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Running Electrical 140 feet to woodshop

Screwitharder

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Hi everybody- I'm going to be wiring 100 amps to a woodshop next week that's 140 feet from my house. I have a split from the meter, 200 into the house and 200 to a panel mounted on the outside of the house. I'm going to trench to the shop 18 inches deep and run Four (4) 1/0 THWN single strand ALuminum in Sch 80 2 inch PVC to a panel in the shop. I know to unbond the neutral and ground on the shop panel, sink 2 rods at the shop. What I need to know is:

1. Underneath the meter/panel on the outside of the house is a concrete slab, so I can't run straight into the ground. I would like to run the wire along one wall in metal conduit, 3 feet from the ground, then down to a connector, into the ground and then into PVC. Is there any problem with this?

2. I won't be able to trench straight to the shop, I have to make 3 turns to avoid a septic, etc. Is that okay?

3. Is 1/0 too large for 2 inch PVC (4 strands) going 140 feet at 100 amps

4. I'm planning on pulling thru 10 feet of PVC at a time and then connecting the PVC together as I go along). Has anybody done it this way? I wondered if the PVC glue might hurt the wire insulation

Thanks for any help. I've wired 10 interiors, never run a feed outdoors.
 
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Norcal

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1/0 is fine in 2", I assume aluminum conductors? The grounding conductor does not need to be 1/0, but take note of NEC article 250.122(B) which I cannot post because have to reload the 2011 NEC back on this computer due to a restore.:(


BTW, the NEC requires the conduit to be installed as a complete system before pulling the conductors in, w/ some rope & as few bends as possible, (NEC limits one to 360 degree max) it will not be a hard pull w/ aluminum conductors.
 

soj

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Hi everybody- I'm going to be wiring 100 amps to a woodshop next week that's 140 feet from my house. I have a split from the meter, 200 into the house and 200 to a panel mounted on the outside of the house. I'm going to trench to the shop 18 inches deep and run Four (4) 1/0 THWN single strand ALuminum in Sch 80 2 inch PVC to a panel in the shop. I know to unbond the neutral and ground on the shop panel, sink 2 rods at the shop. What I need to know is:

1. Underneath the meter/panel on the outside of the house is a concrete slab, so I can't run straight into the ground. I would like to run the wire along one wall in metal conduit, 3 feet from the ground, then down to a connector, into the ground and then into PVC. Is there any problem with this?

What do you mean by "a connector"? If you are not using a pull box of any kind, I would think the metal and PVC can be joined with a threaded connector. Why are you using some metal and some PVC? Sch 80 PVC is good for above ground, Sch 40 is OK in the ground.

2. I won't be able to trench straight to the shop, I have to make 3 turns to avoid a septic, etc. Is that okay?

How sharp are these turns? Do they require elbows, or can you just make long turns and bend the conduit? The electricians here can advise on max number of degrees of turns in a single conduit pull.

3. Is 1/0 too large for 2 inch PVC (4 strands) going 140 feet at 100 amps

4. I'm planning on pulling thru 10 feet of PVC at a time and then connecting the PVC together as I go along). Has anybody done it this way? I wondered if the PVC glue might hurt the wire insulation

A conduit run has to be completely assembled before pulling in the wire. I am sure one of the GJ electricians can quote the code on this.

Thanks for any help. I've wired 10 interiors, never run a feed outdoors.

Some of my questions above (and many more) will be asked by the electricians here, I am just the advance man.:lol_hitti
 

wyliesdiesels

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You could actually use #1 AL @ that distance! And the ground wire/4th wire can be #8 if u use CU and #6 if u use AL!

I advise against gluing and pulling the wire as u go because the glue CAN damage the insulation on the wire since the glue is a thermal chemical compound.
 
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Screwitharder

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Thanks Norcal, soj, wyliesdiesels,

I will use #1 Al and #6 ground then. Good to know to glue conduit first, thought I was being clever!
The bends can be slight (no elbow necessary). Any difference between running the conduit behind or in front of house (I live in the woods)?
Also, if I go underneath my drive way to 24 inches, is that sufficient in Schedule 80?
I was going to use metal on the house because I thought it would look better than Sch 80. I was going to go down to the 18 inch trench and then use a junction (that part I'm not sure about) to go to PVC. Maybe PVC all the way then as soj hinted at.
I can't thank you enough for the help!!
 

pattenp

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The buried PVC only needs to be Sch40. The PVC above ground that is subject to possible damage needs to be Sch80. The PVC under the drive needs to be covered by 24 inches, through the yard it needs to be covered by 18 inches. You can use metal for the above ground portion if you want but it's not necessary.
 

