Pros/cons of garage apartment?

kripple4280 · Sep 10, 2013

right now I'm living in PA attending wyotech for general automotive with chassis fab and high performance engine building. Anyway when I finish up here I'm moving back to the middle TN area but don't really want to move back in with my parents so I'm thinking of building like a 4 bay shop 2 bays for the bikes and 2 bays for cars one of the bays will have a 4 post lift and the other maybe a scissor lift or frame table? And putting an apartment over it. Was just wondering if anyone here has ever done this and looking at the pros/cons versus a traditional houses and maybe you guys could share some pics ??

Pluribus · Sep 11, 2013

I would consider doing it myself if the longer-term goal was to build a separate house, detached from the shop building. At that point, the upstairs could become storage and/or a game room.

No matter how well you think you have it sealed, there will be fumes and potentially dust, depending on how much grinding/welding, etc. I know someone who built a shop like that for woodworking, and they did it with no internal stairs/doors to the upstairs to try to cut down on dust and fumes from spraying coatings. Having a shop where you're actively working on things and occasionally running an engine is different than a house with a garage under part of it where you're just parking. Another consideration is fire. Even though the odds are pretty slim, fires do happen occasionally in shops. If your living quarters are above, then fire destroys your living quarters as well as your shop.

To sum it up, I'd prefer something different, but I could live with it for a while.

HotrodHR · Sep 11, 2013

It would be real cool to find an old building in town with a store/work area below and an apartment on top, maybe an old dealership, hardware store or firehouse....

just dreaming...

kripple4280 · Sep 11, 2013

Pluribus said:
I would consider doing it myself if the longer-term goal was to build a separate house, detached from the shop building. At that point, the upstairs could become storage and/or a game room.

No matter how well you think you have it sealed, there will be fumes and potentially dust, depending on how much grinding/welding, etc. I know someone who built a shop like that for woodworking, and they did it with no internal stairs/doors to the upstairs to try to cut down on dust and fumes from spraying coatings. Having a shop where you're actively working on things and occasionally running an engine is different than a house with a garage under part of it where you're just parking. Another consideration is fire. Even though the odds are pretty slim, fires do happen occasionally in shops. If your living quarters are above, then fire destroys your living quarters as well as your shop.

To sum it up, I'd prefer something different, but I could live with it for a while.

Yeah that's exactly the plan is buy like 20 acres to build the shop/apartment and MX track on and live in the upstairs apartment until I can afford the house I want. Then turn the upstairs into an office/gym and maybe keep the bedroom for guests

brum · Sep 12, 2013

kripple4280 said:
Yeah that's exactly the plan is buy like 20 acres to build the shop/apartment and MX track on and live in the upstairs apartment until I can afford the house I want. Then turn the upstairs into an office/gym and maybe keep the bedroom for guests

How are you gonna afford that? Sounds pricey.

My advice as a 24 year old. Live with your parents as long as necessary. If it weren't for my job being in a different city and now having a 6mo baby, I'd still be living at home. I graduated from college 1.5 years ago.

theoldwizard1 · Sep 12, 2013

brum said:
How are you gonna afford that? Sounds pricey.

Same thought ! Where are you going to get the M-O-N-E-Y !!

Also, many cities have restrictions about "living" in light industrial buildings.

captain14 · Sep 12, 2013

Financing is a big key here. Are you going to have to finance it or all your own cash? Most places will consider this an unusual deal and may not accept it with all the tightening of loans. Could you build a small house with a freestanding garage that can be built small with expansion in mind as the budget allows?

sberry · Sep 12, 2013

I did, not having the cost of a house paid for my shop.

ratdoggy · Sep 12, 2013

Don't want to rain on your parade but.......
Sounds kind of pie in the sky for someone in school, possibly not making a mint when he does get a job.
Really how many chassis fab high performance shops are in your area?
I'd make the goals more realistic and live with mom and dad as long as they will let you and bank as much money as I could while doing so

crewchief888 · Sep 12, 2013

i lived above a body shop for a while.

wasnt a pleasant experience

:beer:

John in OH · Sep 12, 2013

I tend to agree with many others above with respect to the cost vs. your earning ability unless you are independently wealthy!

Your first step should be a realistic appraisal of what your future earning ability will be and work from there to prepare a budget. With limited work experience, you may find it takes most of your income just to live. Food, transportation, insurance, cable, clothing, tools, misc. entertainment, etc. eat up $$ real fast.

As my dad used to say, "Money may not make the world go around, but it sure greases the wheel."

theoldwizard1 · Sep 12, 2013

Pro :

Short commute
Less capital investment

Con:

You will always be available for work (which may be be what you ... today)
It could cause tax issues
The apartment will smell like the shop
Not many females will find this arrangement to their liking (see 1 and 3).
Local zoning/ordinances

CNGsaves · Sep 12, 2013

Likely be cheaper and more effective in long-run to just buy a used pull-trailer camper. Live in camper while you're making the money to build house that you really want.

