Below 265 SQ/FT 3x Motorbike Cabin/Workshop - UK

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

Hello All,

I've been procrastinating actually working on my new house and designing my new shed and layout instead.

It's an unfortunately small space - appx 4.6x2.4 internally, just enough to fit 3 bikes and work I hope with the correct arrangement.

Here's a rough plan view:

Bench for working, welding and general fab, 2x pull around tool cabinets so I can get them out easily for racing.
Probable put some shelving along the wall to the left - got to get bikes in and see how much clearance there is first though.

Seating area for plotting out the next step or watching movies out the way, general chill space.

I'm thinking of putting the roof slope the other way round, its not a big garden by any stretch of the imagination and hopefully less of a front projection will make it less imposing, it also makes the guttering more easily accessible.
There will be a clear single apex roof over the decked area between the back-most room and the shed - so i'll be able to get in to the workshop without getting wet

Obviously the shed will have doors, I will steel reinforce some basic multi-light french doors for each opening with a heavy duty shrouded van hasp for security.

The grass leading up will be artificial, i've got some samples which are quite nice and know a few people with full gardens in it who are very happy - will hopefully withstand big dirty motorbikes being wheeled around on it.

So, any suggestions from knowledgable forum types?
Anybody custom made their own shed from scratch?

It's my preferred way forward as I can make it the right size and more robust than off the shelf sheds.

EDIT
Here's a before shot from when.i was converting the coal shed:

Please feel free to photo-***** if you have useful layout or construction examples

fflintstone · Mar 30, 2013

Wow! That is tiny! I myself would do whatever necessary to add a foot or two of depth. You need to be able to walk 360 deg around a bike.

consider raising the roof 2-3 feet and adding a loft storage.

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

fflintstone said:
Wow! That is tiny! I myself would do whatever necessary to add a foot or two of depth. You need to be able to walk 360 deg around a bike.

consider raising the roof 2-3 feet and adding a loft storage.

I'd love to add some further depth, 2.4m should be just big enough to push the bike forward/back to get the wheels out when needed and walk nearly all the way round the bike.
(I have an old hospital hydraulic bed to serve as a bike lift - it has wheels).
But making it any deeper would reduce the garden further - it's already tiny and the missus would never let it happen :lol_hitti

Unfortunately planning restrictions prevent me making the building any taller.
UK building regs has a cap of 2.5m height restriction before planning regs and eaves need to be 2m at the lowest point.

With all the other 'modifications' i'm doing to the house I want to leave it as long as possible before anyone from Building Regulations comes by for an inspection(!)

If I did it'd block all the light from the garden anyway - another reason for changing the direction of the roof slope.

LutzTD · Mar 30, 2013

lloks like you are doing it right, lots and lots of planning before chips fly. You are challenged for space to be sure, have you layed your shed in the other way as a continuation of the house with the doors on the side? I know it would be a sharp turn to get in but it might allow you to follow the house roof for continuity and you might end up with more useful space. Also, I would ditch the green carpet, couple oil drips and it would get ruddy. What about green painted concrete?

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

LutzTD said:
lloks like you are doing it right, lots and lots of planning before chips fly. You are challenged for space to be sure, have you layed your shed in the other way as a continuation of the house with the doors on the side? I know it would be a sharp turn to get in but it might allow you to follow the house roof for continuity and you might end up with more useful space. Also, I would ditch the green carpet, couple oil drips and it would get ruddy. What about green painted concrete?

If we had either house next door - having the garage as a continuation of the buidling (i.e. @ 90 degrees) would be ideal - its a very good suggestion.
Unfortunately the gap between the house and shed is where all the light comes from - it'd be a very dark garden without this gap,
it aligns perfectly with surrounding trees - having the shed at the bottom blocks almost no light.

The weather in the UK is bad enough without blocking out the little sun we do get :lol:

It's yet another complicated issue due to building regs as putting it that way round would be within 50cm of another dwelling (next door, to which we are attached).

The fake grass is to keep it child friendly without having to tend to a real lawn (it'd end up bald anyway - and it's really hard to justify a lawnmower for such a tiny patch.

The grass is intended so that its just big enough for a toddler to play on,
there's a large park around the corner thats about a mile long with football/cricket pitches etc so good for bigger kids.
(Starting a family soon you see :willy_nil

...)

fflintstone · Mar 30, 2013

I don’t know squat about England building codes, but can you use the garden walls as your shed walls?

Can you build a “covered garden area” to the limits of your wall, and then enclose the front later?
From your CAD rendering it would look like you would gain a foot of depth and 2 foot of width. Along with having a cool texture for the shop wall.

fflintstone · Mar 30, 2013

what about building a ramp and using the front parlor as a workshop, then the wifey could have the whole back yard?

