Chinese vs. USA Craftsman RP ratchets (PICS)

SMKS · Nov 26, 2011

I went to my local Sears to see if they had any of the new Chinese raised panel ratchets. They only had them in ¼” drive. All the other ratchets were still the USA made variety. They did not have any of the Taiwanese fully polished ratchets.

NOTE- In all pictures but one the Chinese ratchet is on the left.

Packaging
The packaging is almost identical on the USA made and imported ratchets. After the recent redesign of Craftsman tool packages, they moved the “made in the USA” marking to the back in small print and removed the “Made in the USA” badge from the front of the packaging. Note in the second pic that the ratchets have the same part number (44807), but the SKU is different.

Initial impressions
The Chinese ratchet is definitely chunkier. This is especially obvious at the head of the ratchet. If you didn’t have them side by side, you might think they were identical, because the shapes are very similar.

Mechanism
The mechanism appears to be identical, but the USA ratchet had far more lube. The parts are interchangeable. I swapped gears between the two ratchets and the Chinese pawl worked fine with the American gear and vice versa. One obvious difference is that the Chinese quick release is slightly different. When you push the button the retainer ball retracts, but a small shaft also pops out of the end of the gear to help push off the attachment. Both mechanisms seem to work about the same. The USA ratchet is slightly quieter, but I believe that is because it has a thicker lube than the Chinese ratchet. The Chinese ratchet has a metal selector switch. The selector on the USA ratchet is plastic.

NOTE - in this pic the USA gear is on the left. The gears have some cosmetic differences. The drive end of the Chinese gear is slightly longer. The profile of the gear teeth is also slightly different. The USA gear has the teeth flattened on the end.

Measurements

I always assumed Sears would keep a core of USA made, basic tools. I assumed the sockets, ratchets and RP wrenches would stay USA made. I guess I was wrong.

SMKS · Nov 26, 2011

More pics

kams1973 · Nov 26, 2011

Soon, the only usa made craftsman tool will be in their industrial line.

Fedwrench · Nov 26, 2011

Thanks for sharing. Great detailed pictures and measurements.
I find it interesting that they went waay back in the quick release design with the protrouding peg. :headscrat

I have more than enough US made craftsman to last me the rest of my life but, it is sad to see an American institution move to being made in China. Craftsman may not be the best tools in the world but, most kids and techs started out with them. Just think of all of the stuff built with them since world war two.
At least they had a great run while it lasted. :thumbup:

twincam00 · Nov 26, 2011

is the finish rougher on the china model? from the pics it looks like it is

Buckgnarly · Nov 26, 2011

Sad...wonder if it can ever go back?

billymade · Nov 26, 2011

Would love to to hear the back story on this; whether it was Sears revamped contracts, requiring lower costs that weren't possible in USA manufacturing or just Danaher making this change on their own. We may never know who specifically made or caused the off shoring change... it would have been great to hear the conversation/negotiation that caused this to take place. We may never know.

Ed_EOD · Nov 26, 2011

Well, kiss Craftsman goodbye. It's the end for them.

Buckgnarly · Nov 26, 2011

I was actually hoping some of the old SK Cman pro stuff would come back with the return of SK, but I guess not.

LawnDart79 · Nov 26, 2011

It's unfortunate that the Craftsman line is going down the ******* like it is. I got my start using Craftsman tools, and still have them today.

The real unfortunate thing is that most people still believe Craftsman stuff is all made in the USA. Just the other day, I talked to someone who thought his new compound miter saw was built in the USA because it's a Craftsman. Ummm...no.

I warn everyone I talk to who is planning to buy Craftsman tools to verify the country of origin before purchasing. To most of these people, where the tools are made is important to them. I know it's important to me.

85camaro · Nov 26, 2011

I went to Sears this evening and checked out some of the ratchets. Time was short so I didn't have a chance to look at all of them, but everything that I did see was made in the U.S.A. with the exception of the 3/8" drive black and polished steel. That one was made in Taiwan.

