Wera and Taiwan?

vintagefan · Mar 25, 2012

Let me start by saying, I'm a huge USA and Euro tool nut, but I don't have any problem with buying Taiwan tools. Nearly every one I've purchased has been at least acceptable, if not excellent quality.

That said, I read some posts recently that suggested that the entire Wera Zyklop lineup was made in Taiwan.

I tried some a while back and they were nice, but I didn't like the fact that the ratchet wasn't a true roto ratchet, nor did I like the loose fit of the sockets and extensions. I've seriously had wobble extensions that felt tighter than the fit of the 1/4" drive Wera stuff.

Anyways, I was thinking about trying them again, but I have a serious problem paying that kind of a premium price, for a Taiwan made tool. If I wanted high quality Taiwan tools, I could go for Genius or Toptul or similar.

When I was under the impression that they were made in the Czech republic, I didn't have as much of a problem with the price, as I view their manufacturing as pretty much on par with the rest of Europe (not that I don't feel the same about much of Taiwan's manufacturing).

Is this just for this particular line, or is Wera moving more stuff to Taiwan?

Doesn't the whole "made in Germany" allure kind of take a giant dump when half the stuff is made in Taiwan. I mean, they were still able to kind of pull it off with Czech made stuff, as it's still Euro, but Taiwan pretty much kills the whole "german quality" thing.

The head of my Wera Bit Ratchet looks identical to some Taiwan stuff I've seen, and now I'm wondering if I've been swindled into thinking it's a Euro made tool. I mean, I went with it, even though it's a bit too tiny for my hands, thinking it was the only one on the market that was made in Europe, but now it appears I may have been mistaken.

I don't know. I'm kind of conflicted here. I'm still a big fan of Wera stuff, but all of a sudden, it seems to me they're becoming yet another rebadged asian made tool with "designed in ______" **** all over the packaging.

kippieland · Mar 26, 2012

I thought they were made in the Cech republic or something. I know not in Germany for sure. Monte will know the answer!

darkzero · Mar 26, 2012

vintagefan said:
The head of my Wera Bit Ratchet looks identical to some Taiwan stuff I've seen, and now I'm wondering if I've been swindled into thinking it's a Euro made tool. I mean, I went with it, even though it's a bit too tiny for my hands, thinking it was the only one on the market that was made in Europe, but now it appears I may have been mistaken.

I purchased the Wera Bit Ratchet knowing that it was made in Taiwan. It even says made in Taiwan on the package. I needed a bit ratchet & this one caught my eye. I have no regrets & I love the little guy. The other Wera ratchets don't appeal to me, even if the prices were reasonable.

vintagefan · Mar 26, 2012

darkzero said:
I purchased the Wera Bit Ratchet knowing that it was made in Taiwan. It even says made in Taiwan on the package. I needed a bit ratchet & this one caught my eye. I have no regrets & I love the little guy. The other Wera ratchets don't appeal to me, even if the prices were reasonable.

Honestly, if I had known I was going to purchase a Taiwan made bit ratchet, I would have just gone with a VIM for $8.

Alternately, at the price I paid, I would rather have gone with the Facom, it's made by the same company from what I can see, and it comes with a really nice 1/4" hex extension and an enclosed box.

Being that Wera doesn't seem to be as forthcoming with the provenance of any of their Taiwan made tools (whereas the Czech ones are usually marked), I have to wonder how many other of their unmarked tools aren't Czech made.

As I said above, I generally really like Taiwan made tools, but I am not going to pay USA or German prices for Taiwan tools.

I'm not saying that the Bit Ratchet in particular isn't worth the money, if you get it on sale ($50) with the bit-check kit, then it's a decent deal. The Zyklop though, I mean come on... a Taiwan made single socket set (meaning only one drive standard/depth) for $400?

Um, no thanks.

darkzero · Mar 26, 2012

vintagefan said:
Honestly, if I had known I was going to purchase a Taiwan made bit ratchet, I would have just gone with a VIM for $8.

I can understand some of what you are saying but my intent was not to buy a Taiwan made ratchet, I was simply mentioning that I purchased it knowing it was made in Taiwan.

Made in Taiwan is one thing but what about the people who designed the product? Germans who designed the product who contracted it to be made in Taiwan is not the same as Chinese or Taiwanese making a product of their own (or copying a design).

