My new 30' x 32' shop - the build is underway

Thomarann · Oct 27, 2007

Hello all,

Long-time lurker here (I am usually on Rennlist) but I have been soaking up the info. as I plan for a new 32' x 30' detached garage. It will be a two story with an insulated/heated ground floor car workshop with an unheated second story for storage.

The original plan calls for 2 x 9' wide doors and a 8' 6" ceiling on the main floor but that will be changed to a single 16' door and 12' ceilings.

Below are the plans, outline, and my thoughts.

Thanks in advance and I'll post progress pictures once we get started.

Marc.

Garage Plans

Structural
12' ceiling on main floor
16' x 9' insulated door w/high rails & side-mount lift
5” 4000 psi (30 Mpa) 6% air entrained concrete floor (17.8 cubic yards) with 10" pads for 2-post lift
slope concrete floor to front door for drainage
garage door notch for weather-proofing
6 mil vapour barrier and foam insulation under floor with rebar
rough-in plumbing and drain
natural gas line from house for heat

Electrical
200 amp 220 volt service panel

30 amp 220 volt circuit in ceiling for lift
60 amp 220 volt circuit for welder
30 amp 220 volt switched outlet under stairs for compressor
20 amp 110 volt circuit for a/c
20 amp 110 volt outlets in ceiling for lift, drop lines, and air filter
15 amp 110 volt GFI outlets outside on each side of garage door
10 amp 110 volt outlet for exhaust fan
110 volt GFI outlets at standard height/48-52” height

located every 4’ around garage (approx 60 total)
wired duplex on 6 different 20 amp circuits
overhead high-output flouro lights (T5 bulbs, 6 per light)

2 rows of lights with 2 lights in each
2 above work bench

outside flood light with 3-way circuit to turn on at garage or house

Other Wiring
wired alarm system
telephone service
cable/satellite wired
Cat-5e network cables
wire speakers
cables for video surveillance
spare conduit to pull other future cables

SteveL · Oct 27, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Are you planning on closing in the stairs to make a compressor room? Would make it a lot quieter. Maybe a switched outlet or two up high on the the side or back wall for neon art.

Where is the water and drain going to go? I put hot and cold on two walls, one up against the house wall and also next to the large over head door for washing out side. If you run water lines, make sure they use 3/4" copper so you don't loose pressure. DAMHITH

Plan on running air lines behind the drywall if you are finishing the interior and use black pipe. Make sure you have enough drops and drains too. I mounted two hose reels to the ceiling with 25' hose and wish I had done 50'.

Put plywood on the walls behind the drywall where you plan on hanging stuff. No need for drywall anchors, just run a screw anywhere. Also add blocking in the ceiling for reels, etc. Oh, and take pics of where all this is before you hang drywall so you know where it is.

Floor drain? You may or may not be able to depending on your area. I ran mine to daylight at the rear of my property by tying in to the down spout pvc pipe. Code said that I could not do it, but a stack of plywood makes a good diversion when the inspectors come around. :thumbup:

If you are not heating the attic, make sure there is plenty of insulation in the ceiling and a way to close it off with a door at the top of the steps. Oh, and a trap door in the ceiling with a winch so you can store heavy stuff upstairs. I use mine every spring and fall for lawn care stuff. An attic fan of some sort will go a long way in the summer if you are not installing AC. Maybe a ceiling fan or two.

I'm sure I will be bake with more, but it looks like you have a good start. Take lots of pics along the way.

CRAZYASTRO · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Definitely do the airline plumbing, so u can connect your airtools whereever you need them without running a long hose across the garage??
That's sth I gotta do soon... :headscrat

rodnok1 · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

How are you heating it, many prefer in floor radiant heating.

FireZapper · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

I agree. Instead of a gas wall heater. Use a electric hot water heater for floor heat.

Might turn out to be cheaper in the long run.

Charles (in GA) · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

You are in Canada. Do you get snow? with the doors on the side, you will have snow sliding off the roof in front of the doors, rain too, even with gutters, could be an issue.

