Before you buy a Chinese generator:

Mike007 · Nov 8, 2012

I'm in the hvac business. Due to Sandy, there were 1000's of chinese made generators sold. They all look the same with different name brands on them. There were a lot of disappointed people when I had to tell them their new generator will not run modern heating equipment or water heaters which uses the ground for flame detection. It was the same conversation over and over.

I didn't dig too deep into it, but I did notice for some reason when I check the power at the generator they only read 70-80 volts from hot to ground. It's either that or the power is just dirty. Any of the known brands run the equipment fine, Generac, Honda, Homelite etc. Something you might want to keep in mind.

JC23 · Nov 8, 2012

Thanks fer the tip, Mike.

I had heard gens can't really run computers cuz of dirty power...

Burtonrider10022 · Nov 8, 2012

Did you try using a line filter/power conditioner at all?

cre73 · Nov 8, 2012

Very interesting, I have a champion generator that I purchased for our RV 5 years ago and it has been a life saver ever since. Rarely gets used for the RV but does see alot of use around the house during power outages with no issues.

info2x · Nov 8, 2012

Damn. Talk about some really poor quality.

I wonder what my parents are running.

Mike007 · Nov 8, 2012

Burtonrider10022 said:
Did you try using a line filter/power conditioner at all?

No. I didn't have the time or desire to try and fix the problem. Some customers plugged the equipment into a neighbors gen, some managed to find a new gen which worked, and some just went without heat.

tdkkart · Nov 8, 2012

Hmmm?? I have a 4 year old WEN generator with a 13HP chicom engine and generator, works fine powering my furnace(also 4 years old) and anything else I've used it for.

Mike007 · Nov 8, 2012

tdkkart said:
Hmmm?? I have a 4 year old WEN generator with a 13HP chicom engine and generator, works fine powering my furnace(also 4 years old) and anything else I've used it for.

I didn't say all chinese generators. Some Generac are made in China but will run anything. These generators seem to have been all made in the same place as they are very similar but are branded different. They all have 12 volt lugs amongst other common features. I should have made note of the branding.

Mickey O · Nov 8, 2012

But aren't the Chinese generators cheaper?

58Yeoman · Nov 8, 2012

I've used my HF 6500 a number of times to run the house when the power went out; no problems yet, but I still have an old propane furnace. It runs the furnace, a/c, puters, well pump, etc.

I lose power when a large flock of birds fly overhead. Thanks, Ameren...

Murphy4570 · Nov 8, 2012

My parents bought a Generac brand generator due to Sandy, then never used it lol. Seems to be decently built. Looks like a chinese knockoff of a Honda design. Not much amperage output on the thing though, only has a 30 amp or 3500 watt rating. Enough to run a couple refrigerators and some lights I suppose.

MadMechMaster · Nov 8, 2012

I'll have to check mine for the proper grounding.

I do know that only one 110 leg of the 220 circuit is used for regulation on the cheap ones. If you are using a generator cord, or if it has the a quad outlet for 110, and a significant load is placed on the un-regulated side, the voltage drops.

SuperSocket · Nov 8, 2012

JC23 said:
Thanks fer the tip, Mike.

I had heard gens can't really run computers cuz of dirty power...

This is not accurate btw. All data centers are large computing facilities have generators as backup power sources... they are cleaner than the utility production. In fact, they are so reliable and clean compared to utility that we in the industry refer to as utility as "economical power" and generators as "primary source power".

Dirty power is an issue with much much smaller units, but modern electronics can take it pretty good. I have run plenty of computers on little pull squeeler generators and also a few hundred systems on a small/medium trailer generator.

The off-brand Chinese generator issue is something to stay away from because from the sounds of it, the power is very dirty and you'll probably be replacing power supplies and boards frequently.

JF5000 · Nov 8, 2012

Hey guys there's a note on this generator......

會意/会意 (Thank you honorable American sucker) 象形 (like new generator?) 形聲/形声 (hope it works longer for you) 轉注/转注 (than North Korean cousin) 假借 (No returns) 指事象形 (hope not freeze *** off too bad)

TireTracks · Nov 8, 2012

JC23 said:
Thanks fer the tip, Mike.

I had heard gens can't really run computers cuz of dirty power...

Actualy Power produced by a High quality generator is pretty good.

example- My uncle's brother brought a 45" LCD tv, Dish tv box and a motorized satilite reciver to my aunt and uncles cabin for 2 weeks this year, and we ran it off a early 80's Honda 2500w generator. Interestingly enough, the smaller 13" tube tv they used to use( last year), did not like the power produced by a older 1000w honda inverter generator. Used to run radio's and a small older tv off a 70's( mabey older) B&S 1500w.

