Toptul

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

Hello Folks,

I'm beginning to import a VERY LIMITED number of TOPTUL tools. Primarily I'm doing this to keep busy in retirement. It's more of a pastime than a business. What I've got is up on EBay. Simply search on TOPTUL. I can't answer specific requests for tools as I can't buy 10 of something (which normally I have to do) to sell you one and have nine unsold. However, if I've got something you want that's on EBay then make a bid. As time goes by I'll be increasing my selection. I've got a new shipment arriving at the end of October that will include several TOPTUL screwdrivers which can compete against anybody's including Wiha's. TOPTUL makes great tools and I'm certainly pricing them right.

One of the things that I'm trying to do is avoid competing with Harbor Freight by NOT selling stuff you can easily buy from them at 1/3 the cost. An example of this would be socket sets. Also, if you've ever bought a socket set at Harbor Freight you know that the Asians, including TOPTUL, have never heard of 15 and 18 mm sockets or wrenches which are the size bolts that hold together every GM car made in the last 15 years. Most of their socket sets skip these sizes which to me makes them useless. TOPTUL has great 1/2" and 1/4" socket wrench sets but very little in 3/8" drive which is dominate in the American market. So it's almost certain I will not be selling TOPTUL socket sets.

However, TOPTUL makes a lot of unique stuff such as Angle Socket Wrenches and offset combination wrenches (which in my opinion are the only way to go) and this is where I'm going to concentrate. Their 75 degree offset box wrenches are great and I'm selling a set of these on EBay right now. By the middle of November I'll have most of the new stuff arriving in my second shipment up on EBay greatly increasing what I currently have on offer.

One of the things I'm struggling with is what is it that people want to buy. If you have TOPTUL part numbers that you think would sell let me know and why you think they would sell and I'll think about it, but, I'm promising nothing with respect to stocking it.

TOPTUL's flare nut wrenches are fantastic and I'll have complete metric sets of these available once my second shipment arrives. As a note I'm not doing any SAE wrenches - it's time for the world to realize that the metric system has arrived. I'm 62 so I know that change is hard to swallow but the world does move on. Get over it.

wornoutoldman · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
As a note I'm not doing any SAE wrenches - it's time for the world to realize that the metric system has arrived. I'm 62 so I know that change is hard to swallow but the world does move on. Get over it.

You'd be surprised how many people and industries still use SAE tools. What's that old saying about cutting off your nose?

Mike007 · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
Hello Folks,

As a note I'm not doing any SAE wrenches - it's time for the world to realize that the metric system has arrived. I'm 62 so I know that change is hard to swallow but the world does move on. Get over it.

I would think the use of metric vs SAE fasteners is determined by the manufacturers rather then the mechanics buying your tools.

Bull · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
Hello Folks,
As a note I'm not doing any SAE wrenches - it's time for the world to realize that the metric system has arrived. I'm 62 so I know that change is hard to swallow but the world does move on. Get over it.

Lots of folks work on old American cars as a hobby or as part of their business.

While switching to metric might simplify things moving forward, we aren't going to change the fastener selection on cars that have already rolled off the assembly line.

Brownsfan · Oct 14, 2014

At my work we get hitches and 5th wheels as well as step bars with sae fasteners all the time. So i still.use them once in a while when not under dashes doing electrical

John in OH · Oct 14, 2014

It's certainly your business and you can do what you want, but ....

NOT A SINGLE ONE of my farm implements has metric fasteners. Nor, do any of my antique tractors or my 1972 GMC pickup. And before I retired, I'll bet that not more than a dozen pieces of equipment in my 2,500MW generating plant had metric fasteners.

