Anyone use the Inject-Tite epoxy for anchors for MaxJax?

WVBrady · Oct 7, 2011

I installed the wedge type anchors first and was not satisified that they would hold properly. Some drew up within 3-4 turns and others never did tighten up, so I pounded them down so that I could install the epoxy anchors that are in the kit from Garage Equipment. The kit contained two tubes of the Inject-Tite epoxy, which are installed with an ordinary caulking gun.

I had driven the original anchors down just enough so that the new anchors would be flush with the floor and I packed some paper towel material down in the hole so that none of the epoxy would go down into or past the lower anchor.

The instructions said to fill the hole half full and then insert the anchor. It was hard to see exactly how much was half way, but when I inserted the first anchor none squeezed out the top, so I thought that I had not overfilled it. When I started filling the second hole, it suddenly got very hard to squeeze the handle and I looked and the plunger was barely half way down the tube. I thought that the epoxy must have hardened in the tube, so I quickly switched to the second tube and put it into the next few holes and drove in the anchors (they were a snug fit).

I talked to Gabe at Garage Equipment and he agreed to send me a couple more tubes, after I convinced him that I hadn't taken a break in the middle of the install.

This evening I got curious and cut open one of the tubes. I was amazed to find that it was EMPTY! There was a HOLLOW CYLINDER in the tube which filled up half the tube and the epoxy hadn't hardened in the tube at all! Now it appears that the problem was not the epoxy hardening prematurely, but just not enough epoxy. I will call Gabe back after I torque the anchors and see how they hold, because I am not sure that I got enough epoxy in them.

Has anyone else used this system, and if so, what were your results?

WVBrady · Oct 24, 2011

More info on Inject-Tite epoxy for anchors for MaxJax

It appears that the hollow cylinder contained the epoxy and the catalyst was in the front of the tube. The external plunger pushes the cylinder forwards against an internal plunger, which forces the epoxy to the front where it is mixed with the catylist. What this means is that when the hollow cylinder hits the end of the tube, the tube is empty, even though the external plunger is only halfway down the tube. Looking down the back of the tube, I could see that the plunger was only halfway down, so I thought the tube still contained epoxy.

With the first two tubes of epoxy I installed 8 anchors. Three of them held solidly at 60 lb-ft of torque and the others pulled out with almost no traces of epoxy on them. I think the problem was that my concrete is 4 in. thick and the anchor is 6 in. long. The instructions say that you should drill the hole a little over 6 inches deep and fill it halfway with epoxy and insert the anchor. If the hole was all in concrete, this would squish the epoxy up the sides as the anchor was inserted. The problem in my case was that most of the epoxy wound up in the gravel, with very little up in the concrete.

To avoid this problem, when I redid my anchors I first stuffed foam rubber down into the hole in the gravel up to the bottom of the concrete and filled the hole with epoxy almost to the top. When I inserted the anchors a little squished out the top and then I drove the anchors on down to level with the floor. When I tested them the next day, they all held to about 60 lb-ft, which I thought sufficient.

The epoxy anchors feel much more solid to me than the wedge anchors. If I were doing them from the start, I am not sure what the best procedure would be. I think I had already lined the hole in the gravel with epoxy on my first attempt, so this may have helped with the second try. I think I would again put sponge rubber to the bottom of the concrete and fill the hole with epoxy.

skamp · Feb 1, 2012

Sorry to bring this post back alive but I understand you used the 5.75" long epoxy anchors with 4" concrete. That would leave ~1.75" inches of the anchor going into dirt or the void below the concrete.

I know the rating for this anchor is much higher than the PD58 wedge anchor (16500). I wonder what the rating would be on the epoxy anchor you used in 30% shallower concrete. Would the rerating factor be 30%. If so that would but the epoxy anchor at 18408 for 4" concrete and 20512 for 4.5" concrete (22% de-rating factor). I ask because I may be in the same position as you. I have 4-4.5" of concrete and really do not like the wedge anchor.

Any engineers out there that can speak to any de-rating factor when using epoxy anchors in shallow depth applications?

Steve

skamp · Feb 1, 2012

I actually just talked to the folks at wej-it and they think the de-rating factor would be much lower than I thought originally. The reason is the anchor is 5.75" long but the epoxy part starts 1.5 - 1.75" down the anchor. This means in 4" concrete only 2.25 - 2.5" of the possible 4.0 - 4.25" of remaining anchor would be epoxied. This would be a 41-44% reduction of surface area that the anchor would be using. Using that as a straight de-rating factor it still gives 14,726 in tension. That is not far off from the 16500 of the PD58. The story gets a bit better for 4.5" of concrete. This gives 29-31% reduction in surface area which brings the tension number to 18,145-18,671 in tension. Thoughts?

Steve

NewShockerGuy · Jun 8, 2012

Can you post a link on where to get these types of fastners... I am about ready to get the maxjax and would prefer these type of epoxy fastners than the ones that are supplied...

