8' T5HO fixtures at HomeDepo - Anyone using them

The_Tango · Sep 21, 2011

Stopped by HD and saw a 8' T5 HighOutput fixture they started carrying. Talk about bright! $70 without bulbs - I may have to rethink my lighting solution. I was going to use 16 4' 2-bulb fixtures these put the T8 to shame. The sales person said that they could be mounted directly to ceiling (don't know if this is correct or not.

Anyone using them - Couldn't find much about them on the web.

TZR 254T5HO

williaty · Sep 22, 2011

Unfortunately, the T5 fixtures are only a little bit brighter and more efficient than T8 yet cost a WHOLE lot more. So you never make it back in terms of ROI. Additionally, T5 is optimized for higher operating temperatures than T8 since T5 was initially developed for under-cabinet and other confined-space lighting. This means that they de-rate HARD in cooler temps. I don't have the de-rating chart at hand, but it's something like they're 15% dimmer than T8 at 70F and below and something like 50% dimmer than T8 by 50F. At 90F, the T5 is just barely slightly brighter than T8 and will have a much longer survival time at that temperature. All that assumes equal length bulbs.

Anyway, I'm sure you can find the chart if you really want to but the overall take-away is that the sweet spot for garage and basement and shop lighting right now is T8.

StaggeringGoat · Sep 22, 2011

williaty said:
but the overall take-away is that the sweet spot for garage and basement and shop lighting right now is T8.

I agree, for the price. If money is no object, then yeah...T5s everywhere.

4' T8 is about 2900 lumens
4' T5HO is about 5000 lumens

That means if you have two T8s for every one T5HO, the T8s will be brighter, and cheaper. T5HO stuff is more than twice as expensive as T8s, so you can afford more of the T8s.

Also, the T5HOs aren't really any more efficient than T8s. T8 = 90 lumens/watt, T5HO = 92 lumens/watt.

williaty · Sep 22, 2011

You're not comparing apples to apples. Compare a T8 to a T5 and then a T8HO to a T5HO.

You're comparing a 1.8L NA to a 3.0L turbo there.

StaggeringGoat · Sep 22, 2011

williaty said:
You're not comparing apples to apples. Compare a T8 to a T5 and then a T8HO to a T5HO.

You're comparing a 1.8L NA to a 3.0L turbo there.

The point is that a two strip T8 fixture puts out more light per foot than a single bulb T5HO and they have similar efficiency. It's cheaper to use more T8s that to use T5HO currently for the same number of total lumens.

I suppose if for some reason you need to limit the number of fixtures T5HO could be better, but it's a lot more expensive. If a bulb or a ballast gives out it's going to cost more to replace.

StaggeringGoat · Sep 22, 2011

Is this the fixture you're talking about?
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lithonia-lighting-4-light-fluorescent-strip-light-fixture-207152.html

Be careful, the model number makes it sound like a 54 watt T5HO, but the description says it uses 28 watt T5s. Maybe a typo, I don't know.

williaty · Sep 22, 2011

StaggeringGoat said:
The point is that a two strip T8 fixture puts out more light per foot than a single bulb T5HO and they have similar efficiency. It's cheaper to use more T8s that to use T5HO currently for the same number of total lumens.

I suppose if for some reason you need to limit the number of fixtures T5HO could be better, but it's a lot more expensive. If a bulb or a ballast gives out it's going to cost more to replace.

Correct, and that was actually part of my initial rebuttal to the original poster.

54FordPanel · Sep 22, 2011

I've always thought 8' lights would be a pain to replace. I have a hard enough time getting 4' lights to line up and rotate in. Just for that reason alone, I stay away from the 8' fixtures.

The_Tango · Sep 22, 2011

The 8' T8 at HD is $60
The 8' T5HO at HD is $70
So cost is not a big difference - Go look at the two in person. The T5HO on the wall next to the T8 huge difference in light output. Yes - http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lithoni...re-207152.html are the ones I'm talking about.

"I've always thought 8' lights would be a pain to replace" - Uses 4 - 4' bulbs.

