I want to change the classifieds up a bit... Need your feedback!

Ryan · May 21, 2012

OK guys, I'm thinking about a change and want your feedback... I recently made this same change on jalopyjournal.com and it's been really well received, so it made me think maybe we should do it here.

We sort of **** as a classifieds site and I don't know that we will ever be great at it. We just aren't focused there and don't really have aspirations to be a classifieds site... In any case, I do feel like the section is broken in a way and could be better for those that really use it. I see two major issues:

1. People don't read the rules. And you know what? I don't really blame them... I mean, I don't read rules all that often either.

2. Because people don't read the rules, they are constantly replying to ads when they shouldn't and doing other disruptive things.

As a result, we have classified ads (typically the ads that are well done) that don't get their fair share of time at the top of the forum and others that spend too much time on top because they are being bumped by "illegal" replies. Stuff like:

- "PM sent."
- "Those grips are ugly."
- "Will you ship those to me for free."
- "Where are you located?"
- "I've seen those for $10 cheaper on ebay."
- "Ad pics."

This is all stuff that could be sent to the seller via private message and as a result, wouldn't bump the ad back to the top of the forum and steal space from ads that deserve it.

So, what did we do over on jalopyjournal.com? We removed replies entirely. The original poster can still reply to his ad in order to bump it every three days, but other users can't reply at all - they are forced to send a pm with their questions, etc...

I'm actually pretty amazed at how well it has worked. The classifieds are sooo much cleaner and easier to browse. And, as an upside, it's way easier for us to catch people that are bumping their ads early. It's been great.

That said, I wanted to get your feedback before I did something like this here.

Thoughts?

Concerns?

Ray-CA · May 21, 2012

I like the idea.

Ray

Cheap5.0 · May 21, 2012

To each there own. I use sites that run a nice/clean classified setup and i use some that are like GJ.

I like the GJ setup, but i also like the other setups ive seen. As for garbage comments, if you want them to stop just make a rule and enforce if for a few weeks with 1-3 month bans. Seems to keep people in line.

Copytech · May 21, 2012

Need location in title. That way if someone is selling a lathe that is pickup only in California and I'm in Ohio I won't waste their time as it is to far away.

Ryan · May 21, 2012

Cheap5.0 said:
To each there own. I use sites that run a nice/clean classified setup and i use some that are like GJ.

I like the GJ setup, but i also like the other setups ive seen. As for garbage comments, if you want them to stop just make a rule and enforce if for a few weeks with 1-3 month bans. Seems to keep people in line.

That doesn't work. We've tried it... Just pisses people off and gets me all kinds of nasty emails.

Copytech said:
Need location in title. That way if someone is selling a lathe that is pickup only in California and I'm in Ohio I won't waste their time as it is to far away.

I totally agree with that.

Buckgnarly · May 21, 2012

Only issue I see is that some may play the game of
"selling to the highest bidder", there would be no way for the first potential buyer from making it known that they were first/interested/whatever.

Most on here are honest enough to abide by their sales and initial deals made, but some......

Other than that, I think the idea is great to eliminate the useless posting.

Is there anyway to have seller/buyer feedback? I've seen it on some forums, and really like it.

Ryan · May 21, 2012

Buckgnarly said:
Only issue I see is that some may play the game of
"selling to the highest bidder", there would be no way for the potential buyer from making it known that they were first/interested/whatever.

Most on here are honest enough to abide by their sales and initial deals made, but some......

I've always felt it was the seller's prerogative to sell their item to whomever they want to. I realize that brings to font some moral issues with prices/offers or what have you, but the creme typically rises...

waggie · May 21, 2012

there's a classified section here? j/k

i say enforce the hell out of it. It's stupid for posters of classified section to post some heavy equipment like lathe or mills and not give location. I hate that!

no pic, no model number, no location, no price..... no service.

Ryan · May 21, 2012

waggie said:
there's a classified section here? j/k

i say enforce the hell out of it. It's stupid for posters of classified section to post some heavy equipment like lathe or mills and not give location. I hate that!

no pic, no model number, no location, no price..... no service.

There are things that are easy to enforce and others that aren't. To be honest, I want to keep it clean with the least amount of moderator effort.