Mike007 · Nov 8, 2012

Mickey O said:
But aren't the Chinese generators cheaper?

The first one I came across was a boiler I installed for a lady. When I installed it, she had me power it with a receptacle and appliance cord so in the event of a power outage she could just unplug it and plug it in a generator.

She was angry it wouldn't work and said I must have done something wrong. I went and looked at the generator. It was a tiny chinese 2500 watt she paid $89 at a grocery store. :lol:

She didn't want to hear anything. Her neighbor is an HVAC guy and he told her it's not the generator.

2 days later she called an apologized, said her nephew brought her another gen and the boiler fired right up.

chris142 · Nov 8, 2012

I have noticed that often you need to turn up the RPM on them to get the correct voltage. This is easily done by turning a screw. I have over 300 hrs on the little 900W HF unit and I'm very impressed with it....After turning the RPM up enough to achieve 120V.

As delivered it put out 103V.

I would never think of using it for a computer. It will run my mom's Oxygen generator(I have bottles of Oxygen for backup as well as a 2nd Generator)and the refrigerator at the same time!

Mickey O · Nov 8, 2012

TireTracks said:
Actualy Power produced by a High quality generator is pretty good.

example- My uncle's brother brought a 45" LCD tv, Dish tv box and a motorized satilite reciver to my aunt and uncles cabin for 2 weeks this year, and we ran it off a early 80's Honda 2500w generator. Interestingly enough, the smaller 13" tube tv they used to use( last year), did not like the power produced by a older 1000w honda inverter generator. Used to run radio's and a small older tv off a 70's( mabey older) B&S 1500w.

Newer one might be a true sine wave versus a modified square wave.

Mickey O · Nov 8, 2012

Mike007 said:
The first one I came across was a boiler I installed for a lady. When I installed it, she had me power it with a receptacle and appliance cord so in the event of a power outage she could just unplug it and plug it in a generator.

She was angry it wouldn't work and said I must have done something wrong. I went and looked at the generator. It was a tiny chinese 2500 watt she paid $89 at a grocery store.

She didn't want to hear anything. Her neighbor is an HVAC guy and he told her it's not the generator.
2 days later she called an apologized, said her nephew brought her another gen and the boiler fired right up.

As luck would have it both my generators are USA made so I don't have any problems.

Mike007 · Nov 8, 2012

chris142 said:
I have noticed that often you need to turn up the RPM on them to get the correct voltage. This is easily done by turning a screw. I have over 300 hrs on the little 900W HF unit and I'm very impressed with it....After turning the RPM up enough to achieve 120V.

As delivered it put out 103V.

I would never think of using it for a computer. It will run my mom's Oxygen generator(I have bottles of Oxygen for backup as well as a 2nd Generator)and the refrigerator at the same time!

Voltage wasn't an issue with the one I actually looked at. It was 120 +/- hot to neutral and 70-80 hot to ground.

SalA · Nov 8, 2012

SuperSocket said:
This is not accurate btw. All data centers are large computing facilities have generators as backup power sources... they are cleaner than the utility production. In fact, they are so reliable and clean compared to utility that we in the industry refer to as utility as "economical power" and generators as "primary source power".

Dirty power is an issue with much much smaller units, but modern electronics can take it pretty good. I have run plenty of computers on little pull squeeler generators and also a few hundred systems on a small/medium trailer generator.

The off-brand Chinese generator issue is something to stay away from because from the sounds of it, the power is very dirty and you'll probably be replacing power supplies and boards frequently.

I would like to add 1 important point to this comment....Most if not all Computer Data Centers, Large Radio & TV Stations all have backup generators..but also have Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) Systems. UPS systems are really an array of batteries governed by monitoring circuitry that always conditions both utility and generator power whatever the source. Both sources have a tendency to cause electronic equipment not to run properly due to spikes surges in power.

If you use a non-inverter type portable generator (which I believe is built to run electronic equipment cleaner), then I would buy a APC or some other brand UPS that you can buy in staples for about $100. That would be plugged into your Gen and should work fine for your desktop, Laptops run on their internal batteries with circuitry in the AC charger that monitors the power source.

elementip · Nov 8, 2012

Also worth mentioning that many laptop and PC power supplies can run just fine from 90~260VAC.

Under/over voltage isn't a serious issue with many modern switch mode power supplies.

MoparTrucks · Nov 8, 2012

When I bought my generator I was looking for a 7500 or preferably 5500 and there were no portables made in the US that I could find of that size. All of the major brands I looked at in that size had Chinese engines including Generac so I bought a Honeywell that was on sale and after 3 years and a lot of use so far so good. I have had no trouble running the computer and TV etc and my furnace is an outside wood boiler so I am just running the furnace blower and a Bell Gosset circulation pump.

