Installed Liftmaster 3800, torsion shaft bent?

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

Hey all, just installed the 3800 with minimal difficulties, took a few hours because I had to balance my door first as well as shift the torsion shaft over since too much was exposed. Couple of things though:

1) Seems like the yahoos that installed my garage door did a **** job. My end bearings are rattling on the torsion shaft (it has around 1/16" slop) and the shaft is bent when the spring is under torsion (I understand this is normal). However, I spent some time studying the end brackets and found that they weren't attached to the wood strips where the track is attached. They were bolted onto the track and because of the spring force the plates have bent down. I looked at other end brackets online and it looks like there should be a flange on the plate that secures the bracket to the wall, preventing rotation.

2) Because of the bent shaft, the opener is moving around a quarter of an inch every time it's activated. It would pretty much gyrate, rotating in and out as well as up and down. I turned back the screws on the bracket half a turn which allowed the opener to move with the torsion shaft. Before, I had all the screws tightened and it looked like the bent shaft was causing uneven loading onto the opener and it was flexing some of the brackets. Now the opener is somewhat free to move with the shaft, but I've looked at other people's installations and this does not seem to occur. Are thicker walled torsion shafts available?

3) The motor hums when opening, is this normal?

4) Anyone using an extension cord with theirs (proper gauge)? My outlet is 7' away, to hardwire the opener means running conduit and cutting open drywall.

Here are some pictures:

Going to play with the force settings tomorrow and finish up all the wiring (it's temporary right now). This thing is SO QUIET!
:rocker:

Brendan

Rodhotz · Aug 13, 2012

Them are bitchen openers, my daughter had one installed and it is so quit only thing you here is the rollers on the door.Got to get one for the house and 3 for the shop when i get rich!

Cryptic1911 · Aug 13, 2012

I'd get someone who knows what they are doing to come fix the ****** install, don't mess with that yourself, those springs are under alot of pressure.

As for the sound, mine both hum a bit too, but that's how they are. Much better than the BBBBGRBRBBRBGBBGBRHGHRBRBBABGBBBGBCLANKCLANKBHBHRHRBRBRB of a normal garage door opener

Canadian Cowboy · Aug 13, 2012

The installer could have ran the wires neatly with clips or tie wraps instead of having a birds nest.
He needs brush up on his finesse skills as it is exposed and you are the paying customer.

CC

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

No, I installed th opener HAHA. I ran out of time last night to run the wiring, picking that up today.

As for the door springs, going to give them a call. Still have a new home warranty so I'm going to hope it covers the install. If not, I have the tools needed to change out the bar. In fact, I had to take the pulleys and cables off in order to move the shaft more to one side as the one end was sticking out way too much, causing a boatload of movement in the opener.

Cryptic1911 · Aug 13, 2012

Ohh haha, I thought you paid someone to install it. We went through some ******** with our installer.

Canadian Cowboy · Aug 13, 2012

[1) Seems like the yahoos that installed my garage door did a **** job./QUOTE]

Your opening post made it sound like you hired somebody to install it.

CC

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

Oh sorry, I wasn't clear, will fix that. The DOOR was installed by someone else, that's what I'm complaining about, there is a lot of flex and movement in the end bearing plates which affects the opener since it relies on a precisely adjusted door.

pattenp · Aug 13, 2012

Torsion bars come in solid or tube. The solid bars are a lot more expensive. And the opener does hum, it is not dead quiet.

djjsr · Aug 13, 2012

If that's a wide door, the torsion shaft has a center support bearing that may be out of alignment with the end bearings. It'll cause the end of the shaft to "wobble".

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

djjsr said:
If that's a wide door, the torsion shaft has a center support bearing that may be out of alignment with the end bearings. It'll cause the end of the shaft to "wobble".

It does sort of. The center plate doesn't actually have a bearing on it, nor is the shaft actually in contact with the center support, it's just for mounting the spring. I will take a picture later of the bowing.