CNGsaves

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What Country and State are you in as electrical codes vary by location??

That 18" depth for electrical conduit burial may not be enough.

Now would be good time to Update GJ Profile with Country / State / City.
 

pattenp

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Just a Tip. Put the pull rope in as you are gluing the conduit together. You can also use a shop vacuum to **** through a string with a small piece of cloth tied to it and then use the string to pull through a larger pull rope for pulling the wire. To clarify the 360 deg limit on turns is between pull points.
 

Kevin C

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Also try and have your joints all face the same way. That way in one direction its impossible to catch an edge when pulling.
 

pattenp

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That's good to do if you're using belled conduit. Using couplings doesn't matter. Just debur the inside edges to help prevent snags.

Also try and have your joints all face the same way. That way in one direction its impossible to catch an edge when pulling.
 

2ManyProjects

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Hi everybody- I'm going to be wiring 100 amps to a woodshop next week that's 140 feet from my house. I have a split from the meter, 200 into the house and 200 to a panel mounted on the outside of the house.

I'm not quite following your arithmetic. The above implies 400A service, total? 200A to feed the house is unsurprising; but where is that other 200A going, and why is only half that capacity making it to the garage/shop? I'm probably just confused by your phrasing; but please clarify.

Also, what else (if anything) besides the shop is (or will be) fed from that second 200A panel on the outside of the house? If the answer is "Nothing", then I don't see the point of the second panel. You need only a disconnect of some sort (the code jockeys can provide details); and AFAIK, it's supposed to be located at/near the point where the service cable enters the building being serviced (i.e., the garage/shop, in this case), not 100+ feet away on a different building.


You could actually use #1 AL @ that distance! And the ground wire/4th wire can be #8 if u use CU and #6 if u use AL!

Thanks Norcal, soj, wyliesdiesels,

I will use #1 Al and #6 ground then.

While AWG 1 AL will be barely adequate for 100A over 140 feet, it is indeed BARELY adequate, and doesn't leave you much (any, really) "fudge factor" to account for the additional voltage drop which will be imposed by whatever branch circuit runs you subsequently install (not to mention things like extension cords, etc.). So... If you're still willing to go with the AWG 1/0 AL (or upgrade to copper, at which point AWG 2 would be generous), I would suggest that it would NOT be a completely wasted investment. Now granted, odds are you could indeed "get away with" the AWG 1 AL; and you probably would not even notice any untoward effects unless you load down that 100A feeder to its absolute limit. But nonetheless, it's an "edge case"; and in such cases, I prefer to err on the side of "bigger is better."

FWIW, and all that.

 

pattenp

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What are you talking about? #1 AL is plenty for 100A. At a load of 100A at 140' the VD is at 3%.


While AWG 1 AL will be barely adequate for 100A over 140 feet, it is indeed BARELY adequate, and doesn't leave you much (any, really) "fudge factor" to account for the additional voltage drop which will be imposed by whatever branch circuit runs you subsequently install (not to mention things like extension cords, etc.). So... If you're still willing to go with the AWG 1/0 AL (or upgrade to copper, at which point AWG 2 would be generous), I would suggest that it would NOT be a completely wasted investment. Now granted, odds are you could indeed "get away with" the AWG 1 AL; and you probably would not even notice any untoward effects unless you load down that 100A feeder to its absolute limit. But nonetheless, it's an "edge case"; and in such cases, I prefer to err on the side of "bigger is better."

FWIW, and all that.

 

wyliesdiesels

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What are you talking about? #1 AL is plenty for 100A. At a load of 100A at 140' the VD is at 3%.

Pattenp- I wouldnt waste your time with him. Ive gotten in debates with him before, in other threads, over voltage drop and wire size. He has his own NON NEC formula that he uses to figure wire size. Since you, I, Aceman, speedy, and the rest of the sparkies on here agree on voltge drop/wire size in most every situation, I just ignore the weirdness from others!
 