But I do have a question for Mike, we are just getting hooked up to a small community sewer system that requires us to have a small tank with a submerged macerater and lift pump and its being outfitted with a transfer switch so it can be hooked up to a generator and pumped a couple times a week if the power is out (we have had 2 week long power outages). Do you think our existing generator has clean enough power for something like that or will we need some kind of line conditioner? The pump and macerater doesnt draw much power but it does have electronic circuitry that it would **** to fry. Pooping in a bucket for a couple weeks isnt high on my fun list.

Mike007 · Nov 8, 2012

Salmonslayer said:
When I bought my generator I was looking for a 7500 or preferably 5500 and there were no portables made in the US that I could find of that size. All of the major brands I looked at in that size had Chinese engines including Generac so I bought a Honeywell that was on sale and after 3 years and a lot of use so far so good. I have had no trouble running the computer and TV etc and my furnace is an outside wood boiler so I am just running the furnace blower and a Bell Gosset circulation pump.

But I do have a question for Mike, we are just getting hooked up to a small community sewer system that requires us to have a small tank with a submerged macerater and lift pump and its being outfitted with a transfer switch so it can be hooked up to a generator and pumped a couple times a week if the power is out (we have had 2 week long power outages). Do you think our existing generator has clean enough power for something like that or will we need some kind of line conditioner? The pump and macerater doesnt draw much power but it does have electronic circuitry that it would **** to fry. Pooping in a bucket for a couple weeks isnt high on my fun list.

I'm no expert on the subject, but it seems electric motors run fine if the power is a little dirty.

skippydoo · Nov 8, 2012

I had a good talk with my friend who sells generators. He bought a testing device to check the hertz a unit puts out. They should be 60 hertz, but many of the non sine wave units are all over the place, even top name units. Every sine wave unit is at 60 hertz when tested. The tester is very expensive, over two grand. You can run anything you want on any kind of generator you want, but it will be a slow death to your electronic equipment. The worse the generator the quicker death will occur. I have a Kipor 6000 sine wave and love it. Not only does it have low idle, but it only revs slightly higher with many lights, tv, and others stuff. I go outside and can hear the neibors unit as loud as mine and his is 500 ft away vs thirty ft for mine. My also sips fuel.

Charles (in GA) · Nov 8, 2012

Mike007 said:
She didn't want to hear anything. Her neighbor is an HVAC guy and he told her it's not the generator.
2 days later she called an apologized, said her nephew brought her another gen and the boiler fired right up.

I'm surprised you heard from her. Most people won't admit they are wrong or that the expert is right and they just didn't understand.

Charles

Sticky · Nov 8, 2012

Thanks for posting this Mike. It's something I hadn't considered and I don't have the money to buy a generator twice. After our power went out again from the snow last night, I'm keen to get a generator soon. Whoever thought NJ would have weather like this.... guess only Al Gore.

matt151617 · Nov 9, 2012

Mike007 said:
I'm in the hvac business. Due to Sandy, there were 1000's of chinese made generators sold. They all look the same with different name brands on them. There were a lot of disappointed people when I had to tell them their new generator will not run modern heating equipment or water heaters which uses the ground for flame detection. It was the same conversation over and over.

I didn't dig too deep into it, but I did notice for some reason when I check the power at the generator they only read 70-80 volts from hot to ground. It's either that or the power is just dirty. Any of the known brands run the equipment fine, Generac, Honda, Homelite etc. Something you might want to keep in mind.

Can you explain this more? No clue what ground flame detection is. If my generator tests 120v to ground or neutral, it'll run my boiler ok?

wyliesdiesels · Nov 9, 2012

Mike007 said:
Voltage wasn't an issue with the one I actually looked at. It was 120 +/- hot to neutral and 70-80 hot to ground.

If voltage to ground is only 70-80v, it sounds like the neutral and ground bond is not good. Hot to ground should be 120v just like a regular outlet in a house.

skippydoo said:
I had a good talk with my friend who sells generators. He bought a testing device to check the hertz a unit puts out. They should be 60 hertz, but many of the non sine wave units are all over the place, even top name units. Every sine wave unit is at 60 hertz when tested. The tester is very expensive, over two grand. You can run anything you want on any kind of generator you want, but it will be a slow death to your electronic equipment. The worse the generator the quicker death will occur. I have a Kipor 6000 sine wave and love it. Not only does it have low idle, but it only revs slightly higher with many lights, tv, and others stuff. I go outside and can hear the neighbor's unit as loud as mine and his is 500 ft away vs thirty ft for mine. Mine also sips fuel.

