Is it just me or has this "ultimate shop" thing gone too far?

Jack Burton · Jan 14, 2012

I see photos of home shops on here which leave me breathless (and jealous). They're absolutely beautiful. Outlets every three feet, sinks, urinals, track lighting, televisions, refrigerators, even computers. Everything except an inflatable mattress. I can't help but think these guys are programmers or in business.

What I don't see are clumps of sawdust or metal shavings at the bench legs. I don't see any greasy rags laying around. I don't see any exhaust hose outlets through the garage doors. I rarely see any bench grinders and I routinely see vises bolted in useless positions. I see people who want maple butcher blocks for automotive work and people who want steel plate to change their brake pads.

Is this a response to the emasculation of males in this country? Men need to escape? Disgusting Oprah giving their wives ideas? What is it?

The work builds the shop, not the other way.

DISCLAIMER: I fully expect extreme opinions

Jamesbbh · Jan 14, 2012

Agreed fully, my shop is always a wreck. Unless it happens to be the one time a year I get into a "organize everything" kick. It seems like a lot of people make the shop the only "project" and lose sight of actually making it useful VS. making it pretty.

mebedave · Jan 14, 2012

I think these shops are a cross between mancave and work shop. The more its on the mancave side means come over hangout tell stories drink beer... but no work. My shop is going to have a little of that but for the most part its a work shop to fix,build,and invent and get away from it all.

koditten · Jan 14, 2012

Jamesbbh said:
Agreed fully, my shop is always a wreck. Unless it happens to be the one time a year I get into a "organize everything" kick. It seems like a lot of people make the shop the only "project" and lose sight of actually making it useful VS. making it pretty.

I couldn't agree more. All I can think of is the hours, days, weeks or years it took to make some of these shops beatuful. Don't get me wrong, these shops are nice, but I would have little use for them. I would never start a project for risk of messing up the shop.

This reason alone, is why I never go into the section that shows the garages. More often than not, they just don't apply to what I do in my shop.

KO

Daniel Dudley · Jan 14, 2012

There are people who have a lot more money than I do, and they have different priorities than I do. And that is OK, because I work for some of them. If you make a lot of money, spending it can be fun.

Gregishome · Jan 14, 2012

If for the most part it stays pretty and dustless, greaseless, there is not a whole lot of work being done in them. I wouldnt dare do a project in a garage that looks like a hospital lab.

036.6turbo · Jan 14, 2012

I agree. Some of the "garages", are over the top.

At my house we have (2) garages, (1) is an attached garage. That is where my wife parks her daily drivers. Z28 (summer car) Yukon XL (winter car). That space has a VCT floor, and slat wall, etc.

The garage in the back is what I call my "shop". I am in the process of a remodel on that one. Tore the back room off, rebuilt it. All new vinyl siding, new entry door with screen, new windows etc.etc.

But my shop is a working shop: cars, trucks, motorcyles, snowmoblies. Everything from replacing engines & transmissions, to bodywork and paint. Lots of welding (mig, arc, oxy acetylene) and cutting, grinding.

Some of the pictures I see on here, I would not set a motor down on the floor, or paint a car for fear of damaging the fancy paint job on the kegerator!

I saw a lengthy thread here recently about the safety of having ox/acetylene torches in the shop!!! I tried to think of a time in my life, when I couldn't go out to some garage, and get something REALLY hot!!! My dad had a set, my grandpa, the set I currently have are hand me downs!

And I have had (1) shop burn down, and watched a set of tanks blow up! (We found the acetylene cylinder (1) block away.)

But hey, to each his own, right? If they can afford to have those types of spaces, good for them. It just would not work for me.

Jack Olsons shop, is what I would call a nice blend of the two. A very nicely done, working space. I am sure there are others on here also, his just comes to mind.

My comments should not be taken as a negative slam on this web site. I love the site, and have gotton a lot of great ideas, and motovation from it.

