Highest and best use for a 4 inch thick steel table that is 3 x 4 foot and on a stand

drivesitfar · Aug 3, 2014

i rarely reside on this side of GJ because i tend to want to buy everything i see so for now vises and other tools are getting my attention.

I have a question or maybe a few. i was just looking for a little 4 x 4 maybe half inch thick welding table so i could maybe start learning how to weld and came upon this 4 inch thick gem.

i have a client that has an awesome piece of steel that is 3 x 4 foot and 4 inches thick. it doesn't have a flaw that i can see on the entire face. it has a custom made stand for it so it sits flat about 3 feet off the ground. I want to buy it from him and take it to my shop, but i have a couple questions.

First off what is the best way to move it off my trailer since he is able to load it on with his forklift? i'm guessing it weighs close to a ton, but maybe you guys that move Acorn tables and such might know better. how can i move it 30 feet off my trailer without damaging it?

next question other than beating things flat as a pancake with one of my maybe 100 or 200 hammers that i now own, what is the highest and best use for a nice piece of steel like this? probably good for cold steel and i'll have to find another anvil for the hot because i just sold a couple Peter Wrights i had sitting around waiting for me to use them.

pictures isn't the best, but maybe you get the idea. there also a couple inches of the steel sitting inside the frame of the table or stand it is sitting on. any help is always appreciated.

thanks in advance for any wisdom and i'm always up for a challenge or to learn something new.

s14kev · Aug 3, 2014

Wow! Impressive. I wouldn't trust that base to support the top. Looks flimsy.

A_Pmech · Aug 3, 2014

That looks like a cast iron surface plate. The give-away is that the sides have been broad-nosed on a planer. It's probably webbed underneath, not solid. Assuming it's solid, it would weigh about 1,900 lbs +-. If it's webbed, probably 1/3rd to 1/2 of that.

Don't use it as an anvil. Use it as a location to mount a nice heavy vise. The rest of the table will work well for use as a general flat reference surface for fabrication work. Drill and tap a grid of 5/8 - 11 holes for use with a standard milling machine hold-down kit and it's even more versatile.

To remove it without a forklift, I would lift it with an engine hoist, drive the trailer out and lower it to the floor.

Just_George · Aug 3, 2014

Okay, first the important stuff - you ****. There, now that that is out of the way...

At roughly 160/sq-ft, it's going to be around 1900 pounds. A forklift would obviously be the best and easiest way to move it, but I'm betting that's not an option in your garage (if it is....add a second "you ****" to the above!) You could probably do it with a 2-ton engine hoist, but it would be a challenge. I think if it were me, I might pay a guy with a wrecker to come and lift it off the trailer and onto the stand. At that point, it can probably best be moved with a pallet jack (or two) Might have to rent or borrow those, but it should work.

I think that would make a fantastic welding/fabricating table! Fact is, it'd be great for pretty much any kind of workbench application...you just can't go wrong! Congrats...

drivesitfar · Aug 3, 2014

S14: thanks for the warning, but it's been in a big company's factory floor with people working around it for years so it should be ok.

AP: you are giving me great ideas. could move a few things around in the shop and back the trailer up inside and maybe borrow the neighbor's engine lift if it might work. i love the idea about tapping a few holes in it, but i do like the clean surface too.

i didn't think it wasn't solid, but the bottom is open so i'll check and see if it isn't. i think the owner said one solid piece.

JG: i can only take one YS at this point and not really even that until i actually own it, but thanks for the love. sorry a fork lift is on the list and i almost bought a nice 5000 pound Toyota pallet jack last month for $200 so maybe i should get one.

ALL: anybody in South Seattle have a fork lift to rent or trade for something except this piece of steel?? or can i just rent a fork lift and where and any idea how much for an hour??

A_Pmech · Aug 3, 2014

Small (5,000lb) forklifts usually rent for about $125 a day and $3 per mile for delivery I've found. Most any forklift company should be able to provide a daily rental.

drivesitfar · Aug 3, 2014

AP: thanks for the information on the fork lifts.

just curious since i know you have a big machine or two can you tell me if it is a solid piece and weighs 2000 pounds would there be some good casters i could buy to put on the legs? i was thinking of putting it against the wall under some racks and just pulling it out when i want to work on it. or should i just buy a nice pallet jack because not positive my shop is perfectly level?