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

fflintstone said:
I don’t know squat about England building codes, but can you use the garden walls as your shed walls?

Can you build a “covered garden area” to the limits of your wall, and then enclose the front later?
From your CAD rendering it would look like you would gain a foot of depth and 2 foot of width. Along with having a cool texture for the shop wall.

The back wall is 2m double brick so would be perfect - if it didn't lean quite so much - I estimate it'll fall over within the next 5 years and I want any blame from the neighbour

All the brick walls around the garden are about 120years old and they absorb alot of damp from the ground - hence leaving a gap from the walls.

It's still a very tempting option though, as you say its an extra foot to 3 sides.

I could just do the rear as thats the biggest problem regards space and bitumen paint it for damp - that way the independant sides will support the rear instead of the shaky brick wall and I get an extra 12" (wehey!).
(My shed may even strengthen the brick wall stopping it falling over!)

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

fflintstone said:
what about building a ramp and using the front parlor as a workshop, then the wifey could have the whole back yard?

I suggested using the dining room or study as spillover bike storage instead of such a large shed - she didn't go for it :lol:

fflintstone · Mar 30, 2013

CaptainCaveman said:
I suggested using the dining room or study as spillover bike storage instead of such a large shed - she didn't go for it

Unless she is a nymphomaniac that owns a liquor store, you married the wrong woman.
:lol_hitti

GBsnoopy · Mar 30, 2013

As they are party walls your only liable for half the cost but if you approach it right you could talk nice to your neighbours about a deal contribution for rebuild on saftey grounds etc to rebuild them, if they think.your doing them a favour by not charging them half the cost just part of it they may fall for it.
A few extra feet makes a huge difference to any work area. I would max it out as long as it did not look out of place.
Try reducing a room in your house by a foot here and a foot there the amount difference it makes is amazing imo.

As for security when it comes to bikes I would go for the higher security option, but again its a balance between looks and security you have to way it up what's best for you and the area you live in.

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

GBsnoopy said:
As they are party walls your only liable for half the cost but if you approach it right ...

...

As for security when it comes to bikes I would go for the higher security option, but again its a balance between looks and security...

Unfortunately the property to the rear is let, the landlord has already sold off the bottom part of the garden and replaced a load of fallen brick walls with really horrible ****** concrete/wood fences.
There's no way he'd pay half the costs - even though it'd be minimal as i'd rebuild it myself.
Maybe i'm over egging the risk of collapse and it'll be there another 20 years, who knows.

Security is tricky, I want the shed easy to access and not look like a fortress - as thats just not attractive, i'm really being careful not to make the garden an eyesore.

The security plan is to fit multi-lite french doors and reinforce the frame and door with 3mm steel welded together. A cylindrical shrouded van hasp should do the locking job well - that and I can have them keyed-alike so less faff.

The more noise they have to make getting in, the less they'll bother.

The gate into the garden is also nice heavy wood and prevents prying eyes.
I don't think chains etc inside are too worthwhile as the garage will be full of tools - disc locks will be fitted though.
I'll also put curtains across the doors so that the bikes are only on show when I want them to be.

The area isn't great and theft is a risk - luckily the bikes arn't too valuable, but they are getting more valuable with time.

I've always loved the idea of a visual / audio alarm that attacks the senses. Several strobe lights and 130db should do the trick of significantly disorientating any intruders :rocker:

Vernmotor · Mar 30, 2013

I will never complain about my small garage again !

GBsnoopy · Mar 30, 2013

For doors do a Google and ebay search for metal security doors, for ideas they are alot stronger than normal pvc doors or even the alloy reinforced ones but they can have the same look as standard house doors. My local window place sourced mine and to look at they look like any others including tripple laminated glass but you can tell when opening and shutting them as there a lot heavier as well as multipoint locking and deadlock locking.

For alarms, a gsm phone dialer is good piece of mind when not there and what I have on my workshop as well as internal and external battery backuped strobed alarm boxes, +2 internal speakers, +"sound bombs".

CaptainCaveman · Mar 30, 2013

Vernmotor said:
I will never complain about my small garage again !

The worst part is that this is what $180,000 buys in the UK;
a 3-bed Victorian Semi with on road parking and a tiny garden.

GBsnoopy said:
For doors do a Google and ebay search for metal security doors

For alarms, a gsm phone dialer is good piece of mind when not there and what I have on my workshop as well as internal and external battery backuped strobed alarm boxes, +2 internal speakers, +"sound bombs".

