Impact driver or impact wrench: M12 Fuel

skiingman · Mar 22, 2013

Hey guys,

I use my air impact wrench and my M12 electric ratchet all the time. I'd love an electric impact and some 3/8th swivel sockets for when the 1/2 inch air tool is overkill but the electric ratchet isn't appropriate.

I do not own an impact driver for deck screws and whatnot; I borrow one from my dad when I need one. I'm trying to buy a house so I suspect I'll need one of my own soon. Milwaukee makes an m12 fuel impact driver I could use with an 3/8" drive adapter, but they also make a 3/8" impact wrench.

My question is this: Assuming automotive use will be my primary use in the long term, am I giving up too much by getting the impact driver shown here:

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2453-20

vs the impact wrench shown here:

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2454-20

Thank you for your insight.

bimmerZ5 · Mar 22, 2013

i went down a similar route not so long ago.... i initially thought to get the impact driver and use adapters for 3/8" and 1/4" socket driving... what i learned is that those adapters are long, and you end up losing about 1" to 1-1/2" of clearance... which i found to be enough to make it useless for automotive repair work in many instances. in the end, i ended up getting a dedicate impact wrench so i can put the sockets directly on the tool without an adapter that gets in the way.

padronanniversary · Mar 22, 2013

I just bought the M18 XC kit, 2 of the 4Ah batteries. They had a deal $100 off the XC kits. I already own lots of the small batteries. The thing is so light with the small packs. I was debating getting the M12 too since I have alot of the M12.

I'll see how the M18 fuel one is.

Danglerb · Mar 22, 2013

Buying a house I would suggest not spending a dime you don't need to spend until your in and know what needs money applied to it NOW.

That said, I think fuel is overkill for most DIY, Craftsman C3 is cheap and effective for most stuff. I've got maybe half a dozen impacts, all sizes, biggest and smallest see the most action.

skiingman · Mar 23, 2013

Fair enough re: not spending money. No chance of me buying craftsman power tools. I already have m12 tools and im very satisfied with them.

I think ill wait and see if someone wants to get me the bare impact for a holiday.

truckdriver · Mar 23, 2013

You also loose torque through the adapters. Milwaukee sells a 3/8sq-1/4hex adapter if you need to use powerbits.
Since this is GJ, I'll give you a more sensable answer- Buy them both and the adapter.

Ign · Mar 23, 2013

truckdriver said:
You also loose torque through the adapters. Milwaukee sells a 3/8sq-1/4hex adapter if you need to use powerbits.
Since this is GJ, I'll give you a more sensable answer- Buy them both and the adapter.

This and this.

For automotive work, you'll find the 3/8" sq drive much more useful. You can then, if you wish, get the sq to hex adapter mentioned above. This would be the best compromise as you'll have a shorter package and more direct power transfer when using 3/8" drive sockets for automotive where space is more of a concern. Then when driving, say, deck screws w the adapter you're not generally as concerned about tool length.

But yeah, buy them both. I've got both (not Fuel), use them both regularly and they both have their place. I have the adapter too

diesel research · Mar 23, 2013

many of the common socket sizes and types are available with a hex shank forged in. no adapter or significant torque loss.

just as an example

firebox40dash5 · Mar 23, 2013

I'd be more worried about the M12 being disappointing in auto work. I'd definitely get the hex driver over a dedicated impact for versatility. I use socket adapters on my 18v Makita and honestly, they don't get in the way much at all. I use mine quite a bit at work, and I was using it all the freaking time before we moved into a real shop last year.

While people are telling you to buy both... get the M12 impact driver, and buy the 3/8" impact in M18 Fuel, it's got more than 50% more torque! :lol:

smothers33 · Mar 23, 2013

id get a dedicated impact wrench but id get the 1/4 drive one. you wont be turning anything above a 10-12 mm bolt anyways so a quarter socket set will cover that and be smaller than the bulkier 3/8 sockets and extensions. the whole point of getting a m12 impact is its size. its more compact for getting in tighter areas. you dont wanna cancel that out by having adapter and bulkier sockets and extensions. if you want something with more power move up to the m18 stuff

TheGrooveking · Mar 23, 2013

diesel research said:
many of the common socket sizes and types are available with a hex shank forged in. no adapter or significant torque loss.

just as an example

I have two sets of the Milwaukee nut driver impact bits and will state that they are the worse I've ever used. The problem is that they do not hold on to the fastener unless you keep the bit 100% square and forced down on it, resulting in the nut driver slipping off. It works in a lab but in the real world not all fasteners are addressable square on. I recommend looking at a different brand.

TheGrooveking

Ign · Mar 23, 2013

diesel research said:
many of the common socket sizes and types are available with a hex shank forged in. no adapter or significant torque loss.

just as an example

I disagree. You do have torque loss there. The 1/4" hex shank is simply never gonna be as strong or rigid as 3/8" square.

Just a few minutes ago I used my 3/8" square drive impact to remove vise jaws with a hex socket, ie hex key mated to 3/8" square drive. For stuff like this the 3/8" square is more versatile and more likely to be encountered in automotive work, rather than sourcing sockets and hex keys which have the 1/4" hex drive on the other end.

Ign · Mar 23, 2013

TheGrooveking said:
I have two sets of the Milwaukee nut driver impact bits and will state that they are the worse I've ever used. The problem is that they do not hold on to the fastener unless you keep the bit 100% square and forced down on it, resulting in the nut driver slipping off. It works in a lab but in the real world not all fasteners are addressable square on. I recommend looking at a different brand.