Not saying that justifies the price difference but it does account for some of it. Many people don't think about that & I know many people could care less. If I had second thoughts about purchasing the bit ratchet because it was made in Taiwan, if it was made in Czech, that wouldn't have persuaded me anymore to get it. Sure reputation of COO is one thing but what makes made in Czech any better for tool quality?

vintagefan · Mar 26, 2012

darkzero said:
I can understand some of what you are saying but my intent was not to buy a Taiwan made ratchet, I was simply mentioning that I purchased it knowing it was made in Taiwan.

Made in Taiwan is one thing but what about the people who designed the product? Germans who designed the product who contracted it to be made in Taiwan is not the same as Chinese or Taiwanese making a product of their own (or copying a design).

Not saying that justifies the price difference but it does account for some of it. Many people don't think about that & I know many people could care less. If I had second thoughts about purchasing the bit ratchet because it was made in Taiwan, if it was made in Czech, that wouldn't have persuaded me anymore to get it. Sure reputation of COO is one thing but what makes made in Czech any better for tool quality?

The Czech republic falls more into "Euro" than it does into "cheap outsource" IMO. OTOH, I think Taiwan is the USA of Asia, and Japan is the Germany, regarding tool production at least.

Holt · Mar 26, 2012

First off I am a huge Wera fan and the bit ratchet being made in Taiwan is not a huge turn off. Sure I would like if it was made in Germany or CR but it is what it is and I think as long as it is Engineered by German and made in Taiwan I am willing to accept. I use to be putt off my the made in China and Taiwan thing but now I have been pretty selective over what I get. Gearwrench has been very good to me and I have the Gearwrench bit ratchet and if it is of the same quality of the wera I would have paid what you paid for a finer tooth with a shorter profile. Also for that premium price how do we not know it is getting top quality manufacturing in Taiwan but at the same time how do we know they are not pocketing the extra. All I know is there screwdrivers are bad Azz

Plasmatic · Mar 26, 2012

I recently purchased several of the socket sets with the nice deals on Amazon. All of the outer cardboard boxes still say "Made in Czech Rep." on the labels that show what comes in the set. I could not find any COO markings on the tools themselves.

You are correct, the 1/4" drive stuff is still very loose -- I was not expecting that. But, I love the other features of the ratchet/set so I will keep them anyways. I'll just tell myself it is a feature for fitting into tight spaces at weird angles...

kissmeimgerman · Mar 26, 2012

Im not sure about the Zyklop ratchet, but the sockets are made Taiwan

Roots · Mar 26, 2012

Monte, to the courtesy phone please!

Monte · Mar 27, 2012

lol

sorry in germany the Wera products are not marked with the coo.
I think i remember that the zyklop ratchet packages have a "Made in CZ" on the sticker ?

pacsguy · Mar 27, 2012

Zyklop sets are made in Taiwan. Chadstoolbox has confirmed.

vintagefan · Mar 27, 2012

I can say that while I don't feel the Zyklop sets are poor quality, I don't feel that they're all that amazing either. Compared to the other work I've seen come out of Czech republic, there isn't a match.

For instance, I inspected a brand new just purchased set today, and the extensions and u-joint had a hand sanded look to the large ends (you could see grinding marks through the satin), and rather coarse machining on the stubs. The only thing that made them look decent was the satin finish, if that wasn't there, they'd seriously be walmart status.

The ratchet is the only piece out of the set, in fact, that I truly wasn't underwhelmed by. The sockets weren't all that bad either.

ultgar · Mar 29, 2012

vintagefan said:
I can say that while I don't feel the Zyklop sets are poor quality, I don't feel that they're all that amazing either. Compared to the other work I've seen come out of Czech republic, there isn't a match.

For instance, I inspected a brand new just purchased set today, and the extensions and u-joint had a hand sanded look to the large ends (you could see grinding marks through the satin), and rather coarse machining on the stubs. The only thing that made them look decent was the satin finish, if that wasn't there, they'd seriously be walmart status.

The ratchet is the only piece out of the set, in fact, that I truly wasn't underwhelmed by. The sockets weren't all that bad either.

I felt the same way when I brought in the Zyklop sets....they looked great in the videos but I was a little underwhelmed when they arrived. SD

shoturtle · Mar 29, 2012

The first batch of zyclop and the hammer ratchet were made in czech with taiwan parts. They now do ratchets stuff in taiwan like the extension and socket bit adapters plus the socket. Think the jokers are made in czech. The wera screwdrivers are made in the czech. The one I brought the package has made in czech on the lable.

But the bulk of the wera stuff is made in their czech plant.

shoturtle · Mar 29, 2012

darkzero said:
I can understand some of what you are saying but my intent was not to buy a Taiwan made ratchet, I was simply mentioning that I purchased it knowing it was made in Taiwan.