Those doors are a little pricey - i'm looking at 4x doors at £60 a pop, sheet steel doesn't cost much - I might even manage to snag some offcuts for free from a scrap bin at work. All the welding I'll do myself - suppose I could use some box section for added strength - again doesn't cost anything and fabrication is less than a day.

As for alarms i've been tempted to put one on the house, so can easily extend the network to the workshop - it'll have electrics running in anyway (50amp cable for the welder).
I've been tempted with CCTV setups that link to the interweb - they cost buggerall (mainly incase of hit and run to the cars at the front of the house - both me and the missus have been victims in the past whilst being parked up). but it'd be nice to log on and check the bikes are still nicely tucked in

Where did you get your strobed alarm boxes from? so far i'd just been thinking i'd make them myself - but if they're a reasonable price it's worth a shot.

CaptainCaveman · Mar 31, 2013

Thinking about the 'lounge' area more I like the idea of being able to move the seats out the way.

I could put the seats on castors and roll them to the other side / around 90 degrees, I think that'd work.
As a permenant feature they are certainly in the way and there is no reason against mounting on castors.
I'd really like the seats in, it just adds that small element of luxury into what will be a reasonably basic shed. (i appreciate this application of the word 'luxury' may seem backwards on this forum(!))

Off on a tangent it's handy this, it's weird the decisions you make and then effectively shut the door on the alternatives.

I think not building upto and against the 3 existing walls would be a waste - the extra space would make it much more practical. (i bow down fflintstone)
I suppose I can always bitmumen paint the wall first and put 25mm polystyrene under the capp overhangs and build the wall upto that either side, it'd give me another 2' on the width.
Using the existing back wall is probably a must too as it gives me back the clearance gap and the wall thickness, so nearly 2' depth!

Although I'd consider most of my ideas to be well thought through, I'll readily admit some are just daft.
(I don't want to be that guy who asks advice and ignores it all...)

FIRST POST EDITED FOR 'BEFORE' IMAGE.

GBsnoopy · Mar 31, 2013

I've made the mistake of making a garage too small when i should have made it a little bigger with a bigger door (home garage should have been wider by a foot ot two with a wider door of at least 14 ft, or better still I should have made it a 3 car DOH!).
Better to be that little bit bigger then it too small and having regret about the wasted space from my experience.

I got my alarm boxes from a local place called norlan electrical supplies in Newcastle. I have seen similar on ebay but they were more expensive.

If you have the skills I would knock the wall down and rebuild it, not a cheap or quick option but it would give you peice of mind its going to be solid you could reuse most if not all the bricks looking at that photo. So not too expensive.

The welder cable I may have used slightly larger just in case you upgrade or want to weld something thick at some point. As you have plans it seems for lots of other things that may run from it in the workshop. I design welders for a living so know how power hungry they can get even a 250a mig/mma off a 32A socket can pull over 40A at times and smaller cables may cause voltage drop.
It all depends on what welding gear you have of cause, I'm.guessing only a small 200a tig set prob an AC/DC set as you have bikes.

uke73 · Mar 31, 2013

Might be worth keeping your roof with the pitch running front high to back low, that way you could get hold of some aluminium caravan channeling and make up an awning which slides in the channeling and attaches to the house/wall for working outside on those long balmy (reading warmish but ******* it down) summer days England is so well known for? By the looks of it that would double your "floor" space? Not so good in the winter though

Neil

CaptainCaveman · Apr 1, 2013

Revised plans now include building up to the existing border walls,
after seeing the difference back to back it's quite clear - just work-out a way of damp proofing against the bricks leaching moisture.

Revised models, lots more space:

Simple rearrange of seating / tool cab opens some further room too.
Also with extended depth it allows fitment of shelving behind the parking area, it may even be possible to squeeze in another bike

Anyone got any good good for damp proofing in this situation?

My current plan involves:
Bitumen paint the wall, plastic damp membrane, 25mm insulation and then build from block as per usual.
(built onto a concrete slab of course)

Hmmm... Luxurious space...

CaptainCaveman · Aug 21, 2013

We moved in our project house in June and finally some action on the shed:

From this:

To this:

Not bad for a mornings work and 220 quids.
(The slab, not everything else.)

If anyone is planning similar, this was 2.5m x 4.8m with a 3-4" base.
This required 2 3/4 tons of ballast and 16 bags of cement to do.

It took about 5 hours to lay with two men and a petrol mixer.
Considerably shorter than digging out all the old bricks, washing line post, random previously laid slabs, dead prostitutes, etc.

Next, to actually build the fecking shed!

