Restoring the triplets of Belleville

NASTYZEN · Sep 20, 2012

Wow! They finally left my shop on Monday. This was one of those long drawn out projects.
A customer friend of mine from Belleville ont. Asked me to restore his 3 Lola T-360 seventies formula Atlantic tubs back in 2009. To which I agreed blindly. :lol:

I made it clear that I have one main customer, to whom it is imperative that I deliver stuff to on time, no matter what, and that his project would be a side job.
He agreed as he has a complete T-360 to play with and runs other cars in different series.
With that I drove down to pick them up at his warehouse.

This is one of the tubs next to his working car.

The triplets when they landed in my shop in 09.
Boy were they rough!

Before I get into the restore, here is some of the previous work I did on his working T-360. Over the years.

Ignition box reproduction. It gets bolted to the valve cover.

Re worked the rear and re brazed the whole thing.

On critical stuff like roll bar braces, I tig weld under the brazing first. Just to be sure.

Catch tank, oil tank and wing/header mount.

Nose frame/rad mount. Made a jig for it as it is a crush able replacement part.

At play. At watkins Glen

Much more to come as I get the time to up load.

:beer:

Piper · Sep 20, 2012

umm wow!! Belleville Ontario?! My mom lives in Belleville!! (well Big Island which is really close). I live in Huntsville Ont... how do I get to work with you?? this is awesome work, and frankly, the world seems a bit smaller hearing about your work, and our proximity.

Without doubt, very nice job!

Nealcrenshaw · Sep 20, 2012

Looking forward to more!

racingtadpole · Sep 20, 2012

Its always a pleasure watching a master of his trade ply his craft. Looking forward to seeing more Claude.

38D · Sep 21, 2012

Very cool. I bet those are a blast up the esses at the Glen!

upndown · Sep 21, 2012

Nasty, As always..Interesting project! Looks like an expensive hobby. Have always enjoyed older formula cars..growing up a couple buddys Dads raced formula vee and formula ford, our playground was Road America. Looking forward to more... :beer:

NASTYZEN · Sep 21, 2012

Thanks for the kind words guys.
Glad you enjoy this type of stuff. I certainly do.
I merely work on these. I can't afford to race myself, besides ,she would have a fit if I were to have one for myself. :sad:

These Lola's are capable of about 180 mph! On any track with one of these on slicks must be ridiculously fun indeed!
Maybe when I retire I can go vintage racing with the old boys. I have a fetish with open wheel cars but probably would end up in a Mini or Sprite.
We are all living on spaceship Earth.That makes us all neighbors.

sberry · Sep 21, 2012

I can sympathize with getting long term projects out the door, been there, done that and try to keep it to a minimum.

racingtadpole · Sep 23, 2012

NASTYZEN said:
but probably would end up in a Mini or Sprite.

BMC A Series stuff :wtf:

You're glutton for punishment!!

I got rid of my A series tin-top for an open wheeler (with a lengthy sabatical in between). Eventually sanity will return and I'll find my way to a formula that isnt powered by an aircooled flat 4..... :lol:

JC23 · Sep 24, 2012

Have always dug yer posts and high level of craftsmanship. Never heard of brazing over TIG. Can you elaborate some?

thundermug · Sep 24, 2012

Incredible work.

MoonRise · Sep 24, 2012

JC23 said:
Have always dug yer posts and high level of craftsmanship. Never heard of brazing over TIG. Can you elaborate some?

I suspect that he is TIG welding (for strength) and then 'cosmetically' flowing some brazing rod over the joint(s) to make it all look 'period correct'.

Although a good brazing job can be plenty strong (given proper joint prep and layout and the appropriate filler), welding steel together may give you a tiny bit more leeway for fit-up and will usually give you better fatigue-strength properties than a typical copper-based brazing filler.

YMMV. :beer:

NASTYZEN · Sep 25, 2012

JC23 said:
Have always dug yer posts and high level of craftsmanship. Never heard of brazing over TIG. Can you elaborate some?

Thanks JC, I enjoy your high level of art craftsmanship. I can barely draw a strait line myself.
As for the brazing over t.i.g. Moonrize verbalized it well.
Bronze is ductile and will bend along as a tubular joint is deformed.
I've seen brazed joints all stretched out of shape after a crash but still holding on, with no cracks. But
I've come across some bronze welds that completely detached themselves from one tube. In one particular case it was on a 1600 FF that had slammed sideways into the tires. The weld detached and the tube came into the cockpit and injured the driver a little. His name was Greg Moore 16 years old and a great person. R.I.P.

thundermug said:
Incredible work.

Thanks

I found some old pics of the rear wing and mount.

This wing is not conventional on the insides and was pita to put together.

So back to the triplets.
First thing was to asses and to do that, I had to take the things apart.
The red one.

Oh my!

