Rainwater Tanks and Water Collection Systems

Captain · Mar 10, 2008

OK, my garage gallery thread was starting to wander, so I thought it best to start a new thread on this topic.

Storage of rainwater is a hot topic here in Australia, but why shouldn't it be all over the world where the summers are dry?

I'll start off with my first attempt at saving the planet.
With my new shed, it was just the done thing to install some tanks as well.
To save yard space, I bought the slim variety, which neatly slotted in behind.
I got the 'modular' style rather than the corrugated, and I think it blends in well for my situation. (See manufacturer's pictures below).
The two tanks I have will store 4000l = 900gal.
Not a lot I know, but every little bit helps.

I will soon be adding a tank to the house, and topping it up with the shed tanks as needed.

The plumbing is simple plastic pipe and fittings that are glued together.
I added an inspection cap below the first drop off the gutters to collect some of the heavy dirt and to allow easy cleaning of the gutters later.
You can buy special "first flush" diverters for this, but I've heard mixed reports on those, so made my own.

I plumbed my outlet into a pit in the ground with a diverter to either a soakage pipe through the garden, or out to stormwater.
As I see it, why let so much water go out to sea, when it should be going into the ground.
You will notice the length of guttering sitting on top of the tanks in the picture below. It doesn't serve any purpose at the moment, just a handy place to store it!

So I've started, what have you done?

nissan_crawler · Mar 10, 2008

In some parts of the U.S., collecting rain water is illegal, due to it belonging to states downstream, or some such thing. I've heard of people getting in trouble for it. I know it is in Colorado for one.

Charles (in GA) · Mar 10, 2008

nissan_crawler said:
In some parts of the U.S., collecting rain water is illegal, due to it belonging to states downstream, or some such thing. I've heard of people getting in trouble for it. I know it is in Colorado for one.

In Pennsylvania even having a simple rain barrel is illegal. Didn't believe it till I looked at the PA laws, but true.

Charles

Nothing like that in GA....... yet.

FunfDreisig · Mar 10, 2008

In Texas collecting rain water is not only legal it is encouraged with tax reductions etc. The city of Austin leads the way. They give residents rain barrels for their down spouts. In some counties the value of a rain water collection system is deducted when calculating property taxes. Some counties offer interest free loans to homeowners who are installing rain water collection systems.

FWIW we depend EXCLUSIVELY on the rain water collected from the roof of our small cabin (1,100 sf ft roof -> a little over 600gal/in of rain) into a 10,000 gal Australian designed Pioneer tank. It's been six months since tha last decent rain -- the tank is half full.

One of the principal design components of the new garage is a large metal "shed" roof for easy rain water catchment into 2 additional 10,000 gal Pioneer tanks. I've already installed the tanks; now all I need to build is the garage

BTW you won't believe how great rain water tastes, feels in the shower, washes clothes, etc. Once you've tried it, you won't go back to "treated water" easily.

Funf dreisig

nova65ss · Mar 10, 2008

That is a great idea. We are having severe drought conditions here in Raleigh to the point some of our lakes have all but dried up, big lakes too that cover 3 counties. We are on restrictions and if things don't change soon we will be out of water sometime in the middle of summer. Would love to see more of what others have done also.

Fueler · Mar 10, 2008

Any insulation in the mass produced tanks to compensate for winter weather?

Captain · Mar 10, 2008

I've never seen insulated tanks as we don't get freezing cold here.
But concrete underground tanks are also an option, either to build your driveway/shed above, or presumably to insulate?

Fueler · Mar 10, 2008

This has been an eye opener. A little googling drowns me in info from down under. While we have plenty of water where I am....for now.... the idea appeals to me and since we pay for water, costs keep going up. We had a dry period last summer where I actually watered the yard. Needless to say, the increased bill was a wake up call.

My issues would be the cold and keeping tree junk out of it. I spend too much time cleaning gutters of leaves and fir needles as it is so I know that will be a major issue to solve. Now..if it would just rain gasoline on odd days.

PAToyota · Mar 10, 2008

Charles (in GA) said:
In Pennsylvania even having a simple rain barrel is illegal. Didn't believe it till I looked at the PA laws, but true.

