No 20A GFCIs made in USA?!?!

RaysnCayne · Oct 31, 2011

So I'm trying to outfit the beginning of my three wall receptacle circuits with GFCIs. I ran 12/2 wire so I need 20A GFCIs. And for the life of me I can't find any made in the states! What's up with that?

Lowes = Cooper Devices (Made in China)
Home Depot = Leviton (Made in China)
1st local professional electric supply = Pass & Seymour (Made in China)
2nd local pro shop = Cooper Devices (see above)
ebay = Found a listing for Wentworth 20A GFCIs (Made in China)

Help me out here guys. Where do I need to go to find US-made GFIs? I managed to get all the rest of my outlets (normal 20A, white) from Lowes. They're made by Cooper and have "Made in USA" stamped in them. Same for my Cooper switches. But why on earth (pun intended) can't I find a USA-made 20A GFCI???

mtne · Oct 31, 2011

yeah, good luck with that..............

I would call your local IBEW union hall and explain that you are trying to fine made in USA devices and if they could direct you to an appropriate source.

Norcal · Oct 31, 2011

Your not likely to find a GFCI receptacle that is made in the USA, all one can hope is that can find one that is not made by the ChiComs.

malibu101 · Oct 31, 2011

I don't know. I'm just asking.
Did you try Hubbell brand wiring devices?

jeffmoss26 · Oct 31, 2011

Beat me to it...I think Hubbell is still US made.

A_Pmech · Oct 31, 2011

Is it going to be inspected?

I hate GFCI's and their nuisance trips.

StumpjumperDave · Oct 31, 2011

Leviton 7899-HFW is made in USA...

project_junkie · Oct 31, 2011

Did you check on GFCI breakers? That way your whole curcuit is protected and you don't have to worry if you wired the first outlet correctly.

gatchel · Oct 31, 2011

You could take "20A GFCI's" out of the subject of your post and put just about anything in it's place. It is a DAMN shame but true...

Aceman · Oct 31, 2011

A_Pmech said:
Is it going to be inspected?

I hate GFCI's and their nuisance trips.

Our shop wires a lot of commercial shops/garages and I can't remember any of us having to go back for "nuisance trips."

Gooch · Oct 31, 2011

Aceman said:
Our shop wires a lot of commercial shops/garages and I can't remember any of us having to go back for "nuisance trips."

Yup, only time I've had issues with GFCI's, were user/installer error.

mtne · Oct 31, 2011

Gooch said:
Yup, only time I've had issues with GFCI's, were user/installer error.

+1, GFCI's work and while pricey do what their intended to. Now AFCI's on the other hand......... I've had some nuisance trip issues when they've been required on remodels.

Norcal · Oct 31, 2011

malibu101 said:
I don't know. I'm just asking.
Did you try Hubbell brand wiring devices?

They are not US made & a lot of Hubbell products are ChiCom, some Hubbell brown GFCI's that I have that have been around for a while were made in Korea.

Norcal · Oct 31, 2011

A_Pmech said:
Is it going to be inspected?

I hate GFCI's and their nuisance trips.

That is not a very enlightened statement as it is installer error or just doing the job they were designed to do in most cases.

Gary S · Oct 31, 2011

Aceman said:
Our shop wires a lot of commercial shops/garages and I can't remember any of us having to go back for "nuisance trips."

Same here. I have about 20 GFCIs in my house and garage. I haven't had one trip yet in the 8 years I've lived here.
Trips often aren't a nuisance. They are an indication of faulty equipment or wiring.

Stuart in MN · Oct 31, 2011

Do you really need 20 amp GFCIs and receptacles? Most if not all 15 amp GFCIs are rated for 20 amp feedthrough, and the NEC allows 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit as long as there's more than one of them (and a duplex receptacle counts as two.) Most 120vac tools and appliances come with 15 amp plugs as well.

Steevo · Oct 31, 2011

I went through this same exercise 2 years ago, and gave up.
There are no USA made GFCI's anymore.

avionguy · Oct 31, 2011

Good news!