Thanks,
-Nigel

NewShockerGuy · Jun 8, 2012

I found these:

http://www.gesusa.com/Epoxy-Grip-Anchor-Bolt-Kit-p/100121.htm

They are EXPENSIVE... omg... but I feel these would be better than the ones people are having issues with?

-Nigel

mooman · Jun 8, 2012

Hilti is the only supplier we use for chemical anchors. We install pallet rack and industrial machines.

Todd.Brock · Nov 11, 2012

I ran into these exac same problems. The wedge anchors didn't hold, Gabe at Danmar recommended epoxy. He recommended a coffee fiter to stuff in the hole. These have to be a have assed solution. I pushed the wedge anchors down and filled the bottom of the hole with epoxy. I then filled epoxy around each of the shoulders in the epoxy anchor as I put it in. I had the same issue with the tubes. I talked Gabe into sending them to me for $100 shipped after he saw I had bought the lift from them. They are garage Equipment Supply and Danmar. Same folks. Anyone else in this scenario?

dmeadow · Nov 11, 2012

Todd.Brock said:
I ran into these exac same problems. The wedge anchors didn't hold, Gabe at Danmar recommended epoxy. He recommended a coffee fiter to stuff in the hole. These have to be a have assed solution. I pushed the wedge anchors down and filled the bottom of the hole with epoxy. I then filled epoxy around each of the shoulders in the epoxy anchor as I put it in. I had the same issue with the tubes. I talked Gabe into sending them to me for $100 shipped after he saw I had bought the lift from them. They are garage Equipment Supply and Danmar. Same folks. Anyone else in this scenario?

I bought the epoxy anchors and epoxy separately from Grainger after having similar problems with the wedge anchors. They were a LOT more expensive than buying them through GE, even at their list price of $150.

I used some hardware cloth rolled into a tube and stuffed into the hole to address the void issue. I did this after looking at inserts used to set epoxy anchors in cinder blocks with voids.

WVBrady · Nov 11, 2012

skamp said:
I actually just talked to the folks at wej-it and they think the de-rating factor would be much lower than I thought originally. The reason is the anchor is 5.75" long but the epoxy part starts 1.5 - 1.75" down the anchor. This means in 4" concrete only 2.25 - 2.5" of the possible 4.0 - 4.25" of remaining anchor would be epoxied. This would be a 41-44% reduction of surface area that the anchor would be using. Using that as a straight de-rating factor it still gives 14,726 in tension. That is not far off from the 16500 of the PD58. The story gets a bit better for 4.5" of concrete. This gives 29-31% reduction in surface area which brings the tension number to 18,145-18,671 in tension. Thoughts?

Steve

I am sure that the wedge type anchors never reached anywhere close to 16500 lbs in my floor. My concrete was very hard and slow to drill, causing the walls of the hole to be very smooth. It took about a minute to drill 4 ", whereas when I drilled some holes in my mothers concrete porch it drilled so fast that I drilled the first hole too deep.

I think if you used enough epoxy you would have enough below the concrete to act like an expansion anchor, with the effective diameter of the anchor greater than the size of the hole. This would add to the strength of the 2.25 " on the side of the hole. As the British would say: "Use copious amounts of epoxy".

EvilWelder · Nov 12, 2012

mooman said:
Hilti is the only supplier we use for chemical anchors. We install pallet rack and industrial machines.

Same here till our vendor subbed Powers, very good product. Right now it is holding 1 1/4" by three foot deep column anchor boots in. The screens ****, go with toggle bolts in a hollow wall. For anchoring in a slab wedge anchors as deep as you can drill are second best to inbeds. Epoxy had its place but you must follow the procedure.

jmlcolorado · Nov 14, 2012

Another option would be Simpson Set XP.
I was installing hold down anchors for some apartments and the engineer spec'ed it out.
I had scheduled a pull test on some concrete reinforcing bars using the stuff and while the inspector was out, I had him do a pull test on the epoxied in anchors. His equipment used a threaded coupler to attache another rod on top, the used tubing to place load around the anchor and pull the anchor up.
We were using 3/8" galvanized steel and his gauge made it to 8300 psi before the anchor sheared. No movement was found at the epoxied joint. I was pretty impressed.

tenlug · Nov 15, 2012

Third vote for Hilti.I've used Hilti epoxy and anchors in hospital retorfit work. This involves continuos inspection and pull testing. If there was a failure it was bad concrete not the hilti prouduct. Hilti stuff works, not cheap but the best I've worked with. Steve

lovegarages · Feb 24, 2013

power-sert with wej-it epoxy in 10 inches of concrete. strong as hell.

NewShockerGuy · Mar 28, 2013

This is more of a general question about epoxy anchors.

Do you still SET them 1/8th below the concrete surface like you do with the wejit wedge anchors or do you put the epoxy anchors flush with the concrete?