I am going back and check out the 54w/32w you stated.

dave67fd · Sep 22, 2011

Scrap all that **** and go with these.

http://www.contractorlighting.com/8ft-lamp-watt-fluorescent-double-channel-strip-120277-p-176.html

BigJohn20 · Sep 22, 2011

Whatever you do, make sure the ballasts are dual-rated for 120v/277v.

The reason I say this is generally the dual-rated 120/277v are commercial/industrial ballasts, and as such, tend to last considerably longer and perform better than the generic 120v residential ballasts.

Personally, I'm a fan of T8 fixtures for residential. Low cost, easy availability, good performance, and available in a multitude of configurations. The lamps are also considerably cheaper than T5s and availability of different lamps for the T8s is much greater (color temperature, CRI, lumens, life expectancy).

DeuceDude · Sep 22, 2011

I have been using them for about three weeks. HD didn't have the HO bulbs or the display up. Bought them anyway. My thought so far;
Very Very Bright !!!
Very Light and compact in size; hung the 8ft fixture by myself
Seems to be High Quality ballast, dual-rated 120/277
Wouldn't think twice about ceiling mounted
Wouldn't mind if my other lights went so I could fit entire garage with these!
$70 fixture
$38 Bulbs
Worth every penny!

The_Tango · Sep 22, 2011

This is the ballast:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/62549/BS-QTP4X54T5HOU.html

williaty · Sep 22, 2011

Just keep in mind you guys are all going to be screwed by your T5s as the weather turns colder. Look up the temperature de-rating curves for them.

Charles (in GA) · Sep 22, 2011

HERE is the spec sheet that covers this fixture

The specs Home Depot gives are apparently wrong, as the model they list..............

TZR 2 54T5HO MVOLT 1/4 GEB10PS

Uses the 54 watt T5 High Output bulbs rated at 4450 lumens per lamp. This particular unit has a multi-voltage ballast (120-277v, 50/60 Hz) and they may be surface mounted per the brochure.

Charles

Charles (in GA) · Sep 22, 2011

I have two 8ft T12 fixtures over my wooden workbenches, I may have to look at replacing them with these.

I have the fixtures mounted on 3/4 conduit formed in an inverted J and mounted to the workbenches them selves, you move the benches, the lights go with them. Operated by pull chain switches in the ends of the fixtures.

I know, the mounting is not code and improper use of conduit, but it has held up for many years now (one of them, about 30+ years, the other about 10 or 12 years.)

Charles

MN4x4 · Sep 22, 2011

There is one point about T5's vs either T12 or T8 fixtures that I haven't seen mentioned. Both the T12 and T8's fluoresce at 60 Hz, which causes them to flicker. For many people this is not an issue, but in others it can cause intense headaches and other side effects.

T5's fluoresce at many thousands of Hz, so do not have that side effect. They can be much more comfortable to work under and, as stated above, MAN are they bright!!!!

If your shop is heated or doesn't get cold, I strongly recommend the T5's.

williaty · Sep 22, 2011

MN4x4 said:
If your shop is heated or doesn't get cold, I strongly recommend the T5's.

Just "heated" isn't enough. Here are the thermal de-rating curves for a typical T5 and T8 lamp:

As you can see, at 70F, which would be the highest most people heat their shops to, the T5 bulb has already dropped to 75% of rated output and is more than 20% dimmer than a T8. If you come out on a colder day or set your shop thermostat to a more economical 50F while you're not working in the shop, that causes the T5s to drop to 40% of their rated output and be 35% dimmer than a T8.

Charles (in GA) · Sep 22, 2011

54FordPanel said:
I've always thought 8' lights would be a pain to replace. I have a hard enough time getting 4' lights to line up and rotate in. Just for that reason alone, I stay away from the 8' fixtures.

It uses four each 4 ft bulbs in pairs, end to end. No 8 ft bulbs in this fixture. The T5 bulbs are somewhat different length from T8 and T12's, so the entire fixture is 92" long while a two bulb T12 with 8 ft bulbs is 96".

I looked a these this evening in HD. They had the fixtures, but not the bulbs, DUH! which is basically what the lady said when I asked about bulbs, she had seen several people load up the fixture on a cart, discover they didn't have any bulbs, so they went back and unloaded the fixture and left.