Brick dwarf wall with timber above is the current plan, although this changes daily.

CaptainCaveman · Aug 21, 2013

My shed design has evolved yet again;

Moved in from the side walls afterall, best solution regarding preventing damp,
still going to work upto the back wall though because depth front to back is the main space issue.

Dwarf brick walls should also counter damp and a 'pretty' timber structure can sit on top.
Using big 100x100mm timbers should make things rock solid.

Also worked out the wasn't enough height on the backwall for a single slope so have put in a mild pitch which should preserve head height in the working areas (I'm 6', and clearance will be 6'-6'6").

Can't be bothered with modelling and remodelling, I know what I want to fit in does, so sketching should do.

dublove · Aug 21, 2013

Why not build it all timber chap? Then it will be classed as a temporary structure and you could go higher than 2m at the eaves...

CaptainCaveman said:
I'd love to add some further depth, 2.4m should be just big enough to push the bike forward/back to get the wheels out when needed and walk nearly all the way round the bike.
(I have an old hospital hydraulic bed to serve as a bike lift - it has wheels).
But making it any deeper would reduce the garden further - it's already tiny and the missus would never let it happen

Unfortunately planning restrictions prevent me making the building any taller.
UK building regs has a cap of 2.5m height restriction before planning regs and eaves need to be 2m at the lowest point.

With all the other 'modifications' i'm doing to the house I want to leave it as long as possible before anyone from Building Regulations comes by for an inspection(!)

If I did it'd block all the light from the garden anyway - another reason for changing the direction of the roof slope.

CaptainCaveman · Sep 7, 2013

Started the the actual sheddy but of the shed this weekend.

Sealed the back wall as this will be exposed:

May leave the bare brick look, but we'll see what it's like for light, it may yet end up white.

Working out brick pattern and spacing:

Saves having to knock bricks back out and scrapping a mix of mortor because you've cocked up the spacing.

Got a bit of laying done, but ran out of light:

All of this arrived today too:

Big fat 100x100mm redwood timbers, should make it nice and solid and hopefully secure.

Naturally the design has evolved a little:

After hacking back the ivy the wall turned out to be a different shape, so the shed got shorter (again!) this maintained the head height throughout and the all important symmetry.
Although it means I'm definately limited to 3 bikes, I do have storage elsewhere though

The handy side effect of this is that there is now a place for a wood store, which I had been struggling for previously.

CaptainCaveman · Sep 7, 2013

dublove said:
Why not build it all timber chap? Then it will be classed as a temporary structure and you could go higher than 2m at the eaves...

I can't go any higher without going over the back wall, this will block more of the already limited afternoon sun.

Proximity to other dwellings insists it's below a 2.5m unless made primarily of a non-combustable material. Especially as I'll effectively be using it as a garage.

That and brick dwarf walls will stop the wood rotting, I have a load of bricks anyway from knocking through various parts of the house, don't mind a bit of brick laying.
(These are proper sized, 120yr old, hard as nails bricks, I really like using them)

The final reason for incorporating brick is the bike insurance, they don't like all timber structures (to the tune of an extra grand a year on the premiums!)

Started it now anyway (!)

redlinetoys · Sep 7, 2013

Interesting! For some crazy reason, I kind of like a small intimate shop. My first "garage" was a 10x14 storage barn with a loft, a work bench, cabinets, air compressor, vice, grinder, drill press, etc, etc. It was kind of nice working out there with the radio on. In later years, the barn had a door cut in the side to attach it to a small garage. It continued to be the workshop while the car was in the larger space. Subscribed.

CaptainCaveman · Sep 8, 2013

I've got an issue with my design, with the reduction in width I've lost some of the central column between the doors (even after already taking 100mm off each side column):

Naturally the design has evolved a little:

Fortunately I haven't ordered the doors yet, so could get 2x sets of 686mm instead of 2x sets of 762mm,
thereby giving me the central column back,
but slightly tighter access for the parking and workshop areas
(the effect on the parking area isn't so bad, as I can only fit 3 bikes in there now anyway, I had hoped at one point I could stretch to all 4, but this leaves 2 in the parking area so plenty of space).

What think ye al'mighty GarageJournal Forumites?
Am I worrying about nothing and the second design doesn't look bad?
Will a 1300 instead of 1500 gap be too small to easily manoeuvre a pair of bikes in and out of?

Luckily the doors are amongst the last thing and the column is only really there for the doors and weight support when it snows, so I don't have to decide today(!)

CaptainCaveman · Sep 8, 2013

redlinetoys said:
Interesting! For some crazy reason, I kind of like a small intimate shop.
...
Subscribed.