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

A video (note the bracket isn't tightened fully):

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/fOR5i_vZzDA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's the bracket (inadequately supported IMO, and canted down at the front):

Here's the bowed out torsion bar:

Brendan

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

Never thought running bell wire neatly would take this long. :/

pattenp · Aug 13, 2012

You defiantly have some alignment to do. The bow is not good.

Burgerkong · Aug 13, 2012

I can see a couple of bearing plates that need to be replaced. If the bearing plates don't move, the shaft movement should be reduced as well. Also think I need to move the pulleys out about an inch (towards the inside of the garage), that way when the spring undergoes torsion, because the end brackets is forcing the bar in the opposite direction, the bar *should* end up straight.

Of course, this is all hypothetical. I can also get a thicker wall shaft, or spring for a solid shaft, we'll have to see what the door installers have to say.

nova65ss · Aug 14, 2012

Those are cheap bearing plates the better ones have a flange that allows you to bolt them to the jamb. Is it moving because the bracket isn't tight or because of the bent shaft? If it is the shaft it would be a good idea to replace it that will tear the opener up moving that much. It will always move a little but that is a bit much.

Burgerkong · Aug 15, 2012

nova65ss said:
Those are cheap bearing plates the better ones have a flange that allows you to bolt them to the jamb. Is it moving because the bracket isn't tight or because of the bent shaft? If it is the shaft it would be a good idea to replace it that will tear the opener up moving that much. It will always move a little but that is a bit much.

Shaft. I will investigate further. I suspect it was bent simply because the idiots installing found that to make the door operate with the center bracket on hand they had to move the end brackets in. However, I'm guessing they found that they screwed the brackets in the next hole over the shaft would foul up on the center support so they force the brackets in.

My explanation is total **** :lol_hitti

, here's a picture:

No response from the door company, but I don't have my hopes up. If they did a **** job installing and aligning, they'll do a **** job repairing.

I am wondering if they knew the shaft was bent before they put it in, or was it bent in the process of installing?

Schtauffer · Aug 15, 2012

Definitely change the bearing plates out to the kind that can be lagged into the wall and bolted to the track.

Looks like they gave the set screws all they could give-- they really egged the tube. Once the set screw touches the tube, it only takes an additional 1/2 a turn!

Burgerkong · Aug 15, 2012

This is frustrating, makes me want to start from scratch and do it right, with a center bracket that has a bearing and proper brackets. If I take the tube out, should I bend it back so it's straight again?

pattenp · Aug 15, 2012

Getting it straight will be a chore. You probably should just buy a new shaft. Any door company should sell you one.

Burgerkong said:
This is frustrating, makes me want to start from scratch and do it right, with a center bracket that has a bearing and proper brackets. If I take the tube out, should I bend it back so it's straight again?

Burgerkong · Aug 16, 2012

Here's the rest of the install pictures:

Brendan

Burgerkong · Aug 17, 2012

Forgot to mention, I disassembled the wireless light and took the wireless receiver out. Planning to stick it in an outlet box and hook it up to a fluorescent fixture, let you guys know how effective it is.

Bar Ditch · Aug 17, 2012

You need to replace the shaft. If it is bent it can cause premature failure and the posibility of snapping the bearing plate bolts. The bearing plate should not only be tied into the track but the wall as well with lags IMHO. At the very least you need to get ahold of there manager and explain to him the problems and horrible (I've seen worse but this ranks up there) installation that the installer did. How in the hell you misplace a pulley and then tighten it and then move over is beyond me. But it looks like whoever installed has not been doing this long enough or just doesn't give a ****. Good luck.

nova65ss · Aug 17, 2012

Bar Ditch said:
You need to replace the shaft. If it is bent it can cause premature failure and the posibility of snapping the bearing plate bolts. The bearing plate should not only be tied into the track but the wall as well with lags IMHO. At the very least you need to get ahold of there manager and explain to him the problems and horrible (I've seen worse but this ranks up there) installation that the installer did. How in the hell you misplace a pulley and then tighten it and then move over is beyond me. But it looks like whoever installed has not been doing this long enough or just doesn't give a ****. Good luck.