You will also need a tremendous beam above the doors on a side wall to support the trusses and second floor.

Make sure the trusses are designed for use as a second floor and rated to carry enough weight to be useful.

Doors, unless you have need to move very large stuff in and out, I'd stick with two doors instead of one wide one. You may not want the whole side open, especially in winter and I don't think the wide doors function as reliably as narrower doors.

Go with the largest 200 amp panel you can. You need all the breaker space you can get, and room to work. Get a large 40 space panel.

Charles

SDBOB · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

I used the sloped floor(approx 1" in 20') on a garage I had before,this seemed easy.As I have broken floor drains with a floor jack.You said a notch for the door in the concrete.From my exp.(my father and I were builders,him 50+ yrs me since I was 13,I don't have all the answers) we kept the door up to the floor height,then the notch/step went down approx 1" from there.His saying was that the water during winter would run down the face of the door and over the rubber sill and down into the notch and away from the door.If the door is in the notch it can/could freeze to the concrete.As others have said use black pipe.A friend used plastic and one of the fittings exploded.The pipe was rated BUT the fittings weren't.My father always had a saying'you are only going to do it once'.

kbs2244 · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

I am with Charles on switching the roof pitch. Not only for his reasons, but then you can put in a “hayloft” type door to get tings into the loft without having to carry them up the stairs. You will be surprised how often you use it. Because I had one, I would put stuff away indoors, dry and safe, when otherwise they would have been outside with a tarp thrown over it.

I lean toward two car doors. I like to work with the big doors open, often at night. Having two doors just gives me more flexibility in how much breeze and leaves I get, how much heat I am letting out, etc, etc.

I agree with plywood on the interior wall, but see no reason to drywall over it. The lower 4 feet can be solid plywood. I go with the top row the thick pegboard with the ¼ inc holes. I do not have that much experience with slat wall. If it will handle the kind of weight you plan to hang on it, go for it. That way you have a pretty good “bump proof” wall down low and the ability to hang stuff anywhere you want.

In floor heat is nice in your area, but I live in northern Illinois and haven’t seen much of a difference in comfort between it and the overhead radiant heaters around here. I would do a real good cost comparison.

If you do put the compressor under the stairs, that is where you want to both insulate and drywall, maybe 2 layers of dry wall, for sound control. Don’t forget the underside of the stairs. Stairs can really vibrate.

Will67 · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Anyone read the new Oct/Nov issue of Fine Home Building. They have a very good article about adding blocking to walls...if your walls are not being covered with sheetrock or another material then its not an issue. But what the article does show with numerous pictures (I am a visual learner) is where to add additional blocking

Stagger blocking between 2x4 and 2x6 so no need to toe nail;
additional blocking for tops and bottoms of wall cabinets;
Plywood backing for surface mounted fluorescent lighting;
Added blocking for towel bars, toilet paper holder, pedestal sink, pull-bars for ADA

and on and on

I personaly would not install compressed air lines within the wall. i would mount them on the surface of the drywall...much easier to fix a leak or modify/change layout in future.

rodnok1 · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Another thought here, why are you going 30' wide instead of 32' ?? The extra 2 feet width would allow two doors and more floor space, plus the trusses would be shorter.

PanelDeland · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Some good advice above.I would rather have 3 9' wide doors two on the end one on the side.Greater chance for ventilation and acess from another direction.Also on the wiring.I would add a couple of 220 outlets just in case you add a Plasma cutter or something down the line or want an outlet closer to the area you are welding in.One other thing is that you will use less energy if you cool with 220 volt instead of 110.

Thomarann · Oct 28, 2007

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Thanks to everyone who replied. :bowdown:

The design is a compromise with my wife to best match the look of our house which is why the roof slopes down to the the doors. The garage is the maximum size permitted by the local bylaws. I wanted 14' ceilings but my wife was worried it would look funny (and be taller than the house) so I went with 12'.