I'd be interested in more information on what law that is. I've done rainwater collection systems for a number of buildings including this one - http://www.thelondonderryschool.org/info/greenbldgtour.htm - where rainwater was collected both for water for toilets and for irrigation for the site. And the following one:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency Goes Green

The Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency (PHFA) is enjoying a cool summer in its new resource-efficient headquarters in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. The building is expected to earn a Silver Certification from the U.S. Green Building Council-the second highest level in the LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) rating system.

The building's light beige exterior and white roof help reduce the "heat island effect" common to dense urban areas. Because the building reflects heat and is well insulated, it also has a lower air-conditioning load, which cuts energy consumption-and energy bills.

To save water, the building includes a 10,000-gallon rainwater storage tank for toilet flushing and low-flow plumbing fixtures. Other resource-efficient features include 25% recycled materials such as steel, concrete, and carpets, and use of renewable resources such as bamboo floors. Eighty percent of the waste generated during construction was recycled.
[/FONT]

I am aware of some regulations about the storage of rainwater meeting certain standards, but not disallowing it outright.

FunfDreisig · Mar 10, 2008

Fueler said:
Any insulation in the mass produced tanks to compensate for winter weather?

Here in central Texas the thermal mass of the water keeps the tank's temperature quite stable even without insulation.

The Pioneer tanks we use are assembled on site. Everything except the roof of a 10,000 gal Pioneer tank fits on one pallet and can be hauled in the back of a pickup truck. The "skin" is galvalum metal panels that are bolted together to form a rigid cylinder, A multi-layer lining is "hung" inside with bolts in the upper ring. You could insulate between the metal "skin" and the poly "liner" with any material that would be flexible and relatively thin. The roof is made of corrugated galvalum custom cut on site. A 10,000 gal tank is just under 7.5' tall and 15.5' in diameter. So you need a 16' trailer to haul a couple of sheets of gavalum for the roof.

You can install a 10,000 gal tank with filters, UV light and a 65 PSI on-demand pump for under $8,000. The filters go down to a few microns and the UV light kills any remaining bacteria that made it through the filters. The resulting water is potable and tastes wonderful. A 10,000gal tank by itself is around $6,000 installed.

Funf Dreisig

FunfDreisig · Mar 10, 2008

Attached are two views of our new garage in Google Sketchup. The first one is a view from the left corner at about eye level. The 2nd one shows the two 10,000 gal tanks behind the garage from a bird's eye view. The point is that it will be very difficult to see the tanks from anywhere a person is likely to be.

FWIW I have excavated the limestone ledge and the tanks are already installed. All that is missing is the garage

Funf Driesig

JB740i · Mar 10, 2008

FunfDreisig said:
You can install a 10,000 gal tank with filters, UV light and a 65 PSI on-demand pump for under $8,000. The filters go down to a few microns and the UV light kills any remaining bacteria that made it through the filters. The resulting water is potable and tastes wonderful. A 10,000gal tank by itself is around $6,000 installed.

Funf Dreisig

Okay, so that answers my question that came up when showering/drinking was mentioned. I was gonna ask what do you do with the bird poop/pollen/whatever else.

But the $6000 means I'll probably just add barrels to my house soon to be under construction.

FunfDreisig · Mar 10, 2008

JB740i said:
...But the $6000 means I'll probably just add barrels to my house soon to be under construction.

My wife and I live on a single 10,000 gal tank, in an area that gets an average of 32in of rain a year. We use the rain water for every thing except clothes washing, which we do at the local laundromat -- our cabin is just to small for a washer and dryer.

You can easily get smaller poly tanks from 35 gal up to 2,500 gal at almost any farm and ranch supply store (e.g. Tractor Supply). So these rain water catchment systems are scalable. You can start with rain barrels on the gutters and move up to larger tanks as money or interest allows. If you have an alternate water source (e.g. a well) you can easily get by with less than a 10,000gal tank. Even without a well, you can purchase water by the truck load (2,000-2,500 gal/truck). Around here a truck load of water delivered costs roughly $100. We purchased water once for each tank we installed to add weight/stability until the rain water starts filling them up.

