airline drains

I studied few diagrams
They most always show going beyond the last drop you have and then turn 90 degree with a ball valve pointing at the ground, for drain

Is it truely necessary to have this detail, because I think the water shouldn't really get to the end leg.

The extended section creates a corner that the air will turn while the heavier stuff - like water droplets - will keep going, collecting in the drain leg.

Scott

do you have water at this last drain regularly?

Just seems to me when you are drawing air from the drop, air / water would be taking path of least resistance and not really go into the extended section

Also, I see people picture on this board, it's popular to put a drain right after the braided hose to collect water near the compressor. Ok now do you actually slope the horiztonal pipe upwards to encourage water to drain back to this first drain?
Documentations says slow pipes downwards as it goes towards the drop, but they don't have a drain at the compressor.

The moisture is not in the form of droplets when it leaves in the air stream from the compressor. The air transports the moisture anywhere in your piping system until the air is cooled to the point where the moisture condenses into small droplets which collect on the interior wall of the pipe. So, if you are using a lot of air at the point farthest from your compressor, there is a good probability that you will get liquid transported there, too unless you have cooled the air prior to distributing it.

The only way to effectively remove the moisture is to cool the air. This can be done in a few different ways:

One way it to get a refrigerated air dryer. These are not all that expensive but they do use electricity, require maintenance and they will eventually have to be replaced. All of these aspects of use cost money.

Another method is to exit from the compressor in a coil of copper tubing using ambient air or other cooling medium (water) to cool the copper pipe, thereby condensing the moisture prior to going into your piping. From here, the air would be diverted to a drip leg and then to your piping system.

Another method is to use pressure drops to cool the air to remove moisture. This method is exactly the way an A/C system works. This is accomplished by allowing the compressed air to enter a chamber that forces a drop in pressure (and temp) and allows the air to slow down, promoting the moisture to condense. This is an extremely effective method and it is fundamental reason that coalescent filters are so popular. The biggest problem I have with most coalescent filters is that they are not adequately sized to handle large volumes of air, even though they are typically advertised as competent for a given CFM. I think they are very effective if used properly but most folks expect them to work magic.

Building a remarkably effective, self-sustained, compact dryer system is a bit more complicated than I have time to explain at the moment, but in brief - come out of the compressor in 3/4" pipe, branch into two runs of 3/4" for some length – maybe 2’, then go back into a single ¾”. A single run arranged in this manner will remove a fairly substantial amount of heat. Of course, at the point where the two lines run back together, there will be a temperature rise, so the orientation of the piping and the location of the drain legs is important. Repeat this scheme three or four times in succession (depending on your expect volume usage). The point on the piping where the air is diverted into the two separate runs will actually get much colder to the touch and the pressure drop will cool the air, dropping out the moisture. The cooler the air, the drier it will become. I will likely have to create a simple diagram to really explain what I am talking about, but it is a very effective, energy efficient way to remove all the moisture from your compressed air and it only requires draining to maintain peak performance. An effective system can also be made very compactly.

Scott

I have 45' of 1" black pipe in the shape of an M with 1" hose feeding the bottom of the right leg which goes up 10' has a 90* then a 1' pipe to the left then another 90* 10' down another 90* then a 1' pipe into a T & so on until you get the complete M shape. I have 1' drop pipes with 1" ball valves on both of the outside legs and the T, the only ones I ever get any water from are the one on the right where the feed hose is and the T, never have got anything on the far one. The left leg has a T fitting placed sideways with the regulator/ water separator on then continues into the drop pipe. Using this method I have never had problems with water or debris getting into the lines. Try to go vertical right after your feed line & make sure you have a drain at the bottom of that line since that's where you will get the most water from. Hope this isn't too confusing, tried to make a diagram of what it looks like but didn't have any luck

Dry air is easy.
http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1461

Even dryer air is easy too. All you need to make is a polisher.
http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1536&st=0&#last

Franz© said:

Dry air is easy.
http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1461

Even dryer air is easy too. All you need to make is a polisher.
http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1536&st=0&#last

Click to expand...

Welcome Franz!! I have built one of your devices and I am interested in more info on that "polisher"??