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Screwitharder

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Thanks for the message. I live in Baltimore County, MD. I have a 200 amp panel on the outside of the house. No plans for the other 100 amps right now. I will run the 100 to the shop and into a 100 amp panel that I already have. 2 rods will run from this panel into the local ground. I'll go ahead anduse 1/0 then, thanks again.
 

2ManyProjects

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What are you talking about? #1 AL is plenty for 100A. At a load of 100A at 140' the VD is at 3%.

Which is already the maximum you want to allow at the load; and (as I mentioned) we have not yet accounted for the additional V.D. the branch circuit wiring will inevitably impose.

Like I said... Can he "get away with" AWG 1? Almost certainly. But it WON'T be ideal.

Pattenp- I wouldnt waste your time with him. Ive gotten in debates with him before, in other threads, over voltage drop and wire size. He has his own NON NEC formula that he uses to figure wire size.

I thought you might "bite" on that. :bitchslap

I used YOUR figure (21.2) for "K" when calculating this case, and THAT is what produced the "barely adequate" results for AWG 1 AL. Go ahead and run it yourself, if you don't trust the batteries in my calculator. You'll come up with a required minimum CM of 82,444, vs. 83,700 CM for AWG 1 -- i.e., right on the edge. And as I've repeatedly noted, whenever you get into such an "edge case", the prudent thing to do is to upsize one notch and remove all doubt.

 

wyliesdiesels

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Which is already the maximum you want to allow at the load; and (as I mentioned) we have not yet accounted for the additional V.D. the branch circuit wiring will inevitably impose.

Like I said... Can he "get away with" AWG 1? Almost certainly. But it WON'T be ideal.



I thought you might "bite" on that. :bitchslap

I used YOUR figure (21.2) for "K" when calculating this case, and THAT is what produced the "barely adequate" results for AWG 1 AL. Go ahead and run it yourself, if you don't trust the batteries in my calculator. You'll come up with a required minimum CM of 82,444, vs. 83,700 CM for AWG 1 -- i.e., right on the edge. And as I've repeatedly noted, whenever you get into such an "edge case", the prudent thing to do is to upsize one notch and remove all doubt.


The NEC doesnt REQUIRE voltage drop to be at or below a certain percentage. Rather, it only recommends 3% for feeders and 5% for branch circuits!

Since #1 would be at 3% VD, I fail to see how thats barely adequate since no more than 100a can be ran through the wire without the breaker tripping and the only way for voltage drop to increase would be to pull more than 100a through the wire! Now if the wire size was at or smaller than what was needed for 3%, then I would say barely adequate! But even 4% VD would be acceptable to most machines!

And i already did the math thus the reason I said #1 is fine!
 
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pattenp

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Wylie I'm with you on this. 2ManyProjects, your reasoning makes no sense to me. If the OP's loads are going to be approaching a 100A then he needs a bigger feed because of loads, not because of VD. VD in the case is of no consequence.

The NEC doesnt REQUIRE voltage drop to be at or below a certain percentage. Rather, it only recommends 3% for feeders and 5% for branch circuits!

Since #1 would be at 3% VD, I fail to see how thats barely adequate since no more than 100a can be ran through the wire without the breaker tripping and the only way for voltage drop to increase would be to pull more than 100a through the wire! Now if the wire size was at or smaller than what was needed for 3%, then I would say barely adequate! But even 4% VD would be acceptable to most machines!

And i already did the math thus the reason I said #1 is fine!
 

sberry

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This is going to work with either wire and then some, additional drag on branch circuits would only be compounded provided the main wire was heavily loaded, a long branch screaming its guts out at 20A, the owner will never notice the difference between the 2 wires.

That's the reality, if the cost difference was small, I was doing my own work, could easily find the materials I got nothing against a size up but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
 

sberry

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You can bend in the trench or use 45's, sometimes I pre glue coupleings, something I want to stick and worry about glue, let it dry but to tell the truth in the real world do this all the time, most of it don't glue or spread some on the male only, none in the bell, mostly for handling since I assembled all this at grade level and pushed it in the trench and shoved the risers over each end..
 

2ManyProjects

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The NEC doesnt REQUIRE voltage drop to be at or below a certain percentage.