While I agree that the future is metric, I'd guess that most pieces of US-built equipment and machines (excluding cars) built prior to 1995 have SAE fasteners.

knobby · Oct 14, 2014

They make some nice t handles with a swivel socket attached been looking for the smaller Asian vehicle set eg. 8mm 10mm 12mm 14mm
No doubt I'm the only person looking for these tho

These http://www.toptul.com/en/2_2179_58112/product/Ball_Swivel_Socket_Sliding_T_Handle_id325532.html

Steinmetz · Oct 14, 2014

John in OH said:
It's certainly your business and you can do what you want, but ....

NOT A SINGLE ONE of my farm implements has metric fasteners. Nor, do any of my antique tractors or my 1972 GMC pickup. And before I retired, I'll bet that not more than a dozen pieces of equipment in my 2,500MW generating plant had metric fasteners.

While I agree that the future is metric, I'd guess that most pieces of US-built equipment and machines (excluding cars) built prior to 1995 have SAE fasteners.

"…2,500 MW generating plant…? Really? Did the NRC license this?

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

Knobby, I have the 10 and 13mm versions of these on Ebay now with 8, 12 and 14mm on the way.

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

It's a matter of quantity with respect to the SAE. If I buy 10 sets of metric and American wrenches I'm going to sell ten of the metric before I sell 3 of the SAE. As I mentioned this is a hobby for me and I've got to be very judicious as to what I buy since I don't want to be stuck with them. My personal cars are all metric what am I going to do with SAE wrenches. I'll have what I have. If it coincides to what you want that will be great but I'm certainly not trying to be all things to all people.

PBCampbell · Oct 14, 2014

Steinmetz said:
"…2,500 MW generating plant…? Really? Did the NRC license this?

NRC as in Nuclear Regulatory Commission? What makes you think it's Nuclear? The coal fired plant near me in a rather low population area is stated as being 2,000 MW.

knobby · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
Knobby, I have the 10 and 13mm versions of these on Ebay now with 8, 12 and 14mm on the way.

excellent

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

Knobby's request is a perfect example of what I'm trying to do as a general philosophy with TOPTUL. The tools he is inquiring about are superb and unavailable in the United States. These are the types of tools I wish to carry. A standard socket set or wrench doesn't interest me. Personally I love angle socket wrenches but they are never seen in America. So I decided to carry them because I know they're neat and I want others to be able to get them. The double offset box wrenches we have in America are typically 45 degree and not 75 degree. I chose to carry the 75 degree.

The story of David and Goliath is a nice fable. However, David got in an extremely lucky shot. 99.9999% of the time Goliath steps on David and that's that. I have no interest in competing against Goliath (which at this time October, 2014 in the USA is Harbor Freight) Selling standard socket sets and combination wrenches against these guys is a no win proposition, besides that it bores me. This is my hobby, I don't want my hobby to bore me. I want to sell the cool stuff they don't have. For example the interchangeable head torque wrench I have up on EBay is great and you'll seldom if ever see such a tool in America. That's what I like about it. It's not average.

John in OH · Oct 14, 2014

Steinmetz said:
"…2,500 MW generating plant…? Really? Did the NRC license this?

You misunderstood ... I "retired" from that plant ... WH Sammis Plant in Toronto, OH. First units in built in late 1950's with the last unit built in late 1970's. Lots of tools purchased each year for maintenance.

flyingtpot · Oct 14, 2014

Harbor Freight is far from being a Goliath.

So you're a vendor with lots of free advertising in this thread with your retirement business. What special discount are you giving to Garage Journal subscribers?

Steinmetz · Oct 14, 2014

John in OH said:
You misunderstood ... I "retired" from that plant ... WH Sammis Plant in Toronto, OH. First units in built in late 1950's with the last unit built in late 1970's. Lots of tools purchased each year for maintenance.

Understood. In my case, "my" generating plant would be the Bonneville Power Administration.

JDSV · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt,

I know you said you would not do socket sets. But it just so happens I am looking into 1/4" sockets sets from USA, German, Japanese, and Taiwanese manufacturers, and TOPTUL was on my list. I just could not find any online dealers to see what the set I was looking at goes for.