Make shop big enough that camper can go in shop during winter, then outside during good weather. Lot easier to not immediately need septic for the house/shop as you could haul trailer to a sewage dump periodically.

Why spend money building "apartment" in shop that won't be used once you build house?? Plus local housing codes likely won't allow living quarters to be inside the fire risky shop.

justanengineer · Sep 12, 2013

As others have said, no offense but unless youre independently wealthy or have a secret stash youre going to be seriously short of money, especially if you have outstanding student loans as most banks wouldnt loan to someone in your situation. Beyond that, fresh out of school and fresh off of a move Id highly suggest moving home for a year or two until youre at your first job, its proving pretty stable, and youve got $20k+ saved, then move to an ok apartment. No disrespect intended but to be realistic, lube techs dont make that much and many techs every year get "high performance" degrees, they dont really qualify you for anything.

To answer your question directly, no I wouldnt want to live over a shop. As oldwizard said, they smell and females dont care for it. Personally, Id also be seriously concerned about fires and also have other safety concerns, but I get into fabrication a bit deeper than most. FWIW, SWMBO works with me in our garage several evenings each week and loves hanging out there, but Ive suggested similarly and in her words "its too much, life shouldnt center around the garage."

koditten · Sep 12, 2013

The wife and I did it for 3 years. Built a small apartment in the back of the shop. Basicly we "squatted" on our own property. The township cought up with us eventially. We didn't care. Every penny of not paing rent went to the down payment of our new home.

It was fun, but illeagal. I'd do it again if I was young and poor like we were.

KO

6768rogues · Sep 12, 2013

I have a 40 by 60 building about an hour from home on a farm I own. The building is not used for farming, it only stores a few of my collector cars. I built a 12 by 20 studio apartment with a full bathroom in the front corner. The room has 2 windows and a door. Being on a farm and about 800 feet from the road, I just built the room without getting permits. I do not do repair work or welding in that building, there is another building on the property for such things.
If you want to do it legally, you will probably be required by code to have the living space separated by fire rated construction from the shop area. I know our code but not yours, so you might have to have separate heating and ventilating systems. The code will be concerned about fire hazards and fumes. Depending on your code and the nature of the work you will be doing, it might be flat out illegal to combine a residential unit and a working repair facility.

sberry · Sep 13, 2013

Don't worry about the women. I had more than one say,,, I like the way you operate.

Thumper68 · Sep 13, 2013

I bought a carriage house with 2 apts on the upper floor and a 42 x 42 shop under when I was in my early 20's all I had to do to meet the rental requirements was to put up a 6 mil vapor barrier and 5/8"s drywall between the inter stairway and the ceiling.

We lived there for 5 years after we were married.

AirJunky · Sep 13, 2013

I have a friend who owns what he calls a "shophouse". It's like a 60' x 120' pole building that is an open shop on one end, and then the other end is a 2 story, 2 bedroom, 2 bath condo... around 1200 or 1300 sq ft. The interior & exterior of the pole building is done up like a regular house, ie; sheetrock, siding, trim, etc. He lives with his wife & 1 son in the place & they love it.

The shop space is big enough, I think I could drive my truck & boat inside, do a U turn & pull out the other door.

Might be pie in the sky, but gives you something to aim for. Good luck!

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The big table is in the shop space, but it's just a 10' x 10' party table/dance stage.

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metalhead212121 · Sep 13, 2013

For the record I have dreams similar to the orginal poster.... One issue that wasnt touched on was ROI (Return On Investment). You could build something thats 100% perfect as far as building codes go, be well within your right to build something as far as individual town laws go ect ect.... Years down the road if and when you want to sell you might get less than what you have spent on the house/shop/property.

Even if you find a fellow gearhead that FALLS IN LOVE with property that you KILLED yourself to get/build he/she SHOULD realize that he/she (we on garage journal) are the minority when it comes to home buyers. There for the potenial new owner of the property can strong arm you into a price more to his/her liking than your asking price. Most people arent looking at the size of the garage and all it has to offer. Just my .02.

bgarrett · Sep 13, 2013

kripple4280 said:
right now I'm living in PA attending wyotech for general automotive with chassis fab and high performance engine building. Anyway when I finish up here I'm moving back to the middle TN area but don't really want to move back in with my parents so I'm thinking of building like a 4 bay shop 2 bays for the bikes and 2 bays for cars one of the bays will have a 4 post lift and the other maybe a scissor lift or frame table? And putting an apartment over it. Was just wondering if anyone here has ever done this and looking at the pros/cons versus a traditional houses and maybe you guys could share some pics ??