Ed_EOD · Nov 26, 2011

I hear that same misconception with Craftsman tools. It possibly is a major thing keeping them afloat. What's going to happen when it is widely known they are made in China?

american lockpicker · Nov 26, 2011

Ed_EOD said:
Well, kiss Craftsman goodbye. It's the end for them.

This.^^^

pipsters · Nov 26, 2011

billymade said:
Would love to to hear the back story on this; whether it was Sears revamped contracts, requiring lower costs that weren't possible in USA manufacturing or just Danaher making this change on their own. We may never know who specifically made or caused the off shoring change... it would have been great to the conversation that caused this to take place. We may never know.

Sears markets the product I highly doubt Danaher is changing the production without consent from Sears.

american lockpicker · Nov 26, 2011

LawnDart79 said:
It's unfortunate that the Craftsman line is going down the ******* like it is. I got my start using Craftsman tools, and still have them today.

The real unfortunate thing is that most people still believe Craftsman stuff is all made in the USA. Just the other day, I talked to someone who thought his new compound miter saw was built in the USA because it's a Craftsman. Ummm...no.

I warn everyone I talk to who is planning to buy Craftsman tools to verify the country of origin before purchasing. To most of these people, where the tools are made is important to them. I know it's important to me.

Craftsman has a few good imports from Canada, Israel, Switzerland, Australia, Germany, England and a few other places but more and more is chinese.

JSBriggs · Nov 26, 2011

Only time will tell. Remember the made in Japan Cman of the 80's? Also, just last year they came out with their high end 80+ tooth ratchet. Granted this recent move isn't confidence inspiring.

-Jeff

pipsters · Nov 26, 2011

Ed_EOD said:
I hear that same misconception with Craftsman tools. It possibly is a major thing keeping them afloat. What's going to happen when it is widely known they are made in China?

If they reduce their prices to similar to Northern and HF prices it actually might save them.

It's not a hard choice for the typical American consumer to chose between the $30 US ratchet or $8 Chinese one.

Have you ever been to a Sears in Canada? All import except the screwdrivers, and overall a very small selection of tools, mostly sockets, screwdrivers, and wrenches. Also completely deserted. Now go to a Canadian Tire. Chocked full of tools, aisles of them. Lots of people. That is what is in Sears future.

If Sears goes all import, can/will they reduce their prices to drive customers in? My guess is no.

Displaced Hokie · Nov 26, 2011

Well, sad news indeed. Now that the raised panels are affected...it has begun.

I had better buy that big Craftsman set soon I guess before the full changeover takes place.

greasemonkey44 · Nov 26, 2011

Honestly its just sad; the tools sections at most sears i go to are empty
northern and HF are stuffed
truth is sears is trying to keep up and they are gonna lose face; honestly its sad....how long til the whole line is import?
hope they are making these new imports durable if nothing else

Flash21 · Nov 26, 2011

Fedwrench said:
...Just think of all of the stuff built with them since world war two.
At least they had a great run while it lasted.

Indeed, what a thought that is...

My father's 60s era Cman tools are incredible tools. They were rugged, had a great finish and have been extremely durable. When I started, all I bought was Craftsman because of that very reason.

buffalobill · Nov 26, 2011

I hate to say it, but maybe with the money they save by making it in china, they can upgradde to a better design, and get past the raised panel tools. I mean, besides being foreign, some of their new stuff does look like a better design than the old standard RP stuff.

Would you rather have US temp worker, or minimum wage (lack of) quality, or newer design that while, it might not be providing manufacturing jobs, will still provide(probably better, higher paying) transportation and warehousing jobs, and maybe see something that is better than what they make now? I read on another forum about how they shut down their operation in Mass a few years ago, only to relocate to TX so it would save them money. What would make anyone think they wouldn't do it again?

WHT · Nov 26, 2011

LawnDart79 said:
It's unfortunate that the Craftsman line is going down the ******* like it is. I got my start using Craftsman tools, and still have them today.