I am specifically looking at GCAD1702. While I know you may not stock the item at all would you be able to estimate what that set would cost? I'm more curious than anything. Thank you for your time.

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

Flyingtpot, You're right they are not Goliath they are in fact Godzilla. Here in Phoenix they have basically put every independent tool store out of business, they will soon put Sears out of business. Walk into any of their stores and there will be a line at each check out. If they continue to improve, as they have been doing and as is recently evidenced by their new "professional" flex head ratchets they will become even stronger.

The price I'm starting at on EBay is as low as it's going to get as that's as low as I can go. There will be no discount. I don't care if you buy or if you don't. It's there if you want it, if you don't pass it by. I made my money making semiconductors this I'm doing for fun.

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

JDSV, I have no idea what this would cost as TOPTUL does not publish a price list. The way it works is that you send them a list of items you're considering buying. They then quote that list. Dumbest damn thing I've ever had to deal with in my life but that's the way they do business. Looking at that set in the catalog it looks like somewhere between $30-$50 depending upon how much money the dealer needs to make. Pretty basic set little different than every other 1/4" socket set in the world. What's so special about it?

wild cowboy · Oct 14, 2014

I am much more likely to purchase from an ebay seller who specifies the country of manufacture of each item they sell :thumbup:

and don't assume that made in Taiwan is somehow inferior to made in USA, it's not!

JDSV · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
Looking at that set in the catalog it looks like somewhere between $30-$50 depending upon how much money the dealer needs to make. Pretty basic set little different than every other 1/4" socket set in the world. What's so special about it?

Thanks for giving a ball park figure. I was just curious. There is absolutely nothing special about the set.

I'm looking to get a 1/4" set in the future, 16 -17 pieces, nothing fancy. TOPTUL just happened to be a brand I was considering along with King Tony (as far as Taiwanese tools are concerned). But I may treat myself to some Stahlwille, or Koken, or KTC...or just get a SK or Wright set. I'm just shopping around for now.

Bull · Oct 14, 2014

I have trouble buying from someone who outright says "I don't care if you buy from me or not."

I understand it, but there are people I can give my money to who will enjoy their business relationship with me.

wild cowboy · Oct 14, 2014

I will definitely buy from you if the quality is good and you can beat the other prices online from places like Amazon, etc. - and it can be done, Cripe, Mechanics Tools & Bits, and many small sellers on ebay manage to do it! :thumbup:

creativecars · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt,
I personally would be interested in the boxed in wrench sets... both metric and SAE.
Do the tools have any kind of warranty??

I understand you are retired and this is a fun business, but a business still. Your ebay type customers may be ok with your independence and "You are the boss" attitude, but when you come to GJ you will encounter a different group of tool guys.
Yes my every day vehicles are metric, but I am not about to "get over it" and not work on my old vehicles, equipment or new projects. It is my money and I will buy from a supplier who wants sell a product to me, with as much mutual respect as any business.

Can you supply a good product, at a good price, and stand behind them with a reasonable amount professionalism and customer service?

If you do these things you may do well here, other wise ebay may be your best business plan.

SMKS · Oct 14, 2014

I think the OP needs a slightly different attitude if he's going to be selling things successfully.

For example, don't say this about SAE tools:

I know that change is hard to swallow but the world does move on. Get over it.

That seems unnecessarily confrontational. Why not just say "I'm not offering SAE sets right now, as there's not enough demand at the moment"?

I've sold many things on ebay, so I too know that metric items sell much quicker and more frequently than SAE tools. But you don't have to say it in a way where you're criticizing anyone who wants SAE tools.

Another weird thing:

dnschmidt said:
There will be no discount. I don't care if you buy or if you don't. It's there if you want it, if you don't pass it by.

Why not just say "I'm trying to keep prices as low as I can for everyone, so I can't offer a special Garage Journal discount right now."

I've owned a few Toptul tools in the past, but I doubt I'll be buying any from the OP.