These are indeed T5HO 54 watt bulb units, multi volt, 120-277

Charles

Charles (in GA) · Sep 22, 2011

Note that the temps given in the chart above, ARE NOT AMBIENT room temps, but rather, are BULB TEMPS. Thus an exposed bulb will not perform as well as a enclosed bulb, in cold weather.......... since the bulb will radiate more heat and more easily in the cold, however, the bulb will still come up to near operating temps and most likely produce near max light output.

HERE is one explanation of this.

You might READ thru this also.

Basically, a T5 runs hotter, as it has less surface area to radiate heat, and even in cold ambient temps, will run hotter than a T8 due to this. Does it lose efficiency? Yes, how much? probably not much more than a T8 when all is said and done.

It will be interesting to see how the T5HO lamps at work perform in the cold. The aircraft hangar I work in is illuminated with a couple thousand fixtures with 8 each 54 watt T5HO bulbs. They are mounted about 100 ft off the floor, and in the winter, while the building is heated, its none too good, given that doors are sometimes left open, or cannot be closed due to airplanes being half in, half out, and such.

My old T12 8 ft lamps over the workbenches are getting dimmer, last winter, in the cold, you could see the "waves" of light run down the bulb, they never would come up to temp and full brilliance. They hum and the bulbs are starting to darken on the ends. I will be removing these and donating them to a Habitat ReStore and installing the T5HO fixtures, This winter, my shop will have heat also, but as I age, I need more light, and this will be the ideal thing to improve the lighting on the workbenches (if I can just get them cleared off).

Charles

williaty · Sep 22, 2011

Charles (in GA) said:
Note that the temps given in the chart above, ARE NOT AMBIENT room temps, but rather, are BULB TEMPS. Thus an exposed bulb will not perform as well as a enclosed bulb, in cold weather.......... since the bulb will radiate more heat and more easily in the cold, however, the bulb will still come up to near operating temps and most likely produce near max light output.

Try it.

I thought this too. I'm sure in a sealed fixture, the bulbs end up way above the ambient temperature of the room. Hell, my T8 underhood bar light ends up way hotter than room temp just because it's in a clear plastic sleeve.

On the other hand, the typical "shop lighting" open-air fixtures I have, and probably everyone else has, got about 5F hotter than ambient temp last winter. I have a bunch of thermocouples for various reasons, so I taped one in firm contact with a T8 bulb and let one dangle about the same height from the ceiling as the light fixture. There was almost no temperature difference and that 5F diff took about an hour to establish itself.

BigJohn20 · Sep 23, 2011

Charles (in GA) said:
It uses four each 4 ft bulbs in pairs, end to end. No 8 ft bulbs in this fixture. The T5 bulbs are somewhat different length from T8 and T12's, so the entire fixture is 92" long while a two bulb T12 with 8 ft bulbs is 96".

I looked a these this evening in HD. They had the fixtures, but not the bulbs, DUH! which is basically what the lady said when I asked about bulbs, she had seen several people load up the fixture on a cart, discover they didn't have any bulbs, so they went back and unloaded the fixture and left.

These are indeed T5HO 54 watt bulb units, multi volt, 120-277

Charles

They do carry the bulbs, I'll get you a SKU after I stop in today.

Most of the employees there are clueless as to this bulb and have no idea where the bulbs are.

The_Tango · Sep 23, 2011

I appreciate the comments & opinions that have been given on my question but I believe that I am going to try the T5HO fixtures at HD. Talked to a friend that has a 60 x 120 garage/shop that has T5 lighting. He said that it takes about 5 minutes for the lights to get to full output but he has had no problem with light reduction the last two winters. I will get everyone know how they do this winter - Since my garage will be heated maybe they will work.

DeuceDude · Sep 23, 2011

FYI,

As I said before, HD didn't have the bulbs at time of purchase, so I went to local elec supply and got these;

SYLVANIA FP54/841/HO/ECO
4100k color temp

P.S. HD did have T5 bulbs, but not High Output...

BigJohn20 · Sep 23, 2011

DeuceDude,

The SKU for the bulbs is 591-292. If they carry the fixture, they carry the bulb. The bulb may not be out on the shelf due to laziness, but they do have it.

