Two 220 volt outlets on one breaker!

bcoke · Sep 4, 2013

I need to know if it is safe to have 2 outlet locations on one 30amp circuit run with 8/3 wire ? What I want to end up with is an outlet for my compressor at about 35 feet from panel and another 20 feet from that for another need {table saw,mig welder , compressor etc...... now AT NO TIME will these outlets be in use at the same time! My question is how to wire the outlets {and what kind of outlets} an A/B switch to direct power to which outlet is needed or what? Any help would be appreciated especially a diagram thanks bcokehttp://garagejournal.com/forum/images/smilies/bowdown.gif

5mall5nail5 · Sep 4, 2013

I just asked this question and, as long as you don't over draw the circuit and trip the breaker, it's "safe". The response though, was that there's no easy way to join #6 or #8 wire together. There are no #8 wire nuts or whatever.

matt151617 · Sep 4, 2013

5mall5nail5 said:
there's no easy way to join #6 or #8 wire together. There are no #8 wire nuts or whatever.

Actually, they make large wire nuts that'll join up to 2 #6 wires. Split bolts or terminal blocks are another option, with shrink wrap and lots of 33+ tape.

What sort of amps do you actually plan on pulling? Because a 30 amp circuit would handle 10/3 just fine for those distances. Personally, I'd make two seperate runs on the off chance someone didn't realize it and plugged 2 things in at once.

sberry · Sep 4, 2013

I stirred stuff in another thread and its not worth switching or there is no good way to do this. I am a firm believer in the fact an air comp should be on its own circuit. I wouldn't daisy chain it together. I could share another breaker with a second welder convenience outlet and ideally home run to the panel. Buy some 10/2 wire and 2 30A breakers. 2 outlets. Having a separate wire would leave an outside chance he could change a breaker for a buzzer but the machines like the 211 thrive on a 10/30.

Highbeam · Sep 4, 2013

The breaker protects the wire. If you plug in too many things then the breaker will pop and no harm done.

It is not fun but very possible to splice/join #6 and #8 wires.

sberry · Sep 4, 2013

The new welding machines are great. I have wiring that supports heavier units but they don't stray far from home, I use a compact 230 feeder that would run like it was at home on 100 ft or more of 10. They allow wire size affordable enough it makes if foolish not to stop and run an outlet for it to a convenient place often by passing extension cords all together.

Don't always got to take out a small loan to run 60 ft of wire.

Not only that I remember all the fuss I used to go to when I was a sprout about making the world a perfect place. I hooked up, used a lot of equipment, I cannot recall a single time I have seen a fire or few cases something didn't work because of inadequate wire on an install and never an issue of rating a cable by an amp especially on intermitant equipment like a comp or welder.

James-W · Sep 4, 2013

If it were me, I would run a separate circuit for each 220 volt outlet. While at the present time you may not be planning on running more than one piece of equipment at a time, perhaps in the future you may feel differently. By spending some extra money right now you will be prepared if you eventuality do change your mind.

pattenp · Sep 4, 2013

First, if you only need 30A then #10 is all you need, not #8. Second, the NEC doesn't specify a limit of outlets per circuit, but some local codes do. As an example, Virginia residential construction code doesn't allow multiple outlets on circuits greater than 20A.

sberry · Sep 4, 2013

If a guy has a plasma and a comp they may run at the same time, if 2 welders in a home garage shared a circuit its likely not at the same time. I think I only have 1 case where there are multiple 240 and I have an outlet on the hoist for a mig welder. Same wire, same breaker, not used at the same time almost by default.

Highbeam · Sep 4, 2013

The other thing is, while you may not intend to run the compressor at the same time as whatever else is plugged in to the other 240 circuit, the air compressor is an "automatic" device. You just turn it on and leave it on like a water heater. You don't actively use the compressor as you would a table saw so it could turn on any old time.

Still, no harm done but inconvenient for sure.

Not unlike those of us with smallish 60 amp feeds to our garage subpanels. I can easily overload that 60 amp main breaker if I try but I know that no harm will be done.

sberry · Sep 4, 2013

James-W said:
If it were me, I would run a separate circuit for each 220 volt outlet. While at the present time you may not be planning on running more than one piece of equipment at a time, perhaps in the future you may feel differently. By spending some extra money right now you will be prepared if you eventuality do change your mind.

Yes in Joe 6 pack common garage unless there was special circumstances which would include heating equipment or 250 class mig screaming its balls out doing dump truck work a guy could score a few feet or get wild with a roll of 10 and have a wire right to the box for each one, no splicey. Breaker-wire-outlet.

Even most of my 120V in my shop are like that.

Spudland_Dave · Sep 4, 2013

Highbeam said:
The other thing is, while you may not intend to run the compressor at the same time as whatever else is plugged in to the other 240 circuit, the air compressor is an "automatic" device. You just turn it on and leave it on like a water heater. You don't actively use the compressor as you would a table saw so it could turn on any old time.

True & False...

Its probably true in 90% of compressor setups, but I bet for 10% of us, its no different then a table saw...I always unplug my compressor when done with it. I will be hardwiring it once I get it setup in her permanent location in the new shop, and I wired it into a shutoff for that exact reason. Yes, it could turn on at any ol time when its plugged in...chances are though, I'm actively using it and that's the reason it turns on anyways.

Back to the Original thought...to me, the problem really lies in the actual physical daisy chaining of the outlets... your normal 15-20A outlets are MADE with multiple connections to make it easy to string together receps. If MFG's made recep's with provisions built in for it, I couldn't see a reason NOT to do it. Of course, its fun enough stuffing a single end of 6-3 into a 14-50 and into a 4" Square box..you would need a 4" Deep 4" square box to get it all in there....
I asked a similar question a few months back..

rsanter · Sep 4, 2013

I did exactly what you are talking about with no troubles
As long as you will not be using both you can't overload it.
Side note....I removed the plugs and breaker before selling the house. Can't be sure what the next owner would do so I pulled them

Bob

theoldwizard1 · Sep 4, 2013

I'm not sure folks are making an issues about splicing #6 or #8 wire. IMHO, the biggest issue is having a box big enough to house the splice and extra wire.

The old fashioned method is split bolts.

View media item 33173
Use the proper size. Use 3M splicing tape or 3M friction tape.

The Ideal 46-400 is actually for underground, but no reason it can not be used above ground. Handles up to 8 gauge.

For larger gauge wire, use Tyco Electronics individual splice blocks, one per conductor, up to 1/0.

View media item 33174

sberry · Sep 4, 2013

Not unlike those of us with smallish 60 amp feeds to our garage subpanels. I can easily overload that 60 amp main breaker if I try but I know that no harm will be done.

If you don't mind to elaborate. Have you actually overloaded the 60?

I have seen some baked 60A fuse entrance panels where they kept boogering on and added dryer and AC or window AC along with heavy microwave use etc, house full of kids. electric water heater.

sberry · Sep 4, 2013

What are you guys plugging in to that requires all these heavy outlets? Run a wire back to the panel a gage heavier than the minimums called for in the owners manual for each piece of equipment. A separate wire allows for easy changes if it would come up.

A SQD 30A breaker takes 2 wires, perfect for installing a couple small welder outlets.

Two 220 volt outlets on one breaker!

bcoke

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5mall5nail5

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matt151617

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sberry

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Highbeam

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James-W

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sberry

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Highbeam

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sberry

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