Can someone explain "lobster claw"

ToocoolZ28 · Jul 24, 2013

I've seen several comments on here about "lobster claw" wrenches, mostly about Craftsman I think. What exactly does that mean? They aren't any good? Are all Craftsman wrenches this way?
Thanks
Guess I'm not in the loop.

54FordPanel · Jul 24, 2013

From another thread about lobster claw open ends:

NoNN37 said:
I think the extra metal in the lobster claw is to compensate for the loss of strength due to cheaper manufacturing/material. Or the people that make them dont care about quality control/ original specs.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133877&showall=1

That's a pretty good illustration.

devoncoolman · Jul 24, 2013

Lobster claw is refering to the open end of a wrench. Specificaly the new chinese craftsmans. The open end is huge compared to previous models. Mainly because the crappy steel and sub-par hardening. They add more metal to make up for the crappy forgings and crappy hardening. Basicly the open end looks like a lobster claw. Oversized compaired to any quality wrench.

Super Sport · Jul 24, 2013

See pictures here:
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2929852&postcount=319

zcbauer89 · Jul 24, 2013

Worthless would be a good way to describe them.

3xpendable · Jul 25, 2013

zcbauer89 said:
Worthless would be a good way to describe them.

And ugly

srmofo · Jul 25, 2013

zcbauer89 said:
Worthless would be a good way to describe them.

But are they really "worthless". Obviously the design had to be tweaked but if they still perform the intended function and at a fraction of what a "quality" wrench costs are they worthless?

Lets face it. Its a stubby wrench. Chances are you are not going to be able to put enough torque on it to break it regardless, so whats it matter that they are now a little fugly

zkling · Jul 25, 2013

I really want to do a structural test on one of the new (china) vs old (USA) craftsman wrenches. Anyone willing to donate one of each for destructive evaluation? :evil:

I will put them in a tensile test machine to fine out roughly what type steel difference they are using. They will be toast (in two pieces) after testing. I wonder if craftsman will then warranty them? :bounce:

If I can find some singles of the new china claw ones on clearance, I am doing this. Seriously. I can hear the instron begging for it. :evil:

wrh3 · Jul 25, 2013

Maybe not completely worthless, but the larger head will make it harder to maneuver in some areas. And this isn't just stubbies, it is ALL Chinese wrenches from polished to raised panel.

I would be curious if they went to this design due to weaker steel though

zkling · Jul 25, 2013

srmofo said:
But are they really "worthless". Obviously the design had to be tweaked but if they still perform the intended function and at a fraction of what a "quality" wrench costs are they worthless?

Lets face it. Its a stubby wrench. Chances are you are not going to be able to put enough torque on it to break it regardless, so whats it matter that they are now a little fugly

Yes, but I believe they are quite a bit bigger on the open end due to extra material, therefore limiting the space to work in compared to the older wrenches. Thus reducing their usefulness.

CWP1616L · Jul 25, 2013

This picture taken by Skin shows a GearWrench 14mm open end face to face with a Snap-on 14mm open end; and then a GearWrench 17mm open end face to face with a Snap-on 17mm open end:

retDAC · Jul 25, 2013

zkling said:
Yes, but I believe they are quite a bit bigger on the open end due to extra material, therefore limiting the space to work in compared to the older wrenches. ...

Technically true, but how often does that matter for most people?

CWP1616L · Jul 25, 2013

retDAC said:
Technically true, but how often does that matter for most people?

It matters an extraordinary amount to people like me who depend on lean cut open ends to get into tight places.

zkling · Jul 25, 2013

retDAC said:
Technically true, but how often does that matter for most people?

Do much work on modern vehicles? Lots of very tight spaces. IMHO new products should be an improvement on the older generation, not a step back, like these.

mmack66 · Jul 25, 2013

CWP1616L said:
This picture taken by Skin shows a GearWrench 14mm open end face to face with a Snap-on 14mm open end; and then with a GearWrench 17mm open end face to face with a Snap-on 17mm end.

There isn't that much of a difference there. The Craftsman wrenches look ridiculous.

Conductor562 · Jul 25, 2013

retDAC said:
Technically true, but how often does that matter for most people?

Sears asked themselves the same question before they shipped out. To answer your question though, most people don't give a damn about things like this. Most people look at the price tag and the name and toss them in the buggy. That being said, most people don't spend a measurable amount of time on the Internet discussing the merits or lack thereof, of tool designs. John Doe Sears customer can have ugly, clunky, low quality, Chinese, wrenches and drive tools if he wants them, Conductor will stick to Proto.