A lot of us started with Craftsman when it was still American made and good quality. Most auto/cycle rags in the 70s ran tool buying stories and would tell readers that Craftsman was 3/4 the quality of Snap-on at half the price. I gave my son all of the good Craftsman tools that I started buying when I was a kid working on minibikes (all made in the 70s and 80s).

dragoocoda · Nov 27, 2011

Sears may not have had a choice if Danaher/Apex shipped ALL the tooling overseas. None of us know what kind of agreement/contract Sears may have with Apex It could be something that they may not be able to get out of for a while. Or it could be a cost savings measure. The two ratchets look very similar. It looks as if the tooling was shipped overseas.

ibedayank · Nov 27, 2011

problem is we on this board are a tiny minority in the big picture
most guys buy craftsman and MAYBE use it couple times a year
or they get tools as gifts Not going to care where the tools come from just the price

SMKS · Nov 27, 2011

a member of another forum claims to have some details on the changes at Sears. Here's what he wrote:

daves87rs said:
As someone who knows a few higher ups at sears, expect that all Craftsman products will be imported....with most being made in china.

This is happening for two reasons:

To save money and add profit...as these products will pick up more at Kmart, and offered to other retailers (like Meijer for example). Most of their major brands are stand alone now....

And...the quiet phaseout/phasedown of the Sears chain itself. Either it will get phased into Kmart, or Sears will just sell what it is best at-appliances, tools, and auto......

pipsters · Nov 27, 2011

stephen9666 said:
a member of another forum claims to have some details on the changes at Sears. Here's what he wrote:

I am actively going thru my Craftsman products and any imperfection (in manufacturing, not use) at this time I am swapping out for perfect condition product. Sockets and wrenches. Thanks for the heads up, we knew it was coming but I suppose better to know now than later.

ajchien · Nov 27, 2011

85camaro said:
I went to Sears this evening and checked out some of the ratchets. Time was short so I didn't have a chance to look at all of them, but everything that I did see was made in the U.S.A. with the exception of the 3/8" drive black and polished steel. That one was made in Taiwan.

That was the same for me at my local sears. The RP and thin profile were still all USA. However, I presume it's only because it's old stock. :sad:

RLRRLRLL · Nov 27, 2011

hmm..i've actually never owned a raised panel ratchet....ive used them before and they always slipped on me. Well, not all of them. Makes me kinda want to go buy one before they are all china...kinda..

pipsters · Nov 27, 2011

RLRRLRLL said:
hmm..i've actually never owned a raised panel ratchet....ive used them before and they always slipped on me. Well, not all of them. Makes me kinda want to go buy one before they are all china...kinda..

IMO they are hand tool history, which is why I can't bring myself to sell them. On eBay you can pick up all 3 for next to nothing right now. In the future? Best guess is the USA stuff will go for a big premium.

scott4 · Nov 27, 2011

pipsters said:
IMO they are hand tool history, which is why I can't bring myself to sell them. On eBay you can pick up all 3 for next to nothing right now. In the future? Best guess is the USA stuff will go for a big premium.

Anyone wanting to get that 299/311 socket set should act sooner than later I guess.

iroc409 · Nov 27, 2011

dragoocoda said:
Sears may not have had a choice if Danaher/Apex shipped ALL the tooling overseas. None of us know what kind of agreement/contract Sears may have with Apex It could be something that they may not be able to get out of for a while. Or it could be a cost savings measure. The two ratchets look very similar. It looks as if the tooling was shipped overseas.

I think this is highly possible... if the manufacturer up and said they're no longer producing in the US, what choice would they have?

Ed_EOD · Nov 27, 2011

Another manufacturer?

The cheap Chinese hand tool market is flooded. They are going to have a hard time competing there. Now why would you buy Craftsman over Harbor Freight, Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Duralast, and the many other decent quality chinese made brands.

I bet this move makes SK and Wright pretty happy!

ajchien · Nov 27, 2011

iroc409 said:
I think this is highly possible... if the manufacturer up and said they're no longer producing in the US, what choice would they have?

