Laser etched sockets

Askme42 · Aug 13, 2014

Ok so I have the armstrong flex ratchets and had pretty much made up my mind that armstrong socket sets was the way I was going to go. Now I'm concerned that all the socket sized are laser etched and not stamped in. I expect these tools to last many years and if in a few years the laser etching will be gone and I can't tell what size they are what's the point?

Just wondering if some people have any experience with laser etched sockets and how do they hold up?

kythri · Aug 13, 2014

When did Armstrong stop stamping their sockets?

I know that the Craftsman stuff a few years back had dabbled with etched-only, but quickly migrated to dual-marked (stamped and etched).

I'm curious if the Armstrong etched-only are new old stock (NOS) stuff?

Either way - will it wear off? I put a laser-etched socket on an impact gun, wrapped it in steel wool and pulled the trigger - after about 60 seconds, it really didn't seem to have done that much to it.

I haven't taken a socket to a wire wheel or anything, but, eh? Even in "pro" use, I can't imagine there being so much wear on the exterior socket wall that it would cause the marking to wear off.

I'd still prefer a dual-marked solution, though - I like the look of the stampings, stuff doesn't feel right without it, but the laser-marked stuff is incredibly easy to read quickly.

Haveblue · Aug 13, 2014

It annoys the **** out of me, unless the socket is also stamped. I haven't seen any etching that holds up, I hate it! I really don't understand why anyone does this, it must be cheaper. I like stamped sizes!!

Askme42 · Aug 13, 2014

Here's their pic from the armstrong website.

Askme42 · Aug 13, 2014

I may be putting in one very large sk day order if I stray from armstrong.

jcfields · Aug 13, 2014

Fedwrench · Aug 13, 2014

Armstrong Maxx ratchets are sweet. However, their chrome sockets are nothing more than US made craftsman down to that funky double detent cut out on the female square drive end. The catalog picture is old stock. Current Armstrong sockets are dual marked with the high vis etching and small stamping.

Unlike the high vis markings Matco uses that leave a legible shadow long after the red or blue marking is gone, the gold laser etching will evaporate completely but, it takes years of daily cuda baths, constant exposure to brake clean and other solvents, and lots of rolling across shop floors and other abrasives contact. In short, I wouldn't worry about it.

However, I would reconsider your Armstrong socket purchase plans. :beer:

Askme42 · Aug 14, 2014

Fedwrench said:
Armstrong Maxx ratchets are sweet. However, their chrome sockets are nothing more than US made craftsman down to that funky double detent cut out on the female square drive end. The catalog picture is old stock. Current Armstrong sockets are dual marked with the high vis etching and small stamping.

Unlike the high vis markings Matco uses that leave a legible shadow long after the red or blue marking is gone, the gold laser etching will evaporate completely but, it takes years of daily cuda baths, constant exposure to brake clean and other solvents, and lots of rolling across shop floors and other abrasives contact. In short, I wouldn't worry about it.

However, I would reconsider your Armstrong socket purchase plans.

You all are certainly making me lean SK. Their chrome is so nice. Plus epsteins carrying a full line in stock helps a lot too.

Adam.C · Aug 14, 2014

I refuse to buy tools that aren't stamped. My rationale is that laser etch is cheap and indicates the tools are coming from some plant in china that makes tools for a dozen companies. I prefer to buy from some known, brand named source, committed to making a certain brand of tools. Not some fly by night Chinese firm making tools with their dedicated team of peasants and slaves. No thanks.

Ruger_556 · Aug 14, 2014

Adam.C said:
I refuse to buy tools that aren't stamped. My rationale is that laser etch is cheap and indicates the tools are coming from some plant in china that makes tools for a dozen companies. I prefer to buy from some known, brand named source, committed to making a certain brand of tools. Not some fly by night Chinese firm making tools with their dedicated team of peasants and slaves. No thanks.

Aren't the sockets in your avatar etched?

I took a wire wheel to one of my impact sockets one day. Etching is still perfectly visible even after the socket is bare metal. Unless you wrap emery cloth around your sockets in use the etching isn't going to wear off.

KamiCrit · Aug 14, 2014

Ruger_556 said:
Aren't the sockets in your avatar etched?

I think those are stamped with the indentations painted white.

firebox40dash5 · Aug 14, 2014

Fedwrench said:
Unlike the high vis markings Matco uses that leave a legible shadow long after the red or blue marking is gone, the gold laser etching will evaporate completely but, it takes years of daily cuda baths, constant exposure to brake clean and other solvents, and lots of rolling across shop floors and other abrasives contact. In short, I wouldn't worry about it.