All: i almost bought this welding bench about a year ago from a guy that made hydroplanes and was retiring. i thought it was pretty cool and just didn't want to spend the $600 on it since i have yet learned how to weld. maybe i can dress up the stand a bit for this 4 inch thick piece to match it's quality? Oh and learn to weld.

there was a white version of this type of welding table on the front page of GJ with hydraulic jacks on it to raise the table so it could roll around. anybody save those pictures to post on this thread because i should have and didn't?

drivesitfar · Aug 3, 2014

here is a picture of another idea i have. i have these two rolling tables that can hold 3000 plus pounds. my question is can i have the fork lift set the 4 inch thick piece on my trailer's floor somehow maybe on a few pieces of pipe. then block it in so it rides the 40 miles on my trailer without blowing out the side and then roll it on the rolling table to move it inside my shop.

at that point maybe i can tap a few holes in the side for something to strap it to and lift it on a new stand after i build one? or should holes not be tapped on the side and only on the top??

thanks and just throwing out ideas because i would like to own this and get a full YS from JG.

dr_clyde · Aug 3, 2014

I second renting a forklift. Makes things way, way easier. Otherwise, I would use an engine hoist to get it onto a set of machinery skates and use those to move it around to position it. You can make a set of small skates really easy with some ball bearings and some cold rolled plate. Its only 2000 pounds so it shouldn't be too much trouble to get around on some skates. Be careful, its top heavy.

I wouldn't put it on casters, it'll piss you off when you try to use the vise.

brewchief · Aug 3, 2014

Sunbelt rentals has several locations near you and it looks like a 3000# forklift is 180$ for 4 hours, I would assume that delivery would be extra.

A machinery rigging company might be an option as well, worth a phone call.

bad_idea · Aug 3, 2014

Maybe an ad on CL for someone to move it for you? 20 minutes of someone's time w/ the right gear.

adcrawfo · Aug 3, 2014

You can tap the sides but only use safety swivels, eye bolts aren't rated for that type of lift. If you tap thru the top then use eye bolts all day long, just make sure you shoulder them all the way.

Slowboat · Aug 3, 2014

I used a 2 ton engine hoist for my 4x4 by 3 1/2" solid welding bench. Worked great...

BD1 · Aug 3, 2014

While he has it lifted with fork truck, remove those levelers and bolt ''C'' channel to the legs .Set table on 4''x4''s so you can jack up table to set it on rollers. Load on trailer and use maybe some 2'' schedule 40 pipe for rollers to unload. Might need a rope for hold back or a couple of come a longs and some slings.

ClintNZ · Aug 3, 2014

drivesitfar said:
would there be some good casters i could buy to put on the legs? ?

To get the most use out of that thing you should level it up with the adjustable feet. Get it dead level & eliminate any deflection of the top. Borrow a precision machinists level if you can.

Cheers
Clint

DekeT · Aug 3, 2014

aircraft carrier?

larry_g · Aug 3, 2014

Show us a picture of your trailer.. Is it a tilt bed, solid deck, or a car type hauler? Me I would remove the feet and lag it down to a couple of 4x6 timbers . Taper the ends of the timbers and you have a skid. Now you can drag it fairly easily. If you have a tilt bed then just drag it off. Use a floor jack to rise it enough to get one end back on the feet then the other. Now use a 4x6 between the two lower end braces and again pick the whole thing with the floor jack and roll/drag it where you want it. You only remove the weight from the feet. If you look in my build thread below to can see a picture of moving a lathe in a similar way. Also in my build thread you can see the drop deck trailer that I rented. Might be worth your while and cheaper than a forklift. You might also see how I skidded the big mill to move it.

lg
no enat sig line

RivennHewn · Aug 3, 2014

There was an ad on Seattle CL for a guy that moves heavy equipment such as lathes and milling machines.

Maybe do a search there.

drivesitfar · Aug 4, 2014

thanks all for the great thoughts and ideas and I'm getting the picture. here is my trailer which doesn't look like much but it is a couple inches each way over a 4 x 8 and made out of aluminum. it is rated for i think 5000 pounds, but that might be 3500 in real weight. I've had several loads of gym equipment approaching that. i also have a Honda Pilot to pull my trailer because sold the CRV in the picture so a bit more power.

since my trailer has a 3/4 inch wood floor i might have to throw a 1/4 inch plate on top of the marine plywood. i don't think i have a piece that big around the shop, but i do have 3/4 inch rubber horse mats on top of the plywood now.

i could also rent a 6 x 12 or 5 x 9 UHaul for $35 or $20 for the day so i might do that option if i don't find somebody to move it all.

i'm still wondering what the advantages of have a 4 inch piece of steel as opposed to a half inch one so if anybody has a good answer please do tell.

thanks guys

zkling · Aug 4, 2014

I recall you once mentioned that you sold a ~100lb dumbbell to one of your clients. Maybe it is time to call up some of your clients for a moving party. Brute force to get that thing on and off the trailer. :lol_hitti

Agree with AP Mech on all accounts though. I'd take a shot of the underside to see what you are really up against. Depending on the condition of the table I'd use it for either a welding table or a general workbench. YMMV. :dunno:

metal1313 · Aug 4, 2014

if you can put it on wood skids call a flat bed wrecker and have them winch it on the deck. then they can winch it off for you, the skids will allow you to use pipes to roll it. rollers and a lever can get a lot done

bad_idea · Aug 4, 2014

The thicker table will be flatter and more precise than the 1/2" thick top. If the top is cast, then weld spatter will scrape off easier. It's just plain cool to have a table that thick, conversation piece.

