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WTF. Mis-machined dies on Channellock 909 crimpers. Won't make proper crimp.

redwrench60

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I normally use a quality ratcheting crimper at work but I bought three pairs of Channellock 909 crimpers on sale to use in my truck tool set, my grab and go kit and I gave a pair to a buddy as a gift. I went to use a pair today and stripped my wires, made my crimp and it fell right apart! I was crimping 18 AWG wire with insulated heatshrink (red) 18-22 AWG terminals that I've used for years. All three pairs failed to make a proper crimp, not to mention one pair is rusting like a son of a *****.

I finished the job with a pair of Klein 1005 crimpers.

Am I doing something wrong or are these just junk. Edit: Pics are on post #14
 
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FlyBy

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I'd contact them and send pictures. They're a great family owned company and should do something about it especially if its happening on multiple hand tools.
 

zkling

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I was instructed by a few industry experts (members on here) that the non insulated dies are to be used for all types of terminals. Same folks also mentioned that the Klein 1005 and 1006's are better than the channellock 909 crimpers. I'm on the look out for a pair myself.

I have seen the ideal crimpers get very good reviews, but they seem a bit pricey compared to the others. Then again I have read very good reviews for the channellock 909's as well, SO....:dunno:
 

CWP1616L

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No, you definitely don't want to use the non-insulated die for insulated terminals.

Hey redwrench, was it you that was gonna buy the Klein lineman pliers?
 

zkling

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I can tell you with a great deal of confidence that the are worth the extra money.

Where is the best place to purchase them? I've seen your posts on here with detailed pics. I was impressed, until I saw the price. :lol_hitti :sad: I know you and another member (that has since been banned) were very fond of them. I have a pair of Ideal 420 pliers that are awesome, so I have faith in their products.

No, you definitely don't want to use the non-insulated die for insulated terminals.

Just what I was told by a few members on here that work in the field and I respect their opinions, no first hand experience though. :dunno:
 
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CWP1616L

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Where is the best place to purchase them?

I got mine from an electrical supply house in town locally, but they were only about $26.00 at the time. With the way everything else is going up, I'm surprised they're not double that by now.
 
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redwrench60

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No, you definitely don't want to use the non-insulated die for insulated terminals.

Hey redwrench, was it you that was gonna buy the Klein lineman pliers?

Yes sir! I bought the HD2000-9NE Kleins and am currently evaluating their quality (using the piss outta them) I was going to update my thread after I put some miles on them. They're everything I was hoping for. Perfect fit/finish and excellent cutting power. Thanks for all your help sorting out the models!
 
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CWP1616L

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Yes sir! I bought the HD2000-9NE Kleins and am currently evaluating their quality (using the piss outta them) I was going to update my thread after I put some miles on them. They're everything I was hoping for. Perfect fit/finish and excellent cutting power. Thanks for all your help sorting out the models!

How are the handles? I tried a pair at Sears one time and the handles felt huge.
 
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redwrench60

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I wish I could get these pics to load so I could show you guys what I mean. My computers acting like a ******.....

Edit: Here they are!
 

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CWP1616L

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redwrench, after trying those HD linemans, if you were to ever try the Ironworker D201-7CST pliers, that'd be like comparing a Peterbilt to a little Porche 911. :D
 

Brownsfan

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I wish I could get these pics to load so I could show you guys what I mean. My computers acting like a ******.

I always use the non-insul die on any type of **** connector using any brand of plier style crimpers. I don't think the dies are mis matched they just don't crimp **** style connectors all that well. Why? I have no idea. I own both you mentioned (Klein and channellock) and always have preferred the Klein. Try using the other die you will need some considerable force to pull them apart. Now using the insul die on a bell cap(crimp cap) and it will work fine **** connectors not so much.
 

nine4gmc

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I use the non-insulated die on ALL connectors. I don't use heat shrink connectors, if the connection needs heat shrink, I crimp a **** connector with the non-insulated die and then use heat shrink over it. I can not tell you how many connections pull loose when using the insulated die... It's a nightmare trying trouble shooting when you are making lots of connections, like a car alarm or remote start.
 
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redwrench60

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I use the non-insulated die on ALL connectors. I don't use heat shrink connectors, if the connection needs heat shrink, I crimp a **** connector with the non-insulated die and then use heat shrink over it. I can not tell you how many connections pull loose when using the insulated die... It's a nightmare trying trouble shooting when you are making lots of connections, like a car alarm or remote start.