Yes, I am in Canada so expect snow but the car is put away every winter (sports car) so I do not need to be able to get it in and out during the snowy months - only to be able to get in through the man door. It is also only for one car so prefer to be able to open the big door in the summer for ventilation and light.

I am going to rough in for plumbing but not install it just yet as I am trying to keep this within my budget (about $50/square foot) so that is one area I can cut costs now but add later. I'll use 3/4" pipe though - I had read that here but forgot to add it. I am not sure where the drain will go to as our septic tank is about 1/2 an acre away.

I have in floor heat in my house main floor, basement, and attached triple garage and love it but, again, I am trying to stick within my budget.

I also have a scissor lift but may get a two post in the future so would worry about drilling down to mount the lift. I already have a propane Hot-Dawg from my previous shop so will convert it to natural gas and pipe it in from the house.

The underside of the stairs will be closed in which is why I planned to put the compressor there (cut the noise) but double wallboard is a good idea. Eventually the on-demand (tankless) water heater will go in there too.

I think I'll keep the airlines exposed as I had them in the walls in my last shop (a 29 x 27 x 9') and had problems so will stick with exposed lines.

Trap door with a winch to the attic is a great idea! Definately on the list!

Below is a picture of the garage door notch I want so it should drain well - my attached garage has a floor drain but all the concrete slopes towards it.....including the 6" strip that is outside the doors. Everytime it rains, water runs under the door and down the drain getting the floor all wet. (I got the picture off this site to show my builder - sorry but I forget who to give credit to).

The a/c will be 110 volt only because I already have it.

I will add on a couple of spare 220 volt circuits as well as a circuit for an attic fan and put in a mondo 40 breaker panel.

Thanks all - I appreciate all the feedback. :beer:

Marc

Thomarann · May 13, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Progress was a bit delayed by a wet spring as well a hold-up getting our development permit but we started work a few days ago.

So far we have a big hole, a footing, and a 4'6" Nudura ICF frost wall in place with concrete poured. It will now be left for a few days and then back filled. The slab will then be poured at the end of the week.

The only changes from what I posted earlier so far is that we cannot got greater than 12' from grade to eves (county rules) so we'll go with a 11' 6" ceiling height using 12' lumber.

I'll post more as things happen. Thanks to everyone for comments and suggestions so far -- this has been a long time coming so I really want to get it right!

Marc

RickP330 · May 14, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Marc Shaw said:
white plastic slot-wall to bottom 4’ of walls

[/I]

What is this? Looking good though, keep us posted!
RP

e-tek · May 15, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

wow - lots of great ideas so far!
I went with a 16' x 9' door at either end of my shop and it's been awesome - it allows me to drive right though (great for pulling/towing a car in!), pull cars in/out either end, open one or the other depending on breeze, sunlight, etc. Of course I have a driveway on either end going through the property.

I went with two 220V outlets, one in the ceiling and one in the wall. I thought a welder for sure, car lift maybe...but I have yet to need a welder that requires 220V. I have a 110 mig that welds up to 1/4" and an Oxy-Acetylene outfit for everything else. I did just buy a BendPak lift, so the roof 220 plug will be used at least! :thumbup:

Wall lights! I have two rows of flouresents on the ceiling and 4 along each wall, at 6 feet. They are on seperate switches but I always turn them all on to get as much light as possible.

WIndows - try to orient them so the sun shines into shop - it'll increase available light and warms the shop considerably!

Also, on storage - If you're going with shelves, I found that by suspending them from the ceiling (see pic above) with redi-rod - or some fashion - you can save floor space for other things.

I'll agree with Black Pipe, not hidden for air lines. That;s the way any pro-shop I've ever been in works, although I'm sure it's much prettier to hide them. Depends if your shop is for show or actually working on your cars!
Last thing, even if not a bathroom, a urinal would be great. It's a pain to have to run inside and you don't always want to pee outside (especially when it's 40 below in Canada!) :shocking:

I'm going to plumb a sink for wash ups and a urinal exiting through the wall to my good neighbors side! (kidding) :bounce:

Thomarann · May 20, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Back-filled and started framing.