If we were all the same, the world would be a very boring place.

bczygan · Jan 14, 2012

The "perfect" garages with everything put away out of sight in cabinets and toolboxes look great, but are not ready for use. Tools need to be pulled out and set up first. And to look good after a job, they all need to be put away again.
A working garage has work centers with tools and accessory items set up ready to use and everything close at hand. It will look visually "busy" or messy compared to the clean sleek garage that has everything put away. This is especially true in photographs, which magnify clutter.
I love looking at the fancy spaces, lit to show off their clean architectural lines. But my garage will be set up as a work space with work stations centered on tools and their accessories.
I was just in a guys basement wood shop. Every surface including the joists overhead was used for tool organization and placement. To the untrained eye it was cluttered.

Gary S · Jan 14, 2012

Jack Burton said:
Is this a response to the emasculation of males in this country? Men need to escape? Disgusting Oprah giving their wives ideas? What is it?

The work builds the shop, not the other way.

DISCLAIMER: I fully expect extreme opinions

I think you figured it out just right. There are people who build a garage to work, and there are people who build a garage to show off. In the US today, only a very small percentage of the people have any idea of how to "do for themselves". Most people can use a cell phone to call for someone to do for them, and surf Ebay, but have no idea what to do after that.

Brentocool · Jan 14, 2012

I agree My garage is to pretty!! I have already said that. But I have also found out I can do anything I want in there still but just clean up after myself. Also it keeps me more organized which is a good thing. And really I use mine more for a lounge and storing my toys then I do working. I get enough of that at work.(Auto Tech) Besides garages were put on homes to store cars Right? And just because your shop looks modern dosnt mean its not productive.

looks like a Hospital to me?

danski0224 · Jan 14, 2012

bczygan said:
To the untrained eye it was cluttered.

That's the same excuse I use....

:beer:

djjsr · Jan 14, 2012

Criticizing a guy's garage is like criticizing his wife. They may not all be beautiful, but it's his and that's where he goes for relaxation, recreation and a place to put his stuff.

VairKing · Jan 14, 2012

I have had really really messy unorganized working shops. When trying to do even a simple car repair, it takes 4 times as long as it should, because I can't find that 9/16" socket. Ive looked everywhere.

So when it came time to build a new shop, I used this site as a guide, and organized the snot out of everything. Everything has a permanent place. The place looks great. Walls are painted, doors are trimmed out, cabinets have doors on them etc. Now it is something that I am proud of, and when I work on my cars (and I do, a lot) when finishing a project or even just the workday, I actually want to put the tools back where they go, give the floor a quick sweep, and clean off the workbenches. Then the next time I go to do something everything is where its supposed to be. With a dirty unorganized trashed shop I never had the willpower to keep things put away as I work.

trainer · Jan 14, 2012

For some people the Garage is a place to work on thier hobbies. For some, the garage IS the hobby.

Brentocool · Jan 14, 2012

djjsr said:
Criticizing a guy's garage is like criticizing his wife. They may not all be beautiful, but it's his and that's where he goes for relaxation, recreation and a place to put his stuff.

You tell'm Donny :thumbup:

Brentocool · Jan 14, 2012

Gary S said:
I think you figured it out just right. There are people who build a garage to work, and there are people who build a garage to show off. In the US today, only a very small percentage of the people have any idea of how to "do for themselves". Most people can use a cell phone to call for someone to do for them, and surf Ebay, but have no idea what to do after that.

Show off

Yup guys tend to do that if they have talent :thumbup:

And I will be the first to tell them if they do :bowdown:

And I think most of the guys on this Forum have talent. I have seen lots of trick **** on here including Cool garages with bars and TVs etc. I have a Tv in mine and the guys come over and we watch it , drink beer,Smoke. What ever. I think you guys have lost sight of this forum. There are different categories ya know :headscrat

39portlander · Jan 14, 2012

This is a great thread Jack, and a website I just logged onto this week. Wish I had done it a few years ago, when I was on the Fordbarn. This has got great discussion forums and mostly good threads. Most of these threads could be answered if the guy's would just read the instruction manuals that came with there appliance, but were guy's, we don't do that :thumbup:

I like to call my garage a training camp for the kid's. There are at least 5 kids on my street who know what a Flathead V8 Ford is, and getting my nephews away from that damn idiot box and over here to learn a little automotive skills is a work in progress. There starting to see the light :bounce:

Jack Burton · Jan 14, 2012

I certainly don't condone sloppiness in a shop. You clean up your **** and sweep. That includes engineers, machinists, woodworkers, mechanics, the lot of them.

