Rookie finally laying porcelain tile in my single

Well I finally got started on this. I can't believe I started the research over 2 years ago! (http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159133) I wanted to keep a log of my garage progress as I go, even if it is very slow progress, so this thread should serve as a way of tracking my flooring progress.

I had my wife take our son out for the afternoon and made my first attempt at laying tile. First impressions... this is a lot harder and MESSIER then I anticipated. I spent almost as much time on cleanup as I did laying the first few rows, but I learned a lot, and improved a fair bit in that time as well.

I started with a scrubbed (dishsoap & pushbroom a few weeks ago) and swept concrete floor. No major stains or cracks, so I'm not going to grind or seal. Just get right down to business.



I have had the tiles for over a year, and I decided to go premium on the thinset, thanks largely to advice from Dakota00. I picked up enough Kerabond and Kerelastic to do the job, assuming I get more efficient and cut down on waste. This should be good for the Canadian winters the floor will see.



I wanted a nice ramp to transition the lip at the front, and I chose the Reno Ramp from Schluter (http://www.schluter.com/1_2_reno_ramp.aspx). I figured while I'm doing this, I might as well try for an interesting pattern, so I chose a standard half offset. I did a quick spacing test to see what I was in for, and it seems that I was very lucky. The garage is almost exactly the right width for 9 tiles (with 3/16 spacers) without cutting. I'll have to do a bit of chiseling or grinding where the pour got messy in places, but I might get away with full tiles on every other row.



I mixed up the K/K as per instructions, let it slake, mixed again, and dove in. I didn't take any pics during the actual laying process, I was far too filthy to touch my phone. But here's as far as I got. The Reno Ramp was a trial by fire to start with. Trying to fill a flexible 8 foot piece of aluminum with thinset, having never worked with a large trowel before was... interesting. I managed to get it as close to filled as I could, put down some thinset on the floor, and slapped the Reno Ramp down. "Hmmm, there sure is a lot of material squishing out... D'OH! I forgot to comb it out with the notched side." There was a lot of wasted material and mess here. Good, I'm already into the mistakes. Onward we go.

After cleaning up the front lip and the surface of the ramp the best I could, I started laying tiles. I think my thinset was mixed about right (I did a half batch) and I tried to pry up a tile or two which was HARD. I seemed to be getting good contact. I back buttered each tile, which was also very very messy at the start. As I went on, I learned to use less material and how to clean the edges better. One row down, and I was cleaning a lot of thinset off the tops of the tiles. And the ramp again. And my hands, arms, the floor, and anything within about 10 feet of me. Row 2 got a little better, and row 3 got even better (or at least faster and cleaner). At the point I was almost done my pail of thinset, my wife and son got home, so I decided not to push too hard on the first day. I cleaned everything up... again. The tiles, the ramp, myself, the floor, my tools. This K/K is some sticky stuff. I still have some on my hands and arms, actually. Here's as far as I got on Day 1.







I'm still picking thinset off my hands 2 days later, my legs and knees are killing me, and I made virtually no real progress, but I STARTED dammit. And I did it myself. I don't think it turned out too badly, at least it looks clean and straight. I have a few tiles that left a bit of a lip, but nothing too bad. We'll see how well they hold up when I eventually drive the car in. And I'll just hope that I can maintain the proper slope so everything drains out.

It was an eye opener, and a big time learning experience, but I can see it starting to take shape, and that makes me happy. I have to say thanks to a few GJ members who I couldn't have started without. Dakota00 has been a wealth of knowledge and always generous with his time. The assistance and inspiration from slickgt1, Jack Olsen, and SapesOfIndia was also much appreciated, as well as from the rest of the GJ community at large. Thanks to all of you for being such an amazing resource. Also, I will blame you all collectively if my floor doesn't come out perfectly.

*** NOTE for those who want to skip ahead, the finished floor is on PAGE 9. ***

A very great start, Boss! I really like your running bond pattern. You'll be like Greg and enjoying that space in no time.

I've done a couple dozen tile jobs over the years and can offer this one bit of advice: when you get tired, STOP, or you'll screw up royally!!!

Thanks Marty! Running bond, I KNEW there was a correct term for that pattern, I just couldn't remember it. I think it adds a little more visual pop, and it really isn't that much more difficult to do. I hope my joints will be pretty straight by the time I get to the end, although nobody's going to get down on their knees with a ruler to check except maybe me.

OJ Bartley said:

Thanks Marty! Running bond, I KNEW there was a correct term for that pattern, I just couldn't remember it. I think it adds a little more visual pop, and it really isn't that much more difficult to do. I hope my joints will be pretty straight by the time I get to the end, although nobody's going to get down on their knees with a ruler to check except maybe me.