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

It's always going to be EBay. I have no inclination to do a Website or anything approaching a store. Here's how I got into it. I like TOPTUL'S products, I couldn't find any so I bought what I wanted for myself from them. In many cases this required that I buy ten of something that I only needed one or two of. I sell the extras on EBay. That's the way this is always going to work. My attitude is based on this reality. I'm not going to buy SAE wrenches BECAUSE I HAVE NO USE FOR SAE WRENCHES. Does this help you to understand what I'm saying. The tools that I will have on EBay are tools that I myself like and bought for myself. The extras I'll willing to sell at a very good price because I don't need four sets of double offset box wrenches.

creativecars · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
It's always going to be EBay. I have no inclination to do a Website or anything approaching a store. Here's how I got into it. I like TOPTUL'S products, I couldn't find any so I bought what I wanted for myself from them. In many cases this required that I buy ten of something that I only needed one or two of. I sell the left overs on EBay. That's the way this is always going to work. My attitude is based on this reality. I'm not going to buy SAE wrenches BECAUSE I HAVE NO USE FOR SAE WRENCHES.

WOW, You deserve yourself. Good luck ebay troll.

PBCampbell · Oct 14, 2014

I think a few people didn't grasp that you're just doing this as a side project and have no interest in going into deep debt to try and obtain a customer base. I think it boils down to he's selling what he's selling and if the product meets your expectations all is good.

creativecars · Oct 14, 2014

PBCampbell said:
I think a few people didn't grasp that you're just doing this as a side project and have no interest in going into deep debt to try and obtain a customer base. I think it boils down to he's selling what he's selling and if the product meets your expectations all is good.

That is fine, but don't come on here looking for people to sell to, then say you don't care if you have customers. :dunno:

wild cowboy · Oct 14, 2014

dnschmidt said:
There will be no discount.

SMKS said:
Why not just say "I'm trying to keep prices as low as I can for everyone, so I can't offer a special Garage Journal discount right now."

No EXCUSE whatsoever not to offer a 10% Garage Journal discount, because Ebay charges MORE than 10% in fees when you sell something, even if you find a deal on free listing -therefore, you can offer a 10% Garage Journal discount and not cost yourself a DIME in profit!

If there is one thing I know about after over 6000 ebay sales, it's their FEES! :lol_hitti

BJ42LX · Oct 14, 2014

Well, that went downhill fast.

I can see where this is headed.

:lol_hitti

SMKS · Oct 14, 2014

PBCampbell said:
I think a few people didn't grasp that you're just doing this as a side project and have no interest in going into deep debt to try and obtain a customer base. I think it boils down to he's selling what he's selling and if the product meets your expectations all is good.

But I think he needs to convey that message in a way that doesn't drive away many of his potential customers.

He's writing in all caps when all he needs to say is "I'm doing this on the side so I have a limited selection available and that doesn't include SAE tools right now."
But instead he says things like this:

dnschmidt said:
I'm not going to buy SAE wrenches BECAUSE I HAVE NO USE FOR SAE WRENCHES. Does this help you to understand what I'm saying.

wild cowboy said:
No EXCUSE whatsoever not to offer a 10% Garage Journal discount,

I know about ebay fees, too, but it's wrong to say there's" no excuse." If the seller wants to keep it simple and only sell on ebay, that's his choice.

This comment makes you actually sound pretty similar to the OP in this thread.

wild cowboy · Oct 14, 2014

SMKS said:
I know about ebay fees, too, but it's wrong to say "there's no excuse." If the seller wants to keep it simple and only sell on ebay, that's his choice.

This comment makes you actually sound pretty similar to the OP in this thread.

I completely disagree - placing an ad here is MUCH less work than placing an ebay posting, by a longshot, and many of his best customers are already right here and ready to go, if he doesn't keep ******* them off - lol

once you have completed your ebay listing and got a link to the photo, posting an ad on GJ takes less than 1 minute if you can cut and paste adeptly!