Gary S said:
I think you figured it out just right. There are people who build a garage to work, and there are people who build a garage to show off. In the US today, only a very small percentage of the people have any idea of how to "do for themselves". Most people can use a cell phone to call for someone to do for them, and surf Ebay, but have no idea what to do after that.

I think he explained my point in another solidified way.

turbo6justin · Jan 14, 2012

I agree completely, this site is great for ideas and help on the various stages of building a garage but too much is too much. My garage is a working garage is a 2.5 car working garage. On any given day it is covered with sawdust, grease, or car parts. But I because of this site I have an epoxy floor, soffit shelves, finished walls, and most importantly heat. It cleans up very fast and is ready for the next job. Some parts were expensive but I kept a tally and it has paid for itself already. My folks and siblings, relatives drive cars that generally have high miles and need a fair amount of work. It doesn't take too many jobs where they have been given a labor estimate of $500-1000 to justify a garage you can work in all year long. If I do the work it is free to them and then in turn they help me fund other projects. Just an example my sisters most recent job. Shop does the work $300 in parts 750 in labor, I do the work $150 in parts and $200 to me if they can or feel generous and I get some tile for a bathroom. Everybody is very happy. That is how I justified it.

With that said my garage is very dirty at times but it cleans up very quick. The advantage of shelving, and closed storage is things stay cleaner. But I love the efficiency of it all. If I need to saw cut something, it is about a 3 minute job to set up and cut, then I can weld something in about the same amount of time and in another 3 minutes the garage looks like I was never there.

I'll use one more example of Jack's garage (sorry Jack) which is probably the most popularized on here. For me it would be useless. I don't know how you can work on a car without being able to have both doors fully open, not to mention the length. And with perminent mounted benches in the way it just wouldn't work. 70% of what I work on would stick out the door so far it wouldn't work. I have to be able to close the garage door, for heat reasons and because many projects are 2 day projects. Need to rip an 8 foot board, probably pretty tight in that garage so the door is open again. It is nice looking but very job specific and location specific for him. I actually preferred where he started with it as a $3,4,5000? working garage. I think it is a little past that point now.

Clean and efficient makes for much faster projects and that is the great value of this site. Take the tips from the overly clean, show garages apply them to a working garage and you end up with a very happy medium.

49tandc · Jan 14, 2012

Shop - where work (usuall dirty) gets done, things get built
Garage - where stuff (not OMLY automotive) is stored
Showroom - no explanation necessary
Shed - storge for things you don't use often, or long-term storage

49T&C

Brentocool · Jan 14, 2012

Jack Burton said:
I certainly don't condone sloppiness in a shop. You clean up your **** and sweep. That includes engineers, machinists, woodworkers, mechanics, the lot of them.

I think he explained my point in another solidified way.

Maybe the guy isnt as talented as you are? But he's trying. Ok his vise is in the wrong spot? He'l figure that out later when he go's to use it . I like my vise on the right side of my bench. how about you? The key is the guy is trying. And I'm a teacher by nature. I love to teach people what I know. And theres allot of young guys on here that need and want your help. Thats why there on here.

