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Sears/Craftsman "made in USA" lawsuit - what were the results?

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Farmall450

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http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/sears_craftsman.html

From a long time ago, what ended up happening?

Suit Hits Sears Made In USA Claim
Craftsman tools use parts from many countries, suit charges

12/08/2004 | ConsumerAffairs | Sears and Kmart News
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A class action lawsuit against Sears, Roebuck and Co alleges that Sears conducted false advertising and consumer fraud by advertising that its Craftsman tool line is "Made in the USA."

The suit alleges that promotions in ads, the website, on signs and labels claiming that Craftsman is "Made in the USA" led consumers to purchase the tools out of a sense of patriotism. Consumers were also led to believe that Craftsman is of high quality because it is "Made in the USA."

Pictures attached to the complaint show metal parts from Austria, Denmark, China, India and Mexico on Craftsman tools labeled as "Made in the USA."

"Sears has falsely touted Craftsman tools as 'Made in the USA' when the Federal Trade Commission has issued guidelines stating that such a claim is proper only where all or substantially all of the product is U.S.A. made. Sears Craftsman is misleading consumers by invoking that claim," said Barbara J. Hart, attorney for the tool buyers.

The lawsuit, which seeks class-action status and unspecified damages, was filed last week in New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan.
 
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1982fxr

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SMKS

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Paradox71 said:
When I worked for York manufacturing, assembling AC units, I questioned their "Made in the USA" claims. Most "moving" parts were built and shipped from South America. (Motors, compressors, wire harnesses). Only things such as top/bottom pans, coils, copper lines, etc. were made in house. There response was simply, they only had to manufacture a small percentage and assemble them here to meet the criteria. They could have been blowing me off, who knows. I do know they have been bought out by Johnson Controls. :dunno:

Could be a loophole Sears uses?
Click to expand...

This has been posted a million times, but here's a simple, easy-to-understand site that spells out the rules for labeling an item "made in the USA."

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard
 
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Farmall450

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Paradox71 said:
When I worked for York manufacturing, assembling AC units, I questioned their "Made in the USA" claims. Most "moving" parts were built and shipped from South America. (Motors, compressors, wire harnesses). Only things such as top/bottom pans, coils, copper lines, etc. were made in house. There response was simply, they only had to manufacture a small percentage and assemble them here to meet the criteria. They could have been blowing me off, who knows. I do know they have been bought out by Johnson Controls. :dunno:

Could be a loophole Sears uses?
Click to expand...

Probably

1982fxr said:
funny how that works, huh? Mega billion dollar company makes millions and millions by misleading people, millions and millions of them...and they get pass because they screwed over too many people!
Click to expand...

Yeah, glad to see our justice system in action.

SMKS said:
This has been posted a million times, but here's a simple, easy-to-understand site that spells out the rules for labeling an item "made in the USA."

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard
Click to expand...

Funny, I haven't seen it in the years I've been on here...
 
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1982fxr

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I saw a documentary where it told about corporations going to lengths to close off the legal system from consumers.

remember the greedy stupid ***** who sued Mcdonald's for too hot of coffee?

truth was it was like a 90 year old woman in a parked car being driven by her grandson. She tried to get the stupid lid off to cool it down and it spilled all all over her inner thighs. She almost died! The doc shows the pictures--they are EXTREMELY graphic. So after almost dying, she asked (not sued) mcdonalds to pay the hospital bills.

Of course they would not, so it ended up in court where she still only wanted the bills covered. The JURY awarded her that huge amount of money, she didn't even ask for it.

Then the media went into high gear, ignoring the truth and today you can still hear mindless radio, news, etc people babbling on about the greedy lady who sued them...
 
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1982fxr said:
I saw a documentary where it told about corporations going to lengths to close off the legal system from consumers.

remember the greedy stupid ***** who sued Mcdonald's for too hot of coffee?

truth was it was like a 90 year old woman in a parked car being driven by her grandson. She tried to get the stupid lid off to cool it down and it spilled all all over her inner thighs. She almost died! The doc shows the pictures--they are EXTREMELY graphic. So after almost dying, she asked (not sued) mcdonalds to pay the hospital bills.

Of course they would not, so it ended up in court where she still only wanted the bills covered. The JURY awarded her that huge amount of money, she didn't even ask for it.

Then the media went into high gear, ignoring the truth and today you can still hear mindless radio, news, etc people babbling on about the greedy lady who sued them...
Click to expand...

Largely true. The victim required skin-grafting for her injuries, and that doesn't come cheap. One persuasive piece of evidence was that McDonalds had received numerous complaints from the public regarding the molten steel they were serving, all prior to the accident.
 
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sulfurburner

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Steinmetz said:
Largely true. The victim required skin-grafting for her injuries, and that doesn't come cheap. One persuasive piece of evidence was that McDonalds had received numerous complaints from the public regarding the molten steel they were serving, all prior to the accident.
Click to expand...

There were actually multiple victims of McD's hot coffee. one of my buddies fiance was one of them. she got burned when she was just a baby. She ended up with big scars on her inner thigh area. I know she ended up with a decent sized settlement (paid for her education and then some).

I took a couple business law classes in college and my professor actually claimed that McD's kept getting hit with lawsuits, but refused to lower the temp. of the coffee because the majority of their customers wanted it extremely hot (I know I enjoy that outer layer of my throat being burned off during the first sip :spit:). In turn the courts started awarding victims more and more $$$$.
 
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itguy08

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Steinmetz said:
The Federal Judiciary (including the U.S. Supreme Court) has become increasingly antagonistic toward Class Action suits in recent years. The most common target is the composition and size of the class.
Click to expand...

Good! Class actions are a scam of the highest order. Get people who are "victims", then get the company to fork over a token amount of money, the lawyers collect the majority of the money for "expenses" and then each person gets a few dollars for another of the company's products or another very small amount.
 
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BFBOB

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itguy08 said:
Good! Class actions are a scam of the highest order. Get people who are "victims", then get the company to fork over a token amount of money, the lawyers collect the majority of the money for "expenses" and then each person gets a few dollars for another of the company's products or another very small amount.
Click to expand...

Yes...but,
Take the latest that affected me: eBay was sued over failing to disclose they were taking Final Value Fees out of shipping payments as well as sales payments. I was awarded about 50 cents, probably pretty close to what was unfairly taken. How could I have hired a lawyer to collect that 50 cents? But more to the point, in the process of paying out pennies to a lot of people, eBay got its knuckles nipped to the tune of many millions of dollars. Enough to get the attention of even a company eBay's size, and maybe think twice before cheating more people. I could not have accomplished ANY of that by myself.
So, yes, the lawyers got rich and the plaintiffs got pennies, but it still served the cause of justice.
.
 
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1982fxr

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itguy08 said:
Good! Class actions are a scam of the highest order. Get people who are "victims", then get the company to fork over a token amount of money, the lawyers collect the majority of the money for "expenses" and then each person gets a few dollars for another of the company's products or another very small amount.
Click to expand...

yeah, i was being a total ***** when i cancelled my LA Fitness membership and they just kept taking money out of my account and wouldn't give it back. Along with a million other people. I'm such a jerk.
 
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1982fxr said:
Then the media went into high gear, ignoring the truth and today you can still hear mindless radio, news, etc people babbling on about the greedy lady who sued them...
Click to expand...

Its probably true in some sense though because you cant tell me that was the only settlement. Look at Toyota with the accelerator issue that brought tons of low lives out of the wood work just looking for a quick pay day and Blitz gas cans were shut down by frivolous suits claiming their cans weren't "safe enough" for dumping fuel onto a flame.

You see a lot of really idiotic warning labels these days, they didn't get there for no reason. Someone was dumb/careless, got hurt, and sued.
 
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Loscaldazar

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Skin said:
Its probably true in some sense though because you cant tell me that was the only settlement. Look at Toyota with the accelerator issue that brought tons of low lives out of the wood work just looking for a quick pay day and Blitz gas cans were shut down by frivolous suits claiming their cans weren't "safe enough" for dumping fuel onto a flame.

You see a lot of really idiotic warning labels these days, they didn't get there for no reason. Someone was dumb/careless, got hurt, and sued.
Click to expand...

The Toyota example is a really, really, really good one. Especially seeing as how every independent testing agency that investigated cleared Toyota.

For those who don't know, the premise was that the TBW (throttle by wire, ie, electric throttle input, not throttle input by a cable) was shorting out and causing the cars to go full throttle. Of course because they had shorted out, there was no way to reduce throttle input. Many companies were brought in to look into it (including NASA) and said there was no short, no problem, and no fault. Yet Toyota suffered in sales, image, and money that juries STILL rewarded people with. The whole floor mat recall was an attempt at saving face, not so much because an actual problem existed.

Full disclosure- I hate and despise Toyota and their current offerings in the US. I'm far from a fanboy trying to defend them.

EDIT:

Also several owners of Toyotas who didn't even own a car equipped with TBW were awarded money by a jury.... talk about stupid.
 
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Farmall450

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BFBOB said:
Yes...but,
Take the latest that affected me: eBay was sued over failing to disclose they were taking Final Value Fees out of shipping payments as well as sales payments. I was awarded about 50 cents, probably pretty close to what was unfairly taken. How could I have hired a lawyer to collect that 50 cents? But more to the point, in the process of paying out pennies to a lot of people, eBay got its knuckles nipped to the tune of many millions of dollars. Enough to get the attention of even a company eBay's size, and maybe think twice before cheating more people. I could not have accomplished ANY of that by myself.
So, yes, the lawyers got rich and the plaintiffs got pennies, but it still served the cause of justice.
.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

:beer:
 
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b-body-bob

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1982fxr said:
Then the media went into high gear, ignoring the truth and today you can still hear mindless radio, news, etc people babbling on about the greedy lady who sued them...
Click to expand...

You should read the true story behind the "Welfare Queen" that so inspired Reagan. They were so busy chasing welfare fraud they didn't even look into her background where it now seems she was responsible for kidnapping and murder.
 
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atwageman

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I like the asbestos commercials the attorney's run on TV.

You work in a factory for 30 years and have no clue about the materials you're dealing with? Or the chemical make up of the materials? I'm not trying to make light of someone with work related cancer, I'm just say'n.
 
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Farmall450

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atwageman said:
I like the asbestos commercials the attorney's run on TV.

You work in a factory for 30 years and have no clue about the materials you're dealing with? Or the chemical make up of the materials? I'm not trying to make light of someone with work related cancer, I'm just say'n.
Click to expand...

Exactly! I never understood that...
 
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1982fxr

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atwageman said:
I like the asbestos commercials the attorney's run on TV.

You work in a factory for 30 years and have no clue about the materials you're dealing with? Or the chemical make up of the materials? I'm not trying to make light of someone with work related cancer, I'm just say'n.
Click to expand...

Telling the truth to factory workers about the materials they're using has not been and will never be a priority. I've worked in many
 
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Agentwho

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I remember the documentary Hot Coffee going into details about the McDonald's case amungs other things. If I remember right the amount was equal to two days of coffee sales, the jury awawded it to them but what you dont hear is that the judge cut it way down.

It was a great documentary, touches on a lot of things you would never hear about otherwise. I think its on Netflix
 
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1982fxr said:
funny how that works, huh? Mega billion dollar company makes millions and millions by misleading people, millions and millions of them...and they get pass because they screwed over too many people!
Click to expand...

As Ronald Reagan so aptly put it: "There you go again ...."
Is there any corporation or business out there you don't hate? :confused:
 
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1982fxr

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PugetDude said:
As Ronald Reagan so aptly put it: "There you go again ...."
Is there any corporation or business out there you don't hate? :confused:
Click to expand...

I've aired dislike for sears, wal Mart and McDonald's....are those what you mean?

And la fitness. Not exactly a cast of ethical firms though, is it?
 
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TangoFoxTrot said:
I'm very skeptical of the entire class action lawsuit model, the lawyers that sued the tobacco companies walked away with BILLIONS of dollars.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/great-tobacco-robbery-lawyers-grab-billions

Make our legal system "loser pays", it would stop a lot of the nonsense. No other country has our crazy litigation problem.
Click to expand...

The tobacco settlements are a farce. In addition to just make the lawyers richer, many of the various settlements given to the states for anti-tobacco "education" programs and to help some indigent medically needy smokers, was squandered by the states and went either into the general revenue funds or was spent on other pet projects that had nothing to do with smoking or smokers.

I like UK's civil suit legal model, losing side has to pay both sides legal fees. Makes people think twice about filing ******** suits and to make sure you have a damn good case or it will come back to bite you with legal costs on both sides of the fence.
 
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jhendric

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Guys, like most everything the truth is in the middle. I worked for a large corporation for 30+ years and I can say first hand that the very best and brightest minds at that company were in the legal department. The processes are set up in a way that no person is accountable for screwing people, but screw people they do. Large companies are greed engines accountable only to a number. The entire premise of a corporation is that it is in and of itself, legally, a separate entity. This being said, they are critical to the US economy and provide many great jobs but they must be kept in check.

On the other side is a very large group of individuals that are always looking for the easy button they too need to be kept in check.

I do think the legal fees should be capped. My inlaws lived down the creek from one of the lawyers that won against the tobacco companies. Their house and yacht were rather large.
 
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zendriver

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Results?

Eventually, SBD purchase the craftsman brand, wasted $1 billion on the “state of the art” US factory that, that built mediocre tools,that no one really even wanted in the first place and refused to buy, unless they were deeply discounted.

The whole sorted endeavor **** the bed spectacularly, But did nothing to qualm the desire for domestic manufactured, snap on level quality tools at Harbor freight prices.

Maybe someday. :dunno:
 
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finn

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Loscaldazar said:
The Toyota example is a really, really, really good one. Especially seeing as how every independent testing agency that investigated cleared Toyota.

For those who don't know, the premise was that the TBW (throttle by wire, ie, electric throttle input, not throttle input by a cable) was shorting out and causing the cars to go full throttle. Of course because they had shorted out, there was no way to reduce throttle input. Many companies were brought in to look into it (including NASA) and said there was no short, no problem, and no fault. Yet Toyota suffered in sales, image, and money that juries STILL rewarded people with. The whole floor mat recall was an attempt at saving face, not so much because an actual problem existed.

Full disclosure- I hate and despise Toyota and their current offerings in the US. I'm far from a fanboy trying to defend them.

EDIT:

Also several owners of Toyotas who didn't even own a car equipped with TBW were awarded money by a jury.... talk about stupid.
Click to expand...
I think the Audi issue ended up being the design ergonomics that put the accelerator too close to the gas pedal.

From what I remember of the Toyota issue, it was actually the design of the gas pedal that got fouled up with floor mats.

Sometimes these seemingly bogus class action suits identify real Issues of bad design, in the end.
 
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