In your article you mention that the franzinator must go between the compressor and the receiver. I am trying to incorporate a coil bath to cool the air. On which side should I use the franzinator or should I lose the copper coils altogether? One of the issues I have found with the copper coils is that the water drops out of the air before is reaches the franzinator and collects in the bottom of the coil. Are the coils reduntant with your design? I also found that I need to make another to keep up with the 5hp.

here is a picture of my set up in my old location.

Dude, you've perfectly described the problem when the air is only cooled, and not given any opportunity to condense droplets onto a surface for seperation from the airstream.

If youhave fairly cheap water available, you'd want to look into building the Mark II model with a water cooled housing for even cheaper operation and higher efficiency.

On my 5hp Champion I have 2 Franzinators in paralell to deal with the amount of water I get in the Rochester, NY area.

The device MUST be located in the airstream where maximum temperature change can be acheived, and normally that is between the compressor and the receiver. Those coils won't help you when using a seperator of my design, so I suggest setting them aside for some other use, copper is dangerous to use distilling wiskey, so don't go there.

The polisher is an adaptation of a refinery device that has been downsized. It is employed at point of use in the airstream, where no temperature diferential can be acheived in the stream. The basic operation functions by making the airstream follow a route it doesn't want to follow, which causes the stream to drop any liquid it is carrying.
I don't have a lot of detail up on the polisher yet because I'm tired of my stuff on TBT getting ripped off by lowlifes from certain other sites, who then announce to the world it can't possibly work because they are engineers, and never saw such a thing in their carear. I've also wearied mightily of sunzabeaches who steal my entire posts and stick them on other boards as their work.

I'll probably do a posting on the Polisher in a couple weeks when I have the writeup completed.

Franz,
What about making the 2" column 10 foot high? Could you then forego the elbow in the middle? With the air having to go 6-8 feet high before returning downward, this should eliminate the need to direct the income air downward.

I like the idea, but to go all-out like the dude, I might as well get a refrigerated air dryer and be done with it.

BMW, the short answer is NO.

I been playing with this device over 20 years, and going more than 3 feet provides no additional yield.

The elbow in the middle ( I gotta come up with an AlGore type name for that) actually provides a few functions inside of the column. It was all explained to me once by a refridgeration engineer who actually knew his stuff, and I've probably forgotten half of what he told me.

Also, to save you the headache, larger pipe won't provide greater gain either.

About the only trick I haven't employed on the column was installing Pelton Cells, couldn't get them for free, and I was damned if I'd pay the price they wanted.

Franz© said:

BMW, the short answer is NO.

I been playing with this device over 20 years, and going more than 3 feet provides no additional yield.

The elbow in the middle ( I gotta come up with an AlGore type name for that) actually provides a few functions inside of the column. It was all explained to me once by a refridgeration engineer who actually knew his stuff, and I've probably forgotten half of what he told me.

Also, to save you the headache, larger pipe won't provide greater gain either.

About the only trick I haven't employed on the column was installing Pelton Cells, couldn't get them for free, and I was damned if I'd pay the price they wanted.

Click to expand...

Does anyone make these "special" pieces with the elbow already built-in? I can't weld...

Can't weld and admits it, a totally new concept. Well, I did anticipate that problem, and I even worked out the details of the Franzinator for nonweldors, such as members of ShytFloorTalk. It can all be done with threaded fittings and some JB Weld, or other suitable epoxy. I think I have the details on line, and I'll check.

Any qualified office clerk can build a Franzinator, and even build the new air polisher that goes ahead of the paint shooter as well. If you can file and screw you too can do it.

OK, I've rectified my delinquency.
http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showforum=28

Aparently I hadn't previously posted it to forestall theft by the Slow Flushing Turds that inhabit a certain unnamed site with the same initials.

I also added the how to build the Air Polisher (no welding required) that performs equally by comparison with my IR refridgerated dryer, and consumes no power in the process. The polisher functions as a point of use air storage as well. Double service at the same cost, and the most expensive component is available from Curbside Supply at a lot of their convenient locations.

Thanks Franz!!

Where do you use the polisher vs the franzinator? or is the polisher an addition at the end of the line??


I think it would be a interesting story to hear about you and the SFT

the dude said:

Thanks Franz!!

Where do you use the polisher vs the franzinator? or is the polisher an addition at the end of the line??