DeuceDude · Sep 23, 2011

Thanks for the heads up! Cheaper too!
I think I may re-purpose my other garage lights to basement duty... :thumbup:

Charles (in GA) · Sep 23, 2011

BigJohn20 said:
DeuceDude,

The SKU for the bulbs is 591-292. If they carry the fixture, they carry the bulb. The bulb may not be out on the shelf due to laziness, but they do have it.

While the HD system apparently has them as a stock item, its very possible that stores do not have them, as the "buyer" for that store may not have seen fit to order them. Not every store stocks the same. Each store has a buyer who determines what the store will and will not carry, however the store employees need to be on the ball and get request in to stock items like this when it is needed to sell another product. The lady last night I talked to at HD said she had been thru this already, that they indeed DID NOT have that bulb, in stock, in that store.

Charles

BigJohn20 · Sep 23, 2011

Charles (in GA) said:
While the HD system apparently has them as a stock item, its very possible that stores do not have them, as the "buyer" for that store may not have seen fit to order them. Not every store stocks the same. Each store has a buyer who determines what the store will and will not carry, however the store employees need to be on the ball and get request in to stock items like this when it is needed to sell another product. The lady last night I talked to at HD said she had been thru this already, that they indeed DID NOT have that bulb, in stock, in that store.

Charles

Without giving too much away, I can assure you that every store that was part of the initial T5HO rollout and T5HO expansion had both the T5HO fixture and bulb SKUs activated. If there was a simple oversight and the SKU wasn't activated, it is as simple as having a salaried manager send out an e-mail to the RMM (Regional Merchandising Manager). They can skip that and request the SKU be activated on their web portal.

Like I said, if they don't have the bulb in-stock, it's because of laziness. Well, either that or incompetence.

If you give me the store number or address, I can personally check to see if the SKU is active in the store (will have to wait until Monday).

Also, in-stock does not correlate to not carried by the store. There are generally 4 categories of merchandise status at HD. Active, Inactive, Seasonal, and Clearance. I wouldn't doubt that the SKU is active in the store, with on-hands showing, but nobody in the store can locate the item. Instead of zeroing out the inventory to receive more stock, they're simply letting the count float.

A real quick test is to go to the website page and go to check store availability. If it shows Out Of Stock or "X Available" than the SKU is part of the store's assortment and it is on the store to get them in. If the SKU is showing as "Item Not Sold At This Store" then some legwork has to be done.

And now since I've basically been outed:
Yes, I do work part-time for Home Depot.

Charles, if you would want to relay some information immediately to the store that you frequent, I can get you some information/numbers where your store can get the product in the building ASAP. Just shoot me a PM.

litljay · Sep 24, 2011

I'm going to need to make a HD run and check these out. We run T5HO's in our warehouse in a high bay fixture. I was talking to our electrician, and the one's we have can't (or not recommended) to be installed flush against the ceiling.
He was thinking that he could find some flush mounted ones, but the price he mentioned was more than $70.

Charles (in GA) · Sep 24, 2011

litljay said:
I'm going to need to make a HD run and check these out. We run T5HO's in our warehouse in a high bay fixture. I was talking to our electrician, and the one's we have can't (or not recommended) to be installed flush against the ceiling.
He was thinking that he could find some flush mounted ones, but the price he mentioned was more than $70.

According to THIS SPEC SHEET these fixtures can be surface mounted.

From the spec sheet paragraph title "Installation", "Ideal for surface-mount or suspended."

Charles

The_Tango · Sep 25, 2011

I am looking to use the "ZSPEG Z Spring Hanger" which this fixture is support to be able to use. Should make installation a bit easier. Couldn't find a web source - Hoping a local lighting place can order them.

After "BigJohn20" posted the SKU number I bought all the local (Knoxville) bulbs that the 3 HPepot in my area had. Also got 2 fixtures to give them a try.

The_Tango · Sep 25, 2011

Excuse my dud question - There is a "C" shaped piece of metal inside the fixture - What is it for? If you take the end off you can slide it out of the groove it is in.