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I find it easier offsetting the tiles than lining them all up.
This way if you are a little bit out it is harder to see it.

Great work and keep us informed!

Looking good OJ ! You will be done before you know it and enjoying it. Something is just not right about your tile laying technique though. I thought every tile after it was laid, was supposed to have mortarized finger and foot prints all over it.

OJ, the best part is still yet to come. What looks OK to you now will look GREAT to you once you grout it. It's just like icing a cake!

OJ, good job man!! Take your time, don't rush it. You're working very clean (joints and tiles surface) which is great to see. This will save you a ton of time when it comes time to grout. As you have noticed the K/K is hell to remove once it's dry.

One piece of advice, cut the garage door tracks about an 1" or so off the bottom. So you can slide the piece of tile under the track as one piece.

Keep posting pics!!

Odd starting point. Looks really out of place. Would have been to do that row in a dark color or just begin and at the threshold.

Looks great! Can't wait to see it done!

Nothing like trying to figure out how to do something and then at the end of the project you can say - I did this. Looks good.

bruincup

Thanks for the comments and encouragement, everyone. I hope to be back at it this weekend for some more progress.

gregtwojeeps said:

Something is just not right about your tile laying technique though. I thought every tile after it was laid, was supposed to have mortarized finger and foot prints all over it.

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Oh don't worry... it was all over the place. I wish I had taken a picture of my cleanup pile. About half a roll of shop towels and a bunch of scraps of cardboard.

Dakota00 said:

OJ, good job man!! Take your time, don't rush it. You're working very clean (joints and tiles surface) which is great to see. This will save you a ton of time when it comes time to grout. As you have noticed the K/K is hell to remove once it's dry.

One piece of advice, cut the garage door tracks about an 1" or so off the bottom. So you can slide the piece of tile under the track as one piece.

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Thanks Dakota! I wouldn't be here without your help. I work real messy, I just do a good cleanup after. I'll have to remember to clean out the grout joints next time around, there are a few that are nearly full I think.

I'm not sure if I can cut the tracks down there without losing a lot of support, but I'll look into it. I was thinking about either cutting a slot into the piece of tile that would fit there, and sliding it into place, or just building around it with small pieces and filling in to level with grout. I'll take a closer pic.

PT Doc said:

Odd starting point. Looks really out of place. Would have been to do that row in a dark color or just begin and at the threshold.

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PT Doc, you mean to begin inside the garage door and leave the rest of the lip outside bare concrete? To me that would look out of place. I wanted the floor to be seamless over the whole slab. I don't mind that the tile is visible outside, in fact a neighbor has already commented that it looks great. I chose to start a full row of tiles from the transition ramp for some good solid structure behind it.

Dakota, I took a look at the tracks and I can definitely cut them shorter, and I will. I thought I remembered them being attached directly, but they're about 1/8" off the floor. I've got a few pics I'll put up in the morning, along with a couple of questions.

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I hope it turns out good for you, it seems that you have more confidence in yourself than I have in myself. If it were me I wouldn't have even tried to do it. Getting the tile straight and level is not the easiest thing to do and at my age (65 years young) I am just not up to the task.

Thanks James. My confidence may have gotten me into a bit of a mess, but I think I can make it out OK... I hope. You're right, it is much harder than it looks to keep the tiles lined up with proper spacing, AND keep them level, AND follow the slope of the floor, etc.

It looks like for the first few rows I'll have enough clearance to put down full tiles to the edge. I'm just not quite sure how to finish the last little lumpy area. Should I just seal with the thinset and grout over? It should be anywhere from 1/8" to maybe 1/2", all irregular and bumpy. This should give you a better picture...





Just for kicks, here's a closer shot of the ramp at the lip, doesn't really show the profile too well, but it seems to have turned out OK.



EDIT: Oops, I forgot my other question. I was planning to paint the concrete portion of the walls, but could I use the thinset as a skim coat to smooth out any areas that need it, and then safely paint over it, or am I better off just leaving it alone and painting the concrete?

Fill with thinset and grout to match the edges. You can skim-coat with thinset if the cement is clean. Not sure if grout would work as well.

Still looking good. I like the lip ramp.

OJ Bartley said:

It looks like for the first few rows I'll have enough clearance to put down full tiles to the edge. I'm just not quite sure how to finish the last little lumpy area. Should I just seal with the thinset and grout over? It should be anywhere from 1/8" to maybe 1/2", all irregular and bumpy. This should give you a better picture...

