Water/Spirit Level for Site Grading

inphx · Oct 6, 2013

Thanks in advance for letting me take another dip in the "well of knowledge".

I need to grade 8k sqk ft of a sloped lot plus deal with a driveway/drainiage designs.

I have a known altitiude on the site (in the form of a wall top) and approved plans for grading...

Can i get away with a 100'ft roll of 1/2" id reiforced pvc tube filled with water, loaded up with a garden hose as a "spirit float" to transfer known alitudes to numerous points... and then use same "tool" while work is under way.

I know this would work in "lab" conditions. Wish to hear from those who used it in the field.

Any tips for a DIY design of the end point vertical tubes?

bczygan · Oct 6, 2013

I would attach the upper end of the tube, fixed to the side of this reference wall.

Then either get a tripod, or make one of 3 sticks bound together, and secure the movable end of the tubing to that.

Then you can move this around the property and measure down from the water level in it.

Easy peasy.

Zeke · Oct 6, 2013

I think you can buy a dumpy level for what the plastic will cost.

kd3pc · Oct 6, 2013

works fine, has for hundreds of years...

I did the "grade stake" at the busy end, but the tripod mentioned above sounds even easier. The reference end is as stated as well.

all the best

signcrafter · Oct 6, 2013

I have one of these and it works pretty good, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zircon-Corporation-25-ft-Water-Level-58467/100038998#.UlF56U4o5lY. They sell additional hose for it also.

Water levels are nice for areas where you need to get a reading and objects are in the way, in other words where you can't use a laser. But for grading a whole lot I would be looking into a laser setup, something like this, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00080QFBU/?tag=atomicindus08-20. Easier to use and from my experience more accurate. The water level you have to make sure it doesn't kink or get any air in the water which can happen as you move around or set down the tube. I use my laser level for all sorts of things. It's one of those things that until you own one you don't realize all the benefits of it. Just makes life easier.

cubfarm 1 · Oct 6, 2013

You will like a bottle of food coloring in the water so that it is easy to see. Romex staples will hold the tube to a 2by 2 so it is easy to keep track of. Foot square piece of scrap wood on the bottom lets it stand on it's oun.

bullnerd · Oct 6, 2013

I used my garden hose with about a foot of clear hose at each end. Food coloring here also.

CTyankee · Oct 6, 2013

I'll take the accuracy and simplicity of a water level over a laser any day. A reservoir water level offers less chance of spillage and is easier to use. You can make up a nice one for < 25 bucks.

http://watrlevel.com/waterlevels.htm

inphx · Oct 6, 2013

CTyankee said:
I'll take the accuracy and simplicity of a water level over a laser any day. A reservoir water level offers less chance of spillage and is easier to use. You can make up a nice one for < 25 bucks.

http://watrlevel.com/waterlevels.htm

Thanks, i see the use of a reservoir and why it would be an aid at the reference end.. I do not follow the writers point " The reservoir method provides equal height reference marks -- a level plane. It doesn't directly transfer the height of an existing point."

I mean if the reservoir is filled to a necessary level... it would seem the remote end would transfer the existing point.

CTyankee · Oct 6, 2013

inphx said:
Thanks, i see the use of a reservoir and why it would be an aid at the reference end.. I do not follow the writers point " The reservoir method provides equal height reference marks -- a level plane. It doesn't directly transfer the height of an existing point."

I mean if the reservoir is filled to a necessary level... it would seem the remote end would transfer the existing point.

You're right, the remote end is transferring the existing point....that being the point the reservoir level. What he means is say you have a reference mark at a certain height on a wall, it would be impractical to try and set the reservoir height to match the precise height of the mark on the wall and then transfer that mark via the remote end.

What you do is set the reservoir at a level that suits your needs. Then using the remote end, you transfer that height over near the reference mark and measure the difference between the 2 heights. Since your remote end is only measuring the existing point on the reservoir, any time you make a remote mark, you must adjust that mark to take into account the difference in the reservoir height and the reference mark.

Hence, you aren't directly transferring the said wall reference mark using the water level, you are just creating a level plane that serves as a benchmark to work from. Hope that makes sense.

Ed ke6bnl · Oct 7, 2013

I have one I bought for almost nothing uses a small 1/4 line so it doesn't change height much with elevation changes and has a built in reservoir. so the level that is used in the reservoir stays nearly the same as you move the open end.

Highbeam · Oct 7, 2013

Buy and learn to use a laser level. I appreciate the history and DIY aspect but a water level is just jippo. If I hired out an 8k SF grading job and the guy rolled out a garden hose I would be seriously concerned.

Zeke · Oct 7, 2013

For sure. 8K sq ft is big enough that you can't see the water in the line at the other end when you get to the perimeter. But, they do make a version with a tone that you can hear when the water reaches level. I'd still buy an instrument. You can get a simple used David White for cheap.