I believe one of my holes is too large for the wedge anchor to properly set because it's larger than what it should... in which case I am most likely going to HAVE to use the epxoy anchor, which is fine, but from experience what is recommended? After the epoxy sets I take it the anchor will NOT be drawn up by the weight of the car or anything like that, right?

Thanks,
-Nigel

skamp · Mar 28, 2013

NewShockerGuy said:
This is more of a general question about epoxy anchors.

Do you still SET them 1/8th below the concrete surface like you do with the wejit wedge anchors or do you put the epoxy anchors flush with the concrete?

I believe one of my holes is too large for the wedge anchor to properly set because it's larger than what it should... in which case I am most likely going to HAVE to use the epxoy anchor, which is fine, but from experience what is recommended? After the epoxy sets I take it the anchor will NOT be drawn up by the weight of the car or anything like that, right?

Thanks,
-Nigel

Flush. Read this:

http://www.toggler.com/wejit/installation_power_sert.html

If you look at the spec (http://www.toggler.com/wejit/techspecs_power_sert.html) for the anchor it is something like 26,000 lbs per anchor. No way it is going anywhere.

Steve

In My Garage · Mar 28, 2013

NewShockerGuy said:
I believe one of my holes is too large for the wedge anchor to properly set because it's larger than what it should.

Thanks,
-Nigel

Nigel, did you check the factory installation PDF.

Are they that loose in the hole?

NewShockerGuy · Mar 29, 2013

Steve,

Excellent thanks for the info and links! Very good to know then that it's not going to pull out... still kind of blows my mind that epoxy can hold something to that much strength.

Alex,

Two of holes are actually larger than what they should be. When I put the anchor in I still have to pound it in, but the effort to pound in the anchor is no where NEAR what the others were and when it's half way in the hole I can wobble it side to side by a couple mm's... I realize why this is, when I was drilling I corrected the bit half way by slightly pushing on the drill to the left to make sure the laser level was on the center of the bit... knowing what I know now, I should have just kept at the current angle that I was drilling and would have most likely been fine. Oh well... at least they all are not like this!..ahha

-Nigel

Ign · Mar 29, 2013

I've not personally seen an epoxy-specific anchor, so that tells you how much I know about all this. When we did my lift my buddy had the Hilti gun and epoxy tubes, so we used that. I cut the wedge wings off the provided wedge anchors, gave them some peripheral grooves with my angle grinder for the epoxy to grab, and crammed them in the holes with a lot of epoxy. The only challenge was keeping the epoxy off the threads, which wasn't a big deal.

My reasoning was that the provided anchors were supposed to be strong enough to anchor the lift without shearing so just how they're held into the concrete is of little concern as ultimate strength relates to the fastener itself, ie whether they're wedged in there or glued in there. I know uptight engineers are freaking out, but take it down to a practical standpoint.

This was a two-post Bendpak, not a MaxJax.

DonnyT · Mar 29, 2013

Ign said:
I've not personally seen an epoxy-specific anchor, so that tells you how much I know about all this. When we did my lift my buddy had the Hilti gun and epoxy tubes, so we used that. I cut the wedge wings off the provided wedge anchors, gave them some peripheral grooves with my angle grinder for the epoxy to grab, and crammed them in the holes with a lot of epoxy. The only challenge was keeping the epoxy off the threads, which wasn't a big deal.

My reasoning was that the provided anchors were supposed to be strong enough to anchor the lift without shearing so just how they're held into the concrete is of little concern as ultimate strength relates to the fastener itself, ie whether they're wedged in there or glued in there. I know uptight engineers are freaking out, but take it down to a practical standpoint.

This was a two-post Bendpak, not a MaxJax.

Holy ****!

lovegarages · Mar 30, 2013

used the epoxy and power serts in 10 inch concrete footers. Strong as hell.

hanksgarage · Nov 19, 2013

gonna have to give GES tomorrow and get some of these :yikes:

sidwin · Apr 2, 2014

regguy1 said:
I took a second look at the anchors and you're right it won't work...bad suggestion

has anyone noticed that epoxy anchors require 6.5 inches to depth?

and they are also out of stock and discontinued from wej-it.

I had 3 spin on me and i removed them and then put new ones back down and this time i coated the outside of them with epoxy and then some in the hole. hopefully they will hold. i'm worried they won't. one post all 5 went down fine and one post only 2.

thanks,
Sid

de3 · Jul 4, 2014

i also have three that did not grip the concrete as expected. How did you remove them? thanks!!

garboui · Jul 4, 2014

Can someone explain to me the "shearing" loads that would cause a failure? I thought lift installs rely on tension in the fasteners?

WVBrady · Jul 4, 2014

de3 said:
i also have three that did not grip the concrete as expected. How did you remove them? thanks!!

I had drilled the holes completely through the concrete, so I just drove them down into the gravel/soil underneath.

Anyone use the Inject-Tite epoxy for anchors for MaxJax?

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