TheGrooveking

I'm a Milwaukee guy, but you're right. There's just no depth there before the fastener head hits the magnet. Which is true of many of the sockets in this style; they're not really intended for automotive wrenching, they're meant for driving lags square on I guess.

And if you need a deep with a 1/4" hex drive, good luck. Another vote for 3/8" square :thumbup:

skiingman · Mar 23, 2013

OK, so I came up with a solution that hopefully the Garage Journal won't find too upsetting.

-I bought the older non-fuel hex shank impact driver for 60 bucks shipped today. It has mostly fantastic reviews with a few complaints about power. I'm needing one for general light fastening, driving drywall screws here and there, etc. so I believe I'll be happy with it.

-Hopefully I can get the Fuel 3/8" (or 1/4", which oddly produces less torque? hmm) impact for an upcoming holiday. Meanwhile I'll keep tiring my arm out zipping off light hardware with my 1/2" impact. Or maybe I'll take that advice to get an M18 version. I don't own any M18 tools yet...

The hex shank sockets are pretty cool looking. I've seen a set but the ones I saw were really shallow too. I suspect a set of Sunex 3/8" swivels are in my future.

firebox40dash5 · Mar 23, 2013

Those Milwaukee "sockets" aren't exactly sockets, they're just nutdrivers. They work great running self-tappers into sheet metal, and... oh, well that's pretty much it.

I keep a set, and a Dewalt swiveling set, for doing just that in tight spots, but sockets they're not.

That 1/4" gun would be awesome for interior work, or zipping off skidplate screws and stuff under a car. With 50 ft/lb, it would be about worthless everywhere else, unless you want to crack every bolt free before running it off with that. I seriously don't see the point of the 3/8" square in 12V, it's just not enough torque to justify a dedicated impact gun for me. I wish my brushless 18V Makita had more *** half the time, and if it's anything like mine (can't imagine it would be better with 2/3 the voltage) the runtime will **** when you're really using it. I will say my next tool set will likely be Milwaukee, and I probably won't bother with an 18V hex impact, though. That 3/8" 18V Fuel impact has enough torque to just throw a 1/2" adapter on it, and use 12V for hex-shaft duties.

itwnexus · Mar 24, 2013

New Milwaukee M18 FUEL Brushless Impact Wrenches:

http://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-fuel-brushless-impact-wrench/

Ign · Mar 24, 2013

skiingman said:
OK, so I came up with a solution that hopefully the Garage Journal won't find too upsetting.

-I bought the older non-fuel hex shank impact driver for 60 bucks shipped today. It has mostly fantastic reviews with a few complaints about power. I'm needing one for general light fastening, driving drywall screws here and there, etc. so I believe I'll be happy with it.

I think that's a good choice, esp considering price.

Regarding arguments of size, the first pic shows 1/4" hex driver on left with 5/16" hex shank "socket". The right is 3/8" square drive with a true 5/16" socket. 3/8" square drive is more compact.

The second pic shows 1/4" hex driver on left with adapter to 1/4" square. The right side of 2nd pic is 3/8" square drive with 3/8 to 1/4" square adapter. Both these are now ready to take any 1/4" drive socket. The 3/8" square drive impact is clearly more compact.

Neither of these are Fuel models.

diesel research · Mar 24, 2013

Ign said:
I disagree. You do have torque loss there. The 1/4" hex shank is simply never gonna be as strong or rigid as 3/8" square.

Just a few minutes ago I used my 3/8" square drive impact to remove vise jaws with a hex socket, ie hex key mated to 3/8" square drive. For stuff like this the 3/8" square is more versatile and more likely to be encountered in automotive work, rather than sourcing sockets and hex keys which have the 1/4" hex drive on the other end.

these sub compacts do not make the torque required for significant torsional loss.

as for the hex key, that isnt much of a problem for me, as the snapon torx/hex bits were quite a bit cheaper within appropriate size range.

a 3/8 drive square only makes for an unneeded excessive tool width w/o delivering much advantage.

save the 3/8 for the m18 fuel.

used the original m12 hex for a few years in heavy duty over the road trucks. 8-14mm, 5/16-9/16, t15-25 predominantly.

TheGrooveking · Mar 24, 2013

Remember the 3/8" drive M12 2451 has 200 more inch pounds of torque over the 1/4" hex drive M12 2450. I fully understand the recommendation to go with the M18 Fuel 3/8" which I relate to Snap On CT4410 for comparison but will state that M18 will be larger and not as easy to get into tight spots, so intended application will dictate which to go with. For me the M12 3/8" has little to no battery protruding beyond my hand when I hold it, but when using the XC battery that changes.

TheGrooveking

Ign · Mar 24, 2013

TheGrooveking said:
Remember the 3/8" drive M12 2451 has 200 more inch pounds of torque over the 1/4" hex drive M12 2450. I fully understand the recommendation to go with the M18 Fuel 3/8" which I relate to Snap On CT4410 for comparison but will state that M18 will be larger and not as easy to get into tight spots, so intended application will dictate which to go with. For me the M12 3/8" has little to no battery protruding beyond my hand when I hold it, but when using the XC battery that changes.

TheGrooveking

Yep, there have been fasteners the hex driver would not break but the 3/8" square drive would. I attribute it also the hex adapter rattling around in the hex chuck, where as a 3/8" drive socket has less play at the interface w the tool.

I'd love the whole M18 line and as soon as someone gives me a grand or so I'll buy it all. In the meantime I'm heavily invested in M12 and V28/M28. Buying something that requires YET ANOTHER charger and battery platform does NOT make sense. If it did I'd already own the IR W7150 'cause I really want it!

Impact driver or impact wrench: M12 Fuel

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