1. Pic. This one is easy to enforce, but not one I want to. Some folks have issues with images and uploading.

2. Model number. That would be a nightmare for us.

3. Location. I really think we need to enforce this.

4. Price. We already enforce this one.

Pug}{maN · May 21, 2012

it works for me, i pm most the time anyway, just hope the poster says sold when its gone so i ant pm ing on something thats gone.. i at least no now if its gone when someone says 'ill take it pm on the way"..

tatra · May 21, 2012

pic would be nice and model number should be included.........don't personally use the classifieds myself but interesting to see what is out there and the asking price..........course some have no idea what to ask and just put an astronomical value with best offer type of thing......kind of defeats the price rule you have but how to clean that up, i dunno.......is there a templlate [? not i/t savvy} that one would have to fill out the necessary fields before they could post?........

Cheap5.0 · May 21, 2012

Ryan said:
That doesn't work. We've tried it... Just pisses people off and gets me all kinds of nasty emails.

I totally agree with that.

Add a zero tolerance/no questions, then use the perma ban if its broken. I dont think anyone would miss an ******* like that :thumbup:

But i am not telling you how to run this. Just my view on things. Like i said, both systems (all i have seen) work equally well in my eyes...so its a moot point for me.

Ryan · May 21, 2012

I'm totally shocked by the response. I really didn't think you fellas would go for it.

Cheap5.0 · May 21, 2012

Ryan said:
There are things that are easy to enforce and others that aren't. To be honest, I want to keep it clean with the least amount of moderator effort.

1. Pic. This one is easy to enforce, but not one I want to. Some folks have issues with images and uploading.

2. Model number. That would be a nightmare for us.

3. Location. I really think we need to enforce this.

4. Price. We already enforce this one.

This is a local site i use for my reefing hobby:

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/selling-forums/

I know the owner implemented an off the shelf 3rd party program that allowed him to customize the "required" fields. Works pretty well, but i have no hands on experience with it to tell you how custom you can get.

That would keep things pretty hassle free for you, and would allow "model/part numbers", pics, locations, shipping preferences, payment preferences...

pop pop · May 21, 2012

Well, no one likes to waste time reading garbage or the same add getting btt for worthless drivel. But, some adds need questions for clarification before you're sure if you have an interest. Perhaps the OP just didn't make something clear and it is of interest to all. To oversimplify. Say there is an add for screwdrivers. Someone asks if the handles are included. Everyone would be interested to know this. Knowing for instance that handles are not included, I'm not going to pursue any futher, PM or otherwise. So that question gets posted. The "I can find them cheaper" should not, unless the poster tells everyone where to buy them for how much. That changes from drivel to helpful.

RKA · May 21, 2012

Ryan, go for it! I've seen little value to all the replies in a thread anyway. If anything it helps me determine what's been sold when a poster has been lazy about updating their ad, but other than that, I think there is little downside to doing it your way.

Ryan · May 21, 2012

pop pop said:
Well, no one likes to waste time reading garbage or the same add getting btt for worthless drivel. But, some adds need questions for clarification before you're sure if you have an interest. Perhaps the OP just didn't make something clear and it is of interest to all. To oversimplify. Say there is an add for screwdrivers. Someone asks if the handles are included. Everyone would be interested to know this. Knowing for instance that handles are not included, I'm not going to pursue any futher, PM or otherwise. So that question gets posted. The "I can find them cheaper" should not, unless the poster tells everyone where to buy them for how much. That changes from drivel to helpful.

That is the one thing we will miss... But most of those questions and answers are so over shadowed by **** at this point, I think the positives might out weight the negatives.

JimVonBaden · May 21, 2012

pop pop said:
Well, no one likes to waste time reading garbage or the same add getting btt for worthless drivel. But, some adds need questions for clarification before you're sure if you have an interest. Perhaps the OP just didn't make something clear and it is of interest to all. To oversimplify. Say there is an add for screwdrivers. Someone asks if the handles are included. Everyone would be interested to know this. Knowing for instance that handles are not included, I'm not going to pursue any futher, PM or otherwise. So that question gets posted. The "I can find them cheaper" should not, unless the poster tells everyone where to buy them for how much. That changes from drivel to helpful.

I know a few forums that restrict any replies, and I honestly do not like them. The lack of ability to request clarification, because lets face it some people just say they have a wrench for sale, with no other information, makes the classifieds hard and frustrating to use. More helpful would be a mod dedicated to removing junk in the posts, and warning the commenter.

That is my opinion.

Jim

PS Yes, I know it is a lot of work, but there are usually plenty of people willing to take it on.

Ryan · May 21, 2012

JimVonBaden said:
I know a few forums that restrict any replies, and I honestly do not like them. The lack of ability to request clarification, because lets face it some people just say they have a wrench for sale, with no other information, makes the classifieds hard and frustrating to use. More helpful would be a mod dedicated to removing junk in the posts, and warning the commenter.

That is my opinion.

Jim

PS Yes, I know it is a lot of work, but there are usually plenty of people willing to take it on.

So... Why can't you just pm the user for clarification?

Ryan · May 21, 2012

FrankLee said:
I like the "no reply" idea, but wish it was optional on all forums, not just classifieds.

It would be nice if the OP could be able to delete other's replies in their ads, but that would be a can of worms.

I just looked at a few of my classifieds and there's nothing posted by buyers/prospects that PMs couldn't address.

You're just talking about Classifieds and not the entire Garage Sale section? I would not like this for the Wanted! forum.

For sale and wanted... I mean, it seems to me (and I could be wrong) that the general philosophy of this change works for both.

Outlawmws · May 21, 2012

pop pop said:
Well, no one likes to waste time reading garbage or the same add getting btt for worthless drivel. But, some adds need questions for clarification before you're sure if you have an interest. Perhaps the OP just didn't make something clear and it is of interest to all. To oversimplify. Say there is an add for screwdrivers. Someone asks if the handles are included. Everyone would be interested to know this. Knowing for instance that handles are not included, I'm not going to pursue any futher, PM or otherwise. So that question gets posted. The "I can find them cheaper" should not, unless the poster tells everyone where to buy them for how much. That changes from drivel to helpful.

Ryan said:
That is the one thing we will miss... But most of those questions and answers are so over shadowed by **** at this point, I think the positives might out weight the negatives.

If it really needs clarification it should be on the seller to fix it. A PM sent with a legitimate question should motivate the seller to edit their ad.

I like the approach. I say go for it!

JimVonBaden · May 21, 2012

Ryan said:
So... Why can't you just pm the user for clarification?

I could, but that helps only me.

Jim

PS I guess I really don't care. This classifieds holds mostly a lot of resellers selling hand tools. I have no interest in that.

charleyw · May 21, 2012

I'm for it. As a user on the HAMB I largely ignored the classifieds, it was easier than trying to wade through some of them.
Since the change, it's a world of difference. Go for it.

BD1 · May 21, 2012

Definitely change. If someone is interested , PM poster. We do not need to read everybody's BS about what they think.

bczygan · May 21, 2012

I learn a lot, on every kind of thread, from people posting about things. You have to wade through a bit of drek to get it, but worth it for someone learning.
I haven't seen that the classifieds is too cluttered, at least for my tastes.
That said, I don't use PM's enough in any forum. My rule should be that if it is a conversation I'm having with the OP, it should be a PM or email. If it's a discussion I'm having with the group, it should be a post to the forum or thread.
But I usually default to the latter, even when it should be the former.

I don't mind the idea of no posts, but that means we don't have the open and visible group peer pressure to push a seller into giving us more and better photos and description etc. Nor is there a place to discuss the merits of the product or other useful info like parts and warranty info or available accessories. The group dynamic has benefits as well and negatives.

Bill

signcrafter · May 21, 2012

On other forums I have always gone by post first in thread and then PM as to who gets the item. But like you said if you just go by PMs the seller can decide weather they go by the first come first serve or by the highest "bidder". This is how it works in "real life" like craigslist, the seller can decide to go by first come or by highest bidder.

Any details that need to be cleared up can be edited in the original post by the seller, we don't need another post to clear anything up. If a question is asked in the PMs and the OP feels the need to add the answer he can do so in the original post.

I think it's an alright idea. Personally I don't mind it either way.

Ryan, why don't you just do it for month or two and see how it is received? That way everyone will get to experience the change and get a feel for it themselves and can leave feed back based on their experience.

Dale B · May 21, 2012

A question posted about location or model / p/n # would be usefull to other viewers .....

mtwaterguy · May 21, 2012

Dale B said:
A question posted about location or model / p/n # would be usefull to other viewers .....

That info is useful, but the question is not. As suggested earlier, a PM to the seller is the best way to get this info. If the seller wants to add it to his post using edit, he can increase his chances of a sale.

jshillin · May 21, 2012

Sounds like an excellent idea, I'm all for it. Just require the Location City/State in the subject. I would like to see a "Buyer/Seller Feedback" Sub-forum added if it goes this route though for the deadbeat buyer/sellers.

sumner52000 · May 21, 2012

I like it as long as sellers keep their posts updated with what has been sold.

If you post something good for sale and then go to bed you may have a full inbox in the morning.

jeffmoss26 · May 21, 2012

I just want the OPs to follow the rules. Almost every day, I see people either creating individual threads for ONE item, or bumping their thread WAY too soon.

mtwaterguy · May 21, 2012

jshillin said:
Sounds like an excellent idea, I'm all for it. Just require the Location City/State in the subject. I would like to see a "Buyer/Seller Feedback" Sub-forum added if it goes this route though for the deadbeat buyer/sellers.

We've been using the "product vendor reviews" section for this.

nine4gmc · May 21, 2012

I have seen it both ways at many forums, personally I like "no replies".

TheTurk · May 21, 2012

Requirement of ** amount of posts to post in classifieds section will fix most of those problems IMO they gonna have to get to know the rules in the meantime...

oh and if all items sold that post needs to be closed to reply

just my 2 cents

Syndicate · May 21, 2012

This is a fantastic iderrra that is here. It will be left up to the seller to put all the pertinent ideas and facts into the ad. IF the seller gets a pm asking a question, he can pm the person back letting them know that the ad will be edited with that information. Anyone who does not put a price the ad should not even be able to be published. I scan the ads to buy mostly and I do sell some times as well.

There are several sellers who break the rules constantly! Ryan you already know how I feel on this subject, and I think this idea will solve many of the issues that are being expressed. I think that not only will it be a much cleaner section of the forum, but people will learn quickly that if they do not follow the rules, they get the paddle to the ****.

I would like to ad though, that 1 reply should be able to be left. And that is my favorite, because I do this often when good deals come up. And that reply is, " I will take ALL of it"! :lol_hitti

And I think that location is only pertinent when applicable. Pick up only of course, and also if there is a huge lot where shipping might just be deal breaker on both sides of the selling and buying. Phone # is also an option, but that too is user specific. Some like their privacy others do not care.

Either way, you have my vote on this, and I think it is a great idea. :beer:

00pewter · May 21, 2012

I like the idea. As long as the seller keeps up with the ad.. There is nothing more irritating than an item you want that was JUST sold....2 weeks ago.

Poll is pretty much lopsided!

GirlnAgarage · May 21, 2012

As a seller I hate the PM game. I like an "I"ll take it" reply to the ad or a question about an item. Everything above the board and in plain view for everybody to see. I think the current rules just need to do enforced with next to zero tolerance. I understand that you, Ryan, want GJ to be self-running because of the work and time that moderation takes. It's our site, implement what you want. Users will adjust one way or another.

crewchief888 · May 21, 2012

if it's working over on the HAMB,

then it should be the same here

OP should have an "incentive" to make a follow up post when the item is sold, that way his mailbox doesnt keep getting messages about an item that sold 6 months ago.

probably easier for you as well ryan, one less thing to "monitor"

just my $0.02

:beer:

premierplayer · May 21, 2012

Do it.
Thank you Mods for all that you do.

GeorgiaHybrid · May 21, 2012

A few things of note. The way they are now, if I open a listing and see 2 or 3 replies from people wanting an item, I can pass and not waste my time any further. If something is omitted from the ad, the seller might get 15 PM's about it before he has a chance to edit the ad. As noted by another member, if you would not allow someone with under 100 posts or so to put anything in the classifieds, you would clean up a lot of the BS going on.

Another biggie is that a LOT of the items on the HAMB are big ticket items. Most everything sold here is a quick, reasonably priced item that will not last near as long on the forum as they do over there. Given that short time frame, a quick note to say I'll take it while viewing that thread and then deleting the ad when sold should help a lot in clearing things up.

I want to change the classifieds up a bit... Need your feedback!

Do you want to restructure the classifieds?

Yes. Get rid of comments and clean it up.

No. I like it how it is...

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