You only need 20-30,000 gals when it is your only source of water and you don't want to mix purchased treated water with your clean rain water

Funf Dreisig

michael Mccoy · Mar 10, 2008

The cities in Northern Georgia have been supplying and selling rain barrels to it's residents for 2 yrs now,$20.00 They are white plastic 55 gal drums that we install under a downspout. Home depot sells them for over $100. We are under no water usage laws outside for almost a year now. They have threatened to turn off your water if caught using it outside. You can have many barrels looped from one to the other.

HoosierBuddy · Mar 10, 2008

I think where this goes from a great idea to ileagal is when/if the rainwater goes down a sewer line. Anyone that has a sanitary sewer service that is billed from their metered water usage might be considered to be "stealing sewer service" if they put unmetered water down the sewer.

I know with wells, they also don't want you to have your well hooked up to a line that is also hooked to municipal water because many water services don't have a check valve, and your water may or may not be contaminated...so they have to prohibit it. Even with a check valve, the check valve might fail allowing you to pump into the water system.

I love the idea of having a rain barrel irrigation system though. It might be a great project.

Phil

Bib Overalls · Mar 10, 2008

"Cistern" is the word that I associate with rain water tanks. They are very common in the tropics. In places with limited or no natural fresh water like Key West, Bermuda and much of the Carribean every house, every roof has a cistern. In some cases, houses are actually built over cisterns. In the good old days people with good supplies of natural water used rain barrels to collect "soft" water for bathing. This has fallen out of fashon in most of the civilized world. But people continue to collect it for use on potted plants.

I think rain barrels were out lawed in some communities because of their potential as mosquito breeding places.

The large plastic tanks sold for agricultural pourposes would make good cisterns. The water might taste funny. But it would be good for the yard and washing our rides.

nissan_crawler · Mar 10, 2008

HoosierBuddy said:
I think where this goes from a great idea to ileagal is when/if the rainwater goes down a sewer line. Phil

No, that's not it. In some states ANY collection of rainwater is 100% ILLEGAL. Some even regulate the use of your well, some people can't use their well for watering anything outside, or animals.

HOTFR8 · Mar 10, 2008

Captain,

What a great idea this topic. Australia is very different to the US so this thread will open many to what we have to do in Australia.

My whole property is reliant on rain water all except for the toilets and they work via mains supply but if need be I can be 100% on rain water. We filter our drinking water and all our grey water is treated and pumped back into the garden.

Water restrictions here are very tuff and we can only water using the mains supply twice a week for an hour. If I did not have rain water or grey water I would not have any trees.

A lot of discussion has gone on here about having tanks and the water not going into the supply systems but the truth is if we did not have tanks the water goes down the drain and usualy takes polution into the local catchments.

A lot of people here also have to work with Bore water. I have considered this for the garden but as it is so dry here much of the bore water is very salty.

Captain · Mar 10, 2008

Yes HOTFR8, this is certainly a topic of much interest!

I intend to put my toilet & laundry on rainwater, as I don't have enough space for an adequately large tank to do the whole house. I'll also use rainwater exclusively outside. And as far as the garden is concerned, if plants can't keep up with a water every 2 weeks, then they shouldn't be there. (Go native).

We have the same watering restrictions at the moment, so I am pumping my shower water out on to the lawn at least to keep the dust down.
I'm quite appalled at how much grey water does go down the drain, when with a treatment system such as you have, it can safely go into the ground.
Could you give details of your grey system?
Thanks.

erda · Mar 10, 2008

There are a few of issues in domestic water use. The first is saving water-low flush toilets, low flow shower heads etc. Another is collecting and using rain water-we have 4 50 gallon rain barrels. The third is what does your yard look like and how much water does it need-we have xeriscaped our yard with some gravel, draught tolerant plants, and lots of mulch. Last summer we only had to water once from town water and only because the plants were newly planted in the spring and hadn't yet established themselves.

