I want to put ribbed steel on the walls/ceiling of my 40x56 polebarn. The problem is I cant square it off because of the 5 2x6 crossmembers on each side. I noticed some garages have them and some dont. Could I get by without them? It will be a real pain to try and tin around them.
Do I really need these roof supports?
- Thread starter svt514
- Start date
500sks
Well-known member
Pole buildings are not overbuilt. I would not remove them.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
They are there for a reason, leave them in. You could cover them up with a 45 degree angle piece of tin at the junction between the walls and ceiling.
Nice looking insulation job, by the way.
Nice looking insulation job, by the way.
Zeke
Well-known member
I notice they are on the trusses on the poles. I don't think you want to mess with those. How's your off-floor storage? You could come off the wall with a soffit open for storage. Or with cabinet doors. For me, that would ideal. I'd even find room for a rolling ladder!
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
If i was going to tin around them I would leave maybe a 6x6 opening in the siding at each one and then come back with a tight fitting patch panel.
i think that would easier to get it to look like something.
i think that would easier to get it to look like something.
pattenp
Well-known member
The bracing is for wind load and possible lifting from wind. The bracing connects the roof directly to the post. Are you in a windy part of the country? A lot of pole barns don't have that type bracing. You could ask an engineer if the bracing could be replaced with metal tiedown straps.
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
those look like old trusses with plywood gussets.
I don't think thats done much anymore, why not just get a engineer to look at them and see if they can be removed
I don't think thats done much anymore, why not just get a engineer to look at them and see if they can be removed
pattenp
Well-known member
Here some info on knee bracing you need to read....
Based on this info, I'd remove them.
http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/01/post-frame-construction-knee-braces/
Based on this info, I'd remove them.
http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/01/post-frame-construction-knee-braces/
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bczygan
Well-known member
Those create a triangle at the column to truss connection. If you look at the other direction, there are similar braces triangulating the connection on each side of each column. Triangulation adds strength at the joint and keeps it from acting like a hinge. It helps transfer loads from the roof to the columns. There are probably methods that could be used to strengthen the joint and transfer loads, but you would have to get specific methods from the building builder or consult an engineer. I would not box them in, but leave them exposed by sheeting around them.
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Bluepine
Well-known member
I removed the knee braces from my building more than 15 years ago. I live in northern Minnesota and at times have a lot of snow on the roof (until it slides off) and have had no problems at all. All of my trusses are notched into the poles and have 60 penny pole barn nails securing them in place.
Mickey O
Well-known member
Cut them out, toss a load on the roof, if the building collapses then you needed them.
I'm not sure what pieces you're specifically talking about but if you have to ask contact an engineer before removing anything.
I'm not sure what pieces you're specifically talking about but if you have to ask contact an engineer before removing anything.
jaker10
Well-known member
My building, built in 3/12 had them in the plans. I asked builder if they had to be there and he said NO. Plans went to the engineer, he said OK. Plans went to zoning and they approved the plans. My trusses are bolted to the 6x6 posts. Posts are cut so the trusse sits on the side 2x6 of the 3 2x6's that makes up the post. I hope that makes sense.
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cyamaha2007
Well-known member
In school they told us that it add little to no strength. From what i was taught the sheeting replaces the need for them. I dont know if you have installed hurricane clips/ straps. If not add some they increase the strength of the building greatly. It creates a continuous load path the the foundation. Id cut them out and not think twice. Good luck
Here some info on knee bracing you need to read....
Based on this info, I'd remove them.
http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/01/post-frame-construction-knee-braces/
Yes, knee braces. Thanks for the correct term.
So from what I gathered is that the braces are mainly just used to stiffen the frame during the building process before the tin is installed. After the building is finished they do not serve a lot of purpose. That sound right?
bob15
Well-known member
No, you are incorrect.
They were put there for a purpose. Do you really think they want to add more to the cost of building a truss because they add items that aren't necessary?
Go to page 24:
http://www.sbcindustry.com/images/publication_images/pbrace.pdf
More reading:
http://www.2doworld.com/structural-engineering/truss-erecting-and-bracing.html
Go to page 37:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29750872/Post-Frame-Building-Design-Manual
Basically, if it was designed with bracing, you need the bracing. Work around it. No different than why they put the truss spacing at "X" inches apart, instead of "Y" inches apart.
bob
They were put there for a purpose. Do you really think they want to add more to the cost of building a truss because they add items that aren't necessary?
