Restoring my "BIG JOHNSON" model J bandsaw that is.

Hephaestus29 · Jun 13, 2012

It was suggested I start a thread for the bandsaw i'm renewing so here it is.
It's a good working bandsaw now as it sits but I want to re-paint it & possibly try nickel plating some of the handles etc. myself. I also plan to put wheels on it & possibly incorporate one of my pallet jacks on the front so I can raise the front or lower the wheels which ever when I need to move it but have it sit all the way on the ground most of the time.
I'm using a wire bristle thing you put in your drill to strip the paint, it works pretty good.

I got the saw for free off craigslist & right now the only money I have in it is in the belt & a new pulley. It had the new motor on it when I got it.

Outlawmws · Jun 13, 2012

Holy Cow Batman, do you ever ****! That is an awesome cutoff saw! and for free! One of my closest freinds had that same big monster of a saw (for free also, from the company he worked for at the time...), and I used it a lot "back in the day". (Built my first race car chassis using that saw...)

Does it have the Hydraulic cylinder to control its decent in use? (I guess not, I see it has a tension spring on the back side)

Be a bit careful with wheels on a three leg stand like that. If you put something on the single leg, try to make a little "car" with a wider 2 or 4 wheel stance and firmly attach it to that single leg. You don't want that thing to tip over...

Hephaestus29 · Jun 13, 2012

It does have the original Hydraulic cylinder but it's off at the moment, that spring is original equipment to the saw also.

If anyone else has a saw like this & needs an owners manual I have it in PDF and can send it to you.

jtbinvalrico · Jun 13, 2012

Nice score......Can you share details on the nickel-plating process you are going to use?

Hephaestus29 · Jun 13, 2012

These are just a couple of youtube videos there are lots more so if anyone has any better videos I'll gladly watch.

Nickel plating

Copper plating

Part 1

Part 2

jvitez · Jun 13, 2012

I too have a big johnson, but I generally don't post pictures of it on the 'net..........

:lol:

sorry, couldn't resist.

You Sir, have an absolutely amazing piece of old machinery. I love the industrial design of that era. Please post pics as you restore it. It should look awesome once you're done.

jabberwoki · Jun 13, 2012

You most definitely **** that is a WAY cool tool and for free....................

A_Pmech · Jun 13, 2012

Those are nice machines.

G'luk with the restore. :thumbup:

welder4956 · Jun 13, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
It was suggested I start a thread for the bandsaw i'm renewing so here it is.
It's a good working bandsaw now as it sits but I want to re-paint it & possibly try nickel plating some of the handles etc. myself. I also plan to put wheels on it & possibly incorporate one of my pallet jacks on the front so I can raise the front or lower the wheels which ever when I need to move it but have it sit all the way on the ground most of the time.
I'm using a wire bristle thing you put in your drill to strip the paint, it works pretty good.

I got the saw for free off craigslist & right now the only money I have in it is in the belt & a new pulley. It had the new motor on it when I got it.

Wow! Only the second one of those I've ever seen. The first one is the original made by a fellow named Don Johnson at Alabama Specialty in Munford, AL. The original is sitting in the lobby at his shop. Don is still around, but he is into laser cutting and other specialty machining these days.

jomobco · Jun 14, 2012

I just got mine running as well after buying it 2 years or so ago. I'm so excited! I put it on car dollies (3) to roll it around. The hydraulic cylinder rebuild is pretty simple. Do you have the sheet metal tray for the cooling system? If not PM me and I can shoot you pics. Parts are still available if needed. Cheers!

Hephaestus29 · Jun 14, 2012

jomobco said:
I just got mine running as well after buying it 2 years or so ago. I'm so excited! I put it on car dollies (3) to roll it around. The hydraulic cylinder rebuild is pretty simple. Do you have the sheet metal tray for the cooling system? If not PM me and I can shoot you pics. Parts are still available if needed. Cheers!