Hubbell Inc. makes 15 and 20Amp GFCI's in Newtown CT. I work for Hubbell and saw them being made just last week. http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/Press/PressReleaseDetail.aspx?ID=157
Products are sold strictly through wholesale distribution. Graybar Electric is a large distributor located in most major markets.

A_Pmech · Oct 31, 2011

Aceman said:
Our shop wires a lot of commercial shops/garages and I can't remember any of us having to go back for "nuisance trips."

Probably because, like everybody else, they just plug the reset button and get back to work.

There are articles all over the internet written on the subject of GFCI nuisance tripping from lightning strikes, inductive motor loads even if they aren't on the same circuit protected by the GFCI, high frequency drives, light ballasts, extension cords and even transformer tap switching on the power company primary. I've experienced many of those problems with the GFCI's I installed in my house, the houses of others, and shops where I have worked.

All that and they really have very little benefit to society.

According to Consumer Products Safety Commission memorandum, there were an average of 196 residential deaths per year due to electrocution between 1995 and 1999. In that same memorandum they essentially admit that the benefit to society is a wash if a GFCI receptacle lasts 30 years and a burden to society if they last less than about 30 years.

Similarly low death rates are reported by the CDC. In NIOSH publication 98-131, approximately 411 workers per year are killed by electrocution. The vast majority of those workers are killed by contact with primary voltage distribution lines and the majority of the workers killed by electrocution were electricians and linemen.

Meanwhile, about 35,000 people are killed every year in automobile crashes according to the NHTSA. Occupationally speaking, that makes driving to work about 85 times more dangerous than an electrocution hazard if you're a lineman or electrician and around 200 to 35,000 times more dangerous if you're not.

As far as I'm concerned, GFCI's are a public nuisance.

avionguy · Oct 31, 2011

UL requires GFCI's to trip when leakage is greater than 5 miliamps. Consider nuisance tripping can and does occur at times. Most of the time it is because the manufacturer has it tripping at lower levels. Consider that it may be doing it's job and protecting you. Less than the amount needed to power one XMAS tree bulb can kill you in the right circumstances and your heart health. Check the tool and or extension cords plugged into it. Every foot of cord uses up some of the miliamps before tripping.

avionguy · Oct 31, 2011

One more thing to consider. If I am standing on a ladder and get knocked off and killed that would not be death be an electrocution but I am still dead.

mtne · Oct 31, 2011

A-P........Interesting interpretation. Um wow.

Greatbear · Oct 31, 2011

Unless you can find NOS devices hidden away at some little podunk hardware store, I think you are out of luck, unfortunately. That which is not Chinese is likely to be made in Mexico. Otherwise, stick with a known good brand (Leviton, Hubbell, P&S) and just **** it up.

As for those people that complain about "nuisance tripping", when installed properly there should not be any problems, and the "nuisance" really amounts to not wanting to fix or replace the device/tool/appliance/whatever that is tripping the GFCI. AFCIs, though, can be a headache, especially with heavy draw stuff like vacuums. The later generation AFCIs are not as bad, though.

RaysnCayne · Nov 1, 2011

Though this last post by Greatbear is pretty discouraging, I'm gonna give it one more try today.

I found several pro shops in the area in searching for Hubbell distributors last night. I was gonna call a few and see if any would sell to me (a highly non-professional). We'll see...

A_Pmech · Nov 1, 2011

Rays,

Try calling Patrick Lewis, Sr. Territory Manager for Hubbell. 314-322-5212

I talked with him a couple weeks ago and he seemed very pro-American. Tell him the machinist he met in Kirby Risk week before last told you to call.

He should be able to get you part numbers for USA product.

mrb · Nov 1, 2011

Hubbell has GFCIs made in USA. The only reason they exist is to comply with buy american act for spending stimulus dollars. I am willing to bet they are VERY expensive ($40-$50 ea?) here's the product brochure http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/WLDG001.pdf

RaysnCayne · Nov 2, 2011

I couldn't find any of my local pro shops that stock this particular model. (BTW, the Hubble GFCIs they did stock all were made in China.)

So I poked around online and found them for $28/each.