TwoInch · Jul 25, 2013

those pictures of the gearwrench wrenches are not "lobster claw" style in any way. they may not be the same profile as snap on, but they are not huge, and they are not a bad design.

the new chinese craftsman are really the only wrenches i have seen with the "claw" thick open ends.

i have also not seen anyone able to show that the material is weaker or of lesser quality in any way, shape, or form. although i keep hearing people claim them as such. until someone does the test, those claims are nothing but speculation.

im not saying they are a good or bad design. i am saying that i will never buy them to add to my tool box personally.

zkling, yes of course they will warranty them. they do not have to even have a flaw to be warrantied. the funny thing is, when you do warranty them, you will almost certainly get a USA made professional long pattern as a replacement. i have not been to a single sears that has chinese open stock wrenches. :thumbup:

retDAC · Jul 25, 2013

zkling said:
Do much work on modern vehicles? Lots of very tight spaces. IMHO new products should be an improvement on the older generation, not a step back, like these.

CWP1616L said:
It matters an extraordinary amount to people like me who depend on lean cut open ends to get into tight places.

I said most people, not pros. Reading this board gives me the impression most pros generally don't use Cman combo wrenches anyway.

Frankly, to me, these oversized wrenches indeed appear to be a shoddy design compared to the more common style.

CWP1616L · Jul 25, 2013

mmack66 said:
There isn't that much of a difference there. The Craftsman wrenches look ridiculous.

Although the Chinese Craftsman wrenches do look ridiculous, the GearWrenches are still WAY too fat.

monster1 · Jul 25, 2013

mmack66 said:
There isn't that much of a difference there. The Craftsman wrenches look ridiculous.

I agree. I have gearwrench and craftsman ratcheting wrenches I bought about 8 years ago. The craftsmanship are USA made and the gearwrench Taiwan. Both have identical open ends. They are slightly wider but lobster clawed by no means. I haven't found a spot they wouldn't go in. Yet.

Skin · Jul 25, 2013

srmofo said:
But are they really "worthless". Obviously the design had to be tweaked but if they still perform the intended function and at a fraction of what a "quality" wrench costs are they worthless?

Lets face it. Its a stubby wrench. Chances are you are not going to be able to put enough torque on it to break it regardless, so whats it matter that they are now a little fugly

Its not just the stubbies it happened to. All the Chinese production have fatter open ends including the raised panel and pro full polish replacements. See the thread linked in post 4.

First, it isn't a confidence builder as far as the steel quality. Second, aside from a few applications the only time someone is going to be reduced to an open end is because its the only thing that will fit. Are those enormous ends going to help clearance in a limited access situation? I think not.

zkling · Jul 25, 2013

retDAC said:
I said most people, not pros.

O believe me I am far, far, VERY FAR from being a professional. :lol_hitti

Calling me a pro mechanic would be an insult to all the guys that truly are professional mechanics. I'm just talking even for the home guy that likes to keep their vehicle maintained themself (me). With cars getting closer passages, one needs all the space they can get. Other stuff besides cars is going to pose a problem as well. Machines, tools, appliances, etc. The other day I had to adjust our washing machine leveler, had to use the open end of a wrench in a boxed in area.

Garage5.9 · Jul 25, 2013

I think a actual lobster claw is more useful

tube_guy · Jul 25, 2013

zkling said:
O believe me I am far, far, VERY FAR from being a professional. Calling me a pro mechanic would be an insult to all the guys that truly are professional mechanics. I'm just talking even for the home guy that likes to keep their vehicle maintained themself (me). With cars getting closer passages, one needs all the space they can get. Other stuff besides cars is going to pose a problem as well. Machines, tools, appliances, etc. The other day I had to adjust our washing machine leveler, had to use the open end of a wrench in a boxed in area.

I agree. I'm a hobby wrencher and really far from a professional mechanic. I do work on our cars and on everything around our house, and I often find very tight places where my small tools will just barely work or a smaller tool makes the job so much easier. The new Craftsman wrenches are just way too big for me. Especially the stubbies, which are borderline silly. Why on Earth would a stubby wrench need such a large amount of material? The new Craftsman sockets are too big as well. The walls on the sockets are quite a lot thicker than the previous generation of sockets.

As far back as I can remember, the hallmark of good quality tools was that they were thinner and smaller so they can be used in tighter places. The new Craftsman stuff is all just a big step backwards as far as I can tell.

Spudland_Dave · Jul 25, 2013

retDAC said:
Technically true, but how often does that matter for most people?

Big time...I recently upgraded from USA CMan's to Snappy's and just the other day I noticed a HUGE difference when bleeding the fuel lines on one of my yanmar diesels...As the sign on the truck says..."There IS a difference"

CWP1616L · Jul 25, 2013

tube_guy said:
Especially the stubbies, which are borderline silly.

"borderline silly" LOL! :lol:

Higgins · Jul 25, 2013

I may not be a pro, but spend a lot of time working on and restoring cars!

Helped a neighbor kid this week and had to find my thin Open ended / box wrenches to work on his Jeep, as there was no way you would be able to use conventional wrenches to get onto the bolt that needed to be loosened!!!!

Just glad I had the ole set still around!!