The NEC (as amended by the applicable AHJ) is, by definition, the legally enforceable bare minimum which MUST be met, regardless of any other considerations. It does not even pretend to represent anything approaching "Best Practice". If all you are concerned about is squeaking by the electrical inspection, then you would find AWG 1 AL perfectly acceptable for this application. But merely "meeting code" is virtually never the same thing as "doing the right thing" -- and this case is no exception to that rule.

Rather, it only recommends 3% for feeders and 5% for branch circuits!

Which is far too loose for my taste, especially in an application where you can expect motors to comprise a large/important part of the load. Probably THE worst thing you can do to a motor, both in terms of its day-to-day performance and its long-term life expectancy, is to feed it with marginal/inadequate voltage. At a 3% V.D., we're already down 7.2V (relative to 240V); add that "NEC recommended" 5% for the branch circuit, and we're now down more than 18.8V. That's just plain too much, no matter what the NEC might "allow". And note, we have not yet even touched on the fact that, on any given day, that "240V" putatively supplied by the PoCo might actually be as little as 216V! How happy is your "240V" air compressor going to be, trying to start up (probably against a partially pressurized tank) on only 197 volts?

Since #1 would be at 3% VD, I fail to see how thats barely adequate since no more than 100a can be ran through the wire without the breaker tripping and the only way for voltage drop to increase would be to pull more than 100a through the wire!

It's not that simple -- and I'm pretty sure you know that. For one thing, just how precise (and over what sort of time constant) do you think the trip-point tolerance on that main breaker is, anyway?

Now if the wire size was at or smaller than what was needed for 3%, then I would say barely adequate!

Which, as shown in my previous post, is precisely the case here. The calculated minimum required CM area is within ~1.5% of that nominally provided by AWG 1. If you don't consider that to be right there "at what's needed for 3%", then it's clear that you're just splitting hairs for the sake of supporting your argument. Consider: How precise was the OP's estimate of a 140-foot run length? And how much additional "effective run length" are you factoring in to account for the additional resistance imposed by each mechanical connection (of which there are at least four in the complete round-trip circuit loop, even presuming an unbroken wire with no intermediate junctions)? Care to re-run the calculations for an effective wire length of, say, 143 feet? So yes, as I've said multiple times now: THIS IS AN EDGE CASE. And like ALL edge cases, the prudent thing to do is go to the next-larger size wire.

But even 4% VD would be acceptable to most machines!

Maybe. Maybe not. There are too many variables involved to make any sweeping pronouncements either way. But even presuming that is correct, what size wire would we then need to use for the branch circuit(s), to hold THEIR additional V.D. to no more than 1.0%? More to the point, why put yourself in a position to need to worry about that?


Wylie I'm with you on this. 2ManyProjects, your reasoning makes no sense to me. If the OP's loads are going to be approaching a 100A then he needs a bigger feed because of loads, not because of VD.

On the contrary... When designing the system, if the panel CAN support a 100A draw, we have to assume that it WILL impose (at least) that much draw on the feeder, at least sometimes. Now obviously, in most "real life" cases, people don't routinely max out their incoming service. But that is irrelevant, really. Since it CAN happen, the only prudent assumption is that it WILL happen; and then design for the worst-case scenario.

Look, guys... As I've said from the very beginning, the OP very probably CAN "get away with" AWG 1 AL. That has been the context of all my subsequent comments, and is not under debate. So citing code requirements for the "bare legal minimum" as some sort of counter-argument completely misses the point I've been trying to make. The real question is, is it wise to settle for that "bare legal minimum" -- especially when it is relatively easy (at this stage in the game) to render the issue moot, and pretty much ensure the problem will never crop up regardless of how the 1,001 other variables which have yet to be nailed down happen to shake out?

 

sberry

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I must have wires more than a dozen garages, maybe 2 with 222-4 and fed them with a 60, 25 yrs and not one ever called about a trip including a couple that worked daily in auto repair.
 

Aceman

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2manyprojects, do you have any real life experience with voltage drop calcs and long wire runs? How many equipment failures or voltage drop issues have you seen from sizing wire right to the "edge" as you call it?
 

2ManyProjects

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2manyprojects, do you have any real life experience with voltage drop calcs and long wire runs?

Yes.

How many equipment failures or voltage drop issues have you seen from sizing wire right to the "edge" as you call it?

Operational difficulties more than outright equipment failures. The latter tend to take a while to develop, unless things are WILDLY off-spec; and by that time, it is often difficult to precisely pinpoint a single proximate cause. OTOH, it is sufficiently well known that marginal/inadequate voltage is NOT kind to equipment (and motors especially) that it simply would not be reasonable to discount this as at least part of the issue.