Jack Burton · Jan 14, 2012

39portlander said:
I like to call my garage a training camp for the kid's. There are at least 5 kids on my street who know what a Flathead V8 Ford is, and getting my nephews away from that damn idiot box and over here to learn a little automotive skills is a work in progress. There starting to see the light

I don't know what that entails, Strombergs?...Ford ****? joking
In my eyes, teach kids the ins and outs of mechanical systems, how to shoot a rifle and pistol, and how to garden.

rwreuter · Jan 14, 2012

you know Jack, i somewhat echo your sentiments and i have often wondered what some of these people do for a living.....

but, i still like looking at them and enjoy seeing new and interesting ideas.

though, i am not rich by any means (my income alone is 70K (living in rural kansas)) i would think that some think i am wealthy by seeing pictures of my house and garage.

someone is always going to think "you" are rich and "we" are going to think that we are poor.....LOL

NHBandit · Jan 14, 2012

Here's mine. I hope nobody thinks I'm showing off... :lol:

Actually we just moved to East Tennessee from New Hampshire and the carport is all I have at the moment. Had to leave alot of garage equipment & tools behind at my old place until we can sell it. Then the plan is to build a 30x40 or so old school style gas station/workshop behind the carport. The front of the current carport will get 2 garage doors and be used mainly for bike storage, maybe the Camaro, lawnmower, etc. Anybody wanna buy a 200+ year old farmhouse in NH with a 3 bay carriage house & barn ?

NUTTSGT · Jan 14, 2012

I have always wanted to have a nice garage but one that is functionable. I had a decent garage before I started a refurb but it needed some work to make it nicer.

There's nothing wrong with making a shop organized and keeping it clean. I'm an organized person and I try to follow the old saying, "a place for everything and everything in it's place." Last weekend, I had the daughter's Explorer in it swapping out fuel pumps, it's clean now.

I think for some guys the garage has become an extention of the family room and more of a man cave. If that's their deal, that's fine and I'll still check out the pics. Now if your garage is something like those "ultimate garages" that surface every few months, that's a status symbol for 99% of them. Nothing more than a place to park your ***** extender.

adam728 · Jan 14, 2012

VairKing said:
I have had really really messy unorganized working shops. When trying to do even a simple car repair, it takes 4 times as long as it should, because I can't find that 9/16" socket. Ive looked everywhere.

Yup, I worked at a powersports dealer with community tools. Holy ****. Nothing was ever put away, you could never find anything, and we had 5 of everything. At best sockets made it into a bucket on the bench, so then you were left sifting thru hundreds to find what you needed.

Anyway, my shop is far from "hospital", but everything has it's place, and it takes nothing to put it there. I tore my motorcycle to the frame last spring and redid everything on it. Every morning I'd get up, spend about 45 minutes to an hour on the bike, clean up and head to work. I would litterally spend maybe 2-3 minutes putting away tools and parts, and probably less than 1 minute getting them out the next day. Really no time at all, and everything was in it's place.

I always laugh at the argument that clean shops must never have any work done in them. You think F1 cars and trophy trucks are build in grease covered saw dust pits with tools scattered wall-to-wall? Not saying any of us are building things at that level, but why can't you keep a clean shop after doing a brake job on your wifes car, or making a bookcase, or changing out a fuel pump?

d0nk3y · Jan 14, 2012

Well, I solved the outlet problem I had by bolting a 4-outlet box on the end of an extension cord to a hard hat and strap that to my head when I'm out there. Works awesome!

NUTTSGT · Jan 14, 2012

d0nk3y said:
Well, I solved the outlet problem I had by bolting a 4-outlet box on the end of an extension cord to a hard hat and strap that to my head when I'm out there. Works awesome!

picsorban

2fat2fly · Jan 14, 2012

Gary S said:
I think you figured it out just right. There are people who build a garage to work, and there are people who build a garage to show off. In the US today, only a very small percentage of the people have any idea of how to "do for themselves". Most people can use a cell phone to call for someone to do for them, and surf Ebay, but have no idea what to do after that.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. My garage (until this past summer) has always been a wreck to the untrained eye. I ,however, knew where everything was and could find it without much hassle.
I got tired of my garage not being organized enough to park my Car and my motorcycles in there together. That's why I started my garage overhaul. It then snowballed a little (because of the ideas I found on this forum) into what I have now.

