Flakes are applied, now what??

I just finished applying the Devoe Devran 224HS epoxy and desert sand flakes. I couldn't be happier with the results. Once it dries, assume I blow or sweep the excess flakes off prior to clearcoating? Do I want to force any partially stuck flakes loose or let the clearcoat trap them in?

Thanks.

Proper Final Clear Coat Process

Based on your question it sounds like you did a FULL BROADCAST.

GOOD CHOICE

It is EXTREMELY important you "knock down" those chips that are partially stuck and that will not get swept up.

First, Sweep off all the chips that are loose and just sitting on the floor. SAVE THESE SEPERATE from those in later steps.

First I would 'scrape' the floor with an ice chopper or a stiff blade straight scraper.

Using down pressure and getting aggressive, scrape trying to get all the excess chips knocked loose from the base coat. DON'T worry about 'scratches' in the floor. Also you may notice a "dulling" of the finish, DON'T worry, this will be normal. ALL the Color will COME back.

Next Sweep all of the loose material off the floor. THROW THIS AWAY!!!

Now EVEN if you want to end up with a smooth surface I would HIGHLY suggest you use a pole sander like what you would use for sanding drywall, using a 80 - 100 grit sand paper or drywall sanding screen. Again, I would not worry about getting too aggressive with it. Sanding until you can run your hand across the floor without feeling 'sharp' edges. If you sand off too much and you see some of the base coat show through or even if you see the bare concrete DON'T Panic. You will EASILY fix this in a later step.

once you have gotten the texture like you want Sweep again.

TIP: don't sweep in long strokes, Take VERY SMALL 8-10" strokes at a time.

TAKE TIME on this step and make sure all the debris is removed.

NEXT ALMOST THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Vacuum around ALL edges, and hard to reach areas. Make sure to remove ALL loose material.

NOW you are ready to start your clear coat. Remember those chips we saved on the first step, Keep a small bucket or cup of these handy while you are rolling out your clear coat. I use a small bucket with a handle and a small clip or wire and attach it to my belt by my right side (right handed).

If you exposed some bare spots while sanding start by using your brush to 'wet' those spots first. LIGHTLY SPRINKLE chips into the wet coating. DON'T roll over them at this time.

Now start rolling out your floor with the clear. I highly recommend you wear spike shoes when rolling out the clear coat. 2 reasons, You can Easily RECHIP areas that don't look the same, AND you can take out SHINER's (shine spots that WILL NOT GO AWAY ON THEIR OWN EVEN if using a "self leveling" product.)

When rolling out your clear roll it out as good as you can as you add new product. once you have gone the width of the floor x 10-12' out. GO BACK to where you started. Bring your roller and chips. look over the floor to see AT EYE LEVEL if you notice any spots where the chip pattern is not consistent with your floor. Take a SMALL pinch of chips and lightly drop them STANDING UP. Apply the sprinkle until you get the pattern you want. Don't apply a PILE of chips like when you chipped the floor.

NOW after you have rechipped the areas that need them roll over them again WITHOUT adding product. Also you will NOT want to add any DOWN PRESSURE on the roller while you are rolling this out. Just lay the roller on the floor and push and pull it from the end of the handle.

Once you have rolled over the rechip areas. NOW is the time you look for shiners. Have open All the doors and turn on all light sources in your garage. Using the light as a guide look for areas where the coating is thicker and shinnier than the rest. Again using NO down pressure roll your roller over the area, picking up the excess material and spreading it out across the adjacent areas.

Walk around on the floor looking at different light angles. Have a friend look from off the floor to see if they see any from their angle. Once you have gotten rid of all the shiners.

NOW the TIP the professionals WON'T tell you, I call it the LAWN MOWER: Take your roller starting in one corner. Lay the roller down PERPENDICULAR to the way you rolled out the floor. Now pull the roller across the floor IN ONE CONSISTENT FLUID MOTION. Pull it all the way to the opposite wall. Lift the roller TURN IT 180 DEGREES, lay it down on the floor, slightly overlapping the previous run.

You can overlap as much as you want but if you 'miss' a strip you must go back and lap it again from the start of that run. Continue this process pulling the roller in the same pattern until you reach the end.

Continue rolling out new product covering the floor every 10-15' repeat the rechip / Shiner / lawn mower technique until you have completed the floor.

