"The Man Hole" - My 36' x 40' Garage

It's time for a proper GARAGE! I have been planning this for a while and working with the township on their regulations. My biggest hang up was 15' overall height restriction and my desire to have a car lift.

Garage will be 36' wide, 40' deep, 10' side walls. 3 doors across the front, 1 door in the rear. If you do the math that would be a 6 car garage Below is a rough sketch of what the garage will look like along with the placement on the 'compound' - you can see the L shaped home in the picture as well (flat in the picture).

The work has been started but the main project (foundation) should start in about 6-8 weeks. I'm sure I'll be posting lots of pictures along the way.



The garage will follow the property line (where those bush things are) and run along the front edge of the parking pad.



This tree is coming down on Friday...



Well a crude drawing of the interior layout. First off - this is how I'm going to be referring to the bays going forward. #1 is closest to the house, man door on the left. #2 is the rear roll up door. #4, 5, 6 are the parking bays.



Now, on to my initial lay out sketch.



A walk around bay #1 shows cabinets and pegboard on the outside wall, then the man door. I left a little wiggle room there for now as I'm sure the electric panel will be in there somewhere. In the corner is the Air compressor - I would like to do a 'closet' for it to contain the sound. Bathroom is next. Basically, toilet and utility sink. Thinking urinal as well; but we will see on space. Finally tool box.

#2 is the lift. Figure each bay is 12' wide and 20' deep. The plan is the offset the lift between #2 and #5 giving me the most flexibility in space. If I set it 15' from the rear door that would leave me 25' from the front door. It would also allow me to lift something close to 30' long symmetrically. I would like to do more work on trailers, so this would be beneficial.

#3 will be bulk storage along the back wall. Thinking pallet racking with an open base so I get store some larger tools under the rack. I have a full array of wood working and metal working tools - so organized storage is key. Of course the lawn mower and my motorcycle need to have a home too.

#4-6 will be the main parking bays.

Tools:
I'm planning to get an 80 gal air compressor. Eventually I want to plumb the shop and also would like to get a plasma cutter/bead cabinet/etc. - all of which need higher compression than a standard 100psi compressor will do. I'm thinking a 2 stage compressor is the way to go - but starting price for those is around $1,800. Thinking about this one: http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Air-Force-AF8-Plus-Two-Stage-Single-Phase-80-Gallon-Air-Compressor-Blemished because that is the same place I'll be going to get my lift.

The lift I have settled on is the Atlas PV10P. http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-PV-10P
It's 10K rated and runs both symmetrical and asymmetrical. I think that it provides the most flexibility out of all the lifts I have looked at. Seems the biggest issue with this lift is the directions are 'lacking' but overall reviews are positive. I was looking at a motorcycle lift as well but thanks to this:



http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56388

I'm just going to utilize the 2 post lift with a home made attachment.

I would like to find some industrial pallet racking that is more wider than what I can buy at Lowes. Anyone have any ideas?

Utilities:
So I know we are upgrading the electric service to the house which will feed the garage. So a trench is needed. In the backyard the sewer runs out the back of the house, runs towards the side yard, then follows the side road to the main road connection. So digging a trench from the house to the garage will cross that sewer pipe. Might as well connect up right

I can run a water line from the house as well. Figured just cold water line and then use an inline water heater for the sink.

We also have natural gas service at the house - would be nice to run a line to the garage maybe for future heat or something.

My thought was to run everything in one ditch. My problem is I'm not finding any helpful information about distances between items. I was planning to run 2 separate 2" conduit next to each other. Planning on using schedule 80 PVC. One for the electric service, one for future additions like LAN cable, coax cable, intercom, maybe running an airline back to the main house - whatever the needs may be. I was planning to run PEX water line - I should be under the frost line for this but if I'm not it will be surrounded by 2" form board. How far away should a water line be from electric? Also, if I run a gas line should it be the threaded pipe or flexible hose? Should it also go through another pipe like I'm doing for the electric? What is the recommend distance between the utilities?

Oh how I already can't sleep thinking of all of these things....and the work hasn't even started yet.

"The Manhole", sorry for this, but the last time I heard this name was a gay bar in Cleveland Ohio with great hamburgers.

No worries. It started off with my first house. The basement access was literally a hole with a ladder. My wife told me if I wanted my own "man space" it could be down in the "hole" and dubbed it the "man hole." Pretty much has stuck ever since.

I like it much better than Man Cave!

It's got a cooler "bunker" feeling to it.

That's a pretty nice scooter.

Not mine - just a pic of the lift adapter someone built for their bike.

Here is mine:

I do like the looks of the shop, I also look forward to the pictures and details of the build. Don't get annoyed with some of us, you are on the internet so there are all kinds. As for the name you used for the space, don't be surprised if you get a little ribbing from the crowd, it has a terrible slang connotation and a lot of us have dirty minds.

I like that one too.

lojim said:

Pretty much has stuck ever since.

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The time has come to unstick it. Every major city has a bar called The Man Hole and I don't think you want the wrong crowd showing up unannounced trying to get in to your Man Hole.

A quick google search only shows one in Chicago - not every major city in America. Pretty sure I don't care what others say about the name of MY shop. If that is all people can focus on then I really got the wrong impression form this board.

Don't get the wrong impression from the reaction of a few guys to your garage name!

Be sure to start a build thread in the Garage Gallery, and include lots and lots of pictures -we like to see things as they progress. Occasionally, you may run up against a problem and that's when this board is invaluable. Post it up and you'll be sure to get lots of suggestions.

Thanks for sharing...looking forward to more.

Just a suggestion.......Un-capitalize the word Man, and don't put a space between "Man" and "Hole". If you take off the restricted search on a search engine and type in "Man Hole" you will see things that require a serious dose or two of Eye Bleach!!!!!!

Looking forward to the build though. I'm also limited to a 15' height on the addition I am planning, and I also am looking at putting a lift in, so I will be following your thread, and may add to it, if I can ever get a quote back from the contractor that I had planned on doing it.

Also, if you don't mind, could you put the state that you live in, into your profile? It helps answering questions that may come up from time to time. No need to put a city or town in, but at least with a state, for ones that may think about building something, they can relate to what hoops you may have to jump through if they are close to you. Every place has different rules, and you may even have questions that other ones can answer if they have some sort of idea where you're at. Thanks.....and I'll be following this thread. I'm going to be putting ion a 36' x 36' addition, and I really need a lift, and by your pic, it looks like you are going with a two post, which is what I am wanting to put in. So you're build will peak my interest.

My contractor is working with a truss company right now to see if they can get scissor trusses tight enough on a 38' span (1' overhang each side) to allow for 12' height and 12' width. If not, we have a plan B but it would really change the look of the building (think wide dormers). Going with 10' side walls so right now the pitch of the roof will be something around 3.8/12.

Cumberland County PA by the way.

Yes I'm going with a 2 post lift. Biggest bang for the buck as far as I'm concerned.

lojim said:

My contractor is working with a truss company right now to see if they can get scissor trusses tight enough on a 38' span (1' overhang each side) to allow for 12' height and 12' width. If not, we have a plan B but it would really change the look of the building (think wide dormers). Going with 10' side walls so right now the pitch of the roof will be something around 3.8/12.

Cumberland County PA by the way.

Yes I'm going with a 2 post lift. Biggest bang for the buck as far as I'm concerned.

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I'm hoping that I can go with 10' walls, but at a 36' span things might put me over in height. Currently on the existing garage, I have a 4/12 pitch that is on the 28' dimension. When I lay out 8' walls, with the same pitch, I am at 14' with the roof having a 4/12 pitch. The County guy that I was speaking with, said I could possibly get by with adding another foot or so to the height as the house is setting up higher than what my garage sets. So as long as I can get a lift in, and have adequate height under it, I will be happy.

Are you separating each of these bays somehow?

Open floor plan - just marked out on my diagram so it's easier to visualize.

Kevin54 said:

I'm hoping that I can go with 10' walls, but at a 36' span things might put me over in height. Currently on the existing garage, I have a 4/12 pitch that is on the 28' dimension. When I lay out 8' walls, with the same pitch, I am at 14' with the roof having a 4/12 pitch. The County guy that I was speaking with, said I could possibly get by with adding another foot or so to the height as the house is setting up higher than what my garage sets. So as long as I can get a lift in, and have adequate height under it, I will be happy.

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Do you need a 4/12? That pitch over 38' (1' overhangs) will give you ~6' 4" rise. You might be able to sneak 9' walls depending on if your township is firm with 15' or if they will allow that. My biggest hang up is clearing the 12' for the lift - so I sacrificed roof pitch to allow for more height. Just waiting to see if the trusses can be engineered to do this...

lojim said:

Do you need a 4/12? That pitch over 38' (1' overhangs) will give you ~6' 4" rise. You might be able to sneak 9' walls depending on if your township is firm with 15' or if they will allow that. My biggest hang up is clearing the 12' for the lift - so I sacrificed roof pitch to allow for more height. Just waiting to see if the trusses can be engineered to do this...

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You and I are in the same boat. Like the County guy told me......"the house is setting higher than the existing garage, so you can probably get by with a little more height."

The bad thing is that I can't get a base price from the contractor as far as cost. I did stop down and spoke with a neighbor on out road that they are getting ready to build a Pole Barn. The wife, who I was speaking to, is on top of things. She was telling me what they had to do to be legal for running water and having a bathroom. When it comes to that, they have to put in a holding tank, 1000 gallons. You can't tie in to an existing septic system, and the 1000 gallon holding tank does not have a leech system. So with that, it has to be pumped every year. I'm only about 15' from being able to tie into our existing system, but I'm not against adding a 1000 holding tank. This also includes the neighbors having a drain in the floor. So along with trying to get a cost of having a building put up, I need to speak with the County health Department.

And like I stated somewhere, the person that is doing their pole barn, is trying to get out on his own. Hopefully I can get a decent price from him. I was really going to give the contractor that I spoke with the benefit of the doubt, but it appears to me that he is going to be like most contractors around where I live. Talk a great game over coffee, but when it boils down to it, they don't do anything but talk. I've had to go out of town for everything in the 21 years we have lived here.

I looked at pole barns but ran into the issues of truss design with every one. I went with an Amish shed company who will build mine.

lojim said:

A quick google search only shows one in Chicago - not every major city in America. Pretty sure I don't care what others say about the name of MY shop. If that is all people can focus on then I really got the wrong impression form this board.

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It probably depends on what one's cutoff is for a "major city" but if the folks in your life are mature enough to not to think the wrong things, then that's a great thing. (I still wouldn't put up a sign, or anything like that.) The folks in my life are of this ilk, but they tend to think back to a time when they weren't so mature - and that's when the comments come out.

Is this thing really real? Do you have the cost nailed down yet? (Assuming the space is temperature controlled, I'd estimate the cost between $200K-$250K when you add a normal foundation, high walls, water, sewer, electrical, gas, etc.) From your drawing, the garage dwarfs the house in a residential neighborhood. Has your zoning board approved it?


If your project scope is aligned to a budget and you have your zoning approval, those are big hurdles. If not, you can probably get some good pointers here to help narrow those things down.

Structurally, I don't think you need to worry about the trusses. They can be designed. (They may be expensive, though.) Your bigger challenge could be your planned truss layout and the location of the doors. Doors in the front and back with trusses parallel to the door walls will make the building weak laterally. Standing up against wind loads could be a challenge, so you may save some time and effort later on by engaging an engineer early in the process. You could find that you could save 10%+ on the total cost of the building by putting a steel beam between bays 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 with a few columns and running your trusses the other direction.

Thanks for the reply. Yes it is under contract and approved and concrete will be coming next month. Space will not be temperature controlled to save some initial costs for now. Basic finished shell is what I'm getting from the builder - I will be doing the rest. Shop is 1440 square feet. Home is ~2700 square feet and the building with not be as tall as the house overall - just looks a bit out of proportion in the picture because the house is not in 3D.

As far as the loads, that is what the engineers are for. The design was engineered and provided to the builder. I just sit back and write checks for now...

That should bring your costs down if they are just doing the shell.

Do you know how the lateral bracing around the garage doors was engineered? That's definitely a detail that you'll want to understand and watch your contractor on, especially if you have any tall doors. (Assuming that you aren't paying your A/E to check the builder's work.). These details are very easy for builders to "forget."

Thanks for the input. I'll keep it in mind when the time comes.

They made quick work of that...

What a difference a day makes. Tree down along with the bushes from the property line.

Is 40' deep enough for how your laid out? If you have trucks that will get small real fast. My garage is 40' deep and I treat it as only one bay deep......
You need 50' to work on most vehicles double deep

I don't have any long standing projects. Most of what I work on is fixing trailers, etc - day job stuff. The center bays will be used heavily for projects which is why I'm not planning for them to be parking all the time. We have enough parking as it is for everything to not be in the garage once completed - so if I need the space for a project I'll have it. The point is to plan to use it for parking and most of the time the rest of the space will be sufficient.

Nice plan. Almost the same size building I'm building now and I'm in NEPA… Good luck on your build.

woodrail said:

"The Manhole", sorry for this, but the last time I heard this name was a gay bar in Cleveland Ohio with great hamburgers.

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I'm not asking about the hamburgers but if you're hanging at gay bars, you might want to keep these handy.

Update on the building. It has been delayed for some personal items with my builder.

The builder's son passed away recently so rightfully so he needs some time with his family before he can start. Should be another week or two before I have a concrete start date.

For those who want the details, his name was Cody and he was 4 months old. He was the youngest of 5 children. The last days of his life he was able to spend at home in the arms of all his family that loved him. He had complications from day 1, but that does not make loosing a child any easier. My heart goes out to the whole family.

Hopefully my next update will be a more positive one.

After some time off for my builder he is ready to get back to work. Additionally...Permit was issued! Should be starting next week. Went and picked up some supplies for the ditch today:

Looking great so far. I definitely support the two post lift decision. I know if it were me the next to lift storage would be kinda hairy since it would end up cluttering and restricting lift access. It looks like you are giving storage options some good thought though so I'm sure you will manage it just fine.

As for your builder my heart goes out to him and his family. This is a very tough situation and though the wounds won't heal any time soon, maybe getting back to a normal routine is the best thing for them right now.

Everything is looking great so far and I'm definitely going to sub along for the ride!

Here are the basics:




Of course this is just tentative and I'm sure things will change once the building is up and I start putting everything in it.

Plans look great , keep us posted.

Storage along the wall is going to be pretty cool. Looks like you are going to have a lot of space to keep things out of the way. Are you dropping the storage closet idea for the air compressor, or maybe it was easier to show the AC in the mock up? Also are you considering any type of workbench area?

I'm still torn about the storage for the compressor. I'm leaning towards having it right near the door because 90% of the time I'm in the shop the door is open anyway. Mast of Horne sound will just escape outdoors then.

As for the work bench area there will be a small one built in near the compressor. That will be for small projects. I will use the lift for the majority of the other projects. I'm planning to build a motorcycle platform that will be multi purpose - that way I save on some space.

One day down. Everything dug and footers poured. Well on our way now! Even got the supply lines in the ditch.

Update from the wife!

Video for Day 2!

I just caught this thread and I only wish I had room for so much shop. I'm assuming the truss' are already ordered? If not, you might consider a vaulted style for over the lift. It would give you some headroom up in the rafters but make the lift overhead a bit better.