Many multimeters can test frequency. My fluke does and it didn't cost 1000s of $s!

lakee911 · Nov 9, 2012

I have a Honda knock off ... Max Power, I think is the brand ... it runs just about everything I throw at it. Seems like most of the plastic parts have either broken or are ruined from gasoline (fogged up) Frequency and Voltage is fine. Sensitive items run through a double conversion UPS first. I have about 300+ hours on it, I'd estimate.

Thx,
Jason

IMStuner · Nov 9, 2012

lakee911 said:
I have a Honda knock off ... Max Power, I think is the brand ... it runs just about everything I throw at it. Seems like most of the plastic parts have either broken or are ruined from gasoline (fogged up) Frequency and Voltage is fine. Sensitive items run through a double conversion UPS first. I have about 300+ hours on it, I'd estimate.

Thx,
Jason

How much it did cost?

lakee911 · Nov 9, 2012

IMStuner said:
How much it did cost?

It was $324.39 shipped in 2006 according to my invoice. Item: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GLGM5U/?tag=atomicindus08-20. They've changed the name now to Blue Max (and I could have sworn it was larger that 4KW)

For the piece of junk it is, it's actually held up quite well... I didn't realize it was 6 years old now.

jawnd393 · Nov 25, 2012

wyliesdiesels said:
If voltage to ground is only 70-80v, it sounds like the neutral and ground bond is not good. Hot to ground should be 120v just like a regular outlet in a house.

Many multimeters can test frequency. My fluke does and it didn't cost 1000s of $s!

I agree. The neutral/ground bond should have made a 70-80v difference unlikely.
Perhaps something was miswired in the generator hookup. A neutral/ground voltage difference might occur if the furnace or water heater was plugged directly into the generator and the generator not properly grounded.

I wonder if a multimeter expects to see a sinewave when measuring frequency and may not read properly on an inverter modified sinewave, which is more like a square wave.

Highbeam · Nov 25, 2012

Lots of cheap things read hertz. My cheap kill-a-watt meter reads hertz and volts and my chinese Champion genset makes both of these properly. Also makes a proper voltage reading to ground or to neutral.

I think this is more a case of a bad generator than a case of all chinese generators are bad. I have had 100% percent success with chinese generators.

Mystic142 · Nov 25, 2012

A cheap oscilloscope will let you see exactly what you are getting for much less than 2g.

miner · Nov 26, 2012

Possibly these particular generators are being used as a portable system without the ground/neutral being bonded. IF you had these plugged into a transfer switch that doesn't switch neutral then the neutral and ground would be bonded at the service entrance. SO voltage should read the same.

I was under the impression that all portable generators are shipped with ground/neutral bonded and you have to disconnect them if you want a floating neutral. Don't know too much about it, though.

e-tek · Nov 26, 2012

I recall a thread quite a while back on hooking things up to run on generators in case of power outages. For you electrical guru's, what's a good way to hook up the furnace and water heater for generator use? Just wire them into a receptacle arrangement?

Living in the cold white north I think about having back up, but our power seems much more reliable than most so nothings ever been set up. Power has never been out for more than a few hours....still...."one day" is coming I'm sure.

AlaskaErik · Nov 26, 2012

I bought a 5k (Chinese) Matrix diesel generator from Costco five years ago that runs my entire house just fine. Rather than wire just a few circuits, which would have been very expensive, I put in a transfer switch next to my meter. Total cost, including the generator, was about $1600. Whenever we have a power failure, I don't change anything. I just fire up the generator and power everything like I was on commercial power. The only thing I haven't tried is running my electric clothes drier. Other than that, the well pump, microwave, TV, all lights, etc run just fine. The lights I normally use are all CFL and I have UPSs on the TV, computer and satellite power supply at the CAT5 panel.

Oldbear · Nov 26, 2012

Mickey O said:
But aren't the Chinese generators cheaper?

I'm still giggling...

malibu101 · Nov 26, 2012

e-tek said:
I recall a thread quite a while back on hooking things up to run on generators in case of power outages. For you electrical guru's, what's a good way to hook up the furnace and water heater for generator use? Just wire them into a receptacle arrangement?

I don't know about the water heater.
But if you just want to plug in an extension cord to run just the furnace this seems like a nice, safe, simple device-
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/reliance-controls-furnace-transfer-switch-tf151.html#.UJmUC2e3xpg

My parents have a double pole double throw center off switch and an inlet that was installed a la carte but works just like this store bought device.

Before you buy a Chinese generator:

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member