Wood and Metal Shop

big dump · Nov 14, 2012

I've been on the board for a while, but this is my first time posting. I'm in the process of moving, and am going to have to downsize my shop space. I'm actually thinking it will be a good thing and make me use the space more efficiently and effectively. I'm currently in a 30x40 space, which I use to park 2 vehicles, and house all my woodworking and metalworking tools. One thing that I've seen for the large part shops are set up dedicated for auto/metal fab and machine, or woodworking exclusively.

One thing that is of concern to me in general is that one discipline creates dust and combustibles, the other creates sparks, chips, and flames. Even with using dust collection on the woodworking tools, there is always a fine layer of wood dust everywhere after a day of wood forming/cutting/sanding etc.

My new space I'm planning is going to be 24x28 or around there, and will need to be able to have room to park one vehicle that can be moved out to work as needed. I'm curious to see what you all have done if you use your garages/shops for both woodworking and metalworking/auto fabrication. I'd like to have the ability to use all my tools as needed without having to completely shut down the shop for a day of setup or prep to switch disciplines beyond just reasonable clean up. How have you guys set up your shops to do both?

Some of the tools I'm using often:

Table saw with out feed support, miter saw, jointer, shaper, router, band saw, drill press, MIG welder, TIG welder, acetylene torch, horizontal band saw, tubing bender.

DPelletier · Nov 14, 2012

I have built autoshops, heavy duty mechanics shops, welding and fabrication shops and carpentry and fine arts shops. I've never seen them mixed together for obvious reasons. I have one friend that has such a shop and he has a wall (with large windows) that sections off the woodworking area from the automotive area.

As you know, sawdust is extremely flammable and in the right concentration; explosive. I'd say a wall with an exhaust fan to generate negative pressure is the best way to go. Without a way of dividing the space, thorough cleaning of all surfaces after using any of the carpentry equipment would be required.

Dave

Aberdale · Nov 14, 2012

It really depends on how much wood working you do compared to metal working and mechanical work. If you do much of either, I would recommend separate spaces for a wood shop and a metal working shop.

I have separate spaces for a wood shop (30x30), a metal fab/machine shop (20x20), mechanic workshop (40x30), and paint shop/clean room (40x30). The metal fab, mechanic, and paint shops are in the same building, but partitioned from each other with O/H doors between. The wood shop is in a large unfinished walkout basement. All spaces are heated to prevent condensation. The wood shop is also humidity controlled.

I then have a separate attached garage for keeping cars and motorcycles, and a separate barn for truck, tractor, and equipment storage. I used to hate parking vehicles in the same place I used as a workshop. I always had to back vehicles out to make room before I could start a project, and I always had to stop in the middle of a job to clean up enough to get the cars in; or leave them outside and scrape frost in the morning. Always had grinding dust and dirt all over the cars, because I found myself taking shortcuts. I didn't want to take the time to move things around to do it right.

The worst part was getting the occasional paint overspray on tools and vehicles, or getting grease/grime on wood projects, or getting sawdust and dirt in mechanisms. Then there's always the safety factor wondering if grinding or welding sparks will catch something on fire back in some nook or cranny.

I'm sure if I had to, I could go back to working in one space, but it would be hard. I guess I'm spoiled, but I appreciate what I have everyday. And I'm more motivated to start a job and feel safer doing it.

'dale

luvit · Nov 14, 2012

i have one garage. every project i do is slow..
dusty activity, like sawing wood, is taken outside.. setup and tear down time = slow
grinding metal, crazy sparks, is taken outside.. setup and tear down time = slow
now my welding will have the option to be taken outside = slower

cleanup time and hazardous conditions = beautiful & quick, safe
so there is a trade-off.

if the weather doesn't cooperate, then my shop will be clean & safe enough to still do these things indoors on those "rainy days".

keep clean & safe out there!

Steevo · Nov 14, 2012

I don't mix them in the same space.
I use the house-attached car-parking garage and associated driveway for woodworking projects, and keep my shop building sawdust-free.
I used to have only a house garage, and did woodworking in the garage and in the driveway, and dragged my metal cutting, welding and such out onto the driveway when needed. This was a PIA.

Gary S · Nov 14, 2012

I have my woodworking shop in my basement. When I bought this house, the previous owner had a TV room, rec room, or whatever he called it there. I pulled out the cable for cable TV, pulled up the carpet, and built a woodworking bench, and it magically turned into a woodworking shop. My house has hot water heat, so there is no air movement from the heating system and the sawdust stays in the shop where it belongs.
Consider using space in the house for woodworking if you have some available.

My garage is for parking cars and working on them.

shoot summ · Nov 14, 2012

I have a 20x30 3 car garage, I do it all in there.