Made in Taiwan is one thing but what about the people who designed the product? Germans who designed the product who contracted it to be made in Taiwan is not the same as Chinese or Taiwanese making a product of their own (or copying a design).

Not saying that justifies the price difference but it does account for some of it. Many people don't think about that & I know many people could care less. If I had second thoughts about purchasing the bit ratchet because it was made in Taiwan, if it was made in Czech, that wouldn't have persuaded me anymore to get it. Sure reputation of COO is one thing but what makes made in Czech any better for tool quality?

As long is the iso standands are met, their really is no difference between a made in taiwan or made in czech or made in germany. The designs of the wera stuff is all done in germany.

Hazet has made in taiwan gearwench but they are super expensive. 260 euros, pretty damed pricey, more then the cost of a snappy. But they have a purchaser quality level set very high. More so then gearwrench stuff made at the same plant.

Other german companies have done similar, wiha make the pliers now in vietnam. But has a very higher purchaser standard. And from all review they are excellent. It was not like gedora, when they tried India. That was pretty poor stuff. ISO standand oversite of their suppliers with inspection and the occassional surprise inspection helps keep quality up.

vintagefan · Mar 29, 2012

shoturtle said:
As long is the iso standands are met, their really is no difference between a made in taiwan or made in czech or made in germany. The designs or the wera stuff is all done in germany.

For most tools, I'd have to agree with you, but when you're looking at things like screwdrivers and diagonal cutters, heat treatment and steel quality gets crazy important.

There is a substantial difference, for example, in the durability of German made Wera, and Czech made Wera. I have several German made Wera drivers that have outlasted dozens of Czech made drivers.

shoturtle · Mar 29, 2012

That was why I switch form the regular wera to the stainless steel on. It is much harder then the regular diamond wera with their screwdriver. For screwdrivers, PB swiss and wiha are my number 1 for precision work, wera has alway been number 2. But with the SS and the chisel models. They are really impressive in their durability. But that is why they cost more like the wiha and pb swiss models.

MrMark · Mar 29, 2012

vintagefan said:
For most tools, I'd have to agree with you, but when you're looking at things like screwdrivers and diagonal cutters, heat treatment and steel quality gets crazy important.

There is a substantial difference, for example, in the durability of German made Wera, and Czech made Wera. I have several German made Wera drivers that have outlasted dozens of Czech made drivers.

Really? I have set of German made Wera electrical screwdrivers that I haven't used much. Your post makes me want to get them out and start using them over all the other stuff to see if there is much difference. I do like Czech Lasertip but they are soft. They grip like no other except maybe SO Zephr though. Not as soft as say a Klien, which only last one camout before they deform, but a little soft.

shoturtle · Mar 29, 2012

MrMark if you like the wera laser tip, look at their stainless steel set. They are way harder then the regular kraftform.

shoturtle · Mar 29, 2012

pacsguy said:
Zyklop sets are made in Taiwan. Chadstoolbox has confirmed.

I looked at chads, no info on coo of just the ratchet. The sockets and extensions are taiwan. That I know for sure. But the ratchet I have was labeled made in Czech. And the 72t gearing stuff is taiwan made. So by percentage the wera set is more taiwan then Czech. So they are mostly right about that.

shoturtle · Apr 4, 2012

Okay, the wera zyklop I have is made in the czech republic. I just receive some wera locking extension, they are also made in the czech republic. And the kraftform drivers are also czech with their bits. It seems only the sockets are made in taiwan.

Monte · Apr 5, 2012

pics with coo on the package ?

shoturtle · Apr 5, 2012

Posted photos and package with the made in czech label in the old world thread

Tony N. · Apr 5, 2012

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Y8Y31K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I just bought that bit set. It's made in Taiwan?!

vintagefan · Apr 6, 2012

MrMark said:
Really? I have set of German made Wera electrical screwdrivers that I haven't used much. Your post makes me want to get them out and start using them over all the other stuff to see if there is much difference. I do like Czech Lasertip but they are soft. They grip like no other except maybe SO Zephr though. Not as soft as say a Klien, which only last one camout before they deform, but a little soft.

I know it's been a few days since this post, but I figured I'd reply.

I have this one old school Wera (it's one of the early all black plastic handle versions), I think it's a 4mm flatblade, it's lasted my entire career, literally. I also have a #1 Phillips that has outlived several other drivers. The only reason I stopped using it is because the handle is so beat up and ugly that I don't like it any more.

Wera and Taiwan?

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