Marc

wachuko · May 28, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Marc, a few suggestions I have picked up while doing the planning for mine:

Lights, place those off center from the bay as you want the light on the sides of the cars where if works better than if centered over the cars.

Lights installed vertically in the columns on the side of the garage doors. Two single florescent lights (4' or 8') on each side would provide additional light.

saumon · May 31, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Hi,

long-time lurker here too and i post for the first time:

You're not there yet, but for interior walls finish i know that almost everybody swear by drywall or OSB but, for my 17'x28' attached garage, i opt for galvanized sheet metal painted white (factory) and never regret it. A bit more costly but no mud or sanding, never need to be painted, no hole repairs, fireproof and washable. Especially friendly if you use to do a bit of welding/grinding...

Eh, another Canuck! But i'm from Quebec, so i doesn't know if that count...

MustHang · Jun 1, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

Hey was thinking about galvanized sheet metal too. Where did you get it ? I'm from Quebec too.

saumon · Jun 1, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

For a 17' x 28' garage with 11' walls, i was looking for standard galvanized sheet metal (like the type used on barn roof) and most of the places (harware stores) makes quotes around 1200$ for what i need vs around 600$ for drywall, tape and mud.

I then found a place specialized in sheet metal. They told me that for 0.10$ more per linear foot i can get it white, which reflect about twice the light than plain metal et they make a quote for all the indoor wall and the ceiling, including also all the j-channel and 1200 screws for 1100$, shipping included to my door! The pannels were 32" wide and cut to the exact lenght i need.

Do it once but do it right!

I'm from the Montreal area (South Shore). Let me know if you're interested, i can give you the details about the place where i bought.

Thomarann · Jun 14, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

A few more updates:

- walls are up with 2 of the 3 windows framed (4' x 3' casement windows ordered)
- an OSB roof is on and the roofers are due any day for asphalt tiles
- the 5" thick pads are in for the 2-post lift (5' x 5')
- crushed gravel and pex tubing/rebar is all in for the slab (the slab will be 5" thick and 10" thick at the pads)
- the 4800 psi concrete slab floor is supposed to be poured tomorrow

Marc

Thomarann · Jun 14, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

A few interior shots too.

Marc

Thomarann · Jun 14, 2008

Floor got poured today. 3 circuits for the in floor heat. I also had a front lip added as the OHD faces the prevailing weather/rain.

Marc

bmwpower · Jun 15, 2008

Hehe...that was a shot of my garage apron in the beginning. It definitely keeps the water out.

Looks good so far! You gonna moist cure the slab? Any layout drawings for interior?

Thomarann · Jun 15, 2008

Here are a few of my sketches for the electrical plans. I'll post a layout plan tomorrow (after I draw one).

Marc

Thomarann · Jun 15, 2008

bmwpower said:
Hehe...that was a shot of my garage apron in the beginning. It definitely keeps the water out.

Many thanks for the idea (and photo) then! My builder loved the idea too and plans to use it again.

Marc

Red'n'WhiteRebel · Jun 15, 2008

Great shop. You east or west?

Thomarann · Jun 15, 2008

Red'n'WhiteRebel said:
Great shop. You east or west?

West.

Marc

Thomarann · Jun 20, 2008

Wiring started today.

Marc

Thomarann · Jul 16, 2008

Wiring is done and insulation/vapor barrier is done. Drywall is next.

Lots of outlets and wires for power, speakers, T5 lights, security stuff, heat detector for fire, network, telephone, satellite TV, and blocking in the walls are all visible.

The gap in the insulation is for a 15" exhaust fan.

Marc

Thomarann · Sep 18, 2008

A few more update pictures:

-exhaust fan installed
-siding done
-wallboard on
-mudded & plastered
-painted
-most outlets done and speakers in the ceiling.

Waiting on front OHD (custom build), 6-bulb T5 lights (special order) as well as for the electrician to install the outside lights.

