Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

billymade · Oct 14, 2008

I was looking at the Klann/Gedore German tool website and found some videos for a "power pack" based specialty tools they sell for drive-line and bearing tool replacement. A couple of questions: is this a case of German over-engineering a tool or a superior, damage free solution, that most likely is recommended in all those official Bentley manuals out there? The videos show a hydraulic tool that can be used in a number of different bushing, bearing, and axle replacement procedures; I don't want to even think how much this thing costs, I would assume in a normal shop environment, this would probably be a shop supplied tool because of the high cost....

suspension bushing replacement on Golf IV:
http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Filme_E/KL-0215-52A_E.htm

bearing replacement on what looks like a VW or Audi:
http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Filme_E/KL-0039-Serie-Radl_E.htm

clutch replacement for sac clutch/dual mass flywheel:
http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Filme_E/KL-0500-40_Wiedereinbau_E.htm

Do you really have to have these puller to replace these new types of clutches german cars use? I know they are expensive; so it would be a bummer to damage on putting a new one on; seems many people just swap the flywheel/clutch for the conventional older styles to save money.... I wonder if dealerships use these?
overall videos of products:
http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Movies_E.htm
website: http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Home_E.htm

The sense I get from watching the videos is the tools are really high quality and do the job well; the emphases seem to be on reduction of physical exertion on the part of the technician, a philosophy of working "smarter" rather then "harder", reduction of physical harm and elimination of component damage. For a shop based in the USA; I wonder, if they would be willing to pay for the cost of these tools or just find "easier" brute force methods for doing these mechanical repairs?

GDA · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Everything I've read on the BMW forums indicates Klann tools to be of the utmost quality and engineering. That said, I watched the hydraulic front wheel bearing video and have to say that my old fashioned slide hammer would have had it pulled off by the time he started to install the torque plate for the puller.

Very cool tools though...

bchee · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

I don't know how cost effective they would be, but those were some cool videos to watch. It's like being able to work on a car vicariously

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Yeah, don't you wish a clutch job went that fast through the magic of "time lapse" video? If you had a lift and all the right tools; I would assume it would be allot easier then on your back, on cement with a floor jack and stands!

GDA · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Maybe its just me but the guy in the video reminded me of Mr Rogers of the show Mr Roger's Neighborhood. Very slow, methodical and deliberate. LOL

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

He kinda looks like he has done the work/procedure a thousand times and is just kinda on "auto pilot"; interesting looking shop, with all those tools on the walls! Maybe a "official" Gedore/Klann R/D shop or something! I always find it fascinating when I find pics or videos of technicians, shops in Germany/Europe; they look so much different then ours in the USA. They always seem to be super clean, organized and set up logically. Then again, maybe it is all for show, for the videos and studio shots. Those Germans really are organized and do everything in a ordered manner, just go to Germany or have them for relatives; it may drive you nuts (especially, if you are a disorganized looney tune like me)!

speed bump · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

After looking through a couple of catalogs, I started feeling like I was looking at a Lisle or Napa catalog. Alot of useful tools if I did alot of that kind of work but very little I have to have to do the job.

As far as overengineering goes it seems more like it would slow the project down more than help it especially with techs that had been doing this for a couple of years. Things like a special puller for windshield wiper blades and 500 different variations on a hydralic puller are overkill and help make the case for the huge toolboxes that everyone seems to need now.

Moose-LandTran · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

They work great, but you can do all those jobs with much cheaper and more basic tools with no ill effects. I've never used anything to align dual-mass clutches other than my eyes. The bearing pullers are good, but like GDA said, a slide hammer does the job just as well. For a much lesser cost and a much shorter time.

That MK IV bearing replacement is painful to watch, talk about taking all day. A hydraulic puller to push out the shaft? Please, gimme a break, i use an old hub nut, a drift and a hammer to do that. Works the same in a fraction of the time, and to date not a single shaft damaged. You can do that job with a few big impact sockets (use like drifts) and a vice. As for that brake to stop the hub turning, whatever happened to loosening the hub nut with the wheel on the ground? That's how i do it, or i stick a punch in the brake disk vent so it hits the caliper to stop it turning.

The rear subframe bush replacement tool is along the right lines, still more complicated that it needs to be. you can get a manual version here that presses the new bush in. To remove the old one, i cut away the rubber and the middle, use a recip. saw to cut the metal buch casing and a chisel to knock it out the subframe, then press it in with the special tool or a vice. Far easier, quicker and cheaper.

The germans like having the right tool for the job. Many of us do, but it's unfeasable to have all that stuff. The cost the earth, and do the same exact job as other methods. Granted, you won't screw it up if you use the tools designed specifically for the job, but work carefully and you won't use other methods.

If i had the money and the space, i'd have all the specialist tools made for these cars, realistically, i'll spend a little less money and use a little more bad language.

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Thats the aspect of the German engineering/mentality I am referring to; they are so detail oriented that they have a special tool for every tiny little procedure and part that a repair or part would require. I guess, there has to be some culture out there that takes the time to engineer, makes the tools and document everything so precisely and deliberately for the products they make! It would be interesting, if you put a american technician and a german one side by side; see how they would tackle a repair, what tools they would use and how fast they would get the job done. I'm sure if you have the correct tools, you can get the job done faster (in most cases) and without damage to the parts you are working with...... I think Germans just have a different philosophy when it comes to this stuff but I could be wrong; maybe our German members on here can comment on my take on the situation....

Moose-LandTran · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

As for you other question about main dealers having this gear, most big main dealers do. They have all kinds special tools, at least all the ones for German cars that i've been to have a lot of specialist tools.

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

If you were doing that type of work all day, those tools would be nice to use; it would probably go pretty quick after you go used to them and just be second nature using the tools, I don't know how mechanics get paid in Germany, if they work on "flat rates" or if they do things differently there...

Moose-LandTran · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Hourly i think.

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Well, maybe working faster wouldn't be seen as beneficial, socialism is so heavy there; maybe speed is not emphasized, who knows! I wouldn't be surprised if doing things in a methodical manner, correctly and safely would be a higher priority then speed.... wheres the german guys on here when we need some comments from us (me) "stupid" americans commenting or theorizing on their culture? LOL!

chammyman · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

lol the videos are ridiculous.

As moose said, the rear axle bushes the hot spanner or air chisel, then putting a new one in, bit of threaded rod. Although its quicker and less effort with the tool he uses.

The shaft out the hub, purlease! Most you can push out. Although theres been a few where the hydraulics would have mad eit a lot easier. The bearing I always take the hub off and use the press, the fact you can leave it on the car is good. The thing to draw the inner race off is safer than the old angle grinder though

the clutch looks like a passat or an a4. What a ridiculous farce that was as well! with the box off your less than 5 mins getting the old one off and slapping the new one in. Add 5 mins for fitting a new flywheel which you need to do most of the time.

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

I guess, this is another example of the German doing things "their own way"; then, let the rest of us figure out a quicker, less expensive way to do the job... I bet from their perspective, they are doing it the "right" way and we are just "cutting corners", LOL!

chammyman · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

indeed, have to say the tools are nice, I like his roll away as well.

chammyman · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

I have to say though

http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Filme_E/KL-0326-10_E.htm

that is great, the commercial vans use the same set up.

We just belted them out with a sledghammer and an old axle stand then pressed them in. That way is far, far better

Jononon · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Never used, or even seen, most of their tools, but if they're as effective as the spring compressors I wouldn't be in a hurry to dismiss them. Using their compressor was the first time I've removed a mac' strut without feeling as though there was a possibility of it, at best, launching itself across the workshop.

billymade said:
I guess, this is another example of the German doing things "their own way"; then, let the rest of us figure out a quicker, less expensive way to do the job... I bet from their perspective, they are doing it the "right" way and we are just "cutting corners", LOL!

They might have a point. I bet they damage fewer parts - you know what you're doing, I know what I'm doing(ish), but surely we've all seen horrors that could have been avoided by either the mechanic possessing better skills or the application of a foolproof tool ?

ImportTuner · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Wow, that strut spring compressor is so cool; I want one .. bet it cost alot ..

billymade · Oct 15, 2008

Re: Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

Just for fun; I thought I would look up the prices of the some of the tools shown in the above videos!

Spring Compressor, for Wishbone Suspension, 207 Mm Travel, Mercedes (Klann Tools: model 0021) Price: $820.64
http://www.automotivetools.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-KL-0021.html?E+scstore

AAAAAhhhhh!!! 'spensive stuff; German goodness.... tho!

Klann/Gedore German specialty tools; superior tool or "overengineering"?

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