NASTYZEN · Oct 30, 2012

After I took off the left hand pod and looked inside,I had a chuckle.
I will often leave a memento somewhere inside the projects I work on. My way of finding immortality sort of.
Turns out I had worked on this tub before.Funny coincidence. I guess these cars change hands often.

After much drilling out rivets. I was left with all the metal bits to be restored.
All the Alu. panels are scrap and need to be refabed.

Man, these cars have been to war!

After taking them apart, I found that the orange one had some discrepancies with the other 2 Tubs and also had different A-arm pickup points.
All three have to be the same so all the parts can be interchangeable as per request from the customer.

The white Tub had just been restored.......very poorly.
Check out the fine craftsmanship here.

Just a small gap.

Next. We start rebuilding.

:beer:

TeckniX · Oct 30, 2012

Sub'd this is pretty epic - There's actually quite a few builders/fabricators that do leave their signature hidden inside a project, it's probably more fun to find your own though. haha

AeroNautiCal · Oct 30, 2012

Your fabrication skills and attention to detail are outstanding!

NASTYZEN · Dec 19, 2012

Been a while. Hard to stay on top of things these days.
So here are some shots of the steel inards after many hours.

Made the first of many dies to form that end plate.
Moded the Orange cars pick up points to match the Quakerstate car.

Some of the outside bits.
Top trailing link pickup.

Shock pickups.

Next to do.
Get some tubs bent up so as to be able to match the roll bar structures as closely as possible.

:beer:

SiGmA_X · Dec 30, 2012

I love your threads. I hope to see the rest of this when you have time!

NASTYZEN · Jan 5, 2013

SiGmA_X said:
I love your threads. I hope to see the rest of this when you have time!

I'm glad someone is enjoying this. Here is a little more.

My brake is a little under capacity so I had the tubs and side pods bent up by a friend.
First I patched up the old rollbars a little. then re fit them to the new tubs.

I had to make some new anchor plates to have a proper fit. First placing them on the tub and then tacking them to the main bar.

Replaced tubes here and there along the way.

Started fitting some other bits as well. Here , the steering rack brkt's.

Once I was satisfied with the fit, it was time to make the holes and dimples in the tubs.
For the dimples, I had to make a custom die.

Applying the dimple in my press.

The result.

Lots of bits to yet reproduce and repair.

CNGsaves · Jan 5, 2013

Nice work you're doing on those Lola's!!

Curious where all they race now??

Here in KS used to have SCCA races around small lake called Lake Afton and classes went all the way up to Formula Atlantic and Formula Continental . . . man were they fast. Saw one bad wreck at 135 mph where guy got tire off the track and went airborn!! Back in 70's and 80's, even had one of pizza franchise owners (Dan Carney) racing a closed body Lola and had stiff competition from 65 yr old bank owner named Jack Hinkle, which was highlight race of the year. Now all races are at Heartland in Topeka, KS.

Love seeing work "under the hood" so keep pics a coming!

Jose G · Jan 5, 2013

i really enjoy reading your threads too, make me understand what is involved in your work and how you make things.

Wish i had 10% of your skill lol

NASTYZEN · Jan 27, 2013

Thx's guys.
These cars still race at vintage events all over the place. Check with your local clubs.

Ok, so at this point, after having gotten the bars to fit in all three tubs. It was time to get the front bulkhead panel worked out. It holds the front of the tub together straight. the other panels depend on this to be placed correctly.

I made a drawing of the part and cut it out with my cnc mill. This is great when you need an extra parts because you screwed up one.

From the same drawing I made some tooling to dimple the bulkhead panel.

Part loaded.

A little pressure.

Now for the round dimples.

I even had to make some custom v dies.

The part done.

aggierailroad · Jan 28, 2013

Really like the MDF dimple tool. Sure beats a hammer and dolly...

RivennHewn · Jan 28, 2013

How large of a press/jack do you need for that, and what gauge material is it?

NASTYZEN · Jan 28, 2013

RivennHewn said:
How large of a press/jack do you need for that, and what gauge material is it?

10 Ton should be adequate. The important thing is to distribute the load evenly.
The bulkhead is .045'' thick 6061 T-4 material.
I made 5 or so parts with the mdf dies. I could still get a few more parts out of it.

NASTYZEN · Feb 21, 2013

Now that the front panel is made up, the steel inserts can be fitted. As well as the inner rib bulkhead.

I also had the side skins bent out of shop by a friend.

After some fitting and layout. Time to make some holes.

One slip with this thing and it's game over!!

The trick is to take your time and go little by little.

I use a Blue point auto center punch to first make a punch mark for all the rivet holes. Drill tracks are unacceptable here.

A bit closer.

Sides done!

The rear all fits ok. Time for brazing.

ZeroDrift · Feb 21, 2013

Looks amazing! Very much impressed with the skill level to restore a chassis like that!

NASTYZEN · Mar 10, 2013

So now it was time to make some battery boxes alias mid tub panels.
After figuring out the pattern I cut out some panels.

After much fiddling and fancy bending, we have something that fits!