Using this step will give you a PERFECT floor, Perfect Texture, PERFECT color pattern. Until you put on the LAST clear coat ANY FUFU can be FIXED.

Hope this helps.

I would agree with some of the methods stated, but the sanding part a bit out there. I have never heard of a Pro flooring guy sanding the floor after the scraping in both directions and then vacuuming any small flake fragments that may still be there.

Actually alittle texture to a full broadcast flake floor is not a bad thing and really gives the floor a great looking profile.

I would also be careful with that heavy scraping tool shown, you can do some quick damage if you apply too much pressure. If you have a plastic snow shovel or a large plastic shovel these work well and limit the amount of possible floor/flake damage during the scraping process.

Some good advice though from the epoxy guy on some methods, just the sanding part sounded a bit different.

I would just add to use a stiff squeegee after pouring out a workable amount of product and spread over the area your working and then use an 18" roller to complete the application of the top coat. This is best done with two people and if your working in a garage larger then 500ft2 I would do it in sections.

Best of luck to you sounds like your going to have a great looking floor.

Some great tips there!

If you wanted an extremely smooth finish then the sanding is a required step, but generally that level of smoothness may not be desired. After a heavy broadcast with a good scraping, and then clearcoat, the finish is like a textured roll out linoleum floor. The texture, along with the flake colors, does a good job of masking small substrate imperfections, eventual nicks, and dirt in between cleanings. It also can help keep the floor from being to slippery if it gets wet, although if that's a concern a grip additive should be applied in the clear coat.

But, if you do want that glass smooth look, then you need to scrape and sand. Keep in mind that the final clear coat is usually only a few mil thick, and it doesn't magically smooth out everything it covers. It self levels to a point, but it will somewhat telegraph the contours of the previous layer and flakes.

And yes, depending on timing the epoxy may not be fully cured, so we suggest a stiff plastic blade as opposed to a metal one.

Also as noted, when it comes to the clear coat if you only have overhead, or just a couple of sources of light, it can be very difficult to see what's been coated and what hasn't. It's not unheard of to accidentally miss coating several square feet of the final coat! We've received a few calls from folks who missed a spot or two and need to order extra product. Having someone else double check helps a lot, and another assist is to have a bright light that can be projected from a low angle, about waist level or so. The light will cast longer shadows that will define and highlight differing textures. This can also help when looking for flakes that need to be scraped or knocked down.

For an Example of what 'Shiners' the Lawnmower fixes look at my post @


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25372

I am NOT picking on this poster just using his pic as an example of what "nit-picky" things can be fixed by using this simple trick.

JD in DFW said:

I would agree with some of the methods stated, but the sanding part a bit out there. I have never heard of a Pro flooring guy sanding the floor after the scraping in both directions and then vacuuming any small flake fragments that may still be there.



I would also be careful with that heavy scraping tool shown, you can do some quick damage if you apply too much pressure. If you have a plastic snow shovel or a large plastic shovel these work well and limit the amount of possible floor/flake damage during the scraping process.

Some good advice though from the epoxy guy on some methods, just the sanding part sounded a bit different.

Click to expand...

First I DID NOT recommend scraping "both ways".

Second There is a VERY good reason for the sanding. NO one scrapes PERFECTLY Consistent over the entire floor. By sanding the floor you can make sure the texture is Consistent. I agree, TEXTURE is needed. But by starting with a Consistently Textured 'base', You can ad a Texture additive. This is VERY cheap and will make your overall Texture VERY consistent.

All the floors we do the BIGGEST COMPLAINT has to do with SHEEN and Texture. So by adding a couple extra steps I know that the floor will be 100% consistent in SHEEN and Texture. (by the way the TWO MOST EXPENSIVE problems to FIX).

Thirdly, Based on a couple replies on this thread, It seams that some of you touting the "100% solids is the Best", are AFRAID of SCRAPING TOO HARD???

WHAT??? I thought your stuff was TOUGH????

And you are afraid of a little scraper? My product is NOT 100% solids. 2 Hours (or less) after broadcasting chips I can use a scraper like the one in the pic and scrape Quite aggressively and NOT worry about MY product "getting a little scratch".