 

wyliesdiesels

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2manyprojects, do you have any real life experience with voltage drop calcs and long wire runs? How many equipment failures or voltage drop issues have you seen from sizing wire right to the "edge" as you call it?

Aceman- he sounds like the engineer type to me!
 

Kevin C

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Aceman- he sounds like the engineer type to me!

Despite that... I'm adding my two cents, or this comes up a lot and i would like to add my perspective :)


1: If you anticipate greater demand pulling a larger cable would make sense.

2: NEC reccomends a total voltage drop of 5%, mix and match if its important.

3: Worst case planing is not a bad idea but its easy to get carried away. Judgment call if the OP really believes he will use 100% of his 100 amp capacity, he should consider upsizing his system.

4: Reducing voltage drops is hard!

@ 100 AMPs, no power factor correction, skin effects not considered.

1 AWG .000203 Ohms per foot
1/0 AWG .000161 Ohms per foot

1 AWG Voltage drop at 100 Amps 5.684 V
1/0 AWG Voltage drop at 100 Amps 4.508 V

Net improvement from going up one gauge at 100 amps @ 240 V = 1.176 V

If this is enough to make or break a system, you have bigger problems.

OK say we were pulling 70 amps in our home shop (16800 Watts). Just so you know... That like running 9, 1500 W, 5120 BTU, 120 V electric heaters and 11 or so four foot double bulb T8 lights and a Ryobi Table saw or two.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_100813-33454-EW7507EBL_4294765332__?productId=3262151&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo= Example Heater

The voltage drop with 1 AWG Aluminum is 3.98 V and for 1/0 its 3.15 V

For a pretty high loading the "improvement" is about .82 volts lower voltage drop.

---------------------


VD and your Motor

We all hear about how bad VD (voltage drop) is and its evils. The reality is, the effect varies.

Filament light bulbs, lower voltages drop output but make a huge improvement in life.

Motors.. It all depends. If you have an older compressor, that was rated for 220 volts a bit of voltage drop is a good thing. The goal is to avoid saturating the magnetics. Saturating the iron is way, way worse than an under voltage.

Newer 230 volt motors typically have a tolerance of ±10%. Many motors have a peak efficiency at a voltage that is less than the name plate voltage. At the same time you lose some starting torque with the increased voltage drop. In a good design, this should be accounted for. If you check the name plate you may also find that your compressor motor is rated 208-230V.

I have seen that on the name plates of a lot of motors.

There are a lot more factors.. But at some point it's reasonable to assume that you have minimized your risks to an acceptable level.

That's my take..
 
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Screwitharder

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Thanks everybody for the help. I'm finally getting around to this and there's a NEW TWIST!! I started plotting out where to trench and my neighbor came out to say I was in the other neighbor's field! Seems I will need to go around, the distance will be 360 feet, not 140 feet.
I figure #1 for the hots and neutral in Aluminum, 6 for the ground. Does that sound right to you all? Thanks for your help
 

Tripp2012

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Have you thought about seperate service to the building? When I built my shop/garage this year I pulled seperate service due to the cost involved of pulling off my house. The power company came out ran the line and connected to the meter base I installed for $370 bucks for a 100 foot run.
 

pattenp

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For a 100A feed at 360ft I'd do 4/0. You can get by with 2/0 if you're not loading the circuit to the max. #1 just isn't going to cut it for 360ft. And the ground will need to be over sized also. I think it needs to be upsized to at least a #4, maybe #2. There are sizing requirements for the ground when the current carrying conductors are over sized for voltage drop.

Edit: The grounding conductor shall be increased in size proportionately according to the circular mil area of the ungrounded conductors.

Thanks everybody for the help. I'm finally getting around to this and there's a NEW TWIST!! I started plotting out where to trench and my neighbor came out to say I was in the other neighbor's field! Seems I will need to go around, the distance will be 360 feet, not 140 feet.
I figure #1 for the hots and neutral in Aluminum, 6 for the ground. Does that sound right to you all? Thanks for your help
 
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2ManyProjects

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Thanks everybody for the help. I'm finally getting around to this and there's a NEW TWIST!! I started plotting out where to trench and my neighbor came out to say I was in the other neighbor's field! Seems I will need to go around, the distance will be 360 feet, not 140 feet.