Even Steven · Jan 14, 2012

A garage isn't always a shop. Some people just want a place to keep their cars. And some of those guys want that place to look pretty.

And some garages also serve as a shop. Some of those shops are for light work, like brake jobs, oil & filter changes, etc... Some of those shops are for heavier work and/or fabrication.

I don't have anything but basic hand tools and electric tools in my own garage (no lift, no compressor), yet I still use it as both a garage and a shop. I like to keep it neat and organized, but it's not nearly as pretty as some of the places I've seen on this forum.

Fastback · Jan 14, 2012

I have two sides to my shop, the original garage is the side with bench grinder, lathe/mill and parts washer.

The "prety" side has the lift and two welders, a cabinet for paint supplies and a stainless top mixing table. It turns out that a simple black drawer cart from harbor freight can hold enough tools to rebuild a car in its entirety, so I have no need for tool boxes on that side. Once the nicer side gets done with the current body project it will get cleaned up and look like a showroom again. A nice garage environment is capable of being a working shop, I currently vacuum three times a day to manage sanding dust.

Dirty tags, piles of debri and general mess show apathy and have no place in a working shop, do you see that in a dealership garage?

bad_idea · Jan 14, 2012

I look at the 'garage' like I look at the 'toy car'. Depending on how much money you have is how nice it will be. As a teen I owned a 25 year old Camaro that was falling apart and I kept it in a storage unit with my tools. I accomplished a fair amount of work on the car in that 'garage' but it wasn't as fun or easy as it could have been if I had a nicer shop.

Now as a young adult I have a 10 year old Camaro in excellent shape that I keep in the attached garage on my home. I honestly spend more time 'modifying' my garage than I do the Camaro because it is much cheaper. My garage is also the go to for a lot of my neighbors for 'Hey can you.....' It is by no means a showpiece garage, but it is no **** hole either.

One day if the stars align then I will have a fully capable 30x50 shop w/ a nice Corvette parked in it. It will be well layed out and functional. Organized and clean-ish. It is much easier to work in a clean shop.

But I won't have a fancy painted kegerator or full bar. Those I leave to the men who are looking for a hangout. Nothing wrong with that if it's your thing, it just isn't mine. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go paint the chair Jack Olsen made me lust after.

dwljpl · Jan 14, 2012

So if your shop or garage isn't a sloppy mess, it's over the top. Got it. I guess those of us who don't have lathes and milling machines and lifts in our garages can look at those that do and think, man.... Look at these guys... They change their oil once every two months and they might build a bracket every once in a while.... What douches.... Buying all those tools they hardly ever use.....

Disappointing. This is exactly what I didn't expect to see on this forum. My space, my style, my choices. Don't like it, stay in your own damn shop. *shaking head*

NJHandyGuy · Jan 14, 2012

i gotta be honest to each their own i've seen shw place garages that work all the way to show rooms and work centers honestly i fall in all 3 catagories at different tims of the day

i have nice cabinets does that make it a space and a epoxy floor i bet if i sweep it i'll find aluminum sparks/shavings i rip thengs apart on it it's clean and neat and takes a 1/2 hour a day to put back together i fail to see this as a problem

Jack Burton · Jan 14, 2012

2fat2fly said:
I agree with this wholeheartedly. My garage (until this past summer) has always been a wreck to the untrained eye. I ,however, knew where everything was and could find it without much hassle.
I've been an aircraft mechanic for over 20 years and now a Structures Lead Technician for the last 2 years. The first thing I do when I get to work at the start of the day is check the sheetmetal shop and all our work areas to make sure everything is clean and safe for my guys to work in. The last hour of the week is spent by everyone in my department cleaning everything we've used for the week.

"I've been an aircraft mechanic for over 20 years and now a Structures Lead Technician for the last 2 years." So you're into remodeling bad kitchens now?