Possible reason kobalt and apex/danaher separated? Just guessing.

TireTracks · Nov 27, 2011

Ed_EOD said:
Another manufacturer?

The cheap Chinese hand tool market is flooded. They are going to have a hard time competing there. Now why would you buy Craftsman over Harbor Freight, Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Duralast, and the many other decent quality chinese made brand

iroc409 · Nov 27, 2011

Ed_EOD said:
Another manufacturer?

The cheap Chinese hand tool market is flooded. They are going to have a hard time competing there. Now why would you buy Craftsman over Harbor Freight, Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Duralast, and the many other decent quality chinese made brands.

I bet this move makes SK and Wright pretty happy!

Just like everything else, from blenders to automobiles... they are living on the reputation built on quality. Everything is that way these days.

I bought a Iogear KVM for my computers at home. The dog chewed it up, so I replaced it with the same thing. The new one is noticeably lighter and the cables aren't really as thick.

So far, it is functionally and reliably equivalent, but I can't help but notice cheaper construction.

ishiboo · Nov 27, 2011

Ed_EOD said:
Another manufacturer?

The cheap Chinese hand tool market is flooded. They are going to have a hard time competing there. Now why would you buy Craftsman over Harbor Freight, Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Duralast, and the many other decent quality chinese made brands.

I bet this move makes SK and Wright pretty happy!

Kobalt sockets/ratchets/etc. are Taiwan. The generic tools like pliers/etc. are China and you can tell. IMO there's a big quality difference between your typical Taiwan tool and your typical Chinese tool.

Competing there is not their intent, it costs almost nothing to have the tools made... they're made in the same plant probably 30-40 other "brands" tools are made in. Sears realizes that the tools aspect is not a sustainable business model for the long-term, and it's on the way out.

VERY sad.

ishiboo · Nov 27, 2011

ajchien said:
Possible reason kobalt and apex/danaher separated? Just guessing.

As someone else said, the contract Sears have would have required the country of origin to be USA... otherwise the manufacturer would have instantly moved them overseas and increased their margins for the same pricing, right?

It's most definitely a conscious and planned decision.

kythri · Nov 27, 2011

ishiboo said:
It's most definitely a conscious and planned decision.

It most definitely is, and looking back, one can tell it's been in process for a while.

The catalogs removed the prominent "MADE IN USA" statements.

"MADE IN USA" was prominent on the face of packages.

Country of origin was quietly removed from the website.

"MADE IN USA" statements on the front of packaging was reduced in size during a packaging redesign.

"MADE IN USA" statements were removed front of packaging, relegated to fine print on back of packaging, during a packaging redesign.

Now, the packaging is virtually identical, save for the change of "USA" to "Taiwan" or "China" now that everyone is desensitized to the frequent redesigns.

Quite honestly, at this point, I'm quite surprised they didn't do what other companies did, and removed the "USA" from the tool itself earlier.

kc-steve · Nov 27, 2011

Ed_EOD said:
. . . The cheap Chinese hand tool market is flooded. They are going to have a hard time competing there. Now why would you buy Craftsman over Harbor Freight, Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Duralast, and the many other decent quality chinese made brands.

I bet this move makes SK and Wright pretty happy!

EXACTLY! The management of Sears/Craftsman are morons and haven't realized they can't win that battle. (Not to mention the politics in DC is going to change things soon) Even Taiwan-made is better quality than Chinese-made. They should revise their business model, improve quality and compete against American-made tool makers as long as their basis of competition is pricing.

You can bet I'll be stocking up on USA-made Craftsman in the future.

Steve

mooseracing · Nov 27, 2011

ishiboo said:
VERY sad.

Yes very sad that we continue to demand higher wages, tougher restrictions on safety and emissions but no one seems to want to pay the higher price for the manufacturing costs.

We are all doing this to ourselves.

Chinese vs. USA Craftsman RP ratchets (PICS)

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