OUCH!

That changes EVERYTHING.

I figure #1 for the hots and neutral in Aluminum, 6 for the ground. Does that sound right to you all? Thanks for your help

That's not even close to adequate. To feed 100 Amps over 360 feet will require at minimum AWG 4/0 aluminum or AWG 2/0 copper for the main conductors. (Technically, even the AWG 4/0 AL is just slightly undersized; but it's SO close -- within 0.2% -- that I would not lose sleep over it.)

Have you thought about seperate service to the building?

That may indeed be his best bet at this point. Another possibility would be to get an easement from his neighbor.

 

madosta

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Dude 2ManyProjects, this is one project too many for you!

If by your calculations, which you are using incorrect math mind you. Stop using metric!

The IDEAL solution (get it?) is to use COPPER bus duct the entire way. OVERHEAD.

That's all. Thanks.
 

2ManyProjects

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Dude 2ManyProjects, this is one project too many for you!

If by your calculations, which you are using incorrect math mind you. Stop using metric!

WTF are you talking about?!?

Do you know how to calculate voltage drop?

CM = K x I x L / E

For Cu, "K" is 10.75 or 12.9 (depending on things I'd rather not argue about right now); for Al, "K" is 21.2; "I" is the maximum current the circuit is designed to support; "L" is the ROUND TRIP distance; and of course, "E" is the maximum allowable voltage drop (3% of the nominal line voltage). So...

Aluminum:
CM = 21.2 x 100 x 720 / 7.2
CM = 1,526,400 / 7.2
CM = 212,000

AWG 4/0 == 211,592 CM

211,592 / 212,000 == 99.808%

i.e. -- exactly as I said: Less than 0.2% shy of what you really want, but "close enough".

Copper:
CM = 12.9 x 100 x 720 / 7.2
CM = 928,800 / 7.2
CM = 129,000

AWG 1/0 == 105,531 CM
AWG 2/0 == 133,072 CM

Again, exactly as I said: AWG 2/0 is adequate; AWG 1/0 is not.

So I ask again: WTF are you talking about?!?

 
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Screwitharder

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Thanks for all of the advice, I really messed this one up. My neighbor's an ***, an easement is out of the question. The electric company wil charge me $4372 to run a new service not incluing the permits. I already bought the 1/0, it's cut into 3 pieces (neutral, 2 hots) and the #4 for ground. I'm going to run it as a 60 amp service from the house, forgoe the 100 amp dream and live with it. If there's trouble down the road, I'll run another conduit or something. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help, nice to see people give a **** about their trade.
 

2ManyProjects

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Thanks for all of the advice, I really messed this one up. My neighbor's an ***, an easement is out of the question. The electric company wil charge me $4372 to run a new service not incluing the permits.

Ouch. Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I already bought the 1/0, it's cut into 3 pieces (neutral, 2 hots) and the #4 for ground.

Hold on a minute... Earlier, you said AWG 1. Now you're saying AWG 1/0, which is NOT the same thing. Which is it?

I'm going to run it as a 60 amp service from the house, forgoe the 100 amp dream and live with it.

I REALLY think you should re-think this, before throwing still more good money/work after bad. Best-case scenario, even assuming you really did mean AWG 1/0, you're going to have marginally excessive voltage drop (about 3.6%) over a run that long, even at just 60 Amps. And if you really did mean AWG 1, you can drop the "marginally" part of that statement, as you will be losing nearly 11 volts just between the service panel and the sub-panel.

What's done is done. Take your loss, write it off, and move on. But DON'T set yourself up for a fall trying to "make do" with a bad decision.

 
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Screwitharder

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Sep 3, 2013
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I know what you mean. Wires run now though, hooked up, I have lights, heat, air compressor running. 60 amps will be just fine. Not sure if I wrote #1, meant 1/0 though. at 60 amps, I calculated 3.6 drop (320 actual feet of wire once I terminated). I ran 2 inch conduit and could easily run more power if I need to. For now I'm happy. Funny thing, I used to run 7/0 equivalent when I was still working and we had a gas powered cable puller. Never realized how beautiful that thing was. Pulling these 4 1/0 almost killed me! Too many bends, I'll never do that again. Thanks for the advice.
 
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