Hate to say it, but I can't justify 3x the price of my Chinese Pass & Seymours for this. 1.5x or 2x, maybe. Well, they're out there guys. Just gotta be sure your wallet's fat enough to pony up for them.

bluesman2a · Nov 2, 2011

This is a timely thread. I **just** went through this, looking for a GFCI for the wife's bathroom. I settled on the Cooper Wiring from Lowes. Bought a 3 pack for $27 (couldn't wait for the USA, had to get it back in service). I passed on the Leviton's in favor of the Cooper.

Took the 3 pack home, hooked them up, little light on the face came on. Feed/line wires were hot. No juice in the load wires or plugs. Double-check. Reset. Install next one. Triple check installation (this AIN'T my first rodeo). Install THIRD one. Nada on ALL of them.

Go out to the shop and grab a spare Leviton GFCI unit off the shelf (wrong color, so wife won't keep it there). Install it in EXACTLY the same manner. Bam! It works as expected!!!

Moral of the story: the Leviton Chi-com **** is better than the Cooper Chi-com ****.

ishiboo · Nov 2, 2011

StumpjumperDave said:
Leviton 7899-HFW is made in USA...

Yeah, just like Craftsman is.

7899-HFW

UPC Code: 07847741059

Country of Origin: Mexico - *Eligible for ARRA funded projects > $7,443,000

Sunstealer73 · Nov 2, 2011

bluesman2a said:
This is a timely thread. I **just** went through this, looking for a GFCI for the wife's bathroom. I settled on the Cooper Wiring from Lowes. Bought a 3 pack for $27 (couldn't wait for the USA, had to get it back in service). I passed on the Leviton's in favor of the Cooper.

Took the 3 pack home, hooked them up, little light on the face came on. Feed/line wires were hot. No juice in the load wires or plugs. Double-check. Reset. Install next one. Triple check installation (this AIN'T my first rodeo). Install THIRD one. Nada on ALL of them.

I just installed several of the Coopers. They come pre-tripped for some reason. The light on them means they are tripped, it confused me at first too. Once I pushed the reset on them, the load terminals all started working.

bluesman2a · Nov 2, 2011

Sunstealer73 said:
I just installed several of the Coopers. They come pre-tripped for some reason. The light on them means they are tripped, it confused me at first too. Once I pushed the reset on them, the load terminals all started working.

Nope, these came pre-tripped, but I cycled them several times, both under power and not. That wasn't the issue with these. :wtf:

The nice lady at Lowes happily refunded my $27 though.

Greatbear · Nov 3, 2011

All current (no pun intended) GFCIs come "pre-tripped" and need to be reset once installed and powered up. The reason for this is that all new GFCIs perform a "site wiring test" when being reset, and it the tests fail, it will not reset/engage. If the neutral and hot are reversed, the line voltage wrong or missing, line/load swapped, or there is voltage in the ground terminal, the GFCI can't be reset. The "test" button applied the 5mA imbalance to trip the GFCI in the old days, but unlike earlier units where the reset button simply re-engaged the internal relay, the new style does all the tests while the device is being reset. Some people have found that new GFCIs don't work when replacing or retrofitting because there was some fault the original device would not register.

ragtop76 · Nov 3, 2011

Is it true that if I add a new circuit with 10 receptacles on it I only have to place a GFCI at the beginning of the run in order to protect all the other receptacles down stream?

BigJohn20 · Nov 3, 2011

ragtop76 said:
Is it true that if I add a new circuit with 10 receptacles on it I only have to place a GFCI at the beginning of the run in order to protect all the other receptacles down stream?

It'll depend on the manufacturer. I know for a fact Leviton specs their GFCIs to be able to protect as many receptacles on the load side as you can put on there.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=17233&minisite=10021#gfci

Q. How many receptacles can be installed and protected in a residential application on the load side of a SmartLockPRO® GFCI?
A. There is no limit as far as the number of receptacles that can be protected from the load side of the GFCI. Since our GFCI’s are rated for 20 Amp feed-through they are capable of protecting a whole residential 20 Amp circuit.

No 20A GFCIs made in USA?!?!

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