A bigger issue might be those beautiful green golf courses ... :shocking:

rodnok1 · Mar 10, 2008

Has anyone considered using plastic/concrete septic tanks, buried instead of the above ground tanks? They don't cost very much and they're out of the way. I'm considering it at least for yard/etc

Dustoff 35 · Mar 10, 2008

I had no experience with cistrens until we moved to Kentucky about 4 years ago. Cistrens are very common in Northern Kentucky where we live. We have a 10,000 gallon cistren that is our primary water supply. The cistren is of poured concrete, with a poured concrete top, constructed at the same time the house foundation was poured. It takes up part of what would normally be basement space.

Rainwater is collected and routed through the gutters & downspouts into the cistren. We have leafguards on our gutters to keep leaves and debris out of the cistren. A high-performance filtration system sifts out the bird & squirrel ****. Water quality is actually very good, no minerals in rainwater to leave deposits, no hard water.

We have local water services that will deliver a truckload of (city) water (appx. 2000 gallons) should you run low. Last year we bought 4 or 5 loads of water during the latter part of the summer when we had no rain.

The local water district ran a water main down our road in 2006. Water service would cost more per month (about $40 according to the neighbors) and we would have to trench a line from the road to the house, approximately a half mile.

I'll keep the cistren and hey, its the GREEN thing to do, right? :spit:

FunfDreisig · Mar 10, 2008

rodnok1 said:
Has anyone considered using plastic/concrete septic tanks, buried instead of the above ground tanks? They don't cost very much and they're out of the way. I'm considering it at least for yard/etc

One thing to remember about any tank in the ground -- they can float if they are not full. Septic tanks don't normally float because they are almost always full.

Funf Dreisig

ultgar · Mar 11, 2008

I have a house in Charlotte and water is our most expensive utility (approx 3.8 cents per gallon). I'll be putting in recirculation pumps later this year to save the water lost when taking a shower...takes about 50 seconds in our house for hot water to get down from the attic water heaters to the shower.

My wife wants rain barrels but I'm not crazy about the way they look. An in ground cistern would be a more elegant solution. SD

Dustoff 35 · Mar 11, 2008

We have a hot water recirc loop to cut down on water waste when waiting for the hot water. Just make sure you insulate the hot water line recirculation loop to reduce energy consumption from your water heater; particularly if your lines are in a cold winter attic!

FunfDreisig · Mar 11, 2008

ultgar said:
I have a house in Charlotte and water is our most expensive utility (approx 3.8 cents per gallon). I'll be putting in recirculation pumps later this year to save the water lost when taking a shower...takes about 50 seconds in our house for hot water to get down from the attic water heaters to the shower...

We have an instant-on hot water heater in the bathroom. We collect a little less than a quart of "hot" water before it is plenty hot. We capture that into an attractive pitcher* we keep on the shower window sill. We use this "wasted water" to rinse down the shower walls/floor after our showers.

BTW rain water is great for instant-on water heaters. Rain water is slightly acidic. So there is little or none of the typical mineral build up.

Funf Dreisig

* it is a pewter copy of a Willamsburg Va. pitcher used by early settlers -- which somehow we find very appropriate

kbs2244 · Mar 11, 2008

I don’t play golf. I have enough frustration in my life already.
But I have done some work at a few.
They almost always use the water from their water hazards for night time sprinkling of the fairways. Every night.
(You can get a collage degree in golf course facilities management.)
The water hazards are really just ponds that are used as open to the air rain cisterns.
I don’t know about Arizona and Palm Springs, CA though.

HOTFR8 · Mar 11, 2008

Captain said:
Yes HOTFR8, this is certainly a topic of much interest!

I intend to put my toilet & laundry on rainwater, as I don't have enough space for an adequately large tank to do the whole house. I'll also use rainwater exclusively outside. And as far as the garden is concerned, if plants can't keep up with a water every 2 weeks, then they shouldn't be there. (Go native).

99% of my place is Native trees. All drought tollerant. We mostly water the non native like a few roses etc. and vegie garden or what little we have planted due to it being so dry.

Captain said:
We have the same watering restrictions at the moment, so I am pumping my shower water out on to the lawn at least to keep the dust down.
I'm quite appalled at how much grey water does go down the drain, when with a treatment system such as you have, it can safely go into the ground.
Could you give details of your grey system?
Thanks.