Some drivers step on these while getting in. So I added some re enforcing angles on the underside to add a bit of stiffness to the panel.

I even got some help with the second car.

With both of the mid panels fit. Time for the back panel with access hole for the gas lines and accumulator.

She tells me I spend to much time in the shop. :dunno:

I wonder what she's talking about.

All fit up.

Graham08 · Mar 11, 2013

Very cool! I've only seen a handful of pictures of aluminum monocoques under construction, so the detailed photos of the process are very much appreciated.

One question on the rear wings: are the riveted with solid rivets or pop rivets?

NASTYZEN · Mar 11, 2013

Graham08 said:
One question on the rear wings: are the riveted with solid rivets or pop rivets?

All pop rivet. There is no access to buck solid rivets from behind.
I do use countersunk solid rivets on the trailing edge of other wigs.
This one has a folded one.

MP&C · Mar 11, 2013

Nice work Claude! Who is the apprentice?

NASTYZEN · Mar 11, 2013

MP&C said:
Nice work Claude! Who is the apprentice?

Thank's Robert,
The apprentice is my 16 year old. He's finishing up high school and going on to college for 7 years to become an engineer. That means I have a part time employee for at least that long. :thumbup:

He is a real pleasure to work with and eager to learn. I have been blessed with at least one who likes to tinker with Dad.

MP&C · Mar 12, 2013

It will be good for him to have that practical application under his belt before cramming all the books.. My apprentice is 11........ I figure I have only a couple years left before dirty fingernails will bother her.. :lol_hitti

ClickClickBoom · Mar 12, 2013

When you make custom tooling like that for a project, does it go to the car owner, or do you keep it for a future job?

Just curious. Awesome work.

NASTYZEN · Mar 12, 2013

MP&C said:
It will be good for him to have that practical application under his belt before cramming all the books.. My apprentice is 11........ I figure I have only a couple years left before dirty fingernails will bother her..

I can only hope that he can translate and apply his experiences with real hands on work to his engineering in the future.
I work with so many engineers that have no f#%?&*! clue!! I bet half of them have never even turned a wrench.....
Your 11 year old may surprise you later on. If she's interested now she just may take over your shop in the future. Great to see some women in this industry!!

btw Robert. I ran across your picture of a close encounter with an oil drum the other day... Holy crispy ****** bat man!! Of all the people on this web site for something like that to happen to??? WTF??Robert?? You should of known better. Sorry you had to go through that ordeal, Glad it didn't take your head off! Almost looks like you had a rocket launch from your chest.
Seems there's at least one poor guy who meets his end with drums year after year. If your experience can save someone from putting a torch to a drum and avoiding death or injury, at least your pain will of been of some use.
Boy, that looks like it was painful!! Hope your recovering well.

Claude

NASTYZEN · Mar 12, 2013

ClickClickBoom said:
When you make custom tooling like that for a project, does it go to the car owner, or do you keep it for a future job?

Just curious. Awesome work.

Thanks for the kind words.
I always keep the tooling and fixturing I make for this kind of project. If I do end up using the tooling again, I will ask the customer for permission first.

MP&C · Mar 13, 2013

NASTYZEN said:
btw Robert. I ran across your picture of a close encounter with an oil drum the other day... Holy crispy ****** bat man!! Of all the people on this web site for something like that to happen to??? WTF??Robert?? You should of known better. Claude

You're right, and I am normally a stickler for safety issues. I had someone mention he used a cutting torch all the time to remove the lids.... and I was in the middle of a car project with the owner breathing down my neck almost daily. That combined for just enough of a lapse in judgement and the next thing you know I was going for a helicopter ride. Yeah, the first thing I did when I got home was to snap some pictures in hopes to save someone a similar or worse fate. I think the worst thing was the liquid Dial scrub bath.

NASTYZEN · Mar 19, 2013

Now, there was still the front toe box cover to cut out and form. I had to make yet another Dimple Die.
Bottom.

Top. With guide pins to keep both dies centered.

Part is held in position with tape.

A little squeeze.

It's nice when you can pull the part out easily without damaging it.

And now the dash board cover.

Creative bending and fitting (sweat!!)Phuew!

The customer wanted tight joints all over.

The dash board.

In place.

This ones for JC :lol:

neonnblack · Mar 20, 2013

Always like watching your builds, zen.

Man the drum thing, we are building some things out of some drums and i came home one day and saw that my dad had cut one open. (race fuel drum) asked how he did it, just the grinder he says. All that came out of my mouth was" fuuuuuck".

racingtadpole · Mar 21, 2013

NASTYZEN said:
One slip with this thing and it's game over!!

I use a router plate and 1/8" router bit in a Dremel for that sort of stuff. The thick craft cardboard makes a nice easily cut template material for the dremel to guide on (although beer boxes work too if thats all you happen to have

)
Leaves a really nice edge and is easy to control.

Restoring the triplets of Belleville

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