Next the plumber will hook up the water supply and setup the in floor heat.

Marc

Thomarann · Sep 18, 2008

More photos.

Marc

PERFORMANCE-RED · Sep 18, 2008

Very nice shop. What are you plans for the loft area? Just storage or a little escape man room?

Thomarann · Sep 20, 2008

PERFORMANCE-RED said:
Very nice shop. What are you plans for the loft area? Just storage or a little escape man room?

Thanks for the compliment! The upper loft area will be for unheated storage.

Update:

The SteelCraft (Thermocraft T-16 door with R16) door was installed the other day along with a LiftMaster 3800 jackshaft lift. I am pleased to say the notch in the front concrete floor lip fit perfectly.

The electrician also put in 5 of the 6 6-bulb T5HO lights (the 6th one is still on back-order) but they put 3 of them in the wrong spot so have to come back Monday to move them.

The plumber also mounted the on-demand natural gas boiler for the floor heat but it is not hooked up yet.

Marc

UN4GTBL · Sep 20, 2008

Lookin good!

locomike · Sep 21, 2008

Looks great. That looks like alot of outlets. Won't need no extension cords that's for sure. Why do you have the outlets high on the wall above the windows? I have them on the ceiling for ceiling mounted extension cord reels and such but seems wierd high on the center of the wall. Looks sweet. That is a size I am considering also.

Thomarann · Sep 22, 2008

locomike said:
Looks great. That looks like alot of outlets. Won't need no extension cords that's for sure. Why do you have the outlets high on the wall above the windows? I have them on the ceiling for ceiling mounted extension cord reels and such but seems wierd high on the center of the wall. Looks sweet. That is a size I am considering also.

The outlets above the windows are for battery powered emergency lights aimed at the exits.

The outlets above the doors are for battery powered emergency exit signs.

The other outlets high on the walls are switched for light-up signs, etc..

Marc

1960apache · Sep 25, 2008

Re: Planning a new 30 x 32 car shop...what am I missing?

e-tek said:
wow - lots of great ideas so far!
I went with a 16' x 9' door at either end of my shop and it's been awesome - it allows me to drive right though (great for pulling/towing a car in!), pull cars in/out either end, open one or the other depending on breeze, sunlight, etc. Of course I have a driveway on either end going through the property.

I went with two 220V outlets, one in the ceiling and one in the wall. I thought a welder for sure, car lift maybe...but I have yet to need a welder that requires 220V. I have a 110 mig that welds up to 1/4" and an Oxy-Acetylene outfit for everything else. I did just buy a BendPak lift, so the roof 220 plug will be used at least!

Wall lights! I have two rows of flouresents on the ceiling and 4 along each wall, at 6 feet. They are on seperate switches but I always turn them all on to get as much light as possible.

WIndows - try to orient them so the sun shines into shop - it'll increase available light and warms the shop considerably!

Also, on storage - If you're going with shelves, I found that by suspending them from the ceiling (see pic above) with redi-rod - or some fashion - you can save floor space for other things.

I'll agree with Black Pipe, not hidden for air lines. That;s the way any pro-shop I've ever been in works, although I'm sure it's much prettier to hide them. Depends if your shop is for show or actually working on your cars!
Last thing, even if not a bathroom, a urinal would be great. It's a pain to have to run inside and you don't always want to pee outside (especially when it's 40 below in Canada!) I'm going to plumb a sink for wash ups and a urinal exiting through the wall to my good neighbors side! (kidding)

Not to get off the subject, but is that an American Eskimo? I have an 8 year old, he loves hanging out in or near the garage, in the shade and breeze, while I tinker away on cars and motorcycles!! He is my workshop companion, and never complains that I am working in the garage too late and to come to bed like the wife!!!

autoist · Sep 26, 2008

Is that a Vega?

Red'n'WhiteRebel · Sep 26, 2008

How's the 3800 jackshaft door opener?? I have had those quoted for my shop and garage.

My new 30' x 32' shop - the build is underway

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