Jere · Aug 4, 2014

You could put a big sheet of sand paper on it and warped engine heads on the paper. Then work the warped surface flat again.

If you weld manifolds and bored some holes to mount the flange to the table with studs, you wouldn't have to worry about the flange warping. The table would act like a giant heat sink. It is great because it is a square surface to mock up what ever you are going to weld as far as square stuff goes. My 1\4 inch plate workbench is all kinds of squiggly and needs shimmed and measured constantly to keep projects square.

As far as moving goes I would use an engine lift and 4 HF moving dollies with 1\2 inch ply screwed on top of them. One for each corner, this works fine for compact cars around flat garages.

drivesitfar · Aug 5, 2014

Jere: thanks for the information about the thicker plate always being square where the half inch one or your quarter inch one might not be.

i have 4 metal car dollies that might just work if i can get the table with the plate on it off the trailer. my trailer bed is about 15 inches off the ground and the table top is about 36 inches high so does an engine lift go up that high? pushing it around the shop to it's permanent place on the 4 dollies might be doable though.

or just renting a fork lift if the engine lift doesn't extend far or tall enough might be easiest answer.

thanks

Kevin54 · Aug 5, 2014

Drivesitfar.......Instead of renting a forklift, call your local wrecker company. they can throw some soft straps around it and have it out of the trailer in no time, then you can set it on some dollies.

that is if your engine lift doesn't work. Which may not because you will have to have it shortened up due to the weight.

Jere · Aug 5, 2014

My engine lift at the pivot bolt is about 55 inches off the ground. So if the one you end up using is anything like mine you should be fine height wise. Now the arm that does the lifting might be the tricky part because it changes usable length as the arm arcs. I think it should work fine if you can back the trailer over the engine lift's lateral legs and use 4 short straps or chains.

Jack the table up off the trailer a few inches and drive the trailer off then roll the table around as needed (very cautiously ).

I moved a 800~1000 lbs oak tree stump into my garage in this manner a couple of weeks ago. The only difference was the stump came out of the truck bed (maybe 24 inches high). It sits at 36 inches tall on the cart/dolly on which it now resides.

that-guy · Aug 5, 2014

whats nice about those really thick surfaces is that they are pretty much guaranteed to stay flat and true without a chance of warpage. we have quite a few thick tables for QA purposes, most of which are actually really thick kitchen counter top material, so those aid in making sure our parts are 100%

you should beable to use an engine hoist to get it off, but i would still have a friend or two around to help make sure all goes smoothly

drivesitfar · Aug 5, 2014

instead of paying a tow truck or renting a fork lift. or buying or borrowing an engine lift that might not be tall enough or strong enough fully extended.

how about this? my neighbor sold his big steel frame to hand a chain hoist last week unfortunately, but i have some commercial racks i could set up to drive the trailer under.

i think my 10 foot tall and 4 foot wide racks with some 6 or 7 foot shelf supports and a piece of I beam across them with a chain hoist. anybody think i might break the rack with a ton even though the shelves are rated for more? would this table cave in the shelving unit? or is this idea approaching a Darwin award winner?

if that might work i could lift the table off the trailer a couple inches, pull the trailer out and drop the table on my 4 little dollies that i bought from a client that used them to move his Model T in and out of his garage. the dollies are cupped so maybe i can put in something to level them or maybe that isn't an issue? so how would i get if off the dollies the easiest way is my next question.

or just put it on the ground and buy a pallet ******** of Craigslist or a new one so i can move it against the wall. then if i ever need to move it out in the center of my shop to work on something big i'll have the pallet jack handy to do so.

drivesitfar · Aug 5, 2014

News Flash!!!!: Update on the thickness of the 4 inch steel table thanks to AP's suggestion that it might be webbed underneath. the owner and his workers never looked under it so to there surprise it is webbed like AP thought. thanks AP for the tip to take a look.