I hear a lot of people suggest crimping insulated with the non insulated die but my problem is it smashes the terminal barrel and pierces the insulation and defeats the purpose.
I've used the Klein, Snap On and Thomas and Betts crimpers in this style and they all make a strong crimp; not as easy as my ratcheting crimpers but very good for the money. i was hoping these 909s would be a good bargain but they're unusable.
 

nine4gmc

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I hear a lot of people suggest crimping insulated with the non insulated die but my problem is it smashes the terminal barrel and pierces the insulation and defeats the purpose.
I've used the Klein, Snap On and Thomas and Betts crimpers in this style and they all make a strong crimp; not as easy as my ratcheting crimpers but very good for the money. i was hoping these 909s would be a good bargain but they're unusable.

That's why it works.... I have used the Klein 1006 style for 25 years, very few problems and none due to the crimpers themselves(user error). 9/10 times the insulation is pushed into the crimp, still protecting the connection. If I need additional protection, I sleeve it with a heat shrink or a few wraps of electrical tape. You can try ANY brand of insulated type crimpers and I guarantee you will be able to pull the wires from one end or the other from the crimp...non insulated style crimpers are nothing but trouble imo.
 

CWP1616L

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You can try ANY brand of insulated type crimpers and I guarantee you will be able to pull the wires from one end or the other from the crimp.

I used to have that problem with the crimper/stripper combination type pliers, but after buying the Ideals, I had no more wires slipping out of the insulated crimps. I think part of it has to do with the tremendous leverage the Ideals give you.
 

jeffmoss26

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I own all 3 (T&B, Klein, Channellock) but I reach for the Kleins first. I remember my roommate struggling with a GB crimper that is a poor imitation, wiring up a car stereo and putting his entire body into each crimp.
 

rancherbill

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..... I bought three pairs of Channellock 909 crimpers .......I went to use a pair today and stripped my wires, made my crimp and it fell right apart!.....All three pairs failed to make a proper crimp, not to mention one pair is rusting like a son of a *****.

I've had cheap **** USA crimpers like them. You should know that anything you can buy at HD is made to the lowest standards possible to keep the price low.

I crimped a bunch of connectors and they looked good. I installed them and the 'last one' fell apart during installation. I had to redo the who;e installation.:shocking: I tossed the crimpers.

Now I buy import, give them a real test while I still have the receipts, and am happy. I save a lot of money.
 
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redwrench60

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Just for giggles today at work I tried a co workers pair of 909s and a pair of Cornwell rebranded 909s and neither one would crimp properly. Do none of these work right?! I guess that rules out warranty; then I'd have three more useless crimpers lol.

I also tried a pair of Thomas and Betts and Snap On 29CP crimpers with the same type of design and they both made proper crimps using the insulated dies. I like Channellock but these are a fail.
 

Brownsfan

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Really try using the non-insul die. It's blunt enough not to pierce the insulation if its a decent quality connector. I agree with you on the insul die on those crimpers. It will work on the insul die if you move the connector back slightly toward the non die. I use these and the snap on 29cf most because the cutters are far better than the Kleins.
 

CWP1616L

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I get perfect crimps out of my Ideal crimpers on both the insulated die and the non-insulated die. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being so perfect that I can't think of anyway to improve upon them......I'd give them a 10. And that's coming from the most nit-picky tool buyer on the face of the earth. Even my Snap-on dealer calls me a prude.
 
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redwrench60

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I get perfect crimps out of my Ideal crimpers on both the insulated die and the non-insulated die. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being so perfect that I can't think of anyway to improve upon them......I'd give them a 10. And that's coming from the most nit-picky tool buyer on the face of the earth. Even my Snap-on dealer calls me a prude.

I did some thread searching on the Ideals and ran across a thread with pics of your ideals and the die profile looks very similiar to my Snap On 29CPs. They don't have near the finish and polishing yours do but the profile is similiar, what do you think? Are they Ideal rebrands? They crimp well.
 

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CWP1616L

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I did some thread searching on the Ideals and ran across a thread with pics of your ideals and the die profile looks very similiar to my Snap On 29CPs. They don't have near the finish and polishing yours do but the profile is similiar, what do you think? Are they Ideal rebrands? They crimp well.

In the first picture of your SO crimpers it looks like the non-insulated die is squared off......I wouldn't like that. However, they are a vast improvement over the new Home Depot generation Kleins with their chipped tooth looking die.

Is Amazon screwing with me? This is what shows up when I search for Ideal 30-429 crimpers.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZZCUOY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Yes, they got the wrong picture at Amazon. Check out Enco industrial supply.
 

Mohawk Dave

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I use the non-insulated die on ALL connectors. I don't use heat shrink connectors, if the connection needs heat shrink, I crimp a **** connector with the non-insulated die and then use heat shrink over it. I can not tell you how many connections pull loose when using the insulated die... It's a nightmare trying trouble shooting when you are making lots of connections, like a car alarm or remote start.

