 2 yards is no problem and the access is no problem for either a front or rear discharge truck. If you can't get a boot a couple of workers holding two half sheets of plywood can direct most of the mud into the forms.

Cryptic1911 · Jul 11, 2011

Nope, I'm gonna say probably not enough room. They are long and pretty wide

kinda funny, you're in michigan and out of all the cement mixer pics on the internet, you grabbed one from the place 2 miles from my house!

madstat said:

them pouring my floor:

pl_silverado · Jul 11, 2011

for 2 yards, i just rented the tow behind concrete mixer/trailer at my local place, picked it up full, towed it home, took my time pouring the pad and dropped it off once finished. Total cost was $ 300.

Granted, you'd need at minimum a 3/4 ton truck to pull that trailer.

NUTTSGT · Jul 11, 2011

Funny how guys are responding about the concrete truck on the driveway. I mentioned the crane (that crashed into the house with the hottub) being inthe driveway and people seemed fine with it.

Not knowing what the driveway was poured at, you may not want it in the drive.

If you did, I think the driver could back it in, a good driver. there's a big difference between a GOOD concrete driver and BAD concrete driver.

2 yards? I'd bet your local concrete company has a minimum order, probably atleast three yds. Do you have the place to put another yard ? Or will you just take the $ hit ?

I wouldn't be above renting a mixer, buying some portland cememnt, sand and gravel and mix my own. Have a few buddies over and some beer/pizza.

Or park the truck in the street and wheel it in by hand.

tomd · Jul 11, 2011

2 yards....some places will simply drive it to the back of the house with a skid steer (poured in the front of the house). This avoids all problems with height, apron, etc.

It will probably cost a bit more, but an option to ask about if you are interested

jmh21586 · Jul 11, 2011

2 yards? 2-3 wheelbarrows and just as many friends and wheel it in from the street.

Is this enough area for cement truck to maneuver?

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