DeuceDude · Sep 25, 2011

The White Alum piece is for joining two fixtures together, trim piece if you will.
Save or discard if hanging fixtures separately *****-*****

Charles (in GA) · Sep 26, 2011

Visited a different HD today, and again, they had the display with its super bright lights (I suppose the display came with bulbs) but the guy in lighting said they absolutely did not have and had not received the bulbs.

This over the workbench light conversion should make a good winter project. Possibly they will be cheaper by then.....

I really think I want 5000K bulbs (daylight) rather than 4100K bulbs (cool white) and the only way I have found them is 40 to a box!!! at about $7 a bulb. Grainger has them, also 40 to a box, at..... get this..... $22 per bulb!!!

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f54t5-high-output-fluorescent-tubes-5000k/

Scroll down to the bottom for the Phillips and Sylvania bulbs (I'm not fooling with the off brands)

and at Grainger.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GE-LIGHTING-Fluorescent-Lamp-5AE36 is $22.17 ea

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GE-LIGHTING-Fluorescent-Lamp-1TGY9 is $36.55 ea

The HD product number provided by BigJohn20 is 591-292 is also for a case of 15 each at $7.97 each (online price) of the 4100K cool white bulbs. I'm not so sure that the demo on the display doesn't have daylight bulbs in it (wouldn't surprise me for a large company such as Lithonia to do this to help sell a product).

Charles

BigJohn20 · Sep 26, 2011

Charles (in GA) said:
Visited a different HD today, and again, they had the display with its super bright lights (I suppose the display came with bulbs) but the guy in lighting said they absolutely did not have and had not received the bulbs.

This over the workbench light conversion should make a good winter project. Possibly they will be cheaper by then.....

I really think I want 5000K bulbs (daylight) rather than 4100K bulbs (cool white) and the only way I have found them is 40 to a box!!! at about $7 a bulb. Grainger has them, also 40 to a box, at..... get this..... $22 per bulb!!!

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f54t5-high-output-fluorescent-tubes-5000k/

Scroll down to the bottom for the Phillips and Sylvania bulbs (I'm not fooling with the off brands)

and at Grainger.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GE-LIGHTING-Fluorescent-Lamp-5AE36 is $22.17 ea

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GE-LIGHTING-Fluorescent-Lamp-1TGY9 is $36.55 ea

The HD product number provided by BigJohn20 is 591-292 is also for a case of 15 each at $7.97 each (online price) of the 4100K cool white bulbs. I'm not so sure that the demo on the display doesn't have daylight bulbs in it (wouldn't surprise me for a large company such as Lithonia to do this to help sell a product).

Charles

Charles,

The division that I work for at Home Depot was in charge of installing the lights and setting both the lights and the bulbs in the set.

The reason that I can assure you that if the store carries the light, they carry the bulb, is because of one of the tasks that my group was assigned. Our responsibility was to make sure that the bulb SKU 591-292 was active in the stores that carry the fixture. If it was not active, we were to have the SKU activated.

The bulbs in the fixtures are the exact SKU that I told you we carry, 591-292. If the display is lit, that means the store has the bulbs. The fixtures DID NOT come with the bulbs. We had to mark the bulbs down from stock merchandise.

The SKU has an erroneous description both in the stores and on the website. Home Depot has yet to correct the description.

If you visit a Home Depot again, have them put the SKU in their FIRST Phone (the device that looks like an oversized rugged cell phone) under "Item Inquiry" and have them take a look at the 2nd box on the left, halfway down the screen. It should say "MST: ACTIVE."

If you give me the addresses or store numbers of the stores you visited, I can check both to see if the item is active and if they have any of the bulb.

To add, all the stores within 50 miles of Griffin, Spalding County, GA, 30223 carry the bulb.

dave67fd · Sep 26, 2011

First off, how many fixtures are you looking to purchase? how big is your shop?

Ok if your only needing a couple of these T5 fixtures OR if cost is of no concern.

Costs are average of the HD item in question compared to my cost for the units i purchased.