I ALWAYS use the NON-INSULATED as well. I go by feel, mind you. I also use 3M adhesive heat shrink over that because I'm super paranoid about having an electrical failure out in the middle of nowhere (vehicles and trailers).

I have yet to have a problem...fording rivers and all that. And I go crazy with dielectric grease on all connectors and grounds.
 
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CWP1616L

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Perfect insulated crimp and perfect non-insulated crimp:


DSCN3757_zps9c8ce21a.jpg


DSCN3731_zpsf7280a46.jpg
 
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Brownsfan

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I use my crimpers the same way you show. The exception is insulated **** connectors. Using the isnul die just does not "feel" right. I also think the older blue point 29f crimpers were ideal crimpers. I have a set of the 45* angle crimpers(blue point) and they are almost identical to the ideals. The new snap on versions are made by snap on I believe. They have the best cutter of all plier style crimpers I have ever used.
 

CWP1616L

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I prefer using non-insulated connectors if I can because they they take up less space in a wire loom. As long as I got room to get in there with the heat shrink and Zippo lighter.
 
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redwrench60

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In the first picture of your SO crimpers it looks like the non-insulated die is squared off......I wouldn't like that. However, they are a vast improvement over the new Home Depot generation Kleins with their chipped tooth looking die.



Yes, they got the wrong picture at Amazon. Check out Enco industrial supply.

I see what you mean about the squared off die on the SO's non insulated part. To be honest I don't think I e ever used the non insulate portion of those particular crimpers but if I do use them I'd like em to do a good job.

Anybody want to place bets on what I'd actually get if I ordered a pair of those Ideals off Amazon? Would I get the ideals in the description, or the Klein Linemans in the picture? Lol
 
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redwrench60

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I prefer using non-insulated connectors if I can because they they take up less space in a wire loom. As long as I got room to get in there with the heat shrink and Zippo lighter.

Zippo lighter on heat shrink?! CWP, we gotta get you in one of those little butane powered crack smoker torches! :lol:
 

jeremy v

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Before you go buying new crimpers you might consider just fixing the Channellock 909s you have if you have a Dremel. Mine worked fine out of the box when using good quality crimps with thicker barrels, but they did not crimp cheaper crimps (like the Harbor Freight sets) that I often use to save money on jobs that are either not critical or do not need to work for very long (temp installs). I found the issue was just that the cutting jaws on the end of the crimpers would close and touch before the crimp dies pinched together enough to get a nice crimp. I took a Dremel and ground down the flat side of the wire cutting tip surface so that the crimpers can close tighter before stopping and now they crimp everything I put in them just fine. I will go take some pictures and post them for you within a few minutes so you and others can see what I mean.
 
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jeremy v

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OK, here are my pics.

If you look at my modded 909 pics and compare them to the stock OP pics you can see that my jaws now close more tightly before the cutters touch. I can now crimp anything just fine. I did test crimps when first performing the mod by using the super cheap red 22 gauge harbor freight insulated connectors (with 24 gauge wire in them for an extra test) and they all crimped tightly and held the wire just fine. Anyone that has a set of the harbor freight crimps knows they are some of the thinnest and flimsiest crimp connectors you can possibly buy, so if a crimper works with them it will also work with any other brand's thicker crimp barrels. The last picture with the cream colored background is a repost of one of the OP's stock crimper pics so you can see the difference in how far mine now close compared to stock. As you can see it didn't take much, but the difference is noticeable when comparing the gap visually.

As long as you only grind back the flat anvil side of the cutters it is pretty easy to make it so that no light gets between the cutting surfaces when finished even though you are only doing it by hand. You can also do this mod with a fine tooth flat file instead of a Dremel with a fine abrasive wheel, but it will take longer. You can see by looking at the last two pictures of my crimpers that the beveled edge on only one side of the cutter end is bright steel instead of dark from the forging and stock dip coating like the top edge. The bright side with the flat anvil cutting edge is the only side I did any grinding work on.

Another mod that I also did to the 909 cutters (that you can see in my pictures) is a pin to prevent the handles from opening up too far. Stock, the bottom handle would drop away from the palm of my hand further than I could reach with my fingers to close it back up (when crimping one-handed), so I used a drill press and drilled a hole in a spot that allowed the handles to open up as much as necessary for the largest diameter crimp the crimper itself could handle. Then I just pounded a finishing nail into the hole I drilled and cut off both ends. It took about 10 minutes total to make the stop pin mod. That mod was one of the best mods I have ever done to a hand tool from a "bang for the buck" perspective. It greatly increased the user friendliness of the tool.
 

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