I have a Bio Cycle System ( You will find many different systems on the market some water underground and some above some also have worm farms - GOOGLE them one of the best I have heard is made in South Aust ) and I am only allowed to have that as there is No Sewage connection here and I am on a large block. Council rulings are something you need to look ay before you look for something like this. Use as much Greay water as you can the way you are at present.

We also see wheelie bins set up with sump pumps now so you can save your water then pump it out where you want it, Some what of a novel but clever idea for watering.

erda said:
A bigger issue might be those beautiful green golf courses ...

Many Golf courses here in Aust as well as Hospital Gardens etc. pump grey water from the Sewage plants to keep the gardens and in fact a trial has begun at one hospital to use grey water to flush toilets.

6768rogues · Mar 11, 2008

My uncle built a new house and buried a new 1000 gallon concrete septic tank in the backyard to use for rain collection. He used the water for the toilet and for his hot water tank supply. The driest of summers did not see the tank go dry. In cold western NY, it is always about 50 degrees underground, so no problems with freezing. The reason he did it is that his previous 100 year old house had a cistern in the cellar, and they liked rain water for their hot water.
By the way, here is it illegal to use a cistern if you are connected to sanitary sewer. The bill for sewer service is based on water consumption, and every gallon of cistern water sent down the sanitary sewer is not billed. Out in the country where there is no sanitary sewer, cisterns are perfectly ok.

wenger230 · Dec 27, 2010

Melbourne rainwater tanks have been found to be contaminated with lead, aluminium and iron, with roofing material thought to be to blame.The study, by Monash University and the CSIRO, found the use of lead on some roofs had elevated the level of lead found in rainwater collected in the tanks, in some case to 50 times drinking water guidelines.

rainwatet tank

59 wagon man · Dec 28, 2010

rain water harvesting is a very good way to go green. the first flush device is a good idea to initially treat the rainwater. depending on the amount of rain u receive you may choose not to loose the amount of water they dump. you may want to look into a floating pickup for the water . as far as tanks go you can go from a 5 gal bucket to a 1,000,000 gal below ground built onsite tank.

NZMacca · Dec 28, 2010

Like Australia, here in rural New Zeland, we rely exclusively on roof collected rainwater and also on a underground bore supply. Our farm has 2 x 30,000 Litre underground concrete tanks for potable water use. The water from these two tanks is fed through (US Made) 40 and 1 micron filters before passing through a UV sterilisation system. Our shed roof runoff is collected in a 25,000 litre tank much the same way as the Captain does. Our bore supply is currently running low, but our tanks were topped up nicely yesterday during a 25mm rain event. The water for the house is crystal clear, and very cold and refreshing in summer. Come winter, we have no issues with freezing due the the tanks being insulated u/ground. All of our household wastewater is directed to a septic tank system that pumps the treated outflow to a pressurised drainage field which in turn irrigates our shelter belts on the farm.

jmh21586 · Dec 28, 2010

nissan_crawler said:
In some parts of the U.S., collecting rain water is illegal, due to it belonging to states downstream, .

So basicaly if it belongs to states downstream, could the argument be made that the rain fell in the wrong place??
Certainly not doubting you.

The law is ridiculous. You don't even get the rain that falls on your propery.
So if it soaks into your lawn are you stealing?

f-ing stupid politicians.

rvr6000 · Dec 30, 2010

They are too pricey for me but I saw a program a while back where they installed a water "pillow" under a deck for collecting rain water. Great idea and it's in an area of wasted space that can't be used for much else. There were several different sizes...I think the one they installed was about 2000 gallons. Once filled with water though it looks like a big pillow. There was an on-demand pump attached.

I'll probably be doing something to collect some of the water off the garage roof this spring. Would really like to just slam down a shallow well just for the garden and yard but where I am located I think I'd be hammering down for a long time....plus I'm sure the City would not be too keen on the idea. Have seen several ads on CL for those 250 gallon plastic totes.....can fit a couple of them behind the garage where they are out of the way but can collect all the water.

wenger230 · Feb 25, 2011

Last time I was in India and there water collecting system was like a dam.. They store it and use it in their field work , I think it's the best way to store water and for a purpose they are doing it because in some region water level is very low. So, maintain the water level water collecting system is a big help in their cases

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