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I would suggest removing the rough concrete with a hammer and chisel or cut flush using a 4" grinder. Then fill with thinset and grout over.

Thanks Jim! And thanks Dakota... I think that's my plan. Some of the pieces came away pretty easily with a few taps when I tested, so I'll start out by chipping off most of the excess.

Any ideal ratio of thinset to grout for the spots that will need to be built up a little? Am I better off building up the thinset and then topping off with grout, or keeping the thinset minimal and building most of the height with grout? (I'm planning on Ultracolor Plus if that matters)

^^^ If you're using Ultracolor Plus (excellent choice) don't worry about putting thinset in the gap to build it up. As long as the thinset is below the tiles set height fill the rest with grout.

Thanks Dakota, that sounds like a plan.

I've been thinking about what to do around the door frame, and so far my plan is to cut the door track and the one piece of trim (the one that seals the front edge of the door) down to squeeze a tile underneath. That will leave me with a vaguely C shaped area to be covered. Like this:



Can I cut porcelain with a 4 1/2" angle grinder and the appropriate disc? I noticed a couple of diamond blade/discs that said "for ceramic tile" but I wasn't sure what would be best for porcelain. Is this just more trouble than it's worth, and I should shut up and mosaic the area with small chunks of tile? I've seen conflicting advice for continuous rim vs. segmented diamond blades. Segmented seems more likely to chip, but may be the technically correct one to use. Also something called a "turbo" blade...?

OJ Bartley said:

EDIT: Oops, I forgot my other question. I was planning to paint the concrete portion of the walls, but could I use the thinset as a skim coat to smooth out any areas that need it, and then safely paint over it, or am I better off just leaving it alone and painting the concrete?

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Have you considered tiling it instead? Half tiles all around would make a nice waterproof basing.

Niiiice. You finally got to it.

If you try to cut with grinder. I highly recommend you duct tape your shop var hose by your work area. Cutting tile dry, will be a **** load of dust. Like a **** load. But that is how I did most of my complex cuts, especially circles.

As far as the walls, and you wanting to paint them. How about you get some slat wall, and just mount it on the walls. Or sheetrock. Slat wall is cheap, and gives you extremely flexible storage options.

DeadSock, thanks... that's a good idea! I considered tiling the full concrete area, but thought it would be too much work and might look funny (I've seen it said that it also makes the garage look smaller). I like the single row half tile idea though, I might just do that.

Slick, thanks for stopping by! I actually have some slatwall for the upper areas. I'm debating sticking with pegboard for the workbench wall and using the slatwall on the sides. Pegboard just seems to have so many more options for holders and things. The lower foot or so of the walls is exposed concrete, and that's what I was considering what to do with.

I think I might try DeadSock's suggestion and put a row of half tiles along the floor, then paint the rest, if I can figure out how to cap it nicely.

Same place you got your Schluter edge at garage door will have the end cap for the 1/2 tiles. That's how I did mine.

OJ Bartley said:

Can I cut porcelain with a 4 1/2" angle grinder and the appropriate disc? I noticed a couple of diamond blade/discs that said "for ceramic tile" but I wasn't sure what would be best for porcelain. Is this just more trouble than it's worth, and I should shut up and mosaic the area with small chunks of tile? I've seen conflicting advice for continuous rim vs. segmented diamond blades. Segmented seems more likely to chip, but may be the technically correct one to use. Also something called a "turbo" blade...?

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For cutting porcelain I use a turbo blade for the best results. To minimize chipping I use masking tape on my cut lines. Cut the "c" shaped piece for around the garage door frame, it'll look better. When using your angle grinder do the cutting outside on the driveway away from your work area!

...and with that angle grinder, cut on the bottom side of your tile so that you can 'sneak up' to the line marked on the top, thus avoiding any runaway visible cuts. And definitely cut your door track and door trim/facing at the base (the height of the tile plus the thinset) in order for the tile to slip beneath nicely.

Keep us posted on your great work!

I wouldn't grout that outside edge, I have a feeling it's going to crack. I would use a flexible filler.

What are the expectations during the winter with freezing outdoor temps and non freezing garage temps.?

Looks good OJ. Lots of info on cutting tiles on YouTube.
Running half tiles on the wall is easier than messing with patching the walls I think.
Maybe go with a different colour?

Thanks for the kind words and tips everyone. Looking at it again in the light today, the wall is a bit of a mess, and might be too much work to try a row of reasonable looking half tile. I might just paint it with some exterior paint as-is.

ishiboo said:

I wouldn't grout that outside edge, I have a feeling it's going to crack. I would use a flexible filler.