I've done it to a few of my Craftsman chromes in 1 or 2 uses, in ****** spots where they're rubbing on something. My boss has the same sockets, and after <5 years, you can't read a damn bit of the etching. It's not exactly a Herculean task to wear it off. :lol:

But, they are dual marked, so WGAF. I bought them to work once in a while, when I'm not using an impact socket, not to look pretty.

hautpot · Mar 13, 2016

I would like to bump this to type out my frustration that Snap-on does laser etching on some of their more uncommon tools like Crowsfoot, spline torque adapters, etc.

Stamping tools has always been a tradition for Snap-On on their main line of tools. When I buy the iconic flare crowsfoot; I want it STAMPED, just like they have been doing it for decades in Elizabethton, Tennessee. Not this recent laser ********.

B_Bimmer · Mar 13, 2016

hautpot said:
I would like to bump this to type out my frustration that Snap-on does laser etching on some of their more uncommon tools like Crowsfoot, spline torque adapters, etc.

Stamping tools has always been a tradition for Snap-On on their main line of tools. When I buy the iconic flare crowsfoot; I want it STAMPED, just like they have been doing it for decades in Elizabethton, Tennessee. Not this recent laser ********.

I agree with your bump and extend it to many great plier brands as well.

Fedwrench · Mar 13, 2016

hautpot said:
I would like to bump this to type out my frustration that Snap-on does laser etching on some of their more uncommon tools like Crowsfoot, spline torque adapters, etc.

Stamping tools has always been a tradition for Snap-On on their main line of tools. When I buy the iconic flare crowsfoot; I want it STAMPED, just like they have been doing it for decades in Elizabethton, Tennessee. Not this recent laser ********.

Even the big guys of the tool world have to cut costs :lol:

I agree though. :beer:

hautpot · Mar 13, 2016

And lastly, Snap-On laser marked half the markings and the other half stamped. Who DOES this! Why not just do the whole torque wrench stamped or completely laser? (Torque wrench mfg. date is 2014)

Blurry pics, but whoever made Snap-on bits (zephyr or whatever vendor) also did laser. I believe these are recent bits.

Askme42 · Mar 13, 2016

Fedwrench said:
Even the big guys of the tool world have to cut costs
I agree though.

I'm curious how much of a cost thing is it?

Stamped or laser etched? I would think stamping would be quicker.

GSMotorrad · Mar 13, 2016

Craftsman (Armstrong) made the laser-only etched sockets only for a short while. Once they realized it was a mistake, I exchanged (no hassle) all my laser-only sockets in for dual-marked . . . all except two. They didn't have the 8mm and 9mm in dual-markings, so I had to keep those. I don't think the Craftsmans are built by Armstrong anymore, because I think they're built in China, so I won't be trading mine in ever again. I'd rather buy a new Taiwan socket, than trade my American Armstrong (Craftsman) for a China one. I learned a valuable lesson that "lifetime warranty" doesn't mean much if they're going to switch to the least expensive manufacturing.

hautpot · Mar 13, 2016

Initial cost to get a laser machine running is expensive, but over time it will surpass stamping.

Because you have to physically make a roll stamp for each socket. Let us say the set is a 15 piece set, that means you have to keep inventory of 15 stamps and back ups. Then you have to have tool and die maker craft the stamps.

For the Laser you just upload the program that contains the size and it will do the rest.

drink · Mar 14, 2016

Askme42 said:
Ok so I have the armstrong flex ratchets and had pretty much made up my mind that armstrong socket sets was the way I was going to go. Now I'm concerned that all the socket sized are laser etched and not stamped in. I expect these tools to last many years and if in a few years the laser etching will be gone and I can't tell what size they are what's the point?

Just wondering if some people have any experience with laser etched sockets and how do they hold up?

Opinions are like rear ends; everybody's got one. I own some Armstrong tools and I don't have a problem with any of them so far. A while back I tried discussing different types of sockets and tool a few pictures of Armstrong sockets next to Craftsman. They look like they are machined pretty much the same but from what I understand the difference is supposed to be the type of steel they are made of and Armstrong meets or exceeds specs. From what I understand Craftsman USA was not made per spec and neither is the offshore Craftsman.