I don't have the luxury of leaving everything set up. most of it has to move around and is stored away when not in use, this includes a contractors saw, miter saw, 6X48 sander, portable planer, dust collector, and my welding cart. My work area is basically 1 bay where my wife's car parks a night, and some of the area where tools are stored. I typically don't leave everything set up over night unless it is a big project and I get special clearance to leave her car outside. That said, it would be rare, if ever that I stopped in the middle of a wood project to do some welding. If I had to then I would clean up the combustibles before I did.

If I had the luxury of a large shop I would have two separate areas, unfortunately I don't have that luxury.

OctoMan · Nov 14, 2012

Get one of those pre fab sheds. You could use it to put all the wood working stuff in and use it as a workshop. A friend of mine bought one to house his 1948 MG TC. He measured it out and bought one to fit it. It might be tight but you could have a nice shop and not have to decide on one or the other.

big dump · Nov 14, 2012

I appreciate all of the feedback. I agree with most of what's been said, and the reasons why/why not. I just don't have the ability to build anything bigger and quite honestly don't want to or am unwilling to give up any of the abilities that using my tools affords me. In other words, I don't want to choose one medium to work in.

I don't have a problem keeping things on casters and moving as needed though. I think the idea of putting up a wall or partition is viable. Maybe some sort of sliding wall or accordion wall setup would work. Like stated, I rarely have a situation where I would need to stop ripping boards and weld something, but sometimes when I'm making jigs or fixtures I grind hardware and or weld something up.

I guess maybe it's unrealistic but I half expected someone to say 'here's my shop, and I'm able to do it no problems..' Painting/finishing aside, I do think it's reasonable to be able to set up a multi-purpose shop if it's well thought out. Keep the feedback coming, it's very much appreciated. Pictures also..

Exceller8 · Nov 14, 2012

I'm very lucky, I have two dedicated work areas and a 20' container. One shop is setup for metal working and general repair and the other is setup for dedicated woodworking and painting. Everything else ends up in the 20' container.

luvit · Nov 14, 2012

casters is a good idea. -- at least i'm in process of putting everything on casters.
welcome to TGJ, btw..

big dump · Nov 14, 2012

Exceller8 I've stumbled upon your shop build thread several times in my searches. It looks clean and well organized. I think a container would be very beneficial in storing and securing tools you don't necessarily use every day also. Have you thought about making that space more into a workable area? Is it large enough inside to do some work? Or possibly setup with a vent as a downdraft and use for painting/finishing?

ClintNZ · Nov 14, 2012

I do a bit of both in my 20x20 shed. I have tried to keep the workbench end tidy & easily cleanable - most tools & stuff is shut away in cupboards or drawers, not too much junk on the floor, covers over the lathe & welder, keep those 'nooks & crannies' that might collect sawdust to a minimum, so it's not a big deal to have a sweep or vacuum & get ready for the next job. I've set the place up from the start with that in mind & it works ok.
With a slightly larger space I'd defintely be looking at some partitions & curtains to screen off welding & woodworking areas though.

Cheers
Clint

big dump · Nov 14, 2012

covers over the lathe & welder, keep those 'nooks & crannies' that might collect sawdust to a minimum

That's a good thought. I was thinking earlier maybe using some large tarps but making or buying some covers that fit tighter would be much better than loosely fitting tarps. I also saw the image of the leaf blower earlier and thought once a week blow out would be good as a measure to take..

bullnerd · Nov 14, 2012

Theres a pic in here of how I planned to block my wood shop(curently in basement) from the rest in my new building.

However I have recently been thinking it would be nice to have one large open shop.Especially for heat and AC reasons.I have seen model shops that are this way.When I bought my prototrak it was covered in wood dust.

Like someone said,with a good dust collection system(at machines and airborne)I think it could be done.Might depend on what type of woodworking you do.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2613005&postcount=1

Tim The Tool Man · Nov 14, 2012

I have both combined. I lean more towards woodworking but still do plenty of metalwork. Dust is a concern for me and so I have a fairly extensive dust collection system and a centrally mounted air filtration system. I also have an electric leaf blower that I frequently use to clean out my shop.

A_Pmech · Nov 14, 2012

big dump said:
I guess maybe it's unrealistic but I half expected someone to say 'here's my shop, and I'm able to do it no problems..' Painting/finishing aside, I do think it's reasonable to be able to set up a multi-purpose shop if it's well thought out. Keep the feedback coming, it's very much appreciated. Pictures also..

Here's my shop and I'm able to do it no problems:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106289

:thumbup:

Boomer343 · Nov 14, 2012

Our attached garage gets used for everything from storage, car parking, motorcycle parking, wood butchering and metal mashing, paint booth and more.

I have also taught in a two station high school shop with 22 plus students making sawdust while 22 plus were making sparks, fixing cars, doing foundry work and a few other things.