Yes hopefully it should be nice and cozy once it's heated and insulated.
If I'm a very lucky boy I may find space to squeeze in a little woodburner without melting the bikes(!)

Cheers for the interest,
tonight will contain more pictures of finished brickwork and hopefully at least the start of some framing.

Gringo_ringo · Sep 8, 2013

Hi Vfiend, shed is looking good, just been checking it out on the PB forum too

El Gringo

CaptainCaveman · Sep 8, 2013

Gringo_ringo said:
Hi Vfiend, shed is looking good, just been checking it out on the PB forum too

El Gringo

Cheers fella, it's good to have a dedicated thread on here, interesting to look back at the thought process and all the revisions so far, I'm so fickle.

That and it's a nice contrast to all those huge and luxurious American automotive barns all over this site.

Back to bricklaying, the suns out!

Olliecampbell · Sep 8, 2013

CaptainCaveman said:
That and it's a nice contrast to all those huge and luxurious American automotive barns all over this site.

I get quite jealous of the warehouse sized garages the US guys get, puts our little huts to shame!

CaptainCaveman · Sep 8, 2013

Olliecampbell said:
I get quite jealous of the warehouse sized garages the US guys get, puts our little huts to shame!

Yes I'm attempting to excercise the theory of "small but perfectly formed" :thumbup:

Today's efforts were fuelled by a very questionably named energy drink:

Drinking from the furry cup indeed...

Some walls,

Hurrah, surprisingly in tolerance, most of everything is within 5mm of where it should be, the worst of it is 10mm out.
Not bad considering it isn't my day job.

Better view of the position in the garden,

I'm quite glad as it doesn't seem it will dominate.

Here's all the wood I didn't get chance to put up yet,

Taking up the length of what will eventually be the dining room and study.

Coming soon, my magnificent erection(!)

CaptainCaveman · Sep 9, 2013

Just incase anyone was wondering what was under the cover:

My '95 Honda FireBlade, my current commuter while the van is out of action.

madurama · Sep 9, 2013

CaptainCaveman said:
Just incase anyone was wondering what was under the cover:

My '95 Honda FireBlade, my current commuter while the van is out of action.

great motorcycle and good work in your garage :beer:

RSOllie · Sep 10, 2013

Good project uve got there!
Very tight indeed! Good old england

CaptainCaveman · Sep 11, 2013

madurama said:
great motorcycle and good work in your garage

Yes it's a lovely bike, I'd always lusted after that model, now I've been riding a while I can afford the insurance(!)

RSOllie said:
Good project uve got there!
Very tight indeed! Good old england

Yes, the house came up at a price we couldn't refuse, and it's a distance from family that was priceless (next door but one) so I had to forgo my lusty big garage/driveway dream.

One day I'll get a luxurious corner plot like yourself.
Been reading your thread, looking good, glad to see someone else employing brick dwarf and timber.
It, in my mind; is the best compromise for security, durability and aesthetics.

Yes good old England, first it robs me of space (although I am town center),
now the **** weather is delaying my build! ****** endless rain...

Currently sat drawing my timber joints, whoop.

CaptainCaveman · Sep 21, 2013

Some last minute prep work:

Post & beam frame going up tomorrow.

CaptainCaveman · Sep 22, 2013

Did alot of cutting today,
Most of everything is to length, most halfjoints are cut,
Got a few more to do tomorrow after work and might get the side frames up.

Need to get the rest of the frame done and some rafters up so that I can sheet it dry before the summer's death throws are over.

Almost making up as I went along, at least I'd sketched it out.

Probably could have made some cleaner joins and hidden screws more, but the frame is being pained on the exterior so will hide a multitude of sins.

Here's how today finished:

Not much to see, except my commuter anyway

CaptainCaveman · Sep 23, 2013

I cut the last few joints after work today, 4x4" beams in excess of 4m are rather heavy!

Starting to look more like a structure:

Almost, kind of.

I was a little worried it may still be a too flimsy without any bracing as it'll be a while before I fill the gaps with studwork,
don't fancy it dropping on the bike in the wind when it's sheeted up,
but after just that little bit assembled my fears are put to the side, it's rock solid!

I know it's not much really, but it feels good to start getting it screwed together!

CaptainCaveman · Sep 24, 2013

Slowly, slowly, catchy, monkey:

Hopefully get the side frames bolted in tomorrow and some cross members in.

(unless I'm dragged out food shopping)

CaptainCaveman · Sep 29, 2013

Yesterday's progress:

Below 265 SQ/FT 3x Motorbike Cabin/Workshop - UK

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