Go to page 24:
http://www.sbcindustry.com/images/publication_images/pbrace.pdf
More reading:
http://www.2doworld.com/structural-engineering/truss-erecting-and-bracing.html
Go to page 37:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29750872/Post-Frame-Building-Design-Manual
Basically, if it was designed with bracing, you need the bracing. Work around it. No different than why they put the truss spacing at "X" inches apart, instead of "Y" inches apart.
bob
ddawg16
Well-known member
Bob15....thanks for posting accurate information.......I was getting concerned with some of the comments....talk about bad advice......
To the OP....svt......instead of trying work around that area....take advantage of it....make into a soffet so you can run wire and airlines through it....do it right and you would have a nice easy way to hid and protect your wireing...but have an easy way to make changes....
To the OP....svt......instead of trying work around that area....take advantage of it....make into a soffet so you can run wire and airlines through it....do it right and you would have a nice easy way to hid and protect your wireing...but have an easy way to make changes....
fury9
Well-known member
X2! My thoughts exactly
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
They had extra lumber laying around that they wanted to use up and the carpenters didn't mind working an extra 4 hours for free ...
bob15
Well-known member
You hit the nail on the head!
Easiest way is to put flat patch panel above each diagonal brace, then J-mold straight
out from top plate, wrapping diagonal brace at ceiling level. Rip starter run of ceiling
metal to point where diagonal brace intersects with bottom chord of truss. These 8'
plus or minus sheets will be the easiest ones in the building to hang. You could paint
the braces before hanging your ceiling and they will not be noticeable after a while.
out from top plate, wrapping diagonal brace at ceiling level. Rip starter run of ceiling
metal to point where diagonal brace intersects with bottom chord of truss. These 8'
plus or minus sheets will be the easiest ones in the building to hang. You could paint
the braces before hanging your ceiling and they will not be noticeable after a while.
darkk
Well-known member
My answer would be to call the manufacturer of the building and ask if they can be removed safely...
Zeke
Well-known member
Rereading and looking as hard as I can at a not-so-good pic, I see the braces are nearly parallel to the top chord of the truss. Therefore, they really aren't doing much. I might cut them flush if it were mine.
But I'd still run shelving around the top, so it's a moot point for me.
But I'd still run shelving around the top, so it's a moot point for me.
Rust
Banned
Best answer yet.
Regards to the first linked article, he states knee braces add very little and can cause extra load on the truss. Im not saying I dont believe Im just not seeing it. I dont see how sheathing can compare to a knee brace on for instance a long tall wall under wind load.
383
Well-known member
The knee braces stiffen the building from wind side loads. If the endwalls are sheated solid, the braces could be taken out if a rigid ceiling is installed, depending on the length of the building. The ceiling will help to stiffen the roof system, and transfer the side loading to the endwalls instead of the sidewall posts, as the knee braces are doing now. If the building has large doors or openings in the endwalls, the knee braces shouldn't be removed.
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RVDan
Well-known member
Those don't do anything except prevent the building from leaning over into a parallelogram, cut them out, let the building lean. 
Exactly. Go back to the engineer who sealed the drawing and ask if the knee braces were there just to facilitate erection or if they are still necessary.
rburke65
Well-known member
I have these on my 32x40 pole building. The trusses are 32', quit large, but are on 8' centers. I would love to remove mine.
This was built probably 25yrs ago by the previous owner.I have no idea who built it.
stingry
Well-known member
Engineer?? There was no engineer involved! The plywood gusset plates are the clue. Those are clearly on site built trusses built by someone that did not know a lot about building trusses and added the knee braces for additional support. Do you need them, don't know, but I would leave them.
Cheers
Steve
Highbeam
Well-known member
Absolutely leave them. The braces may have been installed to make the structure sound. Removing them weakens the structure. They can be decorative of course but unless you can verify that they are decoratvie then you must assume that they are required to prevent catastrophic building collapse.
My barn has them and they are absolutely required for strngth of the building. I tried to get the engineer to remove them but the tradeoff would have been much much larger poles to take the much larger bending moment when the wind tries to bend the building over.
Here's a pic of mine. Structural. Resist both compresion and tension. The number of nails at each joint was even calculated.
My barn has them and they are absolutely required for strngth of the building. I tried to get the engineer to remove them but the tradeoff would have been much much larger poles to take the much larger bending moment when the wind tries to bend the building over.
Here's a pic of mine. Structural. Resist both compresion and tension. The number of nails at each joint was even calculated.
Attachments
3PedalMINI
Well-known member
I like it!!! Gives some depth and character. Not to mention some awesome places to add lighting from that "angle"
Did you have the whole thing spray foamed?
Did you have the whole thing spray foamed?