It appears to me this is an older door that has likely had the springs replaced which is why the dimples in the shaft are visible we will often times move it over to not need to deal with the shaft in that bent up area. I do agree though the shaft should be replaced.

On a side not what kind of garage door is that with wooden end stiles? Almost looks home made?mDoes it have a name on it anywhere?

Bar Ditch · Aug 17, 2012

nova65ss said:
It appears to me this is an older door that has likely had the springs replaced which is why the dimples in the shaft are visible we will often times move it over to not need to deal with the shaft in that bent up area. I do agree though the shaft should be replaced.

On a side not what kind of garage door is that with wooden end stiles? Almost looks home made?mDoes it have a name on it anywhere?

That makes sense. I was under the impression that this was a new install and the installer tightened the drums down before getting his shaft centered and his spring wound.

Burgerkong · Aug 17, 2012

No this is a new door. The dimples were from the original location the pulleys were in, I had to shift the shaft over 4 inches because there was way too much shaft overhanging on the side where the opener was to be located. This way I was able to get the opener to mount on the wood jambs on the side. In addition, I saw that the problem with the bent shaft could be minimized if I left less shaft exposed at the end which causes less movement than a longer shaft.

I have no idea who makes the doors, I only know the company that installed them (this is on a new home), and according to their website they use Wayne Dalton, Doorlink and Jeld-Wen. It does look like a Wayne Dalton, but I have no idea really. I suspect that this could be a custom affair however:

Westwood Garage Doors has been the premier designer, manufacturer and distributor of overhead doors throughout Southern Ontario since 1987. We offer a complete line of attractive and long lasting doors and accessories to suit every home and every budget. Our friendly sales staff will help you choose the door that fits your home best. From our in house hand crafted mahogany doors to our product lines from industry leaders like Jeld-Wen and Wayne Dalton we will make sure you get the right door and we will stand behind it. Call or stop in at our 40,000 square foot facility and we will take the time to make sure you understand the value of each door and feel good about your choice.

I emailed the girl in charge of warranty issues with my new home, as well as the door installers (never met them, the door was installed before I closed the house).

Brendan

Texas Lawman · Aug 18, 2012

I have been following the progress with your garage opener. It caught my attention because I have been (very slowly) remodeling my garage. The first step was replacing the crappy garage doors (19 years old). I had a client who is in the garage door business and owed me some money so we cut a deal. He replaced both garage doors and installed high lift kits on both. He also installed two Liftmaster torsion shaft garage door openers like yours.

I don't know if it will help you or not, but I took some pictures of the final result for you to compare to yours. I also took a video of the opener in operation so you can compare the sounds and movement.

I don't know an easy way to post the video, but I will try and attach the photos. Should I fail, (and that is a real possibility), just drop me an email to [email protected] and I will send them to you directly along with the video.

Good Luck,

Manuel

barks · Aug 18, 2012

The brackets must be tied to the wall to prevent movement.
Can you add an "L" to tie the bracket to the wall above the pulley?

wbrian63 · Aug 20, 2012

There's a chain-drive kit for the Liftmaster that will allow you to mitigate the effects of a less-than-straight torsion shaft. Here's an example - they're available cheaper than this if you do some searching:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/480LM-Alter...7?pt=Garage_Doors_Openers&hash=item27c37a4b0b

I used this on my LM3800 install at my workshop. The shaft was bent, probably because of an over-tightened set screw on the hub. The opener moved a lot before I added the offset drive - now it doesn't move at all. Only thing I had to do was adjust the position of the opener after a few weeks to compensate for some chain stretch (and probably because I didn't get it installed exactly right the first time).

Burgerkong · Oct 26, 2012

Update, bad news. The garage door company folded, guess that's why doing **** work is bad for business. So yeah, I'm SOL.

Installed Liftmaster 3800, torsion shaft bent?

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