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I don't have much experience with tile or grout, but if Dakota gives the OK, I trust that it will hold up.

PT Doc said:

What are the expectations during the winter with freezing outdoor temps and non freezing garage temps.?

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Since I used the Kerabond / Kerelastic modified thinset, it should have no problems with freezing temps. That's why I broke the bank and shelled out for it.

I got a little more work done today. Spent some time with a hammer and chisel on the floor-wall joint to see how it will clean up. Not too bad, and I can do some final with the angle grinder and a masonry wheel.



Then I mixed up the other half batch of thinset and slapped down some tile. I have definitely gotten better at it since I started, but I am still FAR from being a pro. There will be a few slight lips between tiles on the final floor, but nothing that concerns me so far. I did lift up and reset one tile at the end that had a bit too much height difference for me.

Looking good! Your lines are fine!

OJ, how's the floor coming?

Ramp looks very nice, tile too obviously

Should be finished by now anxious to see the end result!

Ah, the gentle prodding. Part of the reason I wanted to post in the first place... if the internet can't keep me on task, who can? Who, I ask!?

I have had one solid nearly full day to myself to work, and I managed to get quite a bit done. I have to pause here for a moment to express my admiration for you guys who do this every day. My knees and legs are killing me. Here are a couple of progress shots throughout yesterday.



Things continue to get a little smoother as I work and learn. I think the biggest thing I learned this time, was that I had been much too generous with the back buttering up until I reached about the halfway point. I wasn't really sure how much to scrape off, so I tried to leave some on each tile... when I realized my materials were coming up a fair bit short in terms of coverage, I got a lot more aggressive in what I was taking off. Things seemed to work really well after that, and I hope I'm still on track for a good solid floor.



By the end of the day I had gone as far as I could without moving the tires and tablesaw that I didn't think I was going to reach. I had nearly tiled myself into a corner anyway, so I called it a day. I can probably get the rest of the full tiles done in a couple of hours. That will leave me with the edge cleanup... chiseling, grinding (a little) and then cutting the tiles to fit as needed. I hope that can be another 2 afternoon sessions at most. We'll see. A neighbor lent me his tile cutter (I have never used one before) so I might try to measure and cut all the tiles first in one go, then lay them in place in another session.

Unfortunately at the end of my long day I was too tired, and excited to spend some time with my son to do much cleanup. I have a bit of a nasty thinset mess in places. The chunks scrape off pretty neatly, but many places where it has been smeared leave a streak when I try to scrape it off. I read something about using sugar water to help remove it, is that a real thing??

I'm happy with how things are going so far. Most of my lines are quite good, and my grout joints are pretty uniform. I will say I MUCH prefer the round plastic disc type spacers over the simple "+" shaped ones. I get a lot straighter results using them, but I ran out and had to switch over at some point. I have more than a few places where there's a noticeable lip between the tiles, but I don't think it will be too bad after grouting. I'll still hope for the best. Thanks for the encouragement, as always!

Way to go OJ !

On the thinset smears getting on your tiles. ....

If you will recall how clean I left my tiles, (see my pics in my "Dampen the tile ?" thread) here is a tip.. Get yourself a window scraper that uses the single edge razor blade that locks in place. Take a sponge and wet it (not sloppy wet, just wet) and wet down the thinset smears. Let the moisture wick in to the thinset a few seconds and then while keeping the scraper at a low angle, just scrape the thinset off. ...

Go ahead of yourself and wet down the smears and let them be soaking in a bit while scraping the previously wetted smears. Be sure to get the thin- thinset smears on the edges of the tiles before you grout. if not, they show up as dark lines on that light colored tile after your done. Ask me how I know this. Good luck !

Thanks Greg, I'll do that! I hope it still works with this beastly-tough modified thinset that Dakota recommended. It's sticky stuff! At the end of the day I'm glad that's what will be holding my floor together.

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I though about putting tile down instead of expoy. are you concern about using jacks/jack stands/etc in the garage?

I jacked up the whole front end of my 03 Jeep GC with a 3 ton floor jack yesterday and then put the front axles down on HF $29.00 jack stands. I was too lazy to move the car to even get the jack's back wheels out of my newly (about 3 weeks old) laid porcelain tile mortar joint they were sitting in, when I jacked it up. No damage to anything.

Yeah, I've seen quite a few people posting pics of their cars and trucks jacked up on tile. To be honest my garage is probably too small to do much that would need the car to be lifted anyway. But no worries here on the durability.

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Thanks, I was doing some searching last nice about VCT and tile in general being used as garage flooring but concern of course is working in the garage.