Al Bundy · Jan 14, 2012

I'll throw my 2c in here. First of all, my new detached garage is a part of my home. So I spent some extra money on higher quality building materials. I wanted it to look nice, and I wanted low maintenance as well. To me the functionality is most important, but that doesn't mean it can't look decent. Inside is far more utilitarian, but I did add a few small touches to dress it up. A simple wall stripe and painted trim makes the space look a lot better without being over the top. After all there's no harm in dressing up the space a bit if you're going to spend time there. The cabinets, when they're done, will also have a couple small touches to dress them up. Yes they are going to be custom built, but that's because I couldn't get what I wanted anywhere. The low end stuff is just too cheaply built and the high end cabinets are outrageous. It helps to have a buddy that's a cabinet maker and takes partial payment in beer. :beer:

I'm not a neat freak by any stretch of the imagination, but my tools have to be clean and organized. Leaving a few things out doesn't bother me, but if I have to spend time looking for tools it frustrates me to the point where I can't get anything done. The only entertainment required is a radio, if I want to watch TV, I'll do it from the comfort of my recliner in the living room. Everyone is always welcome in the garage as long as they aren't my wife looking for a place to keep her stuff. If you want to drink beer, for the time being it needs to be in a cooler full of ice. I know that seem barbaric, but that's the way it is for now. If you want to see pictures of my garage here you go- It's best viewed as a slideshow.

http://s940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/Al_Bundy_cny/Garage/

sberry · Jan 14, 2012

If someone wants to build a palace thats great, mine is a working place and is worth 20X what my house is,, I am not fancy but do pick up and try to find places for the stuff. I am still working on sockets and wrenches,, ha, I provide all the tools.

NHBandit · Jan 14, 2012

I'm new here and can't afford alot of the huge garages I see posted but I still enjoy looking and I get some great ideas for things I'd like to do when I build mine. I worked out of the same 3 bay "carriage house" at my old place in NH for around 30 years. Ceilings not high enough to even consider a lift, no heat, too short to get anything bigger than my Camaro inside & still be able to walk around it. Now I'm in TN and planning to build a new garage the way I want it. The budget dosn't allow me to go too crazy but the beauty of starting with a clean slate is that I can have some of the things I always wanted f I plan accordingly. A lift for one since I'm too damn old to lay on the ground working on my stuff. An office area that will be my "man cave" where I can display my stuff I've collected over the years. Nothing too fancy but made to suit my tastes. Looking at what you all have done, big & small, helps me get ideas for mine.

brownbagg · Jan 14, 2012

i think the problem is, this place is garage journal, that dyrwall, paint stripes on wall, refrigeration and flat screens. They need to start a shop journal, with welding machines, chain hoist grease grit and sledge hammers. gojo instead of aloe.
with all the pretty garages here that are useless it makes a shop, shopworker just plain unwelcome

ket-tek · Jan 14, 2012

It sounds like your trying to say the operating room clean garages are built out by guys that don't work or cars, or know who to build stuff??

So some of the cleanest most organized garage builds here like bmwpower, boost addiction, jack olsen, and quite a few others here are posers that can't do any real work in there? Yet I've seen pics of them tearing into stuff doing plenty of dirty work in there, but they clean up after themselves when the task is done?

So if one trys to keep a perfect looking garage, they are somehow less of a working man, or their car knowledge is somehow lacking?

I can see if one works on different people cars everyday in there like an auto shop, then it may stay a bit more dirty.. But a garage that a guy does home projects from, maintains his family's household cars, and building a long term project car it can be fairly easy to keep a great garage, as you just clean up after you make a mess.

You mention there is not piles of sawdust and metal shavings all over the place? Should there be? This is how you gauge manhood or knowledge?

Keep in mind alot of these garages are attached to the houses, and some of these may be $5, 6, 7, 800k homes these days, so why wouldn't one build out the garage to match the finish level of the home itself? Or if one has an expensive home does that also lessen his potential for mechanical ability?

I DO see what you mean, and WHY you ask what you ask. But just because most garages and mechanics appear to be slobs and hoarders with minimal organization does not mean a guy with a spotless garage and a specific place for every tool does any less work than the 'other guy'.

Is it just me or has this "ultimate shop" thing gone too far?

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