Gerald O · Oct 7, 2013

The water level can work to give you a ballpark measurement, but it is very difficult to get any accuracy. The problem is that it is unstable. If there is any sun shining, the water will expand in the hose and your reference marks will keep drifting. If the sun goes behind the clouds the water will shrink. By the time you mark one end and then go to the other end to check it, the water will have changed volume. You'll find yourself sprinting back and forth from one end to the other to check both marks as the reading drifts. You'll be doing good to get better than 1/2" accuracy.

It might work ok if you have one person at each end and you shout out and both make marks simultaneously. But then there's the other problem in which the water wants to slosh back and forth in waves. The wave can last a very long time so it will go up and down for many minutes. All this time while you're waiting for the sloshing to subside, the sun is heating the hose.

Rookie2 · Oct 7, 2013

i'd buy a tape measure with a level and a lazor light beam. do it at dusk and install grade stakes.

Highbeam · Oct 7, 2013

The sun coming and going can also affect the length of the legs on my aluminum tripod. Slowly of course, but check level fairly often when it is important.

Sureshot · Oct 7, 2013

The laser level is only as good as the guy leveling it and the tolerances in the swivel. The water level is independent of that. The container version is the way to go.
As far as waves cap or squeeze off the end for a few seconds and slowly release it.
The expansion amount is a total joke. Do you adjust your tape measure for the ambient temperature?
I think the bigger the distance the less chance for error with water unless you buck up for an expensive unit and learn to use it. Most go for the chicom cheap **** and we all know it.

Highbeam · Oct 7, 2013

Sureshot said:
The laser level is only as good as the guy leveling it and the tolerances in the swivel. The water level is independent of that.

I call BS. A water level takes some intelligence as well. You can't stand on the tube, and you need some understanding of what you're doing.

Yes, I agree, most electronics sold are now imported. Got over that a long time ago when I discovered that quality is the same nomatter where it's made for a given price point.

Sureshot · Oct 7, 2013

Highbeam said:
I call BS. A water level takes some intelligence as well. You can't stand on the tube, and you need some understanding of what you're doing.

Yes, I agree, most electronics sold are now imported. Got over that a long time ago when I discovered that quality is the same nomatter where it's made for a given price point.

The point wasn't the COO, it was that you can't go buy a $50 laser level and get perfection 300' away. Yes you can do it in steps but that adds a whole other level of possible error.

I think you were joking about standing on the hose so I will respond with you can't stand in front of the laser. Not that you won't see it but it will cut you in half or shoot a hole through you.

Both methods only supply a reference point.

Part of it is deciding whether you need a Swiss watch, sundial, atomic clock, or just a regular Timex. Your needs and budget will dictate. Water level using a container and coloring is pretty damn good for the price and I think as accurate up to 10 maybe 100x the price.

K'ledgeBldr · Oct 7, 2013

Highbeam said:
Buy and learn to use a laser level. I appreciate the history and DIY aspect but a water level is just jippo. If I hired out an 8k SF grading job and the guy rolled out a garden hose I would be seriously concerned.

Amen!

AZ Pete · Oct 7, 2013

Hah! water levels are gypo. Water has sought its own level since the beginning to time. A water level may be cheap, but it is accurate, and easy for most folks to understand and use with little or no error. Expensive and high tech has a cool factor, to be sure, doesn't make it more accurate for the OP's purpose.

Rockford · Oct 7, 2013

I strongly back the use of water levels, but you do need to know what you're doing and understand the basic principle.
They can be very frustrating- i.e. dropping the moving end too low and spilling water out, just to name a few.
They typically take two people.
I'd recommend at least 5/8" clear tubing, not smaller. The bigger the diameter, the more forgiving the changes (or hysteresis) in the leveling. The clear hose also allows you to be certain there are no air bubbles.
I attached a garden hose coupling to one end for easy filling and have wire ties on each end to hang the ends. Do not use anything that would pinch the hose.

You should try it out first with a short, say 8' length in an enclosed, controlled area, then determine if it's going to be practical dragging a long hose around outdoors, over elevations and not spilling any of the water.

Sureshot · Oct 7, 2013

Rockford said:
I strongly back the use of water levels, but you do need to know what you're doing and understand the basic principle.
They can be very frustrating- i.e. dropping the moving end too low and spilling water out, just to name a few.
They typically take two people.
I'd recommend at least 5/8" clear tubing, not smaller. The bigger the diameter, the more forgiving the changes (or hysteresis) in the leveling. The clear hose also allows you to be certain there are no air bubbles.
I attached a garden hose coupling to one end for easy filling and have wire ties on each end to hang the ends. Do not use anything that would pinch the hose.

You should try it out first with a short, say 8' length in an enclosed, controlled area, then determine if it's going to be practical dragging a long hose around outdoors, over elevations and not spilling any of the water.

You need to check out the website at the beginning of the thread for "watrlevel" and the use of a container. Will make all the difference in the world.

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