Of course we can see the T5's are fairly brighter than the T8's and you could in essence use 6 T5 fixtures at a cost of $588 compared to 10 T8 fixtures at a cost of $530. BUT you only get 16 watts more for $58. Of course if you factor in the cost of bulb replacement in the next 15-20yrs the T5's clearly loose. I have 10 of the T8's in a ~1000sq/ft area at 10' and trust me it's nearly blinding.

T5's
WATTAGE= 216 WATTS (4@54W)
T5 4 BULB FIXTURE= ~$70
T5 BULB, EACH= ~$7
TOTAL= $98

T8's
WATTAGE=128 WATTS (4@32W)
T8 4 BULB FIXTURE= ~$45
T8 BULB EACH= ~$2
TOTAL= $53

PRICE DIFFERENCE- $45 (EACH FIXTURE WITH BULBS)

Now purchase 10 of the T5's thats $980
and $530 for the T8's

T5 x 10 total wattage is 2160 watts.
T8 x 10 total wattage is 1280 watts

T5 x 6 fixtures= $588=1296 watts
T8 x 10 fixtures= $530=1280 watts

Charles (in GA) · Sep 26, 2011

Wattage means nothing, its lumens that indicate how much light is given off by the bulb. Lumens per watt tells you how efficient a bulb is.

T5HO 5,000 lumens/54 watts = 92.6 lumens per watt

T8 (standard, not HO) 2,800 lumens/32 watts = 87.5 lumens per watt

*****

In the example you give above...............

24 ea of the T5HO 54w bulbs at 5,000 lumens each = 120,000 lumens

40 ea of the T8 34w bulbs at 2,800 lumens each = 112,000 lumens

You nearly doubled the number of bulbs with the T8 and still haven't achieved the same lumen output as the T5HO with your scenario.

T5 bulbs will fall in price to near the current price for high end T8's as the T8 takes over and T12's disappear from store shelves. You will see that within the next 5 years I think. There is a huge push for efficiency right now, and the T5 bulbs HO or not, give efficiency that the T8 cannot equal.

Charles

dave67fd · Sep 27, 2011

Charles,
Correct i do agree, but in essence in this tough economy i believe initial costs will sway the consumer to buy the cheaper units sacrificing some efficiency and brightness. I would also agree prices on the T5 may drop but i doubt they would go as low as the T8.

Although i nearly doubled the amount of T8 bulbs the cost is still less than half the cost of the T5's. Don't get me wrong i don't dislike the T5's just don't believe they are yet cost effective vs lighting/efficiency. I also can't justify a $45 difference in the fixture as well.

24 ea of the T5HO 54w bulbs at $7= $168

40 ea of the T8 34w bulbs at $2 (i paid $1.58 ea)= $80

I wouldn't hesitate for a second buying the T8's over the T5's in my opinion but if your looking to illuminate your Ferrari's, lambo's etc.. then i guess the T5's would be a no-brainer.

Charles (in GA) · Sep 29, 2011

Well, today, I go back to one of the HD stores that previously did not have the bulbs, this time with SKU in hand, but before I can ask someone, I spot on the shelf a box of the bulbs. It was in a place next to standard T5 28w bulbs and that spot last week had a box of 28w sitting there (yes I looked at the individual bulbs to verify) and the shelf label last week was the same as the the adjoining one for 28w T5 bulbs. Today, the shelf label was new, and the correct T5HO 54w bulb label.

I really wanted daylight 5000k bulbs but these cool white 4100k bulbs are quite brite and "white" and probably do the job fine. I'm sure in a year or two, all the rest of the bulb ratings will be available individually (rather than in cases of 25 or 40 like now) and the prices will have come down.

Anyhow, I walked out with a fixture and 4 bulbs. I replaced a old two bulb T12 8ft strip and its 60w bulbs, so I went from 120w of humming magnetic ballast and dimming bulbs (never were really bright though) to 216w of silent brilliance. This new fixture weighs less than half what the old one did. I took the pull chain switch out of the old one and drilled a hole in the end cap of the new one and mounted it in there.

Charles

W-Cummins · Sep 30, 2011

Charles can you verify if the ballast in that fixture is the same as listed in the link above ie. a
Sylvania Quicktronic 49160

Thanks William....

8' T5HO fixtures at HomeDepo - Anyone using them

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