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

Another thing. One poster asked about warranty. Sadly, for logistical reasons there is no warranty other than if the tool is defective out of the box I'll replace it (if I have another and refund your money if I don't.) With respect to my customer service check out my EBay feedback that should answer your questions in that regard. I'm an engineer not a salesman. I'm blunt and direct and at this late date that's not going to change.

TOPTUL of course does warranty their tools. The problem is that to return a tool to TOPTUL would cost ten times as much as the tool. There is a reason that such a superior tool manufacturer has no presence in the United States. Working with these guys from the other side of the world is brutal and returning something to Taiwan would cost ten times the cost of the tool in shipping. Bottom line: I'm not going to eat it myself.

If TOPTUL had an American presence all of this would be much easier. For example say one of you wants a particular TOPTUL tool set. Here is what I would have to do to get you that set. I would have to first Email TOPTUL to get a price, then I would have to probably buy ten of them. Then I would have to wait two to three months for the slow boat from Taiwan to show up before I could then send it to you. That's why this is never going to work as a real business. It didn't for others that tried and I'm no smarter than they were.

I brought these tools in from Taiwan for myself and my friends. If I have spares I'll sell them on EBay at a very attractive price. That's what's going on here.

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

PBCampbell, You are the voice of reason. Are you the only person here that understands this? You're comment is completely right. I didn't think I said anything to piss off anybody. I've got some tools, if you want them they're available on EBay. If you don't my life will go on just fine. What's offensive about any of this? I'm baffled.

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

SMKS, are you in sales and marketing as it seems to me that you must be. I'm a scientist, electronics engineer to be exact, and in my business we were expected to say specifically what we mean. If I know that I'm never going to import SAE wrenches why would I say what you stated as it's not true.

I'm not trying to build a customer base. I'm trying to sell some extremely nice tools of which I've got some spares and I'm doing it at a good price.

I'm telling it like it is and getting nailed to the cross for it. Why?

PBCampbell · Oct 14, 2014

People have a tendency to "read" into things stated in a simple manner in my opinion. Of course younger people are more use to "fluff" than gruff as well. It is what it is, you made the forum members here aware that you had some tools of a brand that has garnered some interest in the past, available for sale on a well known venue. I'm not grasping the difficulty some are having. If I came into a surplus through obtaining what I wanted and needed to dispense of them I would likely do the same as you're doing. If interest for those products maintained at a level that it was cost effective to continue I would likely continue as a "good will" effort, much as you stated you would likely do. I guess it's just difficult to judge reactions through a written medium. Best of luck to you though.

Bull · Oct 14, 2014

You've already admitted to being an engineer and not a salesman, and to being blunt.

So, while several of us might understand where you are coming from, we find your approach unfortunate.

Are engineers able to envision multiple ways to achieve an objective? If so, then you should be able to understand where we are coming from.

I have one Toptul ratchet, a 1/4 drive comfort handle flex head quick release ratchet. It is my favorite 1/4 ratchet. I'd readily buy others in different sizes and configurations.

wild cowboy · Oct 14, 2014

One of the problems you are gonna face is competition, for example, HF now has equal or better quality ratchets, also from Taiwan like Toptul, but with lifetime no questions asked warranty, and for comparison, the flex 3/8 long handle you have on ebay for $35 including shipping is no better than the Harbor Freight new flex ratchet shown here for $24.99 -25% coupon = $18.75 + tax, (I own both) so we are looking at roughly half the price with a lifetime warranty - that is hard to compete with!

dnschmidt · Oct 14, 2014

Wild Cowboy,

I completely agree. I myself bought three of the four new HF flex head ratchets and they are better in every way. That's why I'm trying to only bring in tools that DON'T compete with Harbor Freight like the interchangeable head torque wrench and the swivel T-handle wrenches. When I first saw the new HF ratchets I knew that that party was over.

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