You will have to examine the photos closely to notice the 24mm stamping on the 24mm socket. The double detents are shown on the bottom. Personally I don't have a problem with the double detent and I always use my tools with matching brand names. However, I should be able to use the other brands of these double detent sockets with the same mfg's ratchets because they are made the same. I am still not clear on the problem some face with the double detents but I am guessing they might be using a different brand ratchet (Snap-On?) with the sockets and they must not lock together properly (FedWrench will likely have some words for this).

oldschoolcraft · Jan 15, 2018

Dumb question but how can you tell if it's laser or stamped? I have an old craftsman set and I would have thought it was lasered, based on laser = cheap, but the markings are engraved into the metal.

Does laser mean there's no engraving into the actual metal? And if there's depth cut into the metal, then it's stamped?

kythri · Jan 15, 2018

Laser-etching looks like large painted-on information on the side. The pictures in post #4 above show laser-etching.

Stamping is deep information that looks "engraved" at the base of the socket. Post #20, immediately above yours, shows stamping at the drive-end of the sockets.

M_George · Jan 15, 2018

Sounds like they need to etch them deeper. Anyway, I like the large numbers on the etched sockets. My eyes aren't what they were years ago and I don't have to hold the etched ones up to the light to read them.

seber · Jan 15, 2018

For production tooling I always specified .003" deep minimum. Anything less was soon worn off. How deep is your laser etch?

Mr Ratchet · Jan 15, 2018

All of Armstrong sockets that I have, have the dual marking. I don't have any etching worn off yet on any of my sockets.

The double detents work just fine on my Snap-On ratchets and breaker bars.

BDT/NWMN · Jan 15, 2018

drink said:
The double detents are shown on the bottom. Personally I don't have a problem with the double detent and I always use my tools with matching brand names. However, I should be able to use the other brands of these double detent sockets with the same mfg's ratchets because they are made the same. I am still not clear on the problem some face with the double detents but I am guessing they might be using a different brand ratchet (Snap-On?) with the sockets and they must not lock together properly (FedWrench will likely have some words for this).

The double detent will lock up a SnapOn wobble extension so it will not wobble when the detent ball is in the inner notch. Attempting to use the outer notch can be a lost cause when pushing the socket onto a fastener, as the detent ball will often slip into the inner detent notch first.

Might be an old thread, but anyone thinking about purchasing sockets with the """Apex double detent""" may appreciate knowing they are non-compatible with various other brands.

Ji m · Jan 15, 2018

old thread,

but I remember getting Snap On side cutters (electrical pliers) off the truck about 15 years ago
the pliers are still in great shape,
but the "Snap On" laser etching on the face of them was gone in the first year.

If you didn't know what Snap On linesman pliers looked like you'd never know who made the things.

M_George · Jan 15, 2018

Ji m said:
old thread,

but I remember getting Snap On side cutters (electrical pliers) off the truck about 15 years ago
the pliers are still in great shape,
but the "Snap On" laser etching on the face of them was gone in the first year.

If you didn't know what Snap On linesman pliers looked like you'd never know who made the things.

Show us a pick so we will recognize them at the local flea market.

Odes · Jan 15, 2018

I've got mastercraft sockets that are laser etched I hate them so common sizer a faded and most of the it's hard to read the size

bob15 · Jan 15, 2018

Odes said:
I've got mastercraft sockets that are laser etched I hate them so common sizer a faded and most of the it's hard to read the size

If push came to shove, buy an engraver and engrave the size on it. Not pretty, but it is effective and will work.

Odes · Jan 15, 2018

I've just started upgrading my sockets with mostly proto and sk I find they have a better fit that mastercraft anyway

Mr Ratchet · Jan 15, 2018

Every brand of wobble extensions that I have "Lock Up" when pushed all the way into the drive, double detent or not. To my knowledge that's part of the design. My extensions all take quite a bit of pressure to move out of the first set of detents into the second set.

6PTsocket · Jan 15, 2018

If you go cheap like I did, my Horrible Freight 21mm deep that fits the lug nuts on my suv has the etched size totally rubbed off. In this set they just outlined the numbers so there wasn't much to start with. I wrapped the socket with a P-touch label that says 21 several times, so it is easy to read. Crude,I know but amazingly it has stood up very well and is easily replaced. I am no fan of etched sockets that are not stamped.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Tonyuk · Jan 16, 2018

I actually prefer etching, usually far easier to see what size the socket is.

If it wears off i take a cheap engraver and mark it in the side of the socket.