Look at the prices here
http://www.steelbuilding.com/

The safety man told me that it is impossible to keep smoke out of your living quarters and its the smoke, not the fire that kills you.I intend to prove him wrong about sealing the smoke out. You should too.
and sprinkler system

SweetD · Sep 13, 2013

AirJunky said:
I have a friend who owns what he calls a "shophouse". It's like a 60' x 120' pole building that is an open shop on one end, and then the other end is a 2 story, 2 bedroom, 2 bath condo... around 1200 or 1300 sq ft. The interior & exterior of the pole building is done up like a regular house, ie; sheetrock, siding, trim, etc. He lives with his wife & 1 son in the place & they love it.

The shop space is big enough, I think I could drive my truck & boat inside, do a U turn & pull out the other door.

Might be pie in the sky, but gives you something to aim for. Good luck!

Man. That looks like fun.

:beer:

Dave

NUTTSGT · Sep 13, 2013

I think most of us here at GJ have this dream to build something like what you are thinking of. Better be prepared to spend alot of money to build something like that and about three times as much if you have somebody else do it.

ZRX61 · Sep 13, 2013

ratdoggy said:
Don't want to rain on your parade but.......
Sounds kind of pie in the sky for someone in school, possibly not making a mint when he does get a job.

Especially given the reputation of Wyotech graduates.

Justanoldguy · Sep 13, 2013

There sure are a bunch of wet blankets on this forum.
What business is it of yours where he gets the money?
None of your business and he never came here for financial advise.
Steal the guys dream why don't ya.
Odds are he won't post here again.
I sure wouldn't.

sberry · Sep 14, 2013

There are so many factors here its impossible to calculate the worth of it all. If a guy has property and needs a building with full utilities it could certainly pay to slide by living in it.

sberry · Sep 14, 2013

I like the pics on the last page, we should see a few more similar.

Playwme · Sep 14, 2013

If you have 20 acres why live next to the grease, dirt and petrol fumes?

I've got 3 portable site sheds on my 40 acres. Total cost was under $10k.
Whatever you spend building another story and fitting out an apartment would be similar to just constructing and fitting out another small building which can become a guest building later on down the track when the grand plans are realised.

vetron · Sep 14, 2013

assuming its legal, he can afford it, zoning isn't an issue, and there's room to build a house or put a trailer house there later, then i'd do it at his age. but that is a lot of IFs.

Copperclockmaker · Sep 14, 2013

I would modify the plan to be get some land outside the city limits without nasty restrictions, put a cheap trailer on it, then build a killer shop across the yard. I lucked out when I was in my early 20s and found a 3 acre plot where the trailer had been repo'd. I had a spot to put a trailer, already leveled, with septic, water, and electric hook ups. I lived with my father in law for about 2 years while I was working on getting a trailer, getting it hooked up and then liveable. What you want is not totally crazy, but you will have to be flexible with it when funds, realty, and reality get in the way. Good luck.

Fifty · Sep 14, 2013

You should be renting. I don't know about you but I've never known a 24 year old that owned property. Ever. I just leased an enormous 50x100 3 story shop/barn way out in the country for peanuts. My credit check was a handshake. The landlord is the one that suggested I build living quarters inside. I won't be living there full time, but I'll be sleeping there during the week. It probably won't be legal, but I don't really care. I doubt it will be perfectly sealed but I plan on having a constant low exhaust fan going in the living area. (Maybe backwards so that the whole thing is under positive pressure)

Fire is by far my biggest concern. I will be installing a dedicated fire escape door in the back, and maybe even a fire pole to get off the second story in a hurry. Networked smoke detectors and fire extinguishers will be everywhere.

Justanoldguy · Sep 14, 2013

Fifty said:
You should be renting. I don't know about you but I've never known a 24 year old that owned property. Ever.

You obviously need to get out more then.
It's very common for young guys town property.
Where's the future in renting when you can own. :headscrat

Fifty · Sep 14, 2013

Justanoldguy said:
You obviously need to get out more then.
It's very common for young guys town property.
Where's the future in renting when you can own.

Maybe if Mommy buys it for them. It is not very common for young guys to be able to afford property, and it's even less common for a bank to give them a loan on property. A house is one thing, land and/or a shop is almost impossible for an old person with good credit to finance!

If there are any 20-somethings here reading this with acreage and a shop raise your hand, I'd love to hear what you have!

RVDan · Sep 14, 2013

Fifty said:
You should be renting. I don't know about you but I've never known a 24 year old that owned property. Ever.

Yeah when I was 24 and wanted to buy property I listened to people just like you.

It was fifteen years later before I had the chance to buy again. It cost twice as much, my mortgage payment is fifty percent more for a extra ten yen years and my income is only twenty percent higher than it was. What is the advantage of not buying when I was 24?