AL

mdkingsley · Jul 25, 2013

MMMMM Lobster,

NC-Fordguy · Jul 25, 2013

I don't have any raised panel or full polish "lobster claw" wrenches but do have some of the universal and ratcheting wrenches with the same design. I also have made in the USA crossforce and flex end wrenches that have the same design

I have yet to find a tight space where these wrenches will not function as a regular wrench would. I do work on 4x4s so there is usually more room to get around things than a car though. Tight places where one has to use an open end such as tightening a distributer clamp bolt or header bolts have not been a problem.

I do agree with the sentiment they look silly but haven't run into an issue. I've likely spent to much time on this trying to find a spot where they won't work

FLRover · Jul 25, 2013

Delicious little sea creatures, use a cracker to open them up and then dip the meat into melted butter. See pictures below.

Oh wait wrong lobster

4x4gearhead · Jul 25, 2013

I find these new lobster claw wrenches to be much less than useable. I work with a lot of hydraulic lines and those wrenches dont fit on a lot of lines that are close to each other. Im sure they are strong enough since they have all that meat but if you cant fit them you cant use them.

Spudland_Dave · Jul 25, 2013

4x4gearhead said:
I find these new lobster claw wrenches to be much less than useable. I work with a lot of hydraulic lines and those wrenches dont fit on a lot of lines that are close to each other. Im sure they are strong enough since they have all that meat but if you cant fit them you cant use them.

+1 on that...not just close to each other, but for example ones that run alongside the boom on my Mini-Ex, rear remotes on my tractors, etc. Hydraulic lines are one of those things that MFG's just want to put as close together as humanly possible. I swear there must be some engineering prize for being able to cram 6, 1/2" hard lines thru a 2" hole and mounted with only .010 clearance between each line.
Hydraulic Lines actually benefit from having 2 sets of non-lobster claw's.

Its one of those things that until you find a case for them, you think its not that prevalent. OR your just used to having to make do with lobster claws and just haven't used anything other..A case of "You don't miss what you never had"

Jim C. · Jul 25, 2013

What I do like about the lobster claw wrenches is the fact that they're easy to identify, even from a short distance away, thus telling me that they were probably made in china, and therefore not something that I'm going to buy or even waste my time looking at.

Oh yeah, and the big clunky open ends DO look silly. They sort of remind of toy tools that one would give to a child with large over exaggerated parts and openings. The only thing missing is the fact that they aren't multi-colored and stamped with Mattel or Hasbro.

Jim C.

jakemac · Jul 25, 2013

Lobster => The cockroach of the sea.

ToocoolZ28 · Jul 25, 2013

OK, now I see. Turns out my latest set of ratchet wrenches are like this. All my old combination wrenches are old enough not to have them. They haven't been a problem for me but I don't wrench full time, just side jobs.

gagreen · Jul 25, 2013

ToocoolZ28 said:
OK, now I see. Turns out my latest set of ratchet wrenches are like this. All my old combination wrenches are old enough not to have them. They haven't been a problem for me but I don't wrench full time, just side jobs.

Now that you know there is a difference you'll start to find short comings with a tool you were happy with. Not that you cnt be happy with any tool but once you use a better version of the same tool you notice it pretty much instantly. This is the point at which most guys start hitting the internet for deals. lol it's a vicious cycle. At least sears has the dewalt combo's which are extremely nice for the price.

ajchien · Jul 25, 2013

zkling said:
The other day I had to adjust our washing machine leveler, had to use the open end of a wrench in a boxed in area.

Me too. My project was simply disassembling Ikea furniture. Only an open end would fit. and I had to flip the wrench with each motion to get it to turn enough to get to the next flat. A lobster claw would likely not even get into the boxed area to touch the bolt.

CWP1616L · Jul 25, 2013

ajchien said:
I had to flip the wrench with each motion to get it to turn enough to get to the next flat.

The thin wide beam profile of a Snap-on wrench makes it particularly well suited for flipping over quickly.

.

Strouty · Jul 25, 2013

I hope you guys know that the "lobster claw" wrenches are actually a better deal, you are paying less for more "meat". If you went to the grocery store and you had to chose between 2 pounds for $5 or 3 pounds for $4 I think we all know what you would get. Just because the $4 package had retired greyhound meat versus the $5 package with ground sirloin shouldn't make a difference.

Stuey · Jul 26, 2013

Strouty said:
I hope you guys know that the "lobster claw" wrenches are actually a better deal, you are paying less for more "meat". If you went to the grocery store and you had to chose between 2 pounds for $5 or 3 pounds for $4 I think we all know what you would get. Just because the $4 package had retired greyhound meat versus the $5 package with ground sirloin shouldn't make a difference.

I had a roommate that thought like that once. He bought 60:40 ground beef instead of 80:20 or leaner because it offered "greater value." Then, when making a giant 3-pound burger (if only that was the strangest thing he did), he pressed out and discarded what looked like a pint or two of liquified fat.

Can someone explain "lobster claw"

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