I think it would be a interesting story to hear about you and the SFT

Click to expand...

SFT? Where did you get that term?

The Franzinator (whatever generation & model) resides between the compressor and the receiver. It functions very well there. Anyplace downline from the receiver a Franzinator just becomes another water seperator that will remove some liquid water.

The Polisher resides between the airline and the tool, as close to the point of use as is practical. It employs totally different principals of physics from the Franzinator. The polisher is really a cheap and dirty copy of a piece of equipment used in the refinery business coupled with a device used in the natural gas delivery business.

ShytFloorTalk, well, there's quite a bit to it. It evolved from Weldunce Web after the owner of that former dormant site that went hotter than hell over a weekend when HoFart's ghynomanager fired ROCK on Friday afternoon, and told the weldors to like it or lump it. WW was available and unused, so we took it over and built it. After a while, the ******* owner of WW (an offshoot of Lawnsite) got it in his mind he could regulate a bunch of people who think hanging molten metal in the air is normal. He appointed his ****** boy to moderate the site. A week later WelDunce Web was swirling at the bottom of the toiletbowl. The owner of WW announced WW would continue to be the hot site unless and until someone among the troublemakers, he called them the Garbage Gang, grew the balls to set up their own site.

2 new sites appeared within the week. Toolboxtalk was set up by a young man named Caleb, because he knew how to do it, and his friends needed a site, and SFT was set up to be a profit center by an alcy.

I was in on SFT from the beginning, and showed the owner (for lack of a few terms I'd like to use) how to employ an internet site as a fat tax writeoff.
The owner is a traveling salesman for a soap manufacturer and really has no intrest in the site other than making money from it.
We had an agreement back before Day 1.
I along with a handfull of others built the place over a year or so.

I wound up in ICU with a heart problem, and the Hairdresser from Lubbock & his part time concubine gained control of SFT.

SFT was knocking down some fantastic tax deductions, running on a free server, fleecing the server provider, and WelDunce was backing up like a plugged toilet.
Along comes a magazine publisher looking to buy a website that is up, running, and has potential. SFT ownership gets wind of it, and figures to look more attractive to the buyer (who ain't real bright) by increasing membership. Owner & drinkin buddy Scumley figure the perfect group to drag in is the Pirate 4x4 croud, and go after Pirate members.

Meanwhile, a 7 year old kid becomes a mamber of SFT, with everybody's full knowledge and agreement certain words don't appear on the forum. No big thing.

Next thing I know, Pirate asswipe arrives and starts with the F bomb all over the place. I PM the guy and ask him to edit. He refused & got worse. The hairdresser & concubine have Mod power to delete the posts or edit them, so I ask them to do so. They answer telling me they can't without Owner's permission. I tell both of them what they are good for.

Owner ain't got the balls to respond to me, so I get fed up and walk off SFT.
Owner sends me a Email telling me it's too Fing bad I didn't croak from the heart problem, but now he has his board and I can't do a thing about it.

The hairdresser and concubine begin propoganda, telling everyone I'm welcome to come back any time I want to, the runt hairdresser is a good writer, and learned bullshytting real well makin ugly women think they look good. Meanwhile, I'm completely locked off SFT.

Owner, hairdresser & concubine think they got smarter than their Rabi. Big mistake, they forgot I had personally © every post I made. I have my lawyer buddy inform SFT owner he can either pay royalty, buy, or remove my material. He grows beerballs. He has munchkins strip © off all my posts.
He finally about a month later finds out I will own him for the rest of his life for © misuse, and archives the entire board.

That's the short version.

First, glad to see you here, Franz. From following your posts through the years on other boards I know that you are a wealth of information and tell it like it is.

I happened onto Weldunce Web (as you put it) shortly after the Hofart incident and moved along to SFT after the sh*t hit the fan at WW... Also have to admit to being over on Pirate - there's some interesting stuff every now and then. But you do have to have a thick skin and just learn to ignore a certain amount of the drama. And lately, like SFT, their own popularity is killing them as you get every teenage 4x4 owner who thinks he knows everything coming into the place...

As with a lot of things in this digital age, the process of evolution has speeded up significantly. Unless a site has a fairly limited following, they tend to get "discovered" and become popular and then that popularity in itself leads to their demise...