The best time to buy was 15 years ago. The second best time is now. Property values are always going to go up in the long run, why wait and pay more?

Justanoldguy · Sep 14, 2013

Fifty said:
Maybe if Mommy buys it for them.

You sound like a nasty ***** to me. :wtf:

Jealous of the younger generation?? or what?

John in OH · Sep 14, 2013

Justanoldguy said:
There sure are a bunch of wet blankets on this forum.
What business is it of yours where he gets the money?
None of your business and he never came here for financial advise.
Steal the guys dream why don't ya.
Odds are he won't post here again.
I sure wouldn't.

Sorry if I came across sounding like an old fart and stomping on his dream. Sure wasn't my intent. I guess I didn't really address the "pros/cons" of the apt-over-shop question, but he asked for "pros/cons" so I was trying to set the stage for a rational approach to his objective.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the apt-over-shop idea, but it's a rare situation where someone can achieve their dream without realistic planning. If you want to get from Point A (tech school) to Point B (owning a shop and home) you've got to realistically establish a plan that includes the probability of getting a job in your desired field, the realistic income that can be earned from that job, cost of buying tools and equipment to get established in your profession, the status of real estate, market, zoning, resale potential, cost of living, family status, credit rating, girl-friend status, taxes, insurance, and countless other personal objectives.

There's no point in creating a dream that has no hope of being achieved. All that does is lead to repeated disappointments. Step 1 - set your objective (as he has done already with the apartment over shop idea); Step 2 - make your plan considering all the elements mentioned above; Step 3 - determine if the objective is achievable based on the plan; Step 4 (if necessary) - adjust the objective based on what the plan will support.

Ya gotta be ready to make some hard choices ... maybe work 2 jobs, maybe live with the parents for awhile, maybe temporarily rent a 3-bay shop down the street instead of owing your own 4-bay shop/apartment, maybe dump the high-maintenance girl friend .... (well, I guess that one depends on how hot she really is!) ... maybe drive the old beater for a few more years, etc., etc.

Justanoldguy · Sep 14, 2013

You guys are missing my point.
Untill he reveals his financial position
(not that he should anyway)
then we have no right to assume he
has no money because he is young
and doing a course.
Judgemental is what it is.
He may be doing the course purely
for the skills and not the income.
Think about that.

Fifty · Sep 14, 2013

Justanoldguy said:
You sound like a nasty ***** to me.
Jealous of the younger generation?? or what?

Wow. Judgmental much? I'm just pointing out that 24 year olds rarely have money or credit. Am I wrong? Is it better for everybody to be delusional and say "yeah, go buy that 40 acre ranch and build your dream shop"? That's never going to happen.

Justanoldguy said:
You guys are missing my point.
He may be doing the course purely
for the skills and not the income.
Think about that.

You mean because he won the lottery instead but forgot to mention that part? Yeah, that seems real likely. If he really has the money for this then he can come tell us. Until then we are all going to assume he is an average 24 year old just out of school. We don't talk about unicorns and gold bars here.

RVDan said:
Yeah when I was 24 and wanted to buy property I listened to people just like you.

Nobody should be "listening" to anybody here. If he has the money to buy, then by all means, buy!! More likely, he doesn't, so I'm trying to give him some realistic advice other than to live with mommy. Did you have money to buy when you were 24? Probably not. If you did and rented anyway, then yes, that was dumb and I'm not suggesting that.

CNGsaves · Sep 14, 2013

No reason you can't have the dream & make it happen. Key point is have a plan, & execute the plan.

Research and know costs and utilize all free or cheap solutions along the way. Never a better time to buy LOW on real estate (plus low interest rates), especially if you find a Repo where some other schmuck loaded up his credit card, spent all his money on the wife, and status symbols.

Friend of mine owned his first house at 19 and has rolled over gains with multiple houses for 30 years to be in $400K house free-n-clear in California (before the crash)!

Eliminate any unnecessary expenses, and sock your money away and purchase what YOU want . . . . . NOT the little bird advice of SWMBO !! Also, key part of gameplan . . . do NOT pay others rent !!

Good luck.

Fifty · Sep 14, 2013

CNGsaves said:
Also, key part of gameplan . . . do NOT pay others rent !!

So in other words live with mommy? Or live in a box? Or pay cash for your house right out of school? Are those the 3 options?

Renting is what you do while you work toward your goal of owning. Or you live with mommy. Owning is a great goal to have but that just doesn't happen right out of school. Maybe a little cheap house, definitely not land and a newly built shop.

Also renting works BETTER for a lot of people. If I owned the shop I just rented it would cost more per month, and I'd have to pay taxes and maintenance. Instead that's somebody else's problem and I can sign the lease for as long as I like. The last tenant was there over 20 years.

Pros/cons of garage apartment?

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