now it's still a good piece of steel and much more in my realm of moving it and using it in my shop. from the base of the stand it is 5 1/2 inches and there is a 3/4 inch plywood boarder under the piece of steel on top of the bench frame, then 3 1/2 inches to the bottom of the plate. so that makes the plate an 1 1/4 which in my mind is perfect. any thoughts on it now please feel free to give me the pros and cons.

i'm posting more pictures of it so you can all see what my challenges are. it does move around fairly easy with a pallet jack so i'll be buying one in the next couple days or weeks. anybody have a nice one they are not using that they want to sell?

i think i'm going to rent a Uhaul 5 x 9 trailer so i can strap it down good for the ride 30 miles to my shop and not worry about tearing apart my aluminum trailer. once i get it there i still have an issue to get it on the ground, but since it weighs about a quarter of what i thought it did i think an engine lift or my lift might work. here's a picture of my lift and i think with a couple of unistruts and several 100 pound weight plates on the back of it will it work?

if the lifts wont work maybe the tow truck or a fork lift rental is the best option to get it on the ground. or since it doesn't weigh a ton would a UHaul with a lift gate be an option?

machine_punk · Aug 5, 2014

I use wheel dollies to move heavy stuff like that, once I use an engine hoist, or air-over-hydraulic bottle jack, to get the heavy thing onto the dollies...

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Kev.

drivesitfar · Aug 5, 2014

Machine: i have similar dollies (4 of them), but my question is how to get on and off of them easily. i think once i get the table on the ground then a pallet jack is the best answer. I've been wanting one for a while now so this is a good excuse to buy one.

thanks for the comment and pictures

A_Pmech · Aug 5, 2014

If you're going to rent a U-haul trailer, I'd just let most of the air out of the tires and jack up the tongue.

drivesitfar · Aug 5, 2014

AP: i'm sure you probably have a good idea, but i'm not quite clear how to make it work. are you thinking i just pull it off with a pallet jack? or ??? why am i jacking up the tongue? more angle??

A_Pmech · Aug 5, 2014

If you let the air out of the tires and jack up the tongue, the tailboard should reach the ground. Then, you could drag it off the end of the trailer with whatever is convenient.

machine_punk · Aug 5, 2014

If you are getting a pallet jack anyway, that would definitely move it (as long as it is a smooth transition from the driveway to the garage floor). I used an engine crane...

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Kev

larry_g · Aug 5, 2014

drivesitfar said:
i think i'm going to rent a Uhaul 5 x 9 trailer so i can strap it down good for the ride 30 miles to my shop and not worry about tearing apart my aluminum trailer. once i get it there i still have an issue to get it on the ground,

Did you look at posts 15 and 19 in my build thread below? They show the drop deck trailer I rented. The same cost as a u-haul and the deck will drop to ground level for loading and unloading. Just wheel it off with your pallet jack.

here is trailer spec http://www.biljax.com/products/et-7000/

lg
no neat sig line

drivesitfar · Aug 6, 2014

AP: that's what i was thinking you were saying, but I think Larry has the trailer to rent if i can find one.

Machine: thanks a lot for the picture it helps me see how i might be able to move something else in the future.

Larry: thanks for showing me that trailer. do you happen to know what companies lease that trailer? also do you just call it a drop deck trailer if i call around?

thanks gentlemen and shopping for a drop deck trailer and a pallet jack now and any help to find those is appreciated.

scrumpy · Aug 6, 2014

Back it into the garage on the trailer. Two beams longer than the trailer width through the frame of the table and jack and block the four corners and drive the trailer out. Then lower it on the dollies bringing each end down a couple inches at a time.

-scrump

bczygan · Aug 6, 2014

Can you back the trailer into your shop, and place it where you want the table to go?

If so, I would run 2 12' 4x4's just under the top horizontally, and use your 2 tables for support on either side of the trailer. Use a auto jack to raise each end of each 4x4 up just enough for the table to lift off the trailer floor. Then drove it out from under the table.

Use the jack to raise, and then lower the 4x4's.

drivesitfar · Aug 6, 2014

BCZ & Scrumpy: sounds like you both have the same great idea. i do own several 12 ton house jacks so that could be an option to get the table off the trailer if i can't find a drop deck trailer and buy a pallet jack.

sorry to say i am not able to back my trailer into my shop so dropping it in place won't work. i also want the table up against the wall because i have a 4 x 8 table that is on casters that i'll have in the middle of the shop.

thanks for the great ideas. i understand completely how to get the table up off the trailer and just trying to wrap my mind around the method to get it to the ground. i'm sure i'll figure that out or if you guys want to post a picture or a better explanation on how to take it off the jacks please do.

Highest and best use for a 4 inch thick steel table that is 3 x 4 foot and on a stand

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