I would like to see your pics, yeah the sheet metal tray is on it but I don't know what happened to it, it looks to be cut in half or something, you have to get parts through Danco as far as I know.
Have you been into the gear box ??? I ask because I don't have a coolant hose & don't know if the pump works??? I'll pm you my email address for pics.

Hephaestus29 · Jun 15, 2012

jomobco said:
I sent you an email.

Hey you might as well go ahead & post your Johnson rebuild on here too, maybe we can just get a MOD. to rename the thread the Model J Johnson Bandsaw rebuild thread or something. Howard

Outlawmws · Jun 15, 2012

jomobco said:
I will when I get them on my website. I don't believe you can load images here.

Sure you can. I do it all the time go into the advanced posting:

fordbroncodave · Jun 15, 2012

I know someone with a johnson saw. that thing is quiet and cuts like butter. definitely an essential tool when metal cutting or doing fabrication

jomobco · Jun 16, 2012

Well isn't this special! Thanks for the info! :bounce:

Here you go...and I deleted my two other posts to clean this up. Thx again!

I bought a new fixed arm from Danco (yellow) and a rebuild kit for the hydraulic cylinder. The cylinder rebuild is very straight forward assuming you don't have any rust inside of the tube. It's a leather seal, a spring, a sealing metal BB type ball (used as a valve) and a shaft seal - at least on mine. I had a few extra parts so I guess there are a few different types of cylinders out there. Now my saw will stay in an up position and come down at the speed I designate by my opening up the valve on the cylinder. The pump as you can see on mine is gear driven. I have yet to open up and change the gear box fluid but that is next. It's cutting right now which is what I wanted. I've still got 2 of the sheet metal covers and the adjustable weighted rod that runs between them to reinstall.

I still need to make an additional sheet metal catch tray on the driven side of the saw to catch excess oil which is dripping off as the blade hits the powered pulley. More updates as time permits.

jomobco · Jun 16, 2012

Johnson Model J pump shaft sizing

The pump shaft on mine is .375"

Hephaestus29 · Jun 24, 2012

I talked to the people at Danco & they said the pumps are no longer available so I ended up buying an Oberdorfer off ebay for 39 dollars I think plus shipping. The big Rip Off was buying the Pump gear "Spur Gear" from Danco it was 43.00 & then they charged me 15.00 to ship it from Grand rapids michigan to Indianapolis a 1 lb package! then when it got here it was a Bakelite Gear.
Anyway The pump being a little different I had to fab up a couple of brackets to mount it because i'm a big fan of using existing bolt holes, but in this case it may have been a waste of time because it threw the shaft angle off "you'll see in the pics" so I may end up drilling 2 more holes in the pump itself to mount it. I'll have to post the pics later I don't have time now.

Hephaestus29 · Jun 24, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
I talked to the people at Danco & they said the pumps are no longer available so I ended up buying an Oberdorfer off ebay for 39 dollars I think plus shipping. The big Rip Off was buying the Pump gear "Spur Gear" from Danco it was 43.00 & then they charged me 15.00 to ship it from Grand rapids michigan to Indianapolis a 1 lb package! then when it got here it was a Bakelite Gear.
Anyway The pump being a little different I had to fab up a couple of brackets to mount it because i'm a big fan of using existing bolt holes, but in this case it may have been a waste of time because it threw the shaft angle off "you'll see in the pics" so I may end up drilling 2 more holes in the pump itself to mount it. I'll have to post the pics later I don't have time now.

I finally made time to attach the pics, you can see I just have the Bakelite gear attached to a 3/8ths drill bit to get an idea of the alignment angle and it's off a bit so I think I might just go ahead & drill 2 more holes in the pump mount and maybe that will fix the problem. You can see where the original pump was mounted, & not wanting to cut that bracket up I just attached 2 pieces of angle, which in turn threw the angle off.

jomobco · Jun 25, 2012

Great work! Keep us posted!