BDT/NWMN · Jan 16, 2018

Mr Ratchet said:
Every brand of wobble extensions that I have "Lock Up" when pushed all the way into the drive, double detent or not. To my knowledge that's part of the design. My extensions all take quite a bit of pressure to move out of the first set of detents into the second set.

On My SnapOn wobble extensions; a SnapOn socket will remain unlocked unless the extension is pushed in and held. The detent ball will recenter the extension in the correct position if and when this occurs, but will not remain locked in the straight position.

The thing I don't like about the double detent is having a wobble extension lock when pushing a socket onto a fastener in a difficult to reach place.. The wobble extension can lock up. When attempting to pull the wobble extension out enough to unlock it, that dern socket is lifting off of the fastener..

I bought The SnapOn tools to tackle the more complex jobs that other workers often shy away from. I also have many sets of Craftsman sockets with double detents that I use on a regular basis. I bought some tools for the design and quality, and others for their low price; HF impact sockets are an exception to My usual USA choices of ProTo, SnapOn, SK, and others... I enjoy making use of, and trying various combinations of tools. There can be enough difference to make a "difference" on a particular application.

Flatheadpopup · Jan 16, 2018

M_George said:
Sounds like they need to etch them deeper. Anyway, I like the large numbers on the etched sockets. My eyes aren't what they were years ago and I don't have to hold the etched ones up to the light to read them.

My eyes aren't the greatest either. That said, I like the stamping on the current Proto line of sockets. They are much easier to read than any of my other stamped sockets (SK, Williams and craftsman).

slackdaddy1 · Jan 16, 2018

Depends on the power and speed of the laser etching, a powerful laser on a low-med speed AINT gonna wear off.

MaverickDMD · Jan 16, 2018

GearWrench seems to have solved this problem - nice big numerals engraved on their sockets, big enough for anyone over 50 to see. I think it leaves a bad taste in the buyer's mouth when sockets by the bigger names are laser etched. Everyone knows what's going on here and it chaps my *** to pay top dollar for a cut corner.

Mr Ratchet · Jan 16, 2018

BDT/NWMN said:
On My SnapOn wobble extensions; a SnapOn socket will remain unlocked unless the extension is pushed in and held. The detent ball will recenter the extension in the correct position if and when this occurs, but will not remain locked in the straight position.

The thing I don't like about the double detent is having a wobble extension lock when pushing a socket onto a fastener in a difficult to reach place.. The wobble extension can lock up. When attempting to pull the wobble extension out enough to unlock it, that dern socket is lifting off of the fastener..

I bought The SnapOn tools to tackle the more complex jobs that other workers often shy away from. I also have many sets of Craftsman sockets with double detents that I use on a regular basis. I bought some tools for the design and quality, and others for their low price; HF impact sockets are an exception to My usual USA choices of ProTo, SnapOn, SK, and others... I enjoy making use of, and trying various combinations of tools. There can be enough difference to make a "difference" on a particular application.

Just tested all of my extensions on both double dentent and single detent sockets. None popped back once pushed all the way in. My wobbles are from Craftsman, Kolbalt (Stanley), Prote, and SK. My SO normal extension worked the same with out any issues.
I put a double detent socket on my mail scale with the wobble in the first detent. It took about 3lbs 10oz to 3lbs 8oz to get into the second detent on all of my 1/4" wobbles. The 3/8" took closer to 8lbs.

I wonder if you have a weak ball spring on your extension. I can't even come close to duplicating what you are describing. Although I only have a SO in a standard extension that would be close. Maybe someone else can chime in who has SO wobble extensions.

BDT/NWMN · Jan 16, 2018

Mr Ratchet said:
Just tested all of my extensions on both double dentent and single detent sockets. None popped back once pushed all the way in. My wobbles are from Craftsman, Kolbalt (Stanley), Prote, and SK. My SO normal extension worked the same with out any issues.
I put a double detent socket on my mail scale with the wobble in the first detent. It took about 3lbs 10oz to 3lbs 8oz to get into the second detent on all of my 1/4" wobbles. The 3/8" took closer to 8lbs.

I wonder if you have a weak ball spring on your extension. I can't even come close to duplicating what you are describing. Although I only have a SO in a standard extension that would be close. Maybe someone else can chime in who has SO wobble extensions.

My wobble extensions are SnapOn, and three of them are only a few years old. The detent balls are held firm by the springs. They work great with SnapOn sockets.

Laser etched sockets

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