Keeping on top of keeping things clean is a good idea, doing hot things like welding and grinding with a dampened floor and doing them early in the day so you can be around to spot any smoke is another idea. Build a cutting table for the oxy/acy unit with some sand in the bottom will help control that splatter.

Basically you need to be very aware and really take note of where things are and what impact you are going to have a couple of steps ahead.

GarageEnvy · Nov 14, 2012

I'm nowhere near as serious (or talented) as A_Pmech so I do share space for the wood and metal projects. It's a compromise and not ideal for sure but it has also worked. Basically the space is 53'x33' deep but most of it is car/boat parking. The shop area is really only 33' deep and 12' wide. The wood tools are toward the rear of the shop and the metal toward the front. I typically try and have the door open to direct as much of the sparks outside as possible. I use a dust collector on some tools but not all. I try and sweep up before doing any welding or grinding. This is just a hobby space for me and I wouldn't recommend it for a commercial or full-time setup. Also, I don't have a lathe or mill, so no precision machining going on here.

Thruxton · Nov 14, 2012

The title of my thread says it all. There are some major requirements: good dust collection and air filtration for woodworking, scrupulous cleanliness for metalworking, exceptional diligence in wrenching on cars when it comes to fire prevention. Especially in an attached garage, of course. And none of this actually takes much more time, because since all these measures require a pretty high degree of organization, that organization saves time, enough to cancel out (at least for me) the extra effort required.

ClintNZ · Nov 14, 2012

big dump said:
That's a good thought. I was thinking earlier maybe using some large tarps but making or buying some covers that fit tighter would be much better than loosely fitting tarps...

I'm a lucky guy, my girlfriend sewed up the covers & did a great job, heavy denim is cheap & effective:

An upholstery shop would likely make you some canvas covers from a sketch for a decent price as it's much simpler work than they usually do.

Boomer343 said:
doing hot things like welding and grinding with a dampened floor and doing them early in the day so you can be around to spot any smoke is another idea. .

Amen to that, Haven't wet the floor but I try not to leave the shed right after hot work & always do a fire check an hour or so afterwards if I'm not still in there. I've probably burned through about 30lb of rods in there on the old buzzbox now & I haven't had to bust out the extinguisher yet. The new TIG spreads a lot less sparks around which is nice.

Cheers
Clint

W_KY · Nov 14, 2012

I saw it a long time ago on here and I can't remember who it was but someone had this neat setup for a paint booth. It was basically a sheet of plastic wrapped aroun a piece of PVC. Then there was a rope system to roll it up and down. It would work for blocking a lot of the saw dust. Then you could put a heavy fabric type curtain (like a welding blanket) around where you'll have sparks flying.

big dump · Nov 15, 2012

Thanks for this guys. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for.

A_PMech, I just read your garage thread. Incredible. I'm also an industrial designer. Do you have any sort of layout sketches or anything broad showing the flow of your shop? Where everything is set up? It seems like you've managed to effectively cram 15lbs of stuff into a 5lb area and keep it very workable. Very impressive..

Angelfire · Nov 15, 2012

Watching with interest as I'm essentially in the same situation. Some days I lean towards putting a wall up to section off the areas and other days I do not.

Falcon67 · Nov 15, 2012

Having done both over the years in various spaces - dust collection is the thing for any wood working hobby. If you can buy/build an air filter to go over the primary work area and outfit the machines with good vacuum ports, you will reign in a lot of the dust problem. Because it does go everywhere. Right now, I just move to the area in front of the big door and that is sufficient for what little I'm doing. Table saw and miter saw will be the worst offenders IMHO. Router next, Planer some, drill press not so much.

luvit · Nov 15, 2012

here, i couldn't describe my plans very well, and i thought i may complete it soon, but i decided to show it early for your review..

it may not be safe, someone on TGJ may have tried this elsewhere.

.

kbs2244 · Nov 15, 2012

Boat canvas shop are another place to get custom covers made.

BWS · Nov 16, 2012

I'm a closet sheet metal guy.....love the layout math.What it has done is open up a new appreciation for air quality.

Air quality isn't limited to suckin dust off a sander/shaper/TS,etc...in the woodshop.You'll need it in welding world.....MOST deffinately in paint world.To a slightly lessor degree in the machine shop but.....it is present.Think surface grinding...wet or dry.

Whats also important is...even though its not quite the same is....spark arresting.In a fabricating shop,how well you arrest sparks...bench grinder,belt grinders,angle grinders,etc.......has a direct effect on the air quality.Sounds,DUH....but start taking a REAL good look at any spark generating pce of equip......but go past the sparks lighting up a fire.There are airborn particles fouling up the environ.

So,if designing a shop....any shop.....I'd start with making plenty of calcs regarding airflow.Good luck with your build.

onewaydave · Nov 16, 2012

If you don't do metal work in your wood shop, you need to discover the world of old machinery and tools.

Dave.

Wood and Metal Shop

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