Hephaestus29 · Jul 2, 2012

In my haste to make a quick fix using angle iron I temporarily forgot I was a novice machinist so I scrapped the angle & fabbed up a new mount out of 6061 alum. I cut a chunk off a 1 inch thick flat with the Johnson & then milled it square, well rectangular anyway.

At first I recessed the bolts that mount the new mount to the saw but that didn't work out so well so I ended up milling that part off to give me more room to get a wrench on the bolt heads. Then on the other side where the pump mounts I only had to mill off a 1/16 th & it was pretty much right on as you can see in the pics. Now it should only need a minor adjustment to get it dead on after I make the shaft extension hopefull on the 4th of July. I'm not sure how i'm going to secure the shaft extension to the pump shaft yet but the pump shaft is stainless & may be hard to machine but I thought I might make a through hole & just put a roll pin in. The gear has a threaded hole for a set screw.

Big Johnson · Jul 2, 2012

jvitez said:
I too have a big johnson, but I generally don't post pictures of it on the 'net..........

sorry, couldn't resist.

You Sir, have an absolutely amazing piece of old machinery. I love the industrial design of that era. Please post pics as you restore it. It should look awesome once you're done.

Hey, that is my name!!! Show some respect.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 2, 2012

jomobco, any idea what the pipe is for that is sticking up on top of the gear box ? Is that a breather tube or ??

Hephaestus29 · Jul 5, 2012

I decided it would be easiest to put a through hole in the stainless shaft & then put a roll pin in to hold the shaft extension.
I had to mount a smaller table on my mill to get the pump high enough to mill the hole. I also had to support the shaft because it was flexing but it turned out ok.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 8, 2012

I started on the shaft extension tonight, & as you can see I didn't have a small boring bar to finish the Id so I used a 5/16ths end mill to do the job. lol

I had to really work on the shaft of the pump because it seemed to be out of round a little, and where the flat place was milled or however they got it flat there was some upward protruding places keeping it from going all the way into the hole of the extension.

Tomorrow I'll try & finish turning the O.D. & later i'll have to bore a few more holes & thread one that should be fun !

Hephaestus29 · Jul 9, 2012

I almost finished up the shaft extension tonight, all I have left to do is drill & thread one more hole in the shaft for the set screw in the gear. & then it will be ready to test to see if it pumps coolant.

I tapered the shaft & have a piece of 3/16ths nylon rod in there temporarily holding it until I get a roll pin but the nylon might be strong enough to hold, it's pretty tuff.

jomobco · Jul 10, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
jomobco, any idea what the pipe is for that is sticking up on top of the gear box ? Is that a breather tube or ??

I think it's a breather. IIRC from looking through the PDF manual I have (which I don't have access to at the moment) there was a breather on the gear box. If you don't have it I can look later this week when I'm home.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 11, 2012

jomobco said:
I think it's a breather. IIRC from looking through the PDF manual I have (which I don't have access to at the moment) there was a breather on the gear box. If you don't have it I can look later this week when I'm home.

I checked already thanks, it is the breather tube & probably fill hole too.

A_Pmech · Jul 11, 2012

Nice work on the pump installation. Looks "factory" as my neighbor says.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 11, 2012

A_Pmech said:
Nice work on the pump installation. Looks "factory" as my neighbor says.

Thanks, & coming from you & seeing your work I appreciate the compliment.

kyrbz · Jul 11, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
These are just a couple of youtube videos there are lots more so if anyone has any better videos I'll gladly watch.

Nickel plating

Copper plating

Part 1

Part 2

Nice saw! I use Caswell's Electroless Nickel Plating system quite a bit. It's easy and works great. No video, but I have some pictures and links to Caswell here-

http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/2009/09/electroless-nickel-plating.html

Hephaestus29 · Jul 15, 2012

Well I finished the pump install, the set screw was the last thing to do.

I tried it out & it does not work, I turned it on before there was any water up to the rubber gear but before hand I had squirted quite a bit of oil in there to make sure it was lubed up good. When I went to install a brass fitting in the pump a piece of the gear fell out.
It's a Bronze bodied pump with a rubber impeller pump, and it was just part of the rubber impeller that fell out. I havn't taken it apart yet but I wouldn't think that would cause it not to work at all. I did try priming it but that didn't help.
I'm wondering if the I.D. size of the line would have anything to do with it ?
Does it self prime ?
Does it have to operate at a specific RPM to work properly ?
I'm going to call Oberdorfer in the morning to find out.

coolreed · Jul 15, 2012

OMG! It IS a Big Johnson.

Great Project.

YOU ****!!!!

Hephaestus29 · Jul 15, 2012

Well I just took the pump apart & every blade on the impeller is broke ! that explains why it isn't working !!!

A_Pmech · Jul 16, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
Well I just took the pump apart & every blade on the impeller is broke ! that explains why it isn't working !!!

Damn! That's no good!

Is it positive displacement rubber vane pump? That's the impression I get...

They don't like to be operated in reverse, or have their shafts turned forwards and backwards. It tends to fatigue the vane roots. If the rubber insert is old, they tend to frag quickly too.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 16, 2012

A_Pmech said:
Damn! That's no good!

Is it positive displacement rubber vane pump? That's the impression I get...

They don't like to be operated in reverse, or have their shafts turned forwards and backwards. It tends to fatigue the vane roots. If the rubber insert is old, they tend to frag quickly too.

I'm not too familiar with pumps so I don't really know about that kind of pump.
All I know, is that it's an impeller pump with 6 rubber blades on the impeller.
The impeller also sits slightly off center in the bore.

If i'm not mistaken they can be operated in either direction according to the arrows i've seen on the pumps, but after looking at the impeller & the way it's made you're certainly right & the thing I think I would have to do is flip the impeller over so that it's spinning the right way, & moving the coolant the way I want it to move.
I appreciate your help on this it gives me something to go on.

I'll take a pic of the inside of the pump & post it.

I've seen similar impellers on ebay for around 20 - 35 dollars.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 16, 2012

Well here's some pics of the inside of the pump & whats left of the impeller.
Now I know not to turn it in both directions, a lesson learned I guess. These pumps are around 300.00 from what i've seen but I should be able to get a replacement impeller for about 10% of that.

A_Pmech · Jul 16, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
Well here's some pics of the inside of the pump & whats left of the impeller.
Now I know not to turn it in both directions, a lesson learned I guess. These pumps are around 300.00 from what i've seen but I should be able to get a replacement impeller for about 10% of that.

It was probably on it's way out anyway. They fatigue over time as the blades have to bend with each revolution. The rubber cracks on the leading side of the blade right at the root just like yours and the pump starts to lose lift. Turn it backwards once at that point and all the blades break off. :lol:

At least you can get a new impeller!

Hephaestus29 · Jul 17, 2012

I think i'm in luck, I talked to a distributor for Oberdorfer pumps & he said that pump hasn't been made in 10 years but they still had some impellers left on the shelf but when they're gone they're gone so I plan on buying several since he said they were only fourteen dollars a piece.

Hephaestus29 · Jul 22, 2012

I struck gold tonight while working on my saw. Actually I discovered that one of the blade guides had been broken & has been brazed.

I'm almost finished stripping the paint, but my new impellers for the pump still havn't got here yet. I'm about ready to disassemble the whole thing.

A_Pmech · Jul 22, 2012

Hephaestus29 said:
I think i'm in luck, I talked to a distributor for Oberdorfer pumps & he said that pump hasn't been made in 10 years but they still had some impellers left on the shelf but when they're gone they're gone so I plan on buying several since he said they were only fourteen dollars a piece.

Awesome!

I struck gold tonight while working on my saw. Actually I discovered that one of the blade guides had been broken & has been brazed

Looks like they did a decent job. As long as you can make it cut true within the existing range of guide adjustment I'd leave it be.

Restoring my "BIG JOHNSON" model J bandsaw that is.

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