Fourth: I did see a recent post where someone suggested NOT using a texture additive. First of all In the post I noticed he used a commonly used texture additive in the clear. If you purchase "store brand" texture I 100% agree it is NOT a good idea to mix it in with the clear. Their product is a natural sand product and will definitely settle out. We use our Proprietary Texture additive. It is VERY light and VERY durable. It can be Mixed into the clear and it will stay suspended without problem.

The above post is NOT provided for the LAZY, Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am, Contractors out there. I pride myself on finish and appearance of my floors. I have homeowners and businesses alike pay me 40% more than my competition BECAUSE I make EVERY job look like it was for myself Or BETTER.

So Yeah I am A LOT "out there", Out there where a Select FEW contractors that go the extra Mile to make their floors PERFECT. EVERY FLOOR, EVERY TIME.

The reason we don't suggest scraping too hard a couple of hours after application is that the epoxy isn't fully cured yet. Our DIY epoxy is formulated to have a longer pot life than some of our commercial products, that allows the applicator, who is probably doing their first epoxy floor, to roll out the coating in a somewhat relaxed manner without having to worry about the product becoming unworkable. The longer pot life also extends the cure time a bit. It's a trade off, but DIY customer feedback indicates it's the best way to go. Once the epoxy's set - bring on the pain!

'the epoxy floor guy' said:

First I DID NOT recommend scraping "both ways".

Second There is a VERY good reason for the sanding. NO one scrapes PERFECTLY Consistent over the entire floor. By sanding the floor you can make sure the texture is Consistent. I agree, TEXTURE is needed. But by starting with a Consistently Textured 'base', You can ad a Texture additive. This is VERY cheap and will make your overall Texture VERY consistent.

All the floors we do the BIGGEST COMPLAINT has to do with SHEEN and Texture. So by adding a couple extra steps I know that the floor will be 100% consistent in SHEEN and Texture. (by the way the TWO MOST EXPENSIVE problems to FIX).

Thirdly, Based on a couple replies on this thread, It seams that some of you touting the "100% solids is the Best", are AFRAID of SCRAPING TOO HARD???

WHAT??? I thought your stuff was TOUGH????

And you are afraid of a little scraper? My product is NOT 100% solids. 2 Hours (or less) after broadcasting chips I can use a scraper like the one in the pic and scrape Quite aggressively and NOT worry about MY product "getting a little scratch".

Fourth: I did see a recent post where someone suggested NOT using a texture additive. First of all In the post I noticed he used a commonly used texture additive in the clear. If you purchase "store brand" texture I 100% agree it is NOT a good idea to mix it in with the clear. Their product is a natural sand product and will definitely settle out. We use our Proprietary Texture additive. It is VERY light and VERY durable. It can be Mixed into the clear and it will stay suspended without problem.

The above post is NOT provided for the LAZY, Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am, Contractors out there. I pride myself on finish and appearance of my floors. I have homeowners and businesses alike pay me 40% more than my competition BECAUSE I make EVERY job look like it was for myself Or BETTER.

So Yeah I am A LOT "out there", Out there where a Select FEW contractors that go the extra Mile to make their floors PERFECT. EVERY FLOOR, EVERY TIME.

Click to expand...

I must say you know not what you speak.

Every product has it's own best practices. I've sanded full and partial chip floors (in 100% solids epoxy) with my floor machine before doing the finish coats. I never worry about sanding though but on floors with a few humps and bumps you can burnish the high areas enough to make them a smoother texture than the rest of the floor. DIYers shouldn't listen to my advice though!

Lately I've been doing one day polyaspartic floors (Citadel) and those you have to scrape.

Well,for closure, I did NOT get so radical as to scrape and sand. But for those who don't know, you do in fact need to remove all the loose flakes and those that can be knocked loose before applying your topcoat. I used a very, very stiff 10" wide nylon brush head from Lowes screwed onto my 5' paint handle, and scrubbed the heck out of it the third day after I flaked it. Then I blew it out with the shop vac and brushed and vac'd again. Then I laid on my first coat of urethane with 1/4" nap roller. I could have stopped there leaving a true bumpy "texture" from the flakes, but I wound up doing a second coat just for peace of mind. Now there is some very slight texture caused by the flakes being uneven under the urethane (which is exactly what I wanted), but otherwise the finish is beautiful. I just rolled my big Snap on toolbox and work table back in